Feedback on a cosmere magic system I’ve been creating

[bmcclure7]

For fun, I thought about trying to create a wheel of time, gender binary magic system in the cosmere. What I have so far is pretty complicated and so I’m breaking this into multiple posts any feedback is appreciated. 
 

First, how to access the power: I am actually stumped on this one. Access to power depends on the shard. I’m not sure which shard goes with this magic system. Any ideas?

 

female half of the magic system: I’ll discuss the Male half later. Also bond ability new abilities are unlocked by following connections across gender binary.   Again, this will be another post. 
 

 Base ability: each gender will get one base ability and four branch abilities. Think base ability as the one everyone has to learn before, they can’t unlock any other one. Typically someone trains the ability and eventually unlocks one branch ability. But occasionally, there are some geniuses or just workaholics that have 2 branches ability. 
 

Overall theme: for the female half of this magic system, I decided I wanted something biological and physically based . 
 

base ability: heal similar to regrow. Like all abilities on the female side, it can be used either on yourself someone else or both depending on what kind of training you have received. 
 

branch abilities.

enhance:  increases strength and speed,

empower: increases energy and immune system. 
 

Growth: can be used to speed up or manipulate the growth of the body Sometimes use in conjunction with Strengthen.  Can also be used on plants 
 

Strengthen: increases the hardness or durability of Pacific body parts. Want fingernails as strong as diamond, Or hair as strong as of metal Cord? Then this is the branch ability for you
 

 

Any thoughts or ideas so far? I’ll make another post later with the Male half of the system.

 

 

after getting fed

Edited May 18 by bmcclure7

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

hardness or durability of Pacific body parts

Did you mean "specific"?

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Base ability: each gender will get one base ability and four branch abilities. Think base ability as the one everyone has to learn before, they can’t unlock any other one. Typically someone trains the ability and eventually unlocks one branch ability. But occasionally, there are some geniuses or just workaholics that have 2 branches ability. 

This sounds very Selish - since it seems to require Initiation and Study. While many Selish Manifestations of Investiture rely on language (AonDor, Forgery) the influence and connection does not have to be a direct use of language (Dakhor, Hrovell Potions (unnamed), ChayShan). We still know nothing about the Third Continent/Empire (other than the teaser WoB that implies it's existence - see below)

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Overall theme: for the female half of this magic system, I decided I wanted something biological and physically based . 
 

base ability: heal similar to regrow.

Very stereotypical and tropey. Which is not necessarily a bad thing (as many Brandon Annotations discuss - you have to decide when to follow one trope to allow originality in another, or subversion in a third). Just keep in mind that if "all" healing is feminine restricted, you will likely warp the culture and society accordingly. Also, your branch abilities do not seem to follow known Cosmere Physics, as described so far, so be careful how you develop those and make sure the realmatics are consistent. (For example, Herdazians have "hard fingernails" because they are partially Carapace from their Singer heritage - and like Chull Carapace, they absorb trace amounts of Crem to harden to a stone-like density)

 

Selish WoB:

Spoiler

Quote

Nimrod Rappaport

In Arcanum Unbounded you mentioned that Sel is one of the biggest planets. You also mentioned that there are three empires on that planet. In Elantris 2 two will we get... You also mentioned that they are largely ignorant of each other, will we get a book in which those empires interact? Maybe in Elantris 2? 

Also, can you please specify on their nature and maybe some inspirations you got when writing and thinking about them?

Brandon Sanderson

So, sure. Sel wears its inspirations quite blatantly on its sleeve, right? It's not that obvious for instance in Stormlight that the Alethi are based off of Mongolians, because there's so much more in the mix there, that it's not quite as obvious. But in Sel, it's a little more obvious. You know, basically the idea came to me that what if the vikings had united behind a very hierarchical religion like Catholicism, and we had Catholic vikings, conquering the world. What would the world look like and that is where the entire religion came from.

Actually the truth is it's like, there was this priest, right, and one group became Buddhist and the other became Catholic vikings and, you know, Buddhist Renaissance... Italians is kind of where we got there and of course, the Rose Empire the inspirations are a little bit more Eastern and Middle Eastern. For instance, the Grands are based on Babylonian influences and I'm kind of looking at a lot of Babylonian, a little bit of Syrian. But of course Shai is very very clearly based on East Asian cultures and specifically China.

