Why the dawnshards exist on Roshar and How Ishar destroyed Ashyn. Spiritual Attribute Dawnshard theory.(Prologue Spoilers)

[KaladinWorldsinger]

Tldr: Tanavast and Koravari were Dawnshard holders. The four dawnshards are based on the four spiritual attributes. Ishar held a Dawnshard, and used it to create Anti-light and destroy Ashyn.

 

So I have always wondered why the Stormlight Archive is the world where we have seen the effects of Multiple dawnshards, instead of sprinkling them around the rest of the Cosmere.

We have the Change Dawnshard that Rysn found in Aimia, home of soulcasting.

We have a Dawnshard that can "bind" anything Voidish and Mortal

And we have Hoid,(The Sunlit Man spoilers)

Spoiler

Whose Dawnshard is going to play some role in the Back half with Sigzil.

Why? 

I think it's because the Dawnshards are inherently connected to Roshar.

I think Honor and Cultivation were Dawnshard holders, who gave those up to accept a shard. Let me Explain

Something I think everyone gets wrong is that The Change Dawnshard isn't about any change. It is specifically Positive Change

Spoiler

The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change.

 

And this makes sense. These are commands from Adonalsium, who is very similar to the Abrahamic God. The commands will be benevolent.

And what is Cultivation about if not transformation? Positive Change? Growth, nurturing, cutting away the the bad to make space for the good?

Very suspicious that these two ideas are so damn similar, right? But it's not  a coincidence.

Koravari got the shard of Cultivation, because  it was suited to the Dawnshard she used during the shattering, the (Positive) Change Dawnshard.

Since you can't hold both a shard and a Dawnshard (dawnshards supercharge magic already), she dropped hers on Roshar.

Let's also notice that Aimia is the home of soulcasters and that remaking is all about "Identity"

And i think her lover, Tanavast was in the same situation.

We know that Ishar used a Dawnshard to destroy Ashyn accidentally. We know he was a bondsmith before Roshar

Spoiler

Your abilities -existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded.A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world

But Ishar got an honorblade on Roshar? So how was he a Bondsmith?

 

Well we know the quote " Dawnshard that can "bind" anything Voidish and Mortal". But that doesn't seem to be the "change" Dawnshard. That is more connected to soulcasting.

 

It also makes more sense to me that Ishar's abilities are connected to the Dawnshard he was already experimenting with.

 

What if the Dawnshard had powers related to Connection? Something like " Bind" or "Touch" or "Connect"?

 

The Bondsmith becomes the title of someone who has held this Dawnshard of Connection. Ishar held a Dawnshard on Ashyn.

 

And how did it get on Ashyn? Well is it any coincidence that Honor just happens to be about bonds, connection and oaths?

 

Tanavast's shard is very similar to the Dawnshard he used for the shattering. After getting his shard, he dropped his Dawnshard on Ashyn instead of Roshar probably for equality between the two planets.

 

They dropped them in the rosharan system so that they could keep an eye on these powerful weapons.

 

Remember Hoid was going to get a shard, but he declined. Tanavast and Koravari could easily have been dawnshards.

 

Which sadly means that making a 4×4 model of Dawnshard and shard intents probably won't work out. Tanavast and Koravari match up too perfectly. 

 

Let's talk about Hoid's Dawnshard. He made an oath to "be where he was needed to be". He uses Fortune for that effect. What if this ability was connected to his Dawnshard? We know it can give you the ability to-(TSM spoilers)

Spoiler

skip without knowing where you are going. Very fortune like

I can guess what the single word command could be- "Be". If you had access to immense ammount of fortune, you would be living exactly how your life is meant to go, you would be truly alive with no uncertainty or anxiety, following your god- given sense of intuition. Having fortune will help you live your life to the fullest. You could have the surest identity, have the best friends, have magic but still have bad luck. However, if you have fortune, you are on a god given destiny, which

If the command is "Be", it could be the reason why Hoid can't eat meat. Living your own life to the fullest might be beneficial to everybody living their life well. This Dawnshard is about Life itself. That's why it hates violence

So now we have a Dawnshard of Connection, of Fortune, and of Identity ( because change is about Identity)( What is Positive Change if not Finding your true identity?). These are all spiritual attributes. That is what I think Dawnshards are. The creation of the Spiritual Realm to cognitive to physical.

