The Grand Theory for Wind and Truth: The final battle Predictions

Honors_Gun · March 3, 2024

Hi friends, I am new to the 17th Shard and this is my first post here. Now what I am about to discuss here is not entirely my theory, most of it has been theorized by the fandom for quite some time now. I am just gathering the most probable ones together and see if it fits to form a mostly cohesive narrative.

Spoiler Alert for all of Stormlight Archive, including the chapter of Wind and Truth released by Brandon.

So, with that complete I am going to discuss the possible ending of Stormlight 5 and maybe some plot points that can be expected in the back half. Now there are dozens of characters in the Stormlight Archive each having their own compelling stories, but predicting the ending for each of them is impossible. So I will be focusing on just 4 characters, the 4 most important characters to the narrative of Stormlight Archive, the 4 characters who started it all: Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar and Szeth.

Spoiler

There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes.
The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key.
One of them may redeem us.
And one of them will destroy us.

Yeah, Brandon pretty much says they are the key. So, let's examine their paths and come to a conclusion for each of them. I think that will give us a pretty good idea of where Book 5 will end.

Shallan
So, Shallan. Her story is basically finding out who she is, confronting it and accepting it. Pattern said that Lightweavers don’t have oaths, but they have truths. This is because of their unique position as spies. Knowing their truths will keep them grounded, since they impersonate other people there is a possibility that they may get lost in the role they are playing so they must know who they are. This is why Adolin was the right choice for Shallan and not Kaladin. Adolin knew which one was the real Shallan, the woman he loves. So far Shallan has spoken 3 truths: She killed her father, She killed her mother, She killed her spren.
With the third truth Veil merged with Shallan and only Radiant is left. So, the next truth will be the one where she and Radiant merge and it will happen in Wind and Truth. One of the biggest Chekhov's guns that Brandon planted but never used in his the series so far is that Kaladin is the one who killed Helaran. And this is her reaction when she learns of it.

Spoiler

“From Kaladin.” Adolin raised his hand to his head. “The bridgeboy insisted that he’d saved Amaram’s life by killing a Shardbearer. Amaram then killed Kaladin’s squad and took the Shards for himself. That’s basically the entire reason the two hate each other.”
Shallan’s throat grew tight. “Oh.”
Tuck it away. Don’t think about it.
….
Don’t confront it. Don’t think about it.

Yeah, she suppressed it. I am not suggesting that she is going to fight Kaladin in book 5 because of this, quite the opposite really. And it comes down to Shallan’s mother, the herald Chanarach.

Yes I believe Chanarach is Shallan’s mom especially after the release of Book 5 Prologue. Again it is not my theory but it is already there. The basic premise is, Chanarach has red hair just like Shallan and she had connections to the Skybreakers and tried to kill Shallan because she was a radiant. We also know that Taln didn’t break and this theory explains that too. In the book 5 prologue we learn that one of the heralds died on the day of Gavilar’s feast, which happened six years before the Way of Kings, exactly the same time period when Shallan killed her mother. She killed her mother Chanarach and sent her to braize. Chanarach endured the torture for 6 years before breaking. So, Taln didn’t break.

This will be Shallan’s final truth. She is the one who is (indirectly) responsible for the desolation. And I don’t think Shallan will be able to ignore or suppress the truth that she pretty much caused the end of the world. I think at this moment of shame all her suppressed emotions will come out including her brother’s death.

Then there is Chanarach herself, who will not be happy to learn that her eldest son was killed by Kaladin. This is my theory, Chanarach will confront Kaladin over Helaran’s death and try to kill him. At the same time, despite knowing that Kaladin killed her favorite brother, Shallan will choose to help Kaladin by fighting her own mother whom she very much still loves. Choosing Honor over revenge and her mother. Shallan will merge with Radiant and become a fully realized Lightweaver and possibly even revive Testament.

Shallan will also survive Book 5, and go on to transform her Lightweaver Radiants into a cosmere wide spy network with the help of Hoid (who is also a Lightweaver) in order to fight the Ghostbloods.

Dalinar
Dalinar is the one on whom I am most conflicted. I mean his character arc pretty much came to a conclusion in Oathbringer with the You cannot have my Pain moment. There is really nothing much to develop in Dalinar except for the Duel he has with Odium. Now, Taravodium is not that different from Raysodium.

Spoiler

Oh, you wonderful creature, he thought. You have no idea what you have done.
He was finally free of the frailties of body and position that had always controlled and defined him. He finally had the freedom to do what he’d desired.
And now, Taravangian was going to save them all.

So, Taravodium wants to rule over the entire cosmere and he thinks he will do a better job than the current shards. So, what he wants is simple, to be free of the Rosharan system, while also maintaining some control over it. So what is the way for Taravodium to get what he wants?

Spoiler

“Basically?” Dalinar pressed. “What happens, Odium, if you break your word.”
“Then the contract is void, and I am in your power. Same, but reversed, if you break the contract. You would be in my power, and the restrictions Honor placed upon me—chaining me to the Rosharan system and preventing me from using my powers on most individuals—would be void."

Brandon has removed Rayse and introduced Taravangian as Odium because Rayse doesn’t have that fear factor anymore. So I think Taravangian will get what he wants. So Dalinar will somehow end up breaking the contract. It wont turn the Stormfather into deadeyes but it will let Odium to corrupt the Stormfather, potentially ending his ability to supply Stormlight.

Szeth
Szeth’s character is all about finding the truth himself. First he followed his religion blindly, then he followed Nale blindly and now he is following Dalinar blindly. His character arc is to break free of this and learn to distinguish right from wrong by himself. To learn what is the truth without blindly following others.
Szeth’s fourth Ideal is ‘I will cleanse the Shin of their false leaders, so long as Dalinar Kholin agrees.’
And he will complete that successfully. But it won’t be the end for Szeth, by the end of book five he will be a 5th Ideal radiant.
This is what Nale says regarding the fifth Ideal

Spoiler

If you progress as a Skybreaker, you will need to become the law. To reach your ultimate potential, you must know the truth yourself, rather than relying on the crutch presented by the Third Ideal. Be aware of this.