So, the empires and things like that... for there you might have noticed that we've got a Europe centered one, and an Asia/Eastern centered one, so you might be able to theorize where the third empire's inspirations might be or at least a list of possible candidates.

ICon 2019 (Oct. 17, 2019)

So far, most Sharders expect the third continent/empire to be either African or Central/South American inspired - with some thinking that Rithmatist's Aztec connections will make it more likely to be American (research already done) and some expecting African inspired because it's different and he has "already done Aztec."

 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Eh, it feels too much like you're just straight up copying the WoT Magic, not that I've really read the books. I'd recommend just making something more original since otherwise the inspiration will just overtake whatever you're trying to make.

For the basic idea, maybe instead focus on the Shard and World you want? Use that as a foundation to build the Magic System?

Coming up with original Magic Systems is a challenge, I've been thinking over a 'Plant Cyborg' one myself. Chloroborgs? I like the sound of that. Set on a planet that was Invested by a big Splinter of Invention. The world, Vathen, has a complex ecosystem focused on Grafting Invested plants into oneself, not just humans use this but also the local fauna and flora. Mass utilization of a Bond similar to a Luhel Bond if to a lesser extent than a proper Aether.

Having more Invested Plants (name pending) puts more of a physical toll on the person, the plants feeding on the nutrients of the host.

Though I am stuck on what exact powers are granted, ironic right?

[alder24]

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Base ability: each gender will get one base ability and four branch abilities. Think base ability as the one everyone has to learn before, they can’t unlock any other one. Typically someone trains the ability and eventually unlocks one branch ability. But occasionally, there are some geniuses or just workaholics that have 2 branches ability. 

If I understand you correctly, there are 5 powers in total, one main power and four secondary, but usually a "mage" usually can only access/learn only one secondary power, not all of them progressively? I do like this idea, I see a potential for it. Can they choose which branch to learn, or is this out of their control?

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Overall theme: for the female half of this magic system, I decided I wanted something biological and physically based . 

base ability: heal similar to regrow. Like all abilities on the female side, it can be used either on yourself someone else or both depending on what kind of training you have received. 

branch abilities.

enhance:  increases strength and speed,

empower: increases energy and immune system. 

Growth: can be used to speed up or manipulate the growth of the body Sometimes use in conjunction with Strengthen.  Can also be used on plants 

Strengthen: increases the hardness or durability of Pacific body parts. Want fingernails as strong as diamond, Or hair as strong as of metal Cord? Then this is the branch ability for you

As Treamayne said, this is a little bit stereotypical, classical but that's also a safe division - healing for women. There is nothing wrong with it, especially if done right but I see here a bit of wasted potential (if every woman starts with healing). Overall all of those powers seem to side with the Surge of Progression (with a bit of Tension as well). What if that's the main theme of female powers, where the main ability is focused on the general theme of Progression, each branch is a specialized Progression. I would make healing a secondary specialized branch and it would contrast the Strengthen branch nicely, which sounds like the Progression Fused and I would merged it with Growth as they seem very similar and compound well (I feel it would work better if you grew strong fingernails instead of just making them strong).

That can be a theme of branches. One power heals, Strengthen/Growth one modifies physically the body, the Enhance and Empower can be kind of merged together to make it a kind of spiritual change, like A-pewter - they don't change you physically, they spiritually boost your physical attributes. The last new one might be a pair to healing, or the opposite of healing, but still being of Progression. I can't think of anything now, just like I can't think of the main ability - maybe the main one could be that you can weakly do all what every branch has to offer, but you have to choose and learn only one of them - then the rest is sealed off or you still can do some weak stuff with other powers but they are far beneath if you chose that branch.

Don't take that as criticism, more like a brainstorming session from which you can draw new inspiration and change things if you want to.

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

First, how to access the power: I am actually stumped on this one. Access to power depends on the shard. I’m not sure which shard goes with this magic system. Any ideas?

As for this, the role of the Shard is tied with how the invested art is obtained, not what it does, so technically speaking you can choose whoever you want, as long as you created an adequate way of gaining those powers. Seeing how the powers are divided into genders and they themselves are divided into branches, it sounds a little like Autonomy to me.