The last Dawnshard then would be about "Investiture". The command word could just be "invest". This would be the command that lets magic be real in the cosmere. The other three technically could exist in the real world, if the spiritual realm exists in our world. The fourth Dawnshard is the one that makes the cosmere special.

But how can you use Connection to destroy a Planet?

One word answer- "Anti-Light"

Quote

So she closed her eyes and tried to hum. She tried to find Stormlight’s
tone, pure and vibrant. But she faltered. Navani couldn’t hear that tone, not right now. Not with everything falling apart, not with her life seeping away. She found herself humming a different tone instead. The one Raboniel had always given her, with its chaotic rhythm. Yes, this close to death, Navani could only hear that. His tone. Eager to claim her.
The Sibling whimpered.
And Navani inverted the tone.
All it took was Intent. Odium gave her the song, but she twisted it back upon him. She hummed the song of anti-Voidlight, her hand pressed to the pillar.

Navani can't connect to Honor right now, so she chooses to connect to Odium and use it against Odium. That is what anti void light is. Voidlight used to destroy voidlight. Odium against Odium.

Later...

Quote

Then, a pure song. Rising up from within her. Orderly, powerful. Had she done harm without realizing it? Possibly. Had she made mistakes? Certainly. But she’d been trying to help. That was her journey. A journey to discover, learn, and make the world better. Honor’s song welled up inside her, and she sang it.

It takes connection to shard to create its anti light. This is how ishar destroyed Ashyn. Using his connection based powers, he created Anti light.

Remember that Kalak is not surprised to see Anti-Light in the prologue. He even knows that it can be used to destroy the Fused. How, if it is a new invention?

It isn't, Ishar already used it one and destroyed a planet before Kalak already.

[Argenti]

 

 

47 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Remember that Kalak is not surprised to see Anti-Light in the prologue. He even knows that it can be used to destroy the Fused. How, if it is a new invention?

 

Well, he worked with gavilar for a while. And he is clearly a scholar; he knows the mechanics behind Jesrin's death. The Investiture- anti-investiture reaction is pretty self explanatory. 
I'm not convinced Ishar used anti-light. It seems like their would be easier ways to destroy a planet. 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

29 minutes ago, Argenti said:

 

 

Well, he worked with gavilar for a while. And he is clearly a scholar; he knows the mechanics behind Jesrin's death. The Investiture- anti-investiture reaction is pretty self explanatory. 
I'm not convinced Ishar used anti-light. It seems like their would be easier ways to destroy a planet. 

I imagine it would be easy to destroy a planet  with a Dawnshard.

 Anti light was introduced as a weopen to kill gods. Then Raboniel says that's how Honor died. Which makes no sense because nothing can make enough of it to kill a shard. It's a very wieed lie that feels like Raboniel is making unintended foreshadowing.

 

the one thing we know that can kill a god? A Dawnshard.

[Treach]

4 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Tldr: Tanavast and Koravari were Dawnshard holders. The four dawnshards are based on the four spiritual attributes. Ishar held a Dawnshard, and used it to create Anti-light and destroy Ashyn.

 

So I have always wondered why the Stormlight Archive is the world where we have seen the effects of Multiple dawnshards, instead of sprinkling them around the rest of the Cosmere.

We have the Change Dawnshard that Rysn found in Aimia, home of soulcasting.

We have a Dawnshard that can "bind" anything Voidish and Mortal

And we have Hoid,(The Sunlit Man spoilers)

  Hide contents

Whose Dawnshard is going to play some role in the Back half with Sigzil.

Why? 

I think it's because the Dawnshards are inherently connected to Roshar.

I think Honor and Cultivation were Dawnshard holders, who gave those up to accept a shard. Let me Explain

Something I think everyone gets wrong is that The Change Dawnshard isn't about any change. It is specifically Positive Change

  Hide contents

The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change.

 

And this makes sense. These are commands from Adonalsium, who is very similar to the Abrahamic God. The commands will be benevolent.

And what is Cultivation about if not transformation? Positive Change? Growth, nurturing, cutting away the the bad to make space for the good?