So imagine, Szeth completes his 4th ideal and returns to Urithiru, to Dalinar and what does he see? Dalinar has broken the contract, the law. Szeth will be forced to confront the reality that Dalinar was wrong and following him is not the right way. This is when he rises higher and swears his fifth ideal, becoming his own man.
After that Szeth will kill Dalinar, thus stopping Odium’s corruption on the Stormfather from getting much worse. Since he would be using Nightblood to kill Dalinar this might even sever his bond to Stormfather and Honor. Odium will then transform Dalinar’s cognitive shadow into a Fused.

Kaladin
Well if there is one thing I am certain about our sad depressed bridgeboy, it is that he will live. The entire point of Kaladin’s character arc is that no matter how good and powerful he becomes there will always be those he cannot save, and he has to learn to live with it. And Kaladin finally achieved that in RoW, so killing him off in Winds and Truth even if it was a heroic self sacrifice will not be satisfying. Also he is being set up as a therapist for the Heralds. So, what do I think will happen with him? Well, he will Ascend to honor.

There are many references to this in the books. Kaladin’s very first POV chapter is named “Honor is Dead”. Then there is that moment in WoR where he says, “Honor is dead, but I’ll see what I can do.”
Brandon pretty much said that Kaladin never felt the Thrill because of Syl, but he was not bonded to Syl in Amaram’s army. Syl seems to remember Kaladin’s childhood despite not being bonded to him at that time. His connection to Aesudan as he recognizes the tune she is singing. He is also related to her by blood for some reason. In Oathbringer Kaladin killed, like actually killed a corrupted spren using Syl. The corrupted spren died like Phendorana.

Spoiler

Kaladin reacted with swift, immediate rage. He growled, seizing the Sylblade from the air, forming a small dagger from mist. He drove the dagger forward and caught one of the spren, pinning it to the wall’s wooden paneling. He had never known a Shardblade to cut a spren before, but this worked. The thing screamed in a soft voice, a hundred hands coming from its shape and scraping at the Blade, at the wall, until it seemed to rip into a thousand tiny pieces, then faded.

Then in both Oathbringer and RoW he commanded the Windspren to blow back the storm itself and they did it. Honestly there is so much more to Kaladin that is very similar to Vin from Mistborn. There is the Child of Tanavast.

Overall?
So what is it that I am trying to say? Well the Duel of the Champions will not be the final act of the book. It will probably happen at the end of Part 3. The true final act, the Sanderlanch will not be at Urithiru or Shinovar, it will be at the Shattered Plains. There a loophole in the treaty

Spoiler

Dalinar said. “The terms will enforce a treaty in ten days, following the contest. The contest will decide the fate of Alethkar, among ... other items. Regardless, the hostilities will continue until that day, and so we must remain vigilant. I expect the enemy to make a play to capture what he can, before the treaty finalizes borders. I perhaps made a miscalculation there.

So after the Duel, there will be a final battle between the Radiants and the forces of Odium at the shattered plains. It will probably be for Ba-Ado-Mishram, each racing against time to get her for themselves. Only the Radiants will be low on morale and Stormlight due to Dalinar’s loss. They will be losing against the forces of Odium when the Singers led by Venli and Rlain join the battle to help the Radiants. Oh, and they will probably be riding on Chasmfiends as in RoW we saw them controlling one at the end.
It is after this Kaladin will ascend, and by this point I think he would have lost Syl. Syl would be alive, but he would have lost his bond with her. I think Ishar would have brought Syl into the physical realm by this point. So how will Kaladin ascend? This is what Hoid told Kaladin in one of the SA 5 chapters released by Brandon

Spoiler

"Listen. I think you can rise to this. Probably. Difficult though it will be. You're up for a different kind of challenge now. As am I." Wit tapped the flute. "You're going to have to learn to play music, Kaladin. Without using your breath or your lips."
"Wit. I know we've been joking about being confusing. Can you try for once to be clear?"
"I am trying. You'll win when you don't play music with your own breath, and when you fight without your own muscles. Play the flute, but don't. And fight, but don't."

What I think will happen is, during the battle Kaladin will play the Flute, and he will play the Rhythm of Honor. Just like how Navani produces Towerlight from a Rhythm, Kaladin will produce Stormlight with the Rhythm of Honor. This coupled with his near deity-like status in Urithiru among the Radiants and the recently forged alliance between Men and Singers will help Kaladin reassemble the Splintered Shard of Honor and Ascend. Maybe he might have help form Ba-Ado-Mishram, or Hoid, or Cultivation or even Dalinar. This will give the edge the Radiants need to defeat Odium’s forces.

Szeth will probably fight and then convince Nale to rejoin the side of the Radiants, thus bringing the Order of Skybreakers back to Honor.

Moash will have his redemption journey and will take Jezrien’s place as a herald. I am not sure exactly how this will happen but I am confident Moash is on a redemption path.

Once the battle is won, Kaladin as Honor will reform the Oathpact and seal away the Fused. Only this time he will go to Braize along with all the Heralds. His presence will allow the Heralds to fight back against the Fused and give Kaladin enough space and time to perform Mental Therapy on them.

The back half of the books will deal with the scarcity of Stormlight, the Men who have bonded Odium’s spren like Aesudan, The introduction of Lifelight through Lift. A shadowy war with the Ghostbloods over Investiture. Now although Odium is free from the Rosharan System, he has also pretty much lost control over Roshar and the Fused. So he will return in the end back half for a Final Confrontation.

This is when Kaladin and the Heralds return from Braize. By the end of Book 10 Dalinar will break free of Odium. Since there are so many Corrupted spren and unmades like Sja-anat who go against Odium, perhaps by the end of Book 10 Kaladin will splinter Odium and take it up himself and become War. After all, Kaladin is described as a passionate man many times. This will set the stage for an overall cosmere wide conflict. Harmony vs War vs Autonomy vs Endowment etc…

Dofurion · March 3, 2024

37 minutes ago, Honors_Gun said:

Dalinar is the one on whom I am most conflicted. I mean his character arc pretty much came to a conclusion in Oathbringer with the You cannot have my Pain moment. There is really nothing much to develop in Dalinar except for the Duel he has with Odium.