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Eh, it feels too much like you're just straight up copying the WoT Magic, not that I've really read the books. I'd recommend just making something more original since otherwise the inspiration will just overtake whatever you're trying to make.

For the basic idea, maybe instead focus on the Shard and World you want? Use that as a foundation to build the Magic System?

Coming up with original Magic Systems is a challenge, I've been thinking over a 'Plant Cyborg' one myself. Chloroborgs? I like the sound of that. Set on a planet that was Invested by a big Splinter of Invention. The world, Vathen, has a complex ecosystem focused on Grafting Invested plants into oneself, not just humans use this but also the local fauna and flora. Mass utilization of a Bond similar to a Luhel Bond if to a lesser extent than a proper Aether.

Having more Invested Plants (name pending) puts more of a physical toll on the person, the plants feeding on the nutrients of the host.

Though I am stuck on what exact powers are granted, ironic right?

If it any helps when coming up with powers I wanted, I thought about what kind of theme I wanted for each. do you have a particular theme in your world building? not a specific power yet but like an idea of what you want to look like or feel. 
 

@Treamayne 

Can you tell me the particular point that you feel violates in cosmere rules

 

@alder24 my original thoughts was that healing would be sort of like a bring some one to a baseline like the first thing you learn is to bring yourself or someone else up to your base level. And then from there, you learn to try to push some aspect of them beyond that. 

Edited May 18 by bmcclure7

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

your branch abilities do not seem to follow known Cosmere Physics, as described so far

Can you tell me the particular point that you feel violates in cosmere rules

I mentioned an example in my previous post:

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

(For example, Herdazians have "hard fingernails" because they are partially Carapace from their Singer heritage - and like Chull Carapace, they absorb trace amounts of Crem to harden to a stone-like density)

So, in your list:

8 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Overall theme: for the female half of this magic system, I decided I wanted something biological and physically based . 

base ability: heal similar to regrow. Like all abilities on the female side, it can be used either on yourself someone else or both depending on what kind of training you have received. 

branch abilities.

enhance:  increases strength and speed,

empower: increases energy and immune system. 

Growth: can be used to speed up or manipulate the growth of the body Sometimes use in conjunction with Strengthen.  Can also be used on plants 

Strengthen: increases the hardness or durability of specific body parts. Want fingernails as strong as diamond, Or hair as strong as of metal Cord? Then this is the branch ability for you

You are not going to get "diamond fingernails" or "Metal Cord Hair" through a version of healing or regrowth. I wasn't so much pointing out "violates" as I was pointing out that the details beyond your one-line synopsis will need to conform. Example: "Strengthen" won't change a biollogic material like the fingernails, unless there is some version of changing density of the material, soulcasting the material, etc. It's okay to want that kind of effect, as long as you are grounding the "why" in realmatics.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

12 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

If it any helps when coming up with powers I wanted, I thought about what kind of theme I wanted for each. do you have a particular theme in your world building? not a specific power yet but like an idea of what you want to look like or feel. 
 

Well the main environment is a huge forest with trees that are taller than redwoods, they end up blocking out the sun on the forest floor. A big part of any lighting is from bioluminescence. So one of the Invested Plants (Chloro-somethings, I want Chloro as part of the name) grants bioluminescence.

One thing that is clear to me is that the powers granted can't be as potent or versatile as Allomancy or Surgebinding, since there's only Splinters in residence on Vathen, not a full Shard. 

The Initiation of Chloro is that you need the seeds of the Invested Plants, then implant them into yourself. They grow over time and become linked to your health, the healthier you are the better they work. Most have passive effects, like the Bioluminscene Chloro that provides light and even some heat.

Technically anyone can Graft a Chloro into themself but it's a permanent choice and you can't have too many. Also they're not too easy to find since they are usually surrounded by aggressive or predatory Fauna that use the Chloro.

I want a sort of Biopunk-lite feel to the magic, somewhat technological yet still somewhat primitive.

[bmcclure7]

5 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Well the main environment is a huge forest with trees that are taller than redwoods, they end up blocking out the sun on the forest floor. A big part of any lighting is from bioluminescence. So one of the Invested Plants (Chloro-somethings, I want Chloro as part of the name) grants bioluminescence.

One thing that is clear to me is that the powers granted can't be as potent or versatile as Allomancy or Surgebinding, since there's only Splinters in residence on Vathen, not a full Shard. 

