Translation of the Cover page of 'The Treatise Metallurgic.'

[J'Tal]

Okay, I'm just clarifying here, but has there been a font file made yet?

[Zas678 he/him]

Afraid not. Though it might not be too hard. We've got images in the Coppermind you could use. I think they may already be vectors.

[J'Tal]

Afraid not. Though it might not be too hard. We've got images in the Coppermind you could use. I think they may already be vectors.

Unfortunatly, I am new here. What is the Coppermind? (I'm not refering to the feruchemy aspect)

[Kurkistan he/him]

Unfortunatly, I am new here. What is the Coppermind? (I'm not refering to the feruchemy aspect)

The site wiki. Linked to at the top of the forum. Welcome to the forums, by the way!

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Main_Page

Edited September 20, 2012 by Kurkistan

[J'Tal]

Thank you.

[Millennium]

Has anyone tried translating the chapter icons from the books?

[Windrunner he/him]

Not as far as I know, but I doubt there's a point to doing it. The letters double as numbers, so I'm pretty sure that's what we're seeing. I mean I guess you could check to see if there's some hidden message, but I don't think there will be one. We know that Brandon has changed his mind on which symbols represent which letters at least once since the release of the trilogy.

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

Thread revival!!!

 

 

Ok, I have something to add, but I want to ask a question or two first.

 

How was the punctuation written?

Did no other symbols show?

Are you sure Th is T+H, not a different symbol?

I would love to check it myself, but I have no copy...

 

 

A. The chapter symbols are simply couplings. They are a non-pronouncable sequence¹ that repeats itself, 23 characters long, interrupted only by the part changes (which are signified by three more symbols), and cut short by one (23x3-1=38 chapters) - the last Lerasium is missing.

 

B. In FE (have not checked the others), the part headers (each three long, five of them) do not follow a pattern, each character is one letter long, and is inpronouncable. The result is TLR MGN BKZ PAF DOH (Z being aluminium). I have not checked where each interrupts the sequence.

 

C. Assuming there is no Th char, but T+H, and assuming that Kh²is nonexistent, I think I have completed the last two metals (Aluminium and Metal 19)

 

D. I have found a pattern. I put it all on the table in the coppermind. I added the rest (At, Mal, Ler, Metals 19-22) by their order (and pairing) in the chapter headers below. Then I made a table beside it with all roman phonetisations of the metals. Two metals were question marks (Aluminium, Metal 19). I noticed the M-N pair, then the D-T one, then all of them. See here:

 

 P-B | L-R

 O-E | D-T 

 S-? | M-N

 Y-W| G-K

 

V-F

A

?-Ch | H-Sh

 

They are all related! Now I looked at the missing list - Q, X, C, J, Th, Z, Kh. The first three are not needed, they have substitutes. Kh (scottish pronunciation of "LoCH Ness monster") was never heard in the books. Th appears as TH³. Z is needed, J appears (Thank you, KChan, for pointing Jestes Lekal out).

 

Now, which one fits where? Z is Aluminium, paired with S (Duraluminium). Therefore, Metal 19 (paired with Ch, which is Metal 20) is J:

 

 P-B | L-R

 O-E | D-T 

 S-Z | M-N

 Y-W| G-K

 

V-F

A

J-Ch | H-Sh

 

Metal names: (shortened to look like a table)

 

Ste-Iro | Zin-Bra

Pe-Tin | Co-Bro

Du-Alu | Go-Ele

Ni-Chr | Ca-Ben

 

Ati-Mal

Ler

19-20 | 21-22

 

Pictures⁴ of the notepad⁴ with the logic⁴ and all are in the notes⁴.

 

 

Notes:

1. If you defy this notion, prove BPEO-LRDT-VF-MNWY-ZSGK-JChHSh-A (dashes added for comfort) can be pronounced.

2. I do not think I ever heard a Kh there. Nothing. Why have an unused letter? (for other languages, of course)

3. The writing "THE LORD RULER" appears there. A Th sign was not mentioned, so I guess there is not one.

4. Full  - in the corner, the scribbled letters are the part headers

    Analysis   - sorry it is slightly fuzzy. and that I have confusing eraser marks, like the Aluminium ones.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Tal Spektor

[KChan she/her]

2. I do not think I ever heard a name with a J there. Nothing. Why have an unused letter?

 

Did you mean on Scadrial? What about Jastes Lekal?