I slightly disagree; Dalinar's arc still lacks something important: learning to let go of power and the bonds he created after forging them.

Lord Spirit · March 4, 2024

I'm glad you acknowledge the message on the back of book one. In my opinion, the two most important lines are the last two

One of them may redeem us

Out of the four, the only two I see with this potential are Dalinar and Kaladin.

Shallan is... Different and I agree with you that She'll go on to be part of the bigger Cosmere and be involved with the ghostbloods.

Szeth's struggles are internal and he has yet to do much redeeming. At the end of the day, he is the Assassin, not the hero. but this is his book, so things can change.

Dalinar has the most obvious means of saving Roshar; if he wins the contest (an apparently unpopular opinion) Odium gets sealed away and they live happily ever after (as much as it's possible for a cosmere book to be happy). You could argue that he's already saved Roshar by reorganizing the Knights radiant and binding Odium to braize for another thousand years. He very much fits the "may" part due to how close he came to falling in Oathbringer.

Kaladin is the main character of the series. He's the only one to have a perspective in every part and has the highest word count by far. I don't think he's going to become Honor; it would be too similar to mistborn, but I think that he could replace Jezrien (the Windrunner herald) and reforge the oathpact but maybe in a better that makes it more secure. He's been through enough that I think would survive the torture. Reforging the oathpact regardless of Dalinar's success would save Roshar to some degree.

Or it could be that none of them succeed and Roshar is doomed (until the sequels...)

2. One of them will destroy us.

In my opinion, this would be Szeth or Dalinar

As stated above, Shallan is going to be important later in the cosmere, and also, she realistically isn't capable of destroying Roshar. She isn't great at fighting and has cut her ties to the ghostbloods.

Kaladin is a good person. As Moash puts it in RoW, Kaladin isn't going to join Odium. the worst thing he would do would be to kill himself, but that was dealt with in RoW. The only scenario I can see where Kaladin dooms Roshar is if he ends up as champion and Odium puts an innocent. As theorized elsewhere, Kaladin would struggle between doing what is nessecary and what is morally right.

Szeth, on the other hand, is an extremely cabable, mentally unstable assassin who wound up with the most deadly weapon in the Cosmere. Nightblood is capable of killing pretty much anything. I don't have a specific idea for why Szeth would end the world, but he certainly has the capacity to.

Finally, we have Dalinar, who already has the weight of the world on his shoulders with the Contest between him and Odium. if he fails, I still think Roshar would survive, but it would definitively be bad.

alder24 · March 4, 2024

21 hours ago, Honors_Gun said:

Then there is Chanarach herself, who will not be happy to learn that her eldest son was killed by Kaladin. This is my theory, Chanarach will confront Kaladin over Helaran’s death and try to kill him. At the same time, despite knowing that Kaladin killed her favorite brother, Shallan will choose to help Kaladin by fighting her own mother whom she very much still loves. Choosing Honor over revenge and her mother. Shallan will merge with Radiant and become a fully realized Lightweaver and possibly even revive Testament.

Oh, I like it very much. We rarely speak about the consequences of Helaran and this idea gives it a nice and meaningful conclusion.

21 hours ago, Honors_Gun said:

Dalinar is the one on whom I am most conflicted. I mean his character arc pretty much came to a conclusion in Oathbringer with the You cannot have my Pain moment. There is really nothing much to develop in Dalinar except for the Duel he has with Odium

Disagree. He is a despot who has trouble giving away his almost absolute power. I think this will be a focus for his arc and his next Ideal.

21 hours ago, Honors_Gun said:

In Oathbringer Kaladin killed, like actually killed a corrupted spren using Syl. The corrupted spren died like Phendorana.

No. It just lost his form, but the spren was fine and reformed later. It was said maybe even in the book. But this WoB confirms this:

Spoiler

Questioner

Does silver break Connection or bonds? If silver does have this effect, does it get used in the creation of unkeyed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

These are good questions. Silver, as I have it right now, is not capable of that. What silver's doing is is disrupting. It's more like interference. You know how, in White Sand, people can have these columns of sand. If you swiped silver through that, they would fall; but then they would be able to do it again. It's this little nullification for a short time. It's very dangerous to things like shades, and stuff like that. It's more disruptive. If you hit a spren with this, it would be like hitting them with a Shardblade. They're gonna come back together. They're not dead; they're gonna reform eventually, and probably won't take too long. So it's not severing Connection; you're gonna need anti-Investiture to do really destructive stuff. But you can disrupt with some silver. It's specifically bad for Shades for reasons maybe I'll get into someday.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

21 hours ago, Honors_Gun said:

Then in both Oathbringer and RoW he commanded the Windspren to blow back the storm itself and they did it.

That's the Surge of Adhesion, manipulation of pressure. It's impressive, but still falls within the ability of normal Windrunners.

21 hours ago, Honors_Gun said:

There is the Child of Tanavast.

Yes and we know this is significant:

Spoiler

Winds Alight (paraphrased)

In SA the Stormfather refers to several people as "Child of Honor", but only Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast". Is there significance to that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, there is.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

21 hours ago, Honors_Gun said:

Oh, and they will probably be riding on Chasmfiends as in RoW we saw them controlling one at the end.

They were not controlling them, they were protected by them.

Those are some interesting predictions, it was fun reading them.

Honors_Gun · March 4, 2024

1 hour ago, Lord Spirit said:

Kaladin is the main character of the series. He's the only one to have a perspective in every part and has the highest word count by far. I don't think he's going to become Honor; it would be too similar to mistborn, but I think that he could replace Jezrien (the Windrunner herald) and reforge the oathpact but maybe in a better that makes it more secure. He's been through enough that I think would survive the torture. Reforging the oathpact regardless of Dalinar's success would save Roshar to some degree.

Before reading Reading Rhythm of War I also thought that Kaladin will take Jezrien's place, but after RoW I am not sure. Although if Kaladin doesn't ascend to Honor I assume he will take Jezrien's place. What convinced me the he will ascend is that in RoW he is being setup as the Therapist of the Heralds. He cannot do that if he himself is being tortured in Braize. Besides I don't see the Heralds agreeing to return to Braize unless there is someway for them to avoid Torture. I mean, Kalak wanted to get away from Roshar and if the "Stormfather" we see in the Prologue of SA5 is Ishar, then his plan is to probably replace himself with another person in the Oathpact. That is the primary reason for me to think he will Ascend.