Very suspicious that these two ideas are so damn similar, right? But it's not  a coincidence.

Koravari got the shard of Cultivation, because  it was suited to the Dawnshard she used during the shattering, the (Positive) Change Dawnshard.

Since you can't hold both a shard and a Dawnshard (dawnshards supercharge magic already), she dropped hers on Roshar.

Let's also notice that Aimia is the home of soulcasters and that remaking is all about "Identity"

And i think her lover, Tanavast was in the same situation.

We know that Ishar used a Dawnshard to destroy Ashyn accidentally. We know he was a bondsmith before Roshar

  Hide contents

Your abilities -existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded.A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world

But Ishar got an honorblade on Roshar? So how was he a Bondsmith?

 

Well we know the quote " Dawnshard that can "bind" anything Voidish and Mortal". But that doesn't seem to be the "change" Dawnshard. That is more connected to soulcasting.

 

It also makes more sense to me that Ishar's abilities are connected to the Dawnshard he was already experimenting with.

 

What if the Dawnshard had powers related to Connection? Something like " Bind" or "Touch" or "Connect"?

 

The Bondsmith becomes the title of someone who has held this Dawnshard of Connection. Ishar held a Dawnshard on Ashyn.

 

And how did it get on Ashyn? Well is it any coincidence that Honor just happens to be about bonds, connection and oaths?

 

Tanavast's shard is very similar to the Dawnshard he used for the shattering. After getting his shard, he dropped his Dawnshard on Ashyn instead of Roshar probably for equality between the two planets.

 

They dropped them in the rosharan system so that they could keep an eye on these powerful weapons.

 

Remember Hoid was going to get a shard, but he declined. Tanavast and Koravari could easily have been dawnshards.

 

Which sadly means that making a 4×4 model of Dawnshard and shard intents probably won't work out. Tanavast and Koravari match up too perfectly. 

 

Let's talk about Hoid's Dawnshard. He made an oath to "be where he was needed to be". He uses Fortune for that effect. What if this ability was connected to his Dawnshard? We know it can give you the ability to-(TSM spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

skip without knowing where you are going. Very fortune like

I can guess what the single word command could be- "Be". If you had access to immense ammount of fortune, you would be living exactly how your life is meant to go, you would be truly alive with no uncertainty or anxiety, following your god- given sense of intuition. Having fortune will help you live your life to the fullest. You could have the surest identity, have the best friends, have magic but still have bad luck. However, if you have fortune, you are on a god given destiny, which

If the command is "Be", it could be the reason why Hoid can't eat meat. Living your own life to the fullest might be beneficial to everybody living their life well. This Dawnshard is about Life itself. That's why it hates violence

So now we have a Dawnshard of Connection, of Fortune, and of Identity ( because change is about Identity)( What is Positive Change if not Finding your true identity?). These are all spiritual attributes. That is what I think Dawnshards are. The creation of the Spiritual Realm to cognitive to physical.

The last Dawnshard then would be about "Investiture". The command word could just be "invest". This would be the command that lets magic be real in the cosmere. The other three technically could exist in the real world, if the spiritual realm exists in our world. The fourth Dawnshard is the one that makes the cosmere special.

But how can you use Connection to destroy a Planet?

One word answer- "Anti-Light"

Navani can't connect to Honor right now, so she chooses to connect to Odium and use it against Odium. That is what anti void light is. Voidlight used to destroy voidlight. Odium against Odium.

Later...

It takes connection to shard to create its anti light. This is how ishar destroyed Ashyn. Using his connection based powers, he created Anti light.

Remember that Kalak is not surprised to see Anti-Light in the prologue. He even knows that it can be used to destroy the Fused. How, if it is a new invention?

It isn't, Ishar already used it one and destroyed a planet before Kalak already.

Spoilers for Dragonsteel Prime

Spoiler

Hoid's is the "Growth" Dawnshard.

 

[bmcclure7]

30 minutes ago, Treach said:

Spoilers for Dragonsteel Prime

  Reveal hidden contents

Hoid's is the "Growth" Dawnshard.

