If you were going to the Forests of Hell...

[Colors]

The Situation: Fun little thought exercise. Let's say you have to go to the forests of hell, and you need to survive there indefinitely. No living in forts, you have to survive, out in the forest, alone. I don't care why you're going, that's up to you. Luckily, you get to build yourself a Cosmere-themed super-self to help you survive, composed of a body, a skill-set, a power-set, and an item.

• For convenience sake suppose that if you have a way to make an income you can buy or trade for reasonable amounts of whatever investiture you need to fuel your powers and whatnot. (i.e. vials of metals, spheres of stormlight, breaths, etc.)

The Build: Your build will be composed of 4 parts, the body, skill set, power set, and item. They all must come from within the Cosmere. A further explanation of each will follow below.

Body - The physical body of a specific character, grants you physical attributes (i.e. strength, speed, agility, balance, endurance, etc) and 5 physical senses (sight, sound, smell, touch, taste). Your body does not grant you any powers. Must be humanoid (no dragons or Sleepless for example).

Skill Set - The knowledge, skills, wisdom and trained ability of a specific person. 

Power Set - The magical powers of a specific character. You automatically get the same skill (in using the powers specifically) as the character you choose. 

Item - An object that is magically or mechanically useful in some way. 

Limitations: 

• No Shards or Slivers
• No Fullborns
• No Steel Inquisitors
• If you choose a Knight Radiant power set you need to uphold the oaths. 
• If you choose a Knight Radiant power set you only get access to one of the surges so you have to choose.
• If you choose a Knight Radiant power set you have to choose between shardplate and a shardblade, you can't have both. 
• No Dragons
• No Hoid
• No Nightblood, 
• No Bans of Mourning
• No Lerasium Beads
• No Peacegiver's Treasure
• Spren cannot count as an item. 

My example build: Going to go this way since I think it's different than what most people would say and shows my love of Warbreaker.

Body: Denth
Skill Set: Vasher
Power Set: Jasnah Kholin (Shardblade)(Transformation)
Item: A steel bracer containing Vivenna's ~ 600 breaths from Warbreaker

Plan: Become a bounty hunter for money. Once I make a bit of money buy some stormlight. Use soulcasting to produce a few of my own "Kalad's Phantoms", using corpses from the local fort towns and soulcasting the stone around the skeletons. Soulcast myself silver weapons and silver weapons for my lifeless bodyguards. Awaken my cloak to alert me if shades are nearby and protect me. Awakened cloaks and lifeless don't have to sleep, so I can. Peak life sense should also help avoid shades. 

Follow the Simple Rules. My powers would be uniquely suited to subduing, or even killing (if necessary) bounties without drawing blood. Sneak in and awaken their clothes, nets, ropes, etc to bind them and have my lifeless carry them back to town where I can turn them in for the rewards. Buy food and supplies and more breaths and stormlight...cycle continues. 

Side Note: I'd also like to look into whether you could soulcast say a vine into chains and then Awaken the chain more easily because it was once living....just because that would be cool and fighting with an Awakened steel chain would be dope. 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2024 by Colors

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Interesting, alright I'll do my build.

Body: Kaladin (Cause why not?)

Skill Set: Nazh (Because he's Khriss's scout so he must know how to survive in the wilderness and especially against Shades)

Power Set: Sazed (Full Feruchemy, I'd rather not choose Allomancy for this cause then I'd eventually run out of metals)

Item: A copper Hemalurgic Spike that grants more intelligence, in survival your wits are your greatest asset, if you can have more than all the better.

[Duxredux he/him]

We've got a few people who are already quite well suited to survive or thrive on Threnody probably nearly indefinitely, with little to no modification.

 

Body: Ulaam

Skill Set: Ulaam

Power Set: TenSoon's double Blessings (only because I don't know what Ulaam's Blessing is)

Item: Hoid's black suit that he still hasn't given back

Ulaam's Cosmere aware enough that he probably understands the Simple Rules and how Shades work. A Kandra that may not need to sleep, can live to a thousand years, adapt their digestive tract to accommodate local vegetation, and doesn't particularly need typical heat or shelter with Ulaam's adaptations to reduce metabolism and could do quite well. Just walk quietly around and subsist off of local food material and avoid the Shades indefinitely. If necessary, work in town as a surgeon to get supplies like silver, but probably wouldn't need to. The suit was chosen so that if I ever really get bored, odds are Hoid will eventually come after me for the suit, particularly if I taunt him, so I should be able to leave whenever I want to with a bit of help from him or another worldhopper. If I actually knew what Ulaam's Blessing did, I might just keep it consistent, but as I don't, Potency and Presence are quite useful for someone expecting to generally just stay awake and keep moving to stay alive.