 

Very good post, though! I'll need to read through everything again before I actually contribute anything more, but it's clear you've put a lot of thought and effort into this.

[Claincy he/him]

Nicely done =)

 

One thing I've noticed, looking back at the alloy of law version of Valkynphyre's name from Peter. The tin symbol (aka i/e sound) was also used for y. In that case nicrosil might just be J and/or tin is used for all situations where y has an "i" sounds.

Edited September 4, 2013 by lord_Ffnord

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

This thread has kind of blown my mind.

[Shardlet he/him]

Yeah, it was new to me too.  A nice Easter egg for me.

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

Did you mean on Scadrial? What about Jastes Lekal?

 

Very good post, though! I'll need to read through everything again before I actually contribute anything more, but it's clear you've put a lot of thought and effort into this.

 

Well, storm it. I also discovered that Kh was one of my delusions, and does not exist (now it will never work with Hebrew!). Metal 19 now is officially J, in my book, and Aluminium officially Z. Note that the four added metals are not sound-paired, at least not so well.

 

Thank you! This was not that much effort, though. The most effort in this was actually drawing it all. I did pay it just a bit of excessive thought, something which I usually do when writing.

 

Nicely done =)

 

One thing I've noticed, looking back at the alloy of law version of Valkynphyre's name from Peter. The tin symbol (aka i/e sound) was also used for y. In that case nicrosil might just be J and/or tin is used for all situations where y has an "i" sounds.

 

Thanks, again.

 

Do you mean the profile picture Valk has? It does not appear to follow correct form, for example: 

The second letter (Valkynphyre) is A. Which means Lerasium. Not only does the second symbol not look even close to Lerasium (it is composed of two circles, instead of one, has two, not three, spikes, and there is no curving spike, when two should curve), it does not resemble anything we know of (I checked each char), except maybe Zinc (which is the following one) Cromium (still skewed), both of which do not sound like an A.

 

Sorry, I cannot check anything myself, for I do not own copies of written works of Sanderson, especially this one. No, I will not change Nicrosil, because this is info I got from the original post. I do think, however, that we should ask Valk to recheck his notes, and confirm that Nicro is Y and there are no metals other than the 23 in the chapter headers.

 

 

Photos of the writing pad I worked on:

Full  - in the corner, the scribbled letters are the part headers

Analysis   - sorry it is slightly fuzzy. and that I have confusing eraser marks, like the Aluminium ones.

[Claincy he/him]

Actually I disagree a bit. Many of the symbols from alloy of law are drastically different to their FE counterparts. I spent a bit of time looking through and comparing symbols and as far as I can determine the actual letter to metal is more or less the same.

 

A number of the glyphs have less spikes, in each case this appears to be because the spikes have been integrated into the flair at the end of the curve. This is most notable in the case of atium, where the curve now has a solid line on either end in place of the extra 2 spikes. I'm pretty certain it is a new font but in no way a new language.

 

In the specific case of lerasium, take the FE symbol, then take the partial curve on the left side of the glyph and extend it to a full curve and you more or less have the AOL lerasium.

 

If you look through them all you will find similar adjustments, but they still match up. I'll try to get my hands on a copy of AOl again in the next week to check the chapter headers against this.

 

Here's what I am trying to propose with nicrosil. It appears from what the small example we do have that any "i" or "e" sound is represented by tin, so "why" would be spelt chromium, mystery 21, tin. However, I am proposing that the why sound found in "yellow" as well as any j sounds should all be covered by Nicrosil. I'm not trying to say that y isn't nicrosil, but proposing that it is more phonetic based which I think fits well with the language.

 

(I don't think asking Valkynphyre will work, he hasn't been online in a long time.)

 

I ahve the MAG so I plan to look through the page myself today or tomorrow and see what we can find, but by and large I don't think we are going to find much more from it.