 

interesting I wonder if that has been changed because it sounds like it’s describing the change dawnshard

[KaladinWorldsinger]

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

interesting I wonder if that has been changed because it sounds like it’s describing the change dawnshard

Almost definitely 

[alder24]

On 5/3/2024 at 4:04 PM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

We know that Ishar used a Dawnshard to destroy Ashyn accidentally. We know he was a bondsmith before Roshar

  Hide contents

Your abilities -existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded.A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world

But Ishar got an honorblade on Roshar? So how was he a Bondsmith?

The power of Bondsmithing exists without the Order of Bondsmiths and Rosharan Surges. Any type of illusion based magic is called Lightweaving, any type of Connection manipulation magic can be called Bondsmithing. He was a Bondsmith, but not Rosharan Bondsmith.

Spoiler

Questioner

Could you use AonDor to manipulate Connection? If so, would a real AonDor smarty be able to do something similar to a Bondsmith?

Brandon Sanderson

The short answer to your question is: yes. Let me give some explanation.

Even when you are seeings some things happening in Elantris itself, you are seeing them manipulate Connection. It is mostly reinforcing Connection, but it is, in a way, manipulation. Rewriting Connection, rewriting Identity are both things that they can do. So with enough power, with enough smartiness, what a Bondsmith can do can be done.

In fact, we have seen short-range Elsecalling done by… Obviously Elsecalling’s not Bondsmithing, but you know that a Bondsmith powered a big Elsecalling [to migrate from Ashyn], one of the big things you’ve seen a Bondsmith do is get people between planets. And you have seen people use AonDor to Elsecall. You’ve seen them Lightweave, you’ve seen them do a lot of these things. They also could do some of this same stuff.

Basically, rule of thumb is: almost anything in the cosmere that is possible can be replicated with AonDor with the right program. But you may need an injection of Investiture in certain ways.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

 

Spoiler

Argent

In the Syl interlude in Rhythm of War, she is speaking with Dalinar about his powers and the things those powers have done in the past. And what she says is "a Bondsmith bound other Surges". First of all, what other Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

One potential interpretation for you on this, remember they use Surge and spren sometimes interchangeably in-world. Just making you aware of that.

Argent

Yeah I'm aware of that. Bound other Surges....

Brandon Sanderson

That might be what she's talking about. I'm not guaranteeing it.

Argent

Then the term Bondsmith. To me it seems like she's talking about Ishar and the Ashyn stuff. So would they use Bondsmith to describe him in that place?

Argent

And that would be maybe the power of Connection, the way Lightweaving is the power of illusion?

Brandon Sanderson

So one other thing to keep aware of in the cosmere - for instance they call "Lightweaving" any illusion-based magic working on the same fundamentals. And so you could argue - and people will use it that way in-world - that Bondsmithing is both an order [of Knights Radiant] and a power that exists outside the order.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And for instance, there were not Elsecallers to get people between Ashyn and Roshar, but on Roshar they would explain what happened there as Elsecalling. Does that make sense?

Argent

I mean, as much as these things make sense, yes.

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

On 5/3/2024 at 4:04 PM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

It also makes more sense to me that Ishar's abilities are connected to the Dawnshard he was already experimenting with.

What if the Dawnshard had powers related to Connection? Something like " Bind" or "Touch" or "Connect"?

The Bondsmith becomes the title of someone who has held this Dawnshard of Connection. Ishar held a Dawnshard on Ashyn.

Yes, it seems fitting that Ishar was the Dawnshard that binds, but here is an important note - being a Dawnshard alone isn't enough. Dawnshard is just a Command, a powerful Command but that's it. You need a power, you need Surgebinding to be able to use a Dawnshard to its fullest potential. Ishar had to have another power to use his Dawnshard to destroy Ashyn - Bondsmithing.

On 5/3/2024 at 4:04 PM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

But how can you use Connection to destroy a Planet?

One word answer- "Anti-Light"

Anti-light wasn't discovered until Navani made it. The easiest way to destroy a planet, to burn it as it happened with Ashyn, is to Connect its surface to the sun's surface. Easy. Of course there are many other ways to burn an entire planet, like atmospheric ignition (while impossible to happen naturally, wielding the power of gods you might be able to set it on fire).

On 5/3/2024 at 4:04 PM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Remember that Kalak is not surprised to see Anti-Light in the prologue. He even knows that it can be used to destroy the Fused. How, if it is a new invention?