Lord Spirit · March 4, 2024

3 minutes ago, Honors_Gun said:

Before reading Reading Rhythm of War I also thought that Kaladin will take Jezrien's place, but after RoW I am not sure. Although if Kaladin doesn't ascend to Honor I assume he will take Jezrien's place. What convinced me the he will ascend is that in RoW he is being setup as the Therapist of the Heralds. He cannot do that if he himself is being tortured in Braize. Besides I don't see the Heralds agreeing to return to Braize unless there is someway for them to avoid Torture. I mean, Kalak wanted to get away from Roshar and if the "Stormfather" we see in the Prologue of SA5 is Ishar, then his plan is to probably replace himself with another person in the Oathpact. That is the primary reason for me to think he will Ascend.

If not Kaladin, then who?

I can't of think any characters we know of who could handle being a herald, since it involves lots of torture. Jezrien died, and if Dalinar wants to fully reforge the oathpact, there would need to be another Herald. I feel like the therapist is a temporary setup for book five. I don't therapy can save the heralds at this point. Kaladin isn't the only one who can help, and it will be carried on by Lirin and maybe some bridgemen.

alder24 · March 4, 2024

1 hour ago, Honors_Gun said:

Before reading Reading Rhythm of War I also thought that Kaladin will take Jezrien's place, but after RoW I am not sure. Although if Kaladin doesn't ascend to Honor I assume he will take Jezrien's place. What convinced me the he will ascend is that in RoW he is being setup as the Therapist of the Heralds. He cannot do that if he himself is being tortured in Braize. Besides I don't see the Heralds agreeing to return to Braize unless there is someway for them to avoid Torture. I mean, Kalak wanted to get away from Roshar and if the "Stormfather" we see in the Prologue of SA5 is Ishar, then his plan is to probably replace himself with another person in the Oathpact. That is the primary reason for me to think he will Ascend.

53 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

If not Kaladin, then who?

I can't of think any characters we know of who could handle being a herald, since it involves lots of torture. Jezrien died, and if Dalinar wants to fully reforge the oathpact, there would need to be another Herald. I feel like the therapist is a temporary setup for book five. I don't therapy can save the heralds at this point. Kaladin isn't the only one who can help, and it will be carried on by Lirin and maybe some bridgemen.

I think you're missing an obvious solution - no Oathpact and no new Heralds. The Oathpact was proven to be ineffective, it failed spectacularly. We need a different way to stop Desolations for good, something that doesn't involve locking people away for eternity of torture. That's my opinion, there will be no Oathpact and no new Heralds.

22 hours ago, Honors_Gun said:

Once the battle is won, Kaladin as Honor will reform the Oathpact and seal away the Fused. Only this time he will go to Braize along with all the Heralds. His presence will allow the Heralds to fight back against the Fused and give Kaladin enough space and time to perform Mental Therapy on them.

Honor already WAS on Braize 7000 years ago, just like he was on Ashyn and Roshar. Those three Shards are present in the entire system. Honor/Tanavast was with Heralds on Braize back when they were tortured and it didn't help them at all.

Spoiler

ZuperzubS

Hi Brandon, just to double check my understanding of things, Odium is still mostly bound on Braize right? Just that he can influence things on Roshar because of proximity?

Brandon Sanderson

I treat Braize, Ashyn, and Roshar as if they were almost one entity for a lot of Identity/Connection related issues. It's more than proximity, though proximity leads to it. We on Earth, I feel, would consider the moon and even Mars to be "ours" so to speak, part of our family of planets. Odium's binding, and that of the Heralds/Fused encompasses Roshar and Ashyn. There are some subtle distinctions, but for the most part, being bound on Braize is the same as being bound on Roshar.

[...]

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 7, 2020)

QuantumAce · March 4, 2024

On 3/3/2024 at 11:48 AM, Honors_Gun said:

Once the battle is won, Kaladin as Honor will reform the Oathpact and seal away the Fused. Only this time he will go to Braize along with all the Heralds. His presence will allow the Heralds to fight back against the Fused and give Kaladin enough space and time to perform Mental Therapy on them.

I don't like this. If Kaladin does take up Honor, his final sacrifice would be accepting responsibility for all of Roshar. This would be in direct contrast to...

On 3/3/2024 at 12:30 PM, Dofurion said:

I slightly disagree; Dalinar's arc still lacks something important: learning to let go of power and the bonds he created after forging them.

Dalinar, who has finally found the balance of using power without tyranny. I was originally hoping to see Dalinar re-forge Honor and take up the Shard, but now I am leaning towards the personal growth side of learning to let go of control.

+Oltux72 · March 5, 2024

15 hours ago, alder24 said:

I think you're missing an obvious solution - no Oathpact and no new Heralds. The Oathpact was proven to be ineffective, it failed spectacularly. We need a different way to stop Desolations for good, something that doesn't involve locking people away for eternity of torture. That's my opinion, there will be no Oathpact and no new Heralds.

Honor already WAS on Braize 7000 years ago, just like he was on Ashyn and Roshar. Those three Shards are present in the entire system. Honor/Tanavast was with Heralds on Braize back when they were tortured and it didn't help them at all.

Reveal hidden contents

ZuperzubS

Hi Brandon, just to double check my understanding of things, Odium is still mostly bound on Braize right? Just that he can influence things on Roshar because of proximity?

Brandon Sanderson

I treat Braize, Ashyn, and Roshar as if they were almost one entity for a lot of Identity/Connection related issues. It's more than proximity, though proximity leads to it. We on Earth, I feel, would consider the moon and even Mars to be "ours" so to speak, part of our family of planets. Odium's binding, and that of the Heralds/Fused encompasses Roshar and Ashyn. There are some subtle distinctions, but for the most part, being bound on Braize is the same as being bound on Roshar.

[...]