TSM spoilers:

Spoiler

Now if we're looking really far ahead, the biggest uncertainty is I will still be alive and kicking by the time of the Night Brigade and if that significantly affects my chances of survival. If I absolutely have to stay put and can't just sneak off when they develop starship tech, then things get even more dicey. Still, probably will last longer than anyone who chose a build with a shorter lifespan.

 

Theoretical, untested alternate:

Body: Yumi

Skill Set: Yumi

Power Set: Yumi

Item: Connection Medallion

 

Connect to Threnody and harness the power of Shades through rock stacking. ...yup, that's about it. Why merely survive when you can thrive?

[Colors]

50 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

We've got a few people who are already quite well suited to survive or thrive on Threnody probably nearly indefinitely, with little to no modification.

 

Body: Ulaam

Skill Set: Ulaam

Power Set: TenSoon's double Blessings (only because I don't know what Ulaam's Blessing is)

Item: Hoid's black suit that he still hasn't given back

Ulaam's Cosmere aware enough that he probably understands the Simple Rules and how Shades work. A Kandra that may not need to sleep, can live to a thousand years, adapt their digestive tract to accommodate local vegetation, and doesn't particularly need typical heat or shelter with Ulaam's adaptations to reduce metabolism and could do quite well. Just walk quietly around and subsist off of local food material and avoid the Shades indefinitely. If necessary, work in town as a surgeon to get supplies like silver, but probably wouldn't need to. The suit was chosen so that if I ever really get bored, odds are Hoid will eventually come after me for the suit, particularly if I taunt him, so I should be able to leave whenever I want to with a bit of help from him or another worldhopper. If I actually knew what Ulaam's Blessing did, I might just keep it consistent, but as I don't, Potency and Presence are quite useful for someone expecting to generally just stay awake and keep moving to stay alive.

TSM spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Now if we're looking really far ahead, the biggest uncertainty is I will still be alive and kicking by the time of the Night Brigade and if that significantly affects my chances of survival. If I absolutely have to stay put and can't just sneak off when they develop starship tech, then things get even more dicey. Still, probably will last longer than anyone who chose a build with a shorter lifespan.

 

Theoretical, untested alternate:

Body: Yumi

Skill Set: Yumi

Power Set: Yumi

Item: Connection Medallion

 

Connect to Threnody and harness the power of Shades through rock stacking. ...yup, that's about it. Why merely survive when you can thrive?

Nice, I like the creativity. This is why I thought this would be a fun topic. I don't think it would necessarily be hard to make a character who could survive, but seeing the different combinations people come up with and where their mind goes is the fun part. 

Alternative Build: Codename  - the Hermit

Body: Denth

Skill Set: Kaladin

Power Set: Lift (Progression/Shardblade)

Item: Unkeyed Metalmind with F-Bendalloy, F-Steel, F-Duralumin

The Plan: Be known as the friendly old Hermit at the edge of the woods who locals bring pies and pot roasts to every week because they know if they bring him food every week and are nice to him he will heal them back from almost certain death if something goes catastrophically wrong.  #insurance. 

F-Bendalloy to store all the food brought by the locals, then tap it as needed to power Lift's powers. F-duralumin to tap connection and build the trust relationship with the locals quickly and forge those connections strong. F-Steel because it's a good trump card if something goes wrong and I think I'll have a lot of time to meditate and store speed waiting around all day for people to bring me food. Kaladin skills for both excellent fighting prowess and surgeon knowledge to better my role as the local healer. 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2024 by Colors

[alder24]

Realistically, I would immediately freak out seeing Shades, accidentally scratch myself on some stick (curse you the Stick), spill blood and get overwhelmed by Shades. Dead within one minute.