It isn't, Ishar already used it one and destroyed a planet before Kalak already.

 He was surprised. Kalak is knowledgeable and Cosmere aware. He knows a lot of things about investiture, Connection and Identity. Scientists of Cosmere long theorized that anti-Investiture existed, I see no reason why Kalak, who had far more time than any other Scientist in Cosmere to explore this concept, couldn't have expected that anti-Investiture is possible to make. But he still was surprised by the success. KoWT Prologue:

Quote

Gavilar smiled. “It is set into motion. All of it.” He looked to Restares. “The project was a success.”

The man perked up. “It...it did? Is that...” He looked to his friend. “This could work, Nale! We could bring them back, then destroy them. It could work.”

 

23 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Anti light was introduced as a weopen to kill gods. Then Raboniel says that's how Honor died. Which makes no sense because nothing can make enough of it to kill a shard. It's a very wieed lie that feels like Raboniel is making unintended foreshadowing.

She didn't say that. She speculated Honor was killed because Odium's investiture was Honor's opposite. And she lied about wanting to kill Odium to trick Navani into cooperating. RoW ch 76:

Quote

She turned the gemstone in her fingers, then met Navani’s eyes. “Honor was killed using some process we do not yet understand. I assume, from things I have been told, that some opposite was used to tear his power apart. I thought if I could discover this opposite Light, then we would have power over the gods themselves. Would that not be the power to end a war?”

RoW ch 97:

Quote

This is why,” Navani said, kneeling beside the two. “Your god hinted that anti-Voidlight was possible, and you suspected what it would do. You captured the tower, you imprisoned and pushed me, and possibly delayed the corruption of the Sibling. Because you hoped to find this anti-Voidlight. Not because you wanted a weapon against Odium. Because you wanted to show a mercy to your daughter.”
“We could never create enough of this anti-Light to threaten Odium,” Raboniel whispered. “That was another lie, Navani. I’m sorry."

 

23 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

the one thing we know that can kill a god? A Dawnshard.

Another god. 

Edited May 4 by alder24

[KaladinWorldsinger]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

being a Dawnshard alone isn't enough. Dawnshard is just a Command, a powerful Command but that's it. You need a power, you need Surgebinding to be able to use a Dawnshard to its fullest potential. Ishar had to have another power to use his Dawnshard to destroy Ashyn - Bondsmithing.

In TSM

Quote

Meant to click spoiler

Spoiler

Nomad can skip, which doesn't come from his skybreaker or windrunner abilities. 

We know that Dawnshards don't just supercharge, there is a theme to each one- change, bind maybe etc. Aimia is the home of soulcasters. To me it seems possible that Ishar's bondsmith abilities on Ashyn might have come from a Dawnshard of Connection. The quote that dawnshards can bind anything is highly suggestive.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Anti-light wasn't discovered until Navani made it

Gavilar had it 5 years before.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

The easiest way to destroy a planet, to burn it as it happened with Ashyn, is to Connect its surface to the sun's surface. Easy

I don't think that's how that works at all. Nor does it make sense. Who and why would anyone do that? It's much more easier to believe that they used something that they had idea the destructive potential of.

 

I know that Roaboniel was tricking Navani. What I meant when I said it was a wierd lie is that it was wierd narratively.

"An opposite was used, from the things I have been told"

Brandon sets up that Honor was killed by anti light( she thinks it's voidlight, she is wrong)

"Gavilar was trying to kill a god"

A big revelation for Navani and the reader. And it makes perfect sense that gavilar's megalomania that we don't question it.

"We could never have made enough"

Suddenly all that set up is nothing. The war wouldn't end like that, as Odium is still unkillable( except nightblood). It is very unsatisfying revelation. Brandon never does that. Honor's death is a mystery, and the direct clue says that anti light was used.

My idea comes from the fact that anti light requires a connection to that part shard. This is the only way that I can think about how connection can be outwardly destructive. How Ishar's bondsmithing may have destroyed Ashyn so completely.

I conclusion, I think Ashyn and Honor got a taste of anti-light

 

 

I know this is a double post, but I would also like some discussion on the other points I am pretty confident on. That Koravari and tanavast were Dawnshard holders. And that their shards are as a result very similar to their Dawnshard intents. 