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 7, 2020)

The Heralds have bodies whenever they return
The Heralds have bodies optimized for war
The Heralds have weapons optimized for war
The Heralds have surgebinding, again optimized for war

All these capabilities come from Honor. We have to be clear on that. Honor chose as lesser evil or actively wanted the cycle of Desolations

alder24 · March 5, 2024

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The Heralds have bodies whenever they return

The Heralds have bodies optimized for war

The Heralds have weapons optimized for war

The Heralds have surgebinding, again optimized for war

All these capabilities come from Honor. We have to be clear on that. Honor chose as lesser evil or actively wanted the cycle of Desolations

OR the First Desolation with Fused, before Heralds were made, was so devastating that Heralds' purpose was to fight with people and for people, helping them recover. Heralds were made during a war time, humanity was losing to an enemy that kept being reborn. And so they fought, then when humanity was rising back on their feet, they left for Braize to lock Fused and Voidspren for good. I do believe that Honor indeed didn't predict that Heralds could break their Oath and let Fused back on Roshar.

Still I think that Honor chose lesser evil by allowing Odium to settle on Roshar in the first place and imprisoning him there. He had to know that Odium wanted to kill him and Cultivation and he would use everything to achieve that. Honor risked sacrificing humanity and Dawnsingers to achieve his goal but it didn't really work.

+Oltux72 · March 5, 2024

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I do believe that Honor indeed didn't predict that Heralds could break their Oath and let Fused back on Roshar.

Why then were they equipped with the ability to reform their original bodies? No other Cognitive Shadows can do that.

alder24 · March 5, 2024

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Why then were they equipped with the ability to reform their original bodies? No other Cognitive Shadows can do that.

Maybe that's just a side effect of being so invested? Yumi spoilers:

Spoiler

Yumi did exactly that.

Argenti · March 5, 2024

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Maybe that's just a side effect of being so invested? Yumi spoilers:

Hide contents

Yumi did exactly that.

Yumi

Spoiler

Albiet with a little help, providing the connection, intent and probably a bit of identity. I'm guessing the oathpact provides the connection to the physical world.

+Oltux72 · March 7, 2024

On 3/5/2024 at 4:40 PM, alder24 said:

Maybe that's just a side effect of being so invested? Yumi spoilers:

Hide contents

Yumi did exactly that.

(Yumi)

Spoiler

Why was Hoid considering considering Yumi's resurrection to be extraordinary?

alder24 · March 7, 2024

15 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

(Yumi)

Hide contents

Why was Hoid considering considering Yumi's resurrection to be extraordinary?

Yumi spoilers:

Spoiler

Because it ruined his story and what he considered to be a great ending. Epilogue:

Quote

I’m sorry I had to bring this ending to you. But the more you think about it, the more you’ll realize that our tale today had to end in such a way. Stories demand certain endings. It’s part of their nature.
I wish I could have explained this to Painter, kneeling as he did on the cobbles, staring out as his world turned upside down. Because he didn’t understand.
He thought the story wasn’t finished.
[...]
Horribly inconsiderate of him. We were all ready to go home. The story should have been done.

Zrogezrg · March 8, 2024

Thanks for your predictions, entertaining read.

Before my personal opinions, one point worth mentioning is that the quote regarding "4 we watch" comes from sleepless:

On 3/3/2024 at 6:48 PM, Honors_Gun said:

One of them may redeem us.
And one of them will destroy us.

This may not mean "us" by all Rosharians, but maybe just sleepless. What do they need to be redeem from? To what degree can they be destroy? Just some food for thought ;).

I really like your points on Shallan. Connecting loose threads of Heleran, her Mother sound like something Brandon would do.

Regarding Kaladin, I like him more as Jezrien 2.0, but him ascending seems like something that could fill similar role, moving Kal into more of a background, without killing him.

Dalinar is problematic, because there is no reader's consensus on what is really going on. What is Unity (Dawnshard, shard reIntended)? What does "We killed you!" precisely means? BondSmith unchained is one thing, but being bonded to largest piece of dead shard is something extra on top of it. What does ascending to Honor look like in this scenerio? Is there some pool somewhere? somebody like semi dead Leras walking around? Can Dalinar just touch Kaladin chest and make him ascend? If you have device like the one in Secret History, can you just active it and ascend? Can somebody ascend without Dalinar help/agreement, or without killing him?

Without assuming some answers to the questions above, it is hard to speculate.

On 3/3/2024 at 6:48 PM, Honors_Gun said:

So Dalinar will somehow end up breaking the contract. It wont turn the Stormfather into deadeyes but it will let Odium to corrupt the Stormfather, potentially ending his ability to supply Stormlight.

The idea of ending supply Stormlight seems interesting, and something that could be left as a cliff-hanger, for Radians to learn to cope with during time skip.

I would describe Szeth more in light of working to regain faith in his own judgement, he is the one that treats it most sacred in his family in his flashback from book 5, but in the end, He is the one to go with his convictions, questioning stone shamans, making him Truthless.

Also, I the 4th ideal crusade is weird, as it works differently than other oaths, as it said before knight does anything, other that picking a goal. I would assume, that perks from 4th ideal, would only kick in, once the crusade is completed ( or bit by bit as it is being completed). Hence, I do not see Szeth pretty much doing 2 oaths in 1 book, especially, the ones that are said to be the hardest.

March 8, 2024

On 3/3/2024 at 10:48 AM, Honors_Gun said:

Hi friends, I am new to the 17th Shard and this is my first post here. Now what I am about to discuss here is not entirely my theory, most of it has been theorized by the fandom for quite some time now. I am just gathering the most probable ones together and see if it fits to form a mostly cohesive narrative.

Spoiler Alert for all of Stormlight Archive, including the chapter of Wind and Truth released by Brandon.

So, with that complete I am going to discuss the possible ending of Stormlight 5 and maybe some plot points that can be expected in the back half. Now there are dozens of characters in the Stormlight Archive each having their own compelling stories, but predicting the ending for each of them is impossible. So I will be focusing on just 4 characters, the 4 most important characters to the narrative of Stormlight Archive, the 4 characters who started it all: Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar and Szeth.

Reveal hidden contents

There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes.
The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key.
One of them may redeem us.
And one of them will destroy us.