The Initiation of Chloro is that you need the seeds of the Invested Plants, then implant them into yourself. They grow over time and become linked to your health, the healthier you are the better they work. Most have passive effects, like the Bioluminscene Chloro that provides light and even some heat.

Technically anyone can Graft a Chloro into themself but it's a permanent choice and you can't have too many. Also they're not too easy to find since they are usually surrounded by aggressive or predatory Fauna that use the Chloro.

I want a sort of Biopunk-lite feel to the magic, somewhat technological yet still somewhat primitive.

You should probably book up a problem they would have and how he can fix them. 

 

here are a few ideas

1. Something to make them walk up walls. Is there a large trees that were climbing them would be an asset for travel and. 
 

2. Maybe some sort of vine that could let you swing some tree. This would look cool and yes, it would also help with travel. 
 

3. Something that allows you to connect to or gathering information from trees. this might be a way further them to record history of important events, sort of like a primitive form of data storage. If you want to go for cyberpunk thing, maybe Keaton be like some sort of tree Internet.

 

4. something that allows you to drain nutrients from others. Since health is so important for the magic system something that allows you to take help from others would be a useful weapon. 

 

I hope these ideas hell at the very least they might get your brain thinking. 

 

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I mentioned an example in my previous post:

So, in your list:

You are not going to get "diamond fingernails" or "Metal Cord Hair" through a version of healing or regrowth. I wasn't so much pointing out "violates" as I was pointing out that the details beyond your one-line synopsis will need to conform. Example: "Strengthen" won't change a biollogic material like the fingernails, unless there is some version of changing density of the material, soulcasting the material, etc. It's okay to want that kind of effect, as long as you are grounding the "why" in realmatics.

Allow me to clarify nothing changes biologically by using strengthen Instead, it just reinforces, a portion of your body is durability with investiture. 

 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

9 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

You should probably book up a problem they would have and how he can fix them. 

That is a very good point, the main conflict I have outlined is that several Invested Plants are being corrupted by a foreign power, which is wreaking havoc on everything due to how interconnected the ecosystem is.

10 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

1. Something to make them walk up walls. Is there a large trees that were climbing them would be an asset for travel and. 
 

2. Maybe some sort of vine that could let you swing some tree. This would look cool and yes, it would also help with travel. 
 

3. Something that allows you to connect to or gathering information from trees. this might be a way further them to record history of important events, sort of like a primitive form of data storage. If you want to go for cyberpunk thing, maybe Keaton be like some sort of tree Internet.

 

4. something that allows you to drain nutrients from others. Since health is so important for the magic system something that allows you to take help from others would be a useful weapon. 

 

I hope these ideas hell at the very least they might get your brain thinking. 

Thank you very much, these have definitely got my brain thinking. Physical, Cognitive and maybe even some Spiritual stuff, I'll need to think more about what a 'Plant Cyborg' looks to me.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Allow me to clarify nothing changes biologically by using strengthen Instead, it just reinforces, a portion of your body is durability with investiture. 

That's my point. Nothing in the Cosmere is "durable only due to investiture." There is always some process, fueled by investiture, that causes the change. There is a possible tangential exception of "Investiture resists investiture" - but then the durability is not a physical trait of the object - the object's Cognitive and/or Spiritual traits (invested) are resisting damage from an Invested Source (shards, nightblood, etc) that would otherwise damage more than just the physical realm.

A-Pewter might be closest to what you are describing (raw investiture adding resiliency, increased healing, and increased physical attributes), but then A-Pewter cannot get to "diamond Fingernails and metal hair" levels of resiliency either (and there is a process, as Pewter Pushes on your physical attributes). In fact, the resiliency added was so slight, all that A-Pewter did was to dampen many blows from bone-shattering, to bone-cracking-with-massive-bruises. 

[alder24]

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Allow me to clarify nothing changes biologically by using strengthen Instead, it just reinforces, a portion of your body is durability with investiture. 

58 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

That's my point. Nothing in the Cosmere is "durable only due to investiture." There is always some process, fueled by investiture, that causes the change. There is a possible tangential exception of "Investiture resists investiture" - but then the durability is not a physical trait of the object - the object's Cognitive and/or Spiritual traits (invested) are resisting damage from an Invested Source (shards, nightblood, etc) that would otherwise damage more than just the physical realm.