 

Thoughts? Yay or nay?

[alder24]

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

In TSM

Quote

Meant to click spoiler

  Hide contents

Nomad can skip, which doesn't come from his skybreaker or windrunner abilities. 

TSM:

Spoiler

Nor directly from his Dawnshard - Hoid can't skip. It was granted to him by some unknown event that happened at one point before TSM. That's not a direct Dawnshard ability.

Spoiler

Questioner

Is there a specific reason as to why Hoid cannot Skip, but Nomad can?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there is a specific reason for that. I'll get into it someday. Let's just say the Skipping started because of a certain event, that probably I won't write a book to talk about, but you will get an answer to that someday I hope. So it's a RAFO, but a RAFO with a little bit of a promise.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

If you're fine with it, there is no need to use spoiler boxes for TSM - it's out of the spoiler period.

To use Dawnshard to its full potential, you need some kind of Surgebinding (Invested Art). Rysn has none, she is incapable of using her Dawnshard. Dawnshards still grant some passive effects, but no planet destroying powers on their own. They are just Commands. To use Surgebinding you need to have Intent and Command - Dawnshards are the Command, intent comes from your mind, but you have to have your own Surgebinding. Dawnshard doesn't give that. Dawnshard ch 19:

Quote

Nikli laughed. “Mere words cannot explain. The Dawnshards are Commands, Rysn. The will of a god.”
[...]
“The most powerful forms of Surgebinding transcend traditional mortal understanding,” Nikli said. His body began to re-form, hordelings crawling back into place. “All their greatest applications require Intent and a Command. Demands on a level no person could ever manage alone. To make such Commands, one must have the reasoning—the breadth of understanding—of a deity. And so, the Dawnshards. The four primal Commands that created all things.” He paused. “And then eventually, they were used to undo Adonalsium itself. . . .”

 

Spoiler

Mycroft_canner

Did she use the command to manipulate the Sleepless? He seems pretty surprised it worked...

Brandon Sanderson

Rysn did not use the Dawnshard in this story, and indeed is incapable of it.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

We know that Dawnshards don't just supercharge, there is a theme to each one- change, bind maybe etc. Aimia is the home of soulcasters. To me it seems possible that Ishar's bondsmith abilities on Ashyn might have come from a Dawnshard of Connection. The quote that dawnshards can bind anything is highly suggestive.

Yes, there is a theme, I agree. They do specific things. But the quote suggests that there is a Dawnshard related to bonds, not that Dawnshard can be like supercharged Bondsmithing on its own. WoK ch 36 epigraphs:

Quote

"Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above."

 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Gavilar had it 5 years before.

Yes, that's true of course. I meant it wasn't widely known that's possible before Navani did that. How Gavilar made anti-light is unknown, but he was somewhat aware of Cosmere, he knew more - if Cosmere scientists theorized that anti-light is possible, the knowledge might have spreaded from them to Kalak/Gavilar. 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I don't think that's how that works at all. Nor does it make sense. Who and why would anyone do that? It's much more easier to believe that they used something that they had idea the destructive potential of.

That was just an example, one of several. The point was, there are other ways of destroying a planet that don't involve anti-light. 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

"An opposite was used, from the things I have been told"

Brandon sets up that Honor was killed by anti light( she thinks it's voidlight, she is wrong)

That was a lie.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

"Gavilar was trying to kill a god"

A big revelation for Navani and the reader. And it makes perfect sense that gavilar's megalomania that we don't question it.

False conclusion, Gavilar wanted to kill Fused, not Odium.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

"We could never have made enough"

Suddenly all that set up is nothing. The war wouldn't end like that, as Odium is still unkillable( except nightblood). It is very unsatisfying revelation. Brandon never does that. Honor's death is a mystery, and the direct clue says that anti light was used.

The set up was - Rabonile manipulated Navani into creating anti-light. Rabonile deceives her. It's obvious when you know Shardic power is basically infinite - you would need nearly an infinite amount of anti-light and because in Cosmere investiture can't be destroyed - it can be turned into energy - Honor's power annihilating with anit-light would have blasted Roshar out of existence - it clearly didn't happen. Moreover Odium has killed 3 other Shard before coming to Roshar, anti-light was unlikely to be involved (as Odium didn’t know how to make it, he only know it’s theoretically possible - if he knew how to make it, they would just make it, Navani would have been useless to them). All of it was just a lie and manipulation, and that’s what the set up was for.