Yeah, Brandon pretty much says they are the key. So, let's examine their paths and come to a conclusion for each of them. I think that will give us a pretty good idea of where Book 5 will end.

Shallan
So, Shallan. Her story is basically finding out who she is, confronting it and accepting it. Pattern said that Lightweavers don’t have oaths, but they have truths. This is because of their unique position as spies. Knowing their truths will keep them grounded, since they impersonate other people there is a possibility that they may get lost in the role they are playing so they must know who they are. This is why Adolin was the right choice for Shallan and not Kaladin. Adolin knew which one was the real Shallan, the woman he loves. So far Shallan has spoken 3 truths: She killed her father, She killed her mother, She killed her spren.
With the third truth Veil merged with Shallan and only Radiant is left. So, the next truth will be the one where she and Radiant merge and it will happen in Wind and Truth. One of the biggest Chekhov's guns that Brandon planted but never used in his the series so far is that Kaladin is the one who killed Helaran. And this is her reaction when she learns of it.

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“From Kaladin.” Adolin raised his hand to his head. “The bridgeboy insisted that he’d saved Amaram’s life by killing a Shardbearer. Amaram then killed Kaladin’s squad and took the Shards for himself. That’s basically the entire reason the two hate each other.”
Shallan’s throat grew tight. “Oh.”
Tuck it away. Don’t think about it.
….
Don’t confront it. Don’t think about it.

Yeah, she suppressed it. I am not suggesting that she is going to fight Kaladin in book 5 because of this, quite the opposite really. And it comes down to Shallan’s mother, the herald Chanarach.

Yes I believe Chanarach is Shallan’s mom especially after the release of Book 5 Prologue. Again it is not my theory but it is already there. The basic premise is, Chanarach has red hair just like Shallan and she had connections to the Skybreakers and tried to kill Shallan because she was a radiant. We also know that Taln didn’t break and this theory explains that too. In the book 5 prologue we learn that one of the heralds died on the day of Gavilar’s feast, which happened six years before the Way of Kings, exactly the same time period when Shallan killed her mother. She killed her mother Chanarach and sent her to braize. Chanarach endured the torture for 6 years before breaking. So, Taln didn’t break.

This will be Shallan’s final truth. She is the one who is (indirectly) responsible for the desolation. And I don’t think Shallan will be able to ignore or suppress the truth that she pretty much caused the end of the world. I think at this moment of shame all her suppressed emotions will come out including her brother’s death.

Then there is Chanarach herself, who will not be happy to learn that her eldest son was killed by Kaladin. This is my theory, Chanarach will confront Kaladin over Helaran’s death and try to kill him. At the same time, despite knowing that Kaladin killed her favorite brother, Shallan will choose to help Kaladin by fighting her own mother whom she very much still loves. Choosing Honor over revenge and her mother. Shallan will merge with Radiant and become a fully realized Lightweaver and possibly even revive Testament.

Shallan will also survive Book 5, and go on to transform her Lightweaver Radiants into a cosmere wide spy network with the help of Hoid (who is also a Lightweaver) in order to fight the Ghostbloods.

Dalinar
Dalinar is the one on whom I am most conflicted. I mean his character arc pretty much came to a conclusion in Oathbringer with the You cannot have my Pain moment. There is really nothing much to develop in Dalinar except for the Duel he has with Odium. Now, Taravodium is not that different from Raysodium.

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Oh, you wonderful creature, he thought. You have no idea what you have done.
He was finally free of the frailties of body and position that had always controlled and defined him. He finally had the freedom to do what he’d desired.
And now, Taravangian was going to save them all.

So, Taravodium wants to rule over the entire cosmere and he thinks he will do a better job than the current shards. So, what he wants is simple, to be free of the Rosharan system, while also maintaining some control over it. So what is the way for Taravodium to get what he wants?

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“Basically?” Dalinar pressed. “What happens, Odium, if you break your word.”
“Then the contract is void, and I am in your power. Same, but reversed, if you break the contract. You would be in my power, and the restrictions Honor placed upon me—chaining me to the Rosharan system and preventing me from using my powers on most individuals—would be void."

Brandon has removed Rayse and introduced Taravangian as Odium because Rayse doesn’t have that fear factor anymore. So I think Taravangian will get what he wants. So Dalinar will somehow end up breaking the contract. It wont turn the Stormfather into deadeyes but it will let Odium to corrupt the Stormfather, potentially ending his ability to supply Stormlight.

Szeth
Szeth’s character is all about finding the truth himself. First he followed his religion blindly, then he followed Nale blindly and now he is following Dalinar blindly. His character arc is to break free of this and learn to distinguish right from wrong by himself. To learn what is the truth without blindly following others.
Szeth’s fourth Ideal is ‘I will cleanse the Shin of their false leaders, so long as Dalinar Kholin agrees.’
And he will complete that successfully. But it won’t be the end for Szeth, by the end of book five he will be a 5th Ideal radiant.
This is what Nale says regarding the fifth Ideal

Reveal hidden contents

If you progress as a Skybreaker, you will need to become the law. To reach your ultimate potential, you must know the truth yourself, rather than relying on the crutch presented by the Third Ideal. Be aware of this.

So imagine, Szeth completes his 4th ideal and returns to Urithiru, to Dalinar and what does he see? Dalinar has broken the contract, the law. Szeth will be forced to confront the reality that Dalinar was wrong and following him is not the right way. This is when he rises higher and swears his fifth ideal, becoming his own man.
After that Szeth will kill Dalinar, thus stopping Odium’s corruption on the Stormfather from getting much worse. Since he would be using Nightblood to kill Dalinar this might even sever his bond to Stormfather and Honor. Odium will then transform Dalinar’s cognitive shadow into a Fused.

Kaladin
Well if there is one thing I am certain about our sad depressed bridgeboy, it is that he will live. The entire point of Kaladin’s character arc is that no matter how good and powerful he becomes there will always be those he cannot save, and he has to learn to live with it. And Kaladin finally achieved that in RoW, so killing him off in Winds and Truth even if it was a heroic self sacrifice will not be satisfying. Also he is being set up as a therapist for the Heralds. So, what do I think will happen with him? Well, he will Ascend to honor.