 

Edit: I've started going through the page and found a place where nicrosil is used at the end of the word "holy" which partially throws my theory there. I still think that i or e sounds inside words would be written using tin not nicrosil though. (I may of course find evidence against this shortly )

 

Edit2: Theroy fully debunked, beyond was spelt with nicrosil. Oh well, I think that one of the changes by AOL is that it is more phonetic based, noting that both "y"s are replaced by tin symbols with the dot in different spots representing "i" or "e" sounds. However this clearly does not apply in FE era.

 

Also, symbol 20 is actually "sh" not "ch" so symbol 22 may be "ch" but I don't know that for certain yet. Evidence: the word "shall" was spelt using symbol 20 at the start. (12th word for reference's sake).

nevermind, that was my mistake. The text is soo small!

Edited September 8, 2013 by lord_Ffnord

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

Actually I disagree a bit. Many of the symbols from alloy of law are drastically different to their FE counterparts. I spent a bit of time looking through and comparing symbols and as far as I can determine the actual letter to metal is more or less the same.

 

A number of the glyphs have less spikes, in each case this appears to be because the spikes have been integrated into the flair at the end of the curve. This is most notable in the case of atium, where the curve now has a solid line on either end in place of the extra 2 spikes. I'm pretty certain it is a new font but in no way a new language.

 

In the specific case of lerasium, take the FE symbol, then take the partial curve on the left side of the glyph and extend it to a full curve and you more or less have the AOL lerasium.

 

If you look through them all you will find similar adjustments, but they still match up. I'll try to get my hands on a copy of AOl again in the next week to check the chapter headers against this.

 

Here's what I am trying to propose with nicrosil. It appears from what the small example we do have that any "i" or "e" sound is represented by tin, so "why" would be spelt chromium, mystery 21, tin. However, I am proposing that the why sound found in "yellow" as well as any j sounds should all be covered by Nicrosil. I'm not trying to say that y isn't nicrosil, but proposing that it is more phonetic based which I think fits well with the language.

 

(I don't think asking Valkynphyre will work, he hasn't been online in a long time.)

 

I ahve the MAG so I plan to look through the page myself today or tomorrow and see what we can find, but by and large I don't think we are going to find much more from it.

 

If the fonts have changed, I will still use the FE fonts, most probably, because they look better, in all regards and aspects. At least to me.

 

There is no distinction between why's Y and yellow's Y. Or, more correctly, I do not see any such distinctionion. Both are pronounced Yi, so there should not be a Y at all.

 

When checking here (inkthinker's wobsite, second row, second from left), the words "Hemalurgy" , "Allomancy" , "Feruchemy" , "you" , "eyes" , "body" and "by" use Nicrosil. 

 

If J is not 19, what is? Not Z, J, Th, Q, X, and probably not Kh¹.

 

Please do confirm this, the photo is not of good enough resolution that I can say my judgement is absolute.

 

Notes:

1. Z is Aluminium

    J is Nicrosil

    Th is TH - Bronze 19

    Q is just K - Bendalloy

    X is KS - Bendalloy Duraluminium

    Kh is not going to be used

 

    Kolo?

[Claincy he/him]

I edited without reloading the page so I hadn't seen your new post when I did so. I proved myself wrong regarding "y" although I think it may be the case in AOL.

If the fonts have changed, I will still use the FE fonts, most probably, because they look better, in all regards and aspects. At least to me.

Same here. They look much better to me too. Which is why I am working on a font for them (it's nearly complete actually).

I currently plan to finish the font, make a reference table and transcribe the shadows of self reading into the steel alphabet for something for people to read in it then post it in a new topic.

 

I read through the entirety of the page. I found no other problems with your letter assignments, they seem right to me.

(I did find two spelling errors though The problem was in the translation from english to the steel alphabet. In one place "enhance" was spelt with a noname 20 instead of duralumin, so enhanche The other was a spelling of "shall" that used duralumin/noname 21 instead of noname 22. Both were spelt correctly in multiple other places).

 

 

There is no distinction between why's Y and yellow's Y. Or, more correctly, I do not see any such distinctionion. Both are pronounced Yi, so there should not be a Y at all.