Spoiler

James Clifford

Science question!

Brandon Sanderson

Ohh science. Is it real science, or fake science?

Adam Horne

It is Brandon science.

Brandon Sanderson

Fake science!

James Clifford

With the discovery of anti-Investiture in Rhythm of War, would the correct form of anti-Investiture be usable to clear up the mess in the Sel Cognitive Realm. If so, would this completely destroy a splintered Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs, coughs, and is otherwise stunned* That would not be a good idea. So why would that not be a good idea? So no, this would not clear up the problem. The problem that's going on in the Cognitive Realm in Sel is that a bunch of Investiture that should be in the Spiritual Realm has been packed into the Cognitive Realm instead, through a very weird circumstance of events. If you were to introduce a bunch of anti-Investiture of the right type there, you would just generate an explosion that would be a very bad thing. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, Investiture can't be either, so it's actually changing forms. It's going from Investiture into energy! Which you know, does not leave the system. So the investiture would eventually make its way back around, you can't destroy anything in the Cosmere, just like you can't destroy anything in our universe. But you can make it change forms. And so, what's going on there is just this hope by a certain individual that what has happened there will prevent the power from becoming self-aware.

It's basically Odium being like "alright I just murdered you people, I don't wanna have to come back and do it again". So he's trying to figure out a way to make this happen. As it currently stands (again, these things can change when I write future books), it was partially happenstance that he took advantage of rather than something that he was able to set up very intentionally from the beginning, but he was definitely a part.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

My idea comes from the fact that anti light requires a connection to that part shard. 

Kind of. It requires intent. They've made anti-Voidlight, by placing it in vacuum, which made the light unable to hear Odium's rhythm, kind of blanking its Connection to Odium, and then Navani played rhythm of anti-Odium to overwrite the rhythm it hears, which requires no Connection, it's math, it's music, it's a frequency. I personally wonder if you can just play Honor's tone and make Stormlight from Voidlight that way. Intent is needed, we don't know if Connection is needed too, even in Ars Arcanum Khriss said nothing about Connection:

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However, I find electrifying the news out of the mountains of Ur, that their current queen seems to have been able to Command the creation of an anti-Investiture. Long theorized, this will be my first true evidence it is possible—and can only be created through Intent.

 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

This is the only way that I can think about how connection can be outwardly destructive. How Ishar's bondsmithing may have destroyed Ashyn so completely.

Connection in Cosmere is everywhere, it binds everything together. What would happen if you start breaking Connections of individual neutrons with their bonded protons in atoms (Axi in Cosmere)? Fission, you would split the atom. That releases energy. Do it wrong and you have a nuke, do it extra, impossibly wrong with a Dawnshard and you have atmospheric ignition, where the whole atmosphere of a planet is undergoing fission. That can happen by accident, Ishar might have just discovered fission and took it one step too far. Ignition of the atmosphere was a question seriously considered by the scientists of the Manhattan project before the first test of a nuclear bomb. 

 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

That Koravari and tanavast were Dawnshard holders.

I find this to be very likely.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

And that their shards are as a result very similar to their Dawnshard intents. 

Yes, but not because they held the Dawnshards, but because they split Adonalsium in a specific way with Dawnshards and those two were already molded by their Dawnshards to embrace change and bonds, so they fit well with the Intents of Honor and Cultivation, so they took those Shards. Commands of other Dawnshards seems also plausible, I more or less agree with the rest of your points that I didn't mention earlier, or find quite likely. 

[coolsnow7]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:04 AM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Which sadly means that making a 4×4 model of Dawnshard and shard intents probably won't work out. Tanavast and Koravari match up too perfectly. 

Yes it is true that if you assume your conclusion - namely, that the intent of the Change Dawnshard is actually Cultivate, and that the intent of the Connect Dawnshard is actually Honor - then it will be hard to fit other Shards into a 4x4 format with Dawnshards.

An exercise for the reader as to whether this says more about the 4x4 format, or the evidence adduced for this theory.