There are many references to this in the books. Kaladin’s very first POV chapter is named “Honor is Dead”. Then there is that moment in WoR where he says, “Honor is dead, but I’ll see what I can do.”
Brandon pretty much said that Kaladin never felt the Thrill because of Syl, but he was not bonded to Syl in Amaram’s army. Syl seems to remember Kaladin’s childhood despite not being bonded to him at that time. His connection to Aesudan as he recognizes the tune she is singing. He is also related to her by blood for some reason. In Oathbringer Kaladin killed, like actually killed a corrupted spren using Syl. The corrupted spren died like Phendorana.

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Kaladin reacted with swift, immediate rage. He growled, seizing the Sylblade from the air, forming a small dagger from mist. He drove the dagger forward and caught one of the spren, pinning it to the wall’s wooden paneling. He had never known a Shardblade to cut a spren before, but this worked. The thing screamed in a soft voice, a hundred hands coming from its shape and scraping at the Blade, at the wall, until it seemed to rip into a thousand tiny pieces, then faded.

Then in both Oathbringer and RoW he commanded the Windspren to blow back the storm itself and they did it. Honestly there is so much more to Kaladin that is very similar to Vin from Mistborn. There is the Child of Tanavast.

Overall?
So what is it that I am trying to say? Well the Duel of the Champions will not be the final act of the book. It will probably happen at the end of Part 3. The true final act, the Sanderlanch will not be at Urithiru or Shinovar, it will be at the Shattered Plains. There a loophole in the treaty

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Dalinar said. “The terms will enforce a treaty in ten days, following the contest. The contest will decide the fate of Alethkar, among ... other items. Regardless, the hostilities will continue until that day, and so we must remain vigilant. I expect the enemy to make a play to capture what he can, before the treaty finalizes borders. I perhaps made a miscalculation there.

So after the Duel, there will be a final battle between the Radiants and the forces of Odium at the shattered plains. It will probably be for Ba-Ado-Mishram, each racing against time to get her for themselves. Only the Radiants will be low on morale and Stormlight due to Dalinar’s loss. They will be losing against the forces of Odium when the Singers led by Venli and Rlain join the battle to help the Radiants. Oh, and they will probably be riding on Chasmfiends as in RoW we saw them controlling one at the end.
It is after this Kaladin will ascend, and by this point I think he would have lost Syl. Syl would be alive, but he would have lost his bond with her. I think Ishar would have brought Syl into the physical realm by this point. So how will Kaladin ascend? This is what Hoid told Kaladin in one of the SA 5 chapters released by Brandon

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"Listen. I think you can rise to this. Probably. Difficult though it will be. You're up for a different kind of challenge now. As am I." Wit tapped the flute. "You're going to have to learn to play music, Kaladin. Without using your breath or your lips."
"Wit. I know we've been joking about being confusing. Can you try for once to be clear?"
"I am trying. You'll win when you don't play music with your own breath, and when you fight without your own muscles. Play the flute, but don't. And fight, but don't."

What I think will happen is, during the battle Kaladin will play the Flute, and he will play the Rhythm of Honor. Just like how Navani produces Towerlight from a Rhythm, Kaladin will produce Stormlight with the Rhythm of Honor. This coupled with his near deity-like status in Urithiru among the Radiants and the recently forged alliance between Men and Singers will help Kaladin reassemble the Splintered Shard of Honor and Ascend. Maybe he might have help form Ba-Ado-Mishram, or Hoid, or Cultivation or even Dalinar. This will give the edge the Radiants need to defeat Odium’s forces.

Szeth will probably fight and then convince Nale to rejoin the side of the Radiants, thus bringing the Order of Skybreakers back to Honor.

Moash will have his redemption journey and will take Jezrien’s place as a herald. I am not sure exactly how this will happen but I am confident Moash is on a redemption path.

Once the battle is won, Kaladin as Honor will reform the Oathpact and seal away the Fused. Only this time he will go to Braize along with all the Heralds. His presence will allow the Heralds to fight back against the Fused and give Kaladin enough space and time to perform Mental Therapy on them.

The back half of the books will deal with the scarcity of Stormlight, the Men who have bonded Odium’s spren like Aesudan, The introduction of Lifelight through Lift. A shadowy war with the Ghostbloods over Investiture. Now although Odium is free from the Rosharan System, he has also pretty much lost control over Roshar and the Fused. So he will return in the end back half for a Final Confrontation.

This is when Kaladin and the Heralds return from Braize. By the end of Book 10 Dalinar will break free of Odium. Since there are so many Corrupted spren and unmades like Sja-anat who go against Odium, perhaps by the end of Book 10 Kaladin will splinter Odium and take it up himself and become War. After all, Kaladin is described as a passionate man many times. This will set the stage for an overall cosmere wide conflict. Harmony vs War vs Autonomy vs Endowment etc…

To be honest i think that there is a lot of truth to this prediction. I especially agree that the final contest wont be the finale of book 5

LightRinger · March 9, 2024

On 3/3/2024 at 8:48 AM, Honors_Gun said:

One of them may redeem us.
And one of them will destroy us.

Note the word “may” in the first line and the word “will” in the second. One of the four will destroy everyone, but the person who redeems everyone may not be one of the four.

Edited March 9, 2024 by LightRinger
Removing excessive, commas.

The Stick · March 12, 2024

My major point that I have always seen is that Kaladin and Dalinar are both actually pretty poor Vessels for Honor. Both of them in my mind don't necessarily fit his Intent on just the right was. We also know that Odium claims, assuming he can be trusted that "Honor basically cares only for bonds, but not what they bond" or something along those lines.

This makes Kaladin seem to be a really terrible Vessel, because his whole thing is that he has to protect everything, and Windrunners are pretty emotional in general. Dalinar has more of a chance, but he doesn't necessarily adhere extremely strongly to every minute bond.

This is why if someone ascends, I propose the Ascension of Szeth to be the Vessel of the Shard of Honor.

Yes, you read that.