A-Pewter might be closest to what you are describing (raw investiture adding resiliency, increased healing, and increased physical attributes), but then A-Pewter cannot get to "diamond Fingernails and metal hair" levels of resiliency either (and there is a process, as Pewter Pushes on your physical attributes). In fact, the resiliency added was so slight, all that A-Pewter did was to dampen many blows from bone-shattering, to bone-cracking-with-massive-bruises. 

I see no problem with that at all. Forgery exists, this seems to work like Forgery - temporarily changing the material into something else, as long as investiture is given to it to fight the material's push to be brought back to normal. You can 100% change your fingernails into diamonds in Cosmere without needing to eat diamonds in the first place. 

[bmcclure7]

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

That's my point. Nothing in the Cosmere is "durable only due to investiture." There is always some process, fueled by investiture, that causes the change. There is a possible tangential exception of "Investiture resists investiture" - but then the durability is not a physical trait of the object - the object's Cognitive and/or Spiritual traits (invested) are resisting damage from an Invested Source (shards, nightblood, etc) that would otherwise damage more than just the physical realm.

A-Pewter might be closest to what you are describing (raw investiture adding resiliency, increased healing, and increased physical attributes), but then A-Pewter cannot get to "diamond Fingernails and metal hair" levels of resiliency either (and there is a process, as Pewter Pushes on your physical attributes). In fact, the resiliency added was so slight, all that A-Pewter did was to dampen many blows from bone-shattering, to bone-cracking-with-massive-bruises. 

I see still I never noticed that. Still the fact A pewter exists proves that it is possible. And we have seen similar attributes enchanted by investiture in ferochemy as well.  Perhaps it just a matter of amount of investiture or just that most magic systems don’t have a path to do this.  
 

I think I can get around by concentrating the investiture into a more limited area than a pewter. After all a pewter enhance the hole body where as where as this only does a part of the body, and P pewter effect many aspects of the body where as this only effect one trait of the body. Do you think these two combined could get around the power cost issue?
 

 

[Treamayne]

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

You can 100% change your fingernails into diamonds in Cosmere without needing to eat diamonds in the first place. 

No, you can't. Forgery could not accomplish this (nor ReSealing, nor Bloodsealing). AonDor and Soulcasting maybe - but I doubt the person would survive being partially soulcast even if the Radiant or Elantrian could make a partial change work. TES Day 3:

Spoiler

She continued working.

“I cannot trust in manacles to hold you,” Gaotona said softly, “as we are required to give you soulstone so that you can work on our … problem. You would turn your manacles to soap, then escape in the night laughing.”

That statement, of course, betrayed a complete lack of understanding in how Forgery worked. A Forgery had to be likely—believable—otherwise it wouldn’t take. Who would make a chain out of soap? It would be ridiculous.

Maybe in Era 4 Cyberpunk Space Opera, it could be plausible for somebody to have undergone surgical implantation of diamond-hard fingernails. Before then, the closest known similar example is the one I mentioned above, where Herdazian's fingernails are like carapace and strengthened with crem to be like stone (which is still far short of diamond). 

 

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

I see. Still, I never noticed that. The fact A-pewter exists proves that it is possible. We have seen similar attributes enchanted by investiture in Feruchemy as well. Perhaps it just a matter of amount of investiture? Or just that most manifestations of investiture don’t have a path to accomplish this effect.  
 

I think I can get around [noun unknown] by concentrating the investiture into a more limited area than A-Pewter. After all A-Pewter enhances the whole body, whereas  this will only affect part of the body. Pewter affects many aspects of the body,  whereas this will only effect one trait of the body.

I attempted to interpret your post (edited above), so please let me know if I have mis-interpreted anything.

A-Pewter still requires a  a method. In this case it is pushing on your body. Feruchemy is also a controlled methodology, where storing allows you to convert attributes to Investiture to store them, then re-convert them when you tap them. It is still not "just raw investiture makes me buff." 

That said, it's your fan-work so please follow whatever plan you want, I just tried to provide feedback because you asked for feedback.

Quote

Do you think these two combined could get around the power cost issue?