But just for fun:

Body: doesn't matter really, average guy's body or whatever

Skill Set: Khriss

Power Set: Aluminum Gnat, Savant: WoB1, WoB2

Item: A Hemalurgic Spike containing a Divine Breath

My plan is to just build a hut, live quietly and peacefully in it, separated from all this nasty important stuff happening elsewhere, doing some science work in my free time. The forest and farming would be enough to supply me. Khrisse's knowledge would give me high Cosmere and Realmatic awareness so I know what's going on with all those Shades and what they are doing to souls. Being an Aluminum Savant is enough to fully protect me from withering and even cleanse my soul from it, so I don't really have to fear Shades. A Hemalurgic Spike with a Divine Breath gives me the 5th Heightening as a bonus to make me super invested (and give me immunity to toxins and illnesses) - investiture resist investiture, the more invested I am, the harder it is to turn me into a Shade. Plus stolen Divine Breaths doesn't need to feed on investiture so I don't have to worry about being eaten by my Divine Breath: WoB3. 

 

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Theoretical, untested alternate:

Body: Yumi

Skill Set: Yumi

Power Set: Yumi

Item: Connection Medallion

 

Connect to Threnody and harness the power of Shades through rock stacking. ...yup, that's about it. Why merely survive when you can thrive?

Oh yeah, that's brilliant!

[Colors]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Realistically, I would immediately freak out seeing Shades, accidentally scratch myself on some stick (curse you the Stick), spill blood and get overwhelmed by Shades. Dead within one minute.

But just for fun:

Body: doesn't matter really, average guy's body or whatever

Skill Set: Khriss

Power Set: Aluminum Gnat, Savant: WoB1, WoB2

Item: A Hemalurgic Spike containing a Divine Breath

My plan is to just build a hut, live quietly and peacefully in it, separated from all this nasty important stuff happening elsewhere, doing some science work in my free time. The forest and farming would be enough to supply me. Khrisse's knowledge would give me high Cosmere and Realmatic awareness so I know what's going on with all those Shades and what they are doing to souls. Being an Aluminum Savant is enough to fully protect me from withering and even cleanse my soul from it, so I don't really have to fear Shades. A Hemalurgic Spike with a Divine Breath gives me the 5th Heightening as a bonus to make me super invested (and give me immunity to toxins and illnesses) - investiture resist investiture, the more invested I am, the harder it is to turn me into a Shade. Plus stolen Divine Breaths doesn't need to feed on investiture so I don't have to worry about being eaten by my Divine Breath: WoB3. 

 

Oh yeah, that's brilliant!

Spiking out a divine breath is now one of my favorite things.

Minus of course the gruesome methods used to do so...

Edited February 29, 2024 by Colors

[Highprince10 he/him]

Body - Adolin Kholin 

Skill set- Sixith of Dusk

Power set- Nale (Gravitation) (Plate)

Item- Kings Drop for lots of stormlight

not only can I fly but Shardplate will definitely resist shades No one can survive better than sixith of Dusk and Adolin is the most fit non enhanced person I think we have seen.

[alder24]

42 minutes ago, Colors said:

Spiking out a divine breath is now one of my favorite things.

Minus of course the gruesome methods used to do so...

Minus? That's just the cherry on top  

[Colors]

1 hour ago, Highprince10 said:

Body - Adolin Kholin 

Skill set- Sixith of Dusk

Power set- Nale (Gravitation) (Plate)

Item- Kings Drop for lots of stormlight

not only can I fly but Shardplate will definitely resist shades No one can survive better than sixith of Dusk and Adolin is the most fit non enhanced person I think we have seen.

Any worries that Sixth's skill set isn't used to survival  without Sak and might be at a disadvantage because Sixth was used to using Sak as a crutch almost??

[Faerie Braids she/her]

Body - Vin

Skill Set - Yumi (This was originally Hoid, for his storytelling skills, but then I noticed he was restricted)

Power Set - Any Makay-im (Deepest Ones)

Item - Blessing of Presence spikes.

My plan is to just live in the ground, hiding from the shades, and surfacing every once in a while to provide art and entertainment in exchange for Voidlight.

[Highprince10 he/him]

25 minutes ago, Colors said:

Any worries that Sixth's skill set isn't used to survival  without Sak and might be at a disadvantage because Sixth was used to using Sak as a crutch almost??