This is mainly based on the fact that I believe no character in any book is a more perfect Vessel for Honor that Szeth. He cares ultimately for bonds, after all, he went on a killing spree based solely on the Oathstone, motivated by his sense of Honor alone. We also know the Shin are an extremely bound people, with very specific rules that they would never break. I really just see Szeth as a perfect Vessel to ascend, because his adhesion to bonds in unmatched.

alder24 · March 12, 2024

9 hours ago, The Stick said:

My major point that I have always seen is that Kaladin and Dalinar are both actually pretty poor Vessels for Honor. Both of them in my mind don't necessarily fit his Intent on just the right was. We also know that Odium claims, assuming he can be trusted that "Honor basically cares only for bonds, but not what they bond" or something along those lines.

Keep in mind, if Odium were to be trusted, that was Tanavast's interpretation of Honor. A Vessel can interpret Shard's intent differently or even change it. Shardic intent is filtered through Vessel's perception. Honor held by someone like Kaladin or Dalinar would be interpreted differently and can include the meaning and value of bonds.

Dofurion · March 12, 2024

13 hours ago, The Stick said:

My major point that I have always seen is that Kaladin and Dalinar are both actually pretty poor Vessels for Honor. Both of them in my mind don't necessarily fit his Intent on just the right was. We also know that Odium claims, assuming he can be trusted that "Honor basically cares only for bonds, but not what they bond" or something along those lines.

I don't really agree about Kaladin, he is basically the character most aligned with Honor according to the WoB's we have today.

Quote

Nouf

What does it mean that Kaladin is close to Honor, and how did that factor into him staying conscious while every other Windrunner in the tower didn't?

Brandon Sanderson

The nuts and bolts answer is, Kaladin basically was in a place where he could say the next oath, and should have said the next oath, and indeed knew the next oath, and it was on his tongue, and he refused to. So basically he was as close to being the next level of Knights Radiant as a person could humanly get, because everyone considered him ready except himself. He even knew that he was ready, but by saying it, it would require him to give up something that was precious to him, which is his feeling guilty. A precious part of his identity as he saw it. And he would have to relinquish that. That's the bulk of it.

The other bulk of it is, the level to which Kaladin tries to protect, the level to which Kaladin exemplifies the Ideals of the Windrunners, and indeed of the way that Honor would have all Knights Radiant act, is so over the top, in alignment with the way Honor would like it to be, that it could even be considered unhealthy. Remember, Honor didn't always encourage healthy relationships with things like the power, particularly later in his existence. So either way, Kaladin is just kind of extra aligned with that intent, if that makes any sense.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

NH2316 · June 3, 2024

On 3/3/2024 at 12:48 PM, Honors_Gun said:

There is really nothing much to develop in Dalinar except for the Duel he has with Odium.

Agree with a lot of the others here - Dalinar hasn't finished his arc. My own thought is that his broader arc is the charge given to him at the very beginning of his story in WoK - "Unite them". He's spent several books grappling with what it means to be a diplomat and uniter of men rather than a warlord and destroyer, even if he mostly has the innate tools of the latter. He has an internal moral dilemma that I think of as a sort of a macro-level analogue to Kal's continued grappling with what it means to save a person by killing another (and when/whether killing to protect is ever justified or makes sense). For Dalinar, who spent his early years waging war and conquering in the (ostensible) name of uniting a nation, he has to grapple with what it means to be a warlord trying to unite societies and forge a peace. You could argue that he's united the radiants, but even in that it's not really true - he hasn't united the skybreakers, the dustbringers are sketchy parts of the alliance at best, and he's not united the singers and humans (perhaps most importantly). He's not done with his arc as "Uniter" yet, which I think could end with him uniting the peoples of Roshar as a single society (including the singers), setting up a unified planetary civilization and culture for the space age.....and/or dying in the attempt. Alternatively, there's also the theory out there that "Unite them" actually will refer to the splinters of Honor, and somehow he'll bond them and "re-form" Honor, which I don't know if I buy but....we'll see. Either way, Dalinar has more work to fulfill the charge given to him by Tanavast in WoK, in my opinion.

Unrelated, did not know about THIS . Wow that kind of blows my mind a bit. Very interesting and excited to see what comes of it.

On 3/4/2024 at 10:20 AM, alder24 said:

Yes and we know this is significant:

Hide contents

Winds Alight (paraphrased)

In SA the Stormfather refers to several people as "Child of Honor", but only Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast". Is there significance to that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, there is.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

Isilel · June 5, 2024

On 3/3/2024 at 6:48 PM, Honors_Gun said:

One of them may redeem us.
And one of them will destroy us.

Of course, a very important question here is who is "us". I see people applying it very broadly, but more likely IMHO it just means the Sleepless on Roshar, or a particular faction of them, or possibly even a single swarm. It could also mean the Ghostblood chapter on Roshar, if the swarm behind this text is the one who is a member.

On 3/8/2024 at 11:52 PM, Zrogezrg said:

The idea of ending supply Stormlight seems interesting, and something that could be left as a cliff-hanger, for Radians to learn to cope with during time skip.

Wouldn't it spell a massive die-off of everything on Roshar? Given that everything native was created to co-exist with it and even for humans and their animals, it granted them resistance to infectious disease. Sudden lack of stormlight for a lengthy period of time ought to result in deadly epidemics comparable to what happened when Europeans reached the Americas! No way to tell how it would affect spren either, they seem to feed on stormlight, though it isn't explicitly stated. I don't see Roshar surviving without it for a decade or more. A few months, maybe.

On 6/3/2024 at 7:53 PM, NH2316 said:

Either way, Dalinar has more work to fulfill the charge given to him by Tanavast in WoK, in my opinion.

Maybe? I feel that Kaladin is being positioned as Dalinar's successor and the one who will complete his work. A person can theoretically belong to 2 Orders and Syl has a very special relationship with the Stormfather, which may help her share Kaladin with him. Alternatively, with the discovery of anti-light she might die. Proximity to Nightblood could also prove unhealthy to her.

+Wax · June 5, 2024

Correct or not, I love the detail you’ve put to this.

Edited June 5, 2024 by Wax

codeg · July 6, 2024

Dalinar is not done

Unite them, at first we thought highprinces then countries then the three realms

I think it is much bigger. Maybe all the spren which are splinters of honor or uniting honor and cultivation but really I think he is supposed to unite the shards of adonalsium

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