It's not a power cost issue, it's a methodology issue. All I was trying to say (at risk of quoting myself):

On 5/18/2024 at 2:15 PM, Treamayne said:

"Strengthen" won't change a biollogic material like the fingernails, unless there is some version of changing density of the material, soulcasting the material, etc. It's okay to want that kind of effect, as long as you are grounding the "why" in realmatics.

There is no currently know realmatics version where "investiture = diamond hard biologic material" (pending more info on Tension and Cohesion); But there are plenty of "Investiture powers this process that results in that effect." I was merely recommending you reconcile the process on why  the power you want is creating the effect you want. 

[alder24]

45 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

No, you can't. Forgery could not accomplish this (nor ReSealing, nor Bloodsealing). AonDor and Soulcasting maybe - but I doubt the person would survive being partially soulcast even if the Radiant or Elantrian could make a partial change work. TES Day 3:

While we currently don't know any invested art that allows you to do what was proposed, all necessary components were already introduced in a few of them. Soulcasting and Hemalurgy allows you to change the soul itself, Forgery allows you to make a fake soul, Feruchemy temporarily changes your attributes. As long as you push investiture into the system, it will oppose your soul's attempts of snapping back to normal. I see no reason why there can't be an invested art that allows you to turn your fingernails into diamond or hair into metal - a purely physical change, there is no need to involve change of your spirit web. Cosmere already deals with things like that. 

Spoiler

Doom-Slayer

So how do the exact mechanics of Feruchemy in relation to Compounding work?

This confusion is primarily around how [the Lord Ruler] gets his near infinite age.

Okay. So first off, I understand the concept of how they work. Feruchemy is net zero, Allomancy is net positive, combine them and you end with a net positive Feruchemy ability.

So how Feruchemy normally works... you take say weight, store half your normal weight and then you can access it whenever you want. So you (originally X weight) are taking A weight, storing it, and then you are at (X-A) weight, with access to A. So we have a metalmind that store magnitude with the efficiency of how its received based on how quickly or slowly it is drawn upon.

All the metalminds except atium seem to act this way. Atium seems to work as storing magnitude/time rather than just magnitude. The way I understand it is that say a 30 year old person becomes 50 years old for 1 day, this would give access to 20 years difference for a 1 day period.

The Lord Ruler then exploits this by gaining access to say 20 years difference over 10 days (magnification by Compounding) which he then slowly feeds into himself to lower his age.

Why this difference? I'm assuming its to maintain a neutral "body age" because with just magnitude a person could permanently make themselves younger by Compounding.

With just magnitude of "20 years of youth" being stored, if the Lord Ruler magnified it, he could turn it into "200 years of youth" and then he would never need the constant stream off youth (and wouldn't have died without the bracelets)

Hope this makes sense.

Brandon Sanderson

All right, so there are a few things you have to understand about cosmere magics to grok all of this.

First, is that magics can be hacked together. You'll see more of this in the future of the cosmere, but an early one is the hack here--where you're essentially powering Feruchemy with Allomancy. (A little more complex than that, but it seems like you get the idea.)

The piece you're missing is the nature of a person's Spiritual aspect. This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw Investiture. The soul, you might say.

(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their Cognitive aspect as well, and the Cognitive aspect can interfere with the Spiritual aspect trying to make the Physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your Physical self with your Spiritual self--making the Physical regrow. More powerful forms of Investiture can repair the soul as well.

However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what Investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true.

So the Spiritual aspect will push for a restoration to the way you should be. With this Compounding hack, you're not changing connection; it's a purely Physical Realm change.

This dichotomy cannot remain for long. And the greater the disparity, the more pressure the spirit will exert. Ten or twenty years won't matter much. A thousand will matter a lot. So the only way to use Compounding to change your age is to store up all this extra youth in a metalmind, then be constantly tapping it to counteract the soul's attempt to restore you to how you should be.

Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing Connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult.

Though this is the point where I ping [Peter Ahlstrom] and get him to double-check all this. Once in a while, my fingers still type the wrong term in places. (See silvereye vs tineye.)

General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 20, 2015)

Edited May 19 by alder24

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I see no reason why there can't be an invested art that allows

I was not saying an invested art could not get there, I was saying that the OP needs to define why and how, because "just pumping a ton of investiture into the body" is not enough without a Manifestation of Investiture to define what the effect will be. 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

turn your fingernails into diamond or hair into metal - a purely physical change

How can that possibly be a purely physical change? Can you name any Biologic being (Cosmere or IRL) that has diamonds as a biologic component of their body? A biologic entity with hair made of metal? Again, I am not saying the result is impossible, I am saying that the OP asked for feedback, and my feedback was "you need to define why and how you think this works - because based on current Cosmere canon, just pumping a ton of investiture into your hair or nails will not be enough to make this effect."