I still think he is one of the best survivalist we have seen and his skills would be helpful moving careful Sak just helped I think without him Sixith would just be more careful

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Body- Tensoon

Skillset- Vasher

Powerset- Vin at the end of HoA just before Ascension. 

Item- a soulcaster with garnet, amethyst, and emerald or heliodor (depending which is best for food production) to create a boatload of silver projectiles and provisions. 

 

I really wanted to take a Kandra with feruchemy as well but the feruchemists we have seen on screen know nothing of the best metals. A feruchemist with all 16 is probably the best survival build out there. 

 

Not sure if kandra are allowed as they technically are a powerset but I would make the same argument for a Returned which is used. 

I also made an assumption that I will have access to stormlight often enough for the soulcaster to work as no stormlight also kills the radiants minus bondsmith with the ability to open perpendicularities. 

 

Question about shades... as I have never read the book. Do you think bronze would hear them?  Would copper help to hide oneself from them?  

 

Vin with a soulcaster and a silver koloss blade and silver coins/ ball bearings could probably last a while there i think... I honestly don't know though. 

 

[TheSurvivorofDeath]

Body: Tensoon’s strongman body from Shadows of Self.

Skills: Silence

Powers: The Breaths Vasher got from Vahr and basic Awakening knowledge, something like Vivenna by the end of Warbreaker.

Item: Hemalurgic Spike with a Divine Breath.

I get a strong body that isn’t as tall as a Rosharan one, so it’s got maneuverability in the Forests. Silence is the single most capable person at surviving in the Forests that we’ve ever seen, so her skills are perfect. The Breaths Vasher got from Vahr are several hundred strong, giving me somewhere around the fourth heightening. Give me the skill to use them fairly well, plus that investiture, and I’m doing great. I bet life sense could sense shades at least a little bit too. Add on the Divine Breath that doesn’t eat my Breaths, I get maybe all the way to the Sixth Heightening and an obscene amount of investiture to resist the shades. This seems like an optimal set up for the Forests.

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Question about shades... as I have never read the book. Do you think bronze would hear them?  Would copper help to hide oneself from them?  

They aren't kinetic investiture, only innate, you won't hear them with A-Bronze. Only maybe when they attacked someone causing withering, that might be a slight kinetic investiture happening. Not really useful. Life Sense would pick them up 100%.

A-copper would probably hide you from them. It can hide you from Life Sense. It would even hide everyone and everything in the Copperclouded area.

[Trusk'our he/him]

12 minutes ago, alder24 said:

A-copper would probably hide you from them. It can hide you from Life Sense. It would even hide everyone and everything in the Copperclouded area.

Seems like a build utilizing A-copper would be amazing for this scenario then, as you could break The Rules to your heart's content, but your enemies couldn't, meaning you don't have to limit your offensive abilities. 

What's more, you can run and set up cooking fires as long as you have some of the slowest burning metal in your gut.

Edited February 29, 2024 by Trusk'our

[alder24]

34 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Seems like a build utilizing A-copper would be amazing for this scenario then, as you could break The Rules to your heart's content, but your enemies couldn't, meaning you don't have to limit your offensive abilities. 

What's more, you can run and set up cooking fires as long as you have some of the slowest burning metal in your gut.

Well, not really. Shades move in random directions, they would still pass near you without sensing you are there. Spilling blood in the Forest would be fine as long as it happened inside the Coppercloud, but once you start moving away from the crime scene they would sense even the tiniest drop of blood on grass and every Shade around you would get enraged, racing to the spot and then just running around the area in fury - that would be very dangerous to you, they may just randomly pass through you in their rage, not knowing that you are there. 

If you don't respect the Forests of Hell, it will kill you - that's the number one rule. Just follow the Simple Rules. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Spilling blood in the Forest would be fine as long as it happened inside the Coppercloud, but once you start moving away from the crime scene they would sense even the tiniest drop of blood on grass and every Shade around you would get enraged, racing to the spot and then just running around the area in fury - that would be very dangerous to you, they may just randomly pass through you in their rage, not knowing that you are there. 

Don't they only get enraged at the act of drawing blood? Silence mentions that a nosebleed wouldn't be dangerous.

Coppermind wiki on Shades:

Quote

 Drawing the blood of another person enrages shades the quickest and causes them to be the most aggressive and dangerous. They will seek to kill