In English the letter "y" can have 3 different sounds:

-it can sound like the personal pronoun "I"

-it can sound like an e, such as in hay. (though that isn't the best example)

-finally it has its own more unique sound that is kind of like "ue" such is in yellow or yeah etc, whenever it is at the start of the word really.

Edited September 8, 2013 by lord_Ffnord

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

I edited without reloading the page so I hadn't seen your new post when I did so. I proved myself wrong regarding "y" although I think it may be the case in AOL.

Same here. They look much better to me too. Which is why I am working on a font for them (it's nearly complete actually).

I currently plan to finish the font, make a reference table and transcribe the shadows of self reading into the steel alphabet for something for people to read in it then post it in a new topic.

 

I read through the entirety of the page. I found no other problems with your letter assignments, they seem right to me.

(I did find two spelling errors though The problem was in the translation from english to the steel alphabet. In one place "enhance" was spelt with a noname 20 instead of duralumin, so enhanche The other was a spelling of "shall" that used duralumin/noname 21 instead of noname 22. Both were spelt correctly in multiple other places).

Good luck with the fonts!

 

Um... What spelling errors? I mean - whose?

 

The SoS in steel alphabet is wicked! (or should I say: "chrome-tin-bendalloy-tin-copper!")

 

In English the letter "y" can have 3 different sounds:

-it can sound like the personal pronoun "I"

-it can sound like an e, such as in hay. (though that isn't the best example)

-finally it has its own more unique sound that is kind of like "ue" such is in yellow or yeah etc, whenever it is at the start of the word really.

 

Don't get all academic and Lord Ruler on me! I am so good in English, I know it better than my storming mother tongue!

Now, understand this: In every situation (take "yellow"), y acts either like an i (same as ee, for the most part), or like an ai (the letter i's name). 

 

Yellow = Yell Owe = Ye Low = I Ellow

​Dry = Dr Ai

Amy = (you got the idea)

 

--- Just for clarity, this psuedo-angry paragraph is a humorous take on people lecturing others.

 

Now, for the record, I get it that this does not matter, and will agree to leave the topic, since it bothers the rest of the thread, until someone else stirs it up again.

[Claincy he/him]

Yeah let's leave the somewhat irrelevant y thing. It is possible that we pronounce it differently anyway, making the whole debate even sillier.

 

The spelling mistakes were in the actual text. They were minor, particularly in "shall" that one time where he forgot to use "sh" as one character.

 

I'm now up to kerning with the font so it should be done inside the next week depending on health and uni work. I am really looking forward to having my roleplaying groups find some mysterious document and then pass them an actual sheet written in the steel alphabet

[Joe ST he/him]

Which set of symbols are you using for this here font? I think I might start vectorizing AoL symbols for the wiki, but if you already have a set, that would be cool XD

[Claincy he/him]

I'm working on the final empire set. Personally prefer them to any of the others =)

(I kind of just love Mistborn 1 in general I guess partly because it was my first Brandon novel.)

[Joe ST he/him]

Rightyo, I'll start tracing the AoL ones then...

[Claincy he/him]

Have fun =) The AoL ones shouldn't be too bad, but looking at the WoA ones let alone the ancient Terris dialect....yeah, no intention of ever doing them

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

Okay, I have two declarations!

 

1. I have a theory about names and metal symbols. To prove or disprove it, I need as many Scadrian names (preferable first) as you can remember.

 

2. I have just bought a signed MB1, and it is going to be EPIC! When it arrives (two months is reasonable), I will send pictures. I know it sounds unrelated, but I have asked some questions, and what will be sent has some connection to this topic.

[cem he/him]

1. I have a theory about names and metal symbols. To prove or disprove it, I need as many Scadrian names (preferable first) as you can remember.

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Category:Scadrian

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Category:Scadrial

 

These good enough?

[thecatinthehat]

Hi all!

 

I was just thinking it through and I get to the same conclusion, when I was analyzing the symbol shapes.

 

 

That's some table I have made. Some notes:

• These are the 23 letters from the Final Empire. Metals not appearing in the book are written in italic.

• In the Alloy of Law, there are only 16 letters used, with cadmium and bendalloy displacing atium and malatium.

• Chromium, nicrosil, cadmium and bendalloy have no appearance until the second trilogy (?).