Even known applications of healing would not generate this effect. 

[TheSurvivorofDeath]

So, this magic system is interesting. Does it necessarily fit the Cosmere, no. But is it interesting, yes. I would suggest that either the basic speed and strength enhancement idea or the energy increase idea should be the base ability not a branch ability, particularly if you’re trying to make it fit the Cosmere, as those are qualities that come more naturally just from being invested, while all existing regrowth and physical change abilities require practice. I would also like to point out that it would be possible to either have investiture simply strengthen things, by fueling a chemical and molecular change, although I actually see that as more difficult than, through a mechanic of the magic system, converting the matter of the body part into investiture and then converting that investiture into a metal or gemstone, the two solid manifestations of investiture in the cosmere. Though that would still be complex and difficult. Also, crystal and metal are both biological elements in the cosmere, even though that’s not even required for this to work. Singers have a natural crystal growth, their gemhearts, and dragons produce a biological metal. Just saying. 

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I was not saying an invested art could not get there, I was saying that the OP needs to define why and how, because "just pumping a ton of investiture into the body" is not enough without a Manifestation of Investiture to define what the effect will be. 

That's what this topic is about, it's about a fan made invested art, so it's not pumping investiture into the body, it's doing something to the body. And while I agree that it's good to ask for specifics and mechanics of how it works, I can see that this idea isn't violating any rules of Cosmere and there are several other invested arts that do similar stuff. I don't want to sound mean towards you or anything, I personally am of the opinion that in this case it's enough if the end effect is in line with rules and how it works mechanically isn't important that much right now as you can get the same effect by using a different powers present in Cosmere.

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

How can that possibly be a purely physical change? Can you name any Biologic being (Cosmere or IRL) that has diamonds as a biologic component of their body? A biologic entity with hair made of metal? Again, I am not saying the result is impossible, I am saying that the OP asked for feedback, and my feedback was "you need to define why and how you think this works - because based on current Cosmere canon, just pumping a ton of investiture into your hair or nails will not be enough to make this effect."

Even known applications of healing would not generate this effect. 

It's a magic thing. Just like Rashek's ageshifting, this is also a purely physical change. Can you name a biological being that can change their age at will? No. Is air made out of stone to allow it to be soulcast into stone? No. That's not the point. I think you're asking for too much realism forgetting it's a fantasy magic system. The point is that magic is forcing a change in the PR, while the CR and SR are untouched. Rashek changing his age is only changing his body to be 20 yo, his spirit web is still 1000 yo, just like his mind and perception of himself. In the same way changing fingernails into a diamond can be just a physical change, pushing your body against what's in your soul as long as you supply it with investiture. It doesn't matter if diamonds are a part of your body, investiture will manifest or Soulcast diamonds at demand. 

A human can walk into a highstorm and with right perception and just the ability to heal he can walk out as a Singer, with carapace, gemstones hearing Rhythms. Temporarily changing your body parts into some other material isn't that different, it just involves Soulcasting, which is a manifestation of a fundamental force of Cosmere. It's not about biology anymore, it's about magic and magic in Cosmere does stuff like was proposed. Your comparison to Herdazians can't be applied here as they are the result of biological evolution, this is purely a magical change. 

Spoiler

learhpa

Given that Stormlight healing matches to mental self-image (as shown by both the Lopen and by the Reshi monarch), could a really powerful hypnotist change someone's self-image in a way that would affect Stormlight healing? Could a powerful hypnotist use Stormlight healing to change a human into a listener?

Brandon Sanderson

Theoretically possible...to an extent. There is a limit to this, but the limitation is the amount of Investiture you have and access to Stormlight—or you know, Voidlight—can evidence this. Transformations that are happening in the storm to the listener forms are involved in this. That could theoretically happen to a human as well. But you would basically—what most likely would happen is it would have to involve a specific set of circumstances and then entering the storm, and then exiting as a listener—that could happen. You guys ask some farfetched things—that one's not so farfetched. It does require some specificity, but it could happen.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

13 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Can you name any Biologic being (Cosmere or IRL) that has diamonds as a biologic component of their body? A biologic entity with hair made of metal?

Rosharan native species with diamond gemhearts, dragons with Dragonsteel in their bodies...

If I wanted to be nitpicky I would point out that carbon is the main ingredient of your body, making up around 20% of your mass. Well, I’m pointing this out so I’m nitpicky. Diamond is just carbon with a crystal structure. Metal is also a part of your body - hemoglobin contains iron and there are also many other metals present in your body. With that in mind Soulcasting isn't even needed, magic just has to rearrange the structure of atoms already present in your body to make diamond fingernails or metal hair. And just like in Feruchemy, the investiture will keep you alive and prevent any negative effects of this sudden but temporary rearrangement of atoms. As I said, there are several ways of achieving what was proposed, this is just one of them. 

That's how I see it. If the end effect is in line with what we see in Cosmere, then I have no problems with that, nor do I need a detailed explanation of how it works (for that it's better to wait until the entire system is figured out), as there are several ways to achieve that effect. You don't even have to physically turn things into diamond or fingernails, just by using Tension you can make your fingernails as hard as diamond and get the same effect. It doesn't really matter to me.

[Quantus he/him]

Others are churning on what the magic could potentially Do, so I want to talk a it about the OP's first Question: How do these users Access the Magic?  At minimum they'll need a method for Acquiring the Investiture and one for Shaping the Investiture (which your Base&branch system is addressing).  If we are assuming a Cosmere world with a resident shard, but not one of the known ones, that leaves fewer shards but few actual restrictions. 

For access: the easiest way is to make it sDNA genetic the way Allomancy, Feruchemy, and being born with a Breath are.  The other most common method is the Shardworld having a naturally available Source of Investiture that is usually paired with some Storage method (Highstorm with Gems, a Magic Sun with White Sand, The Dor surrounding the planet in the Cognitive Realm, etc).  The Genetic option will imply that the Shard created the population in question though, as is implied to have happened on Nalthis and Scadrial.  Or it could always be entirely random if we are talking about Whimsy.  

For shaping it: Genetic predisposition is an option, like with Allomancy or Feruchemy.  Nahel or Luhel Bonds are options.  Anything that can be interpreted as Imposing Intent on the process would probably work, really.  Id say the Gender dichotomy lends itself to sDNA genetic, or maybe to a Bond (Nahel or Luhel) to something that is gender-picky.  For example, a Nahel Bond with a Splinter spren could lend itself to a progression of Base and Branch Powers based on some narrative Milestones akin to the Radiant Oaths.  Or maybe you have to grow some new physical feature (like a literal plant bud or seed or evolving tattoo) to unlock the abilities through chronic use, and you say the progression is from a Savant-esk Warping of your spiritweb. But the method of Shaping will entirely depend on the form of Investiture in question.  

Just as a potential plot hook, it could be interesting for the male and Female mages to come in Pairs, perhaps going so far as to say their shared Bond is what unlocks their powers.  That would give a lot of potential for interpersonal conflict, as well as potential for overpowered collaboration Spells, and even a nonbinary Chosen One character that breaks the standard rules.  

Also, if the Female half focuses on Biological process, Healing, and physical effects, are you thinking that would cast the Male as less Biological and more Energy magic (fire & lightning & based energy types, etc) or would they be more Mental Effects over Physical, so like Memory Storage, Emotional detection and/or manipulation, maybe precognitive powers?

 

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

That's how I see it. If the end effect is in line with what we see in Cosmere, then I have no problems with that, nor do I need a detailed explanation of how it works (for that it's better to wait until the entire system is figured out), as there are several ways to achieve that effect. You don't even have to physically turn things into diamond or fingernails, just by using Tension you can make your fingernails as hard as diamond and get the same effect. It doesn't really matter to me.

Agreed, there sure seem to be several different effects that are known to change the physical Properties or a substance/object without requiring a mundane physical process to explain it (Biochroma color change seems to be the exception rather than the rule in that regard).  The example that comes to mind for me (aside from the Obvious Tension Surge) is the weird way Feruchemcy will protect a Ferring from the effects of carrying unnatural Weight without actually changing their Strength, Durability, or their biological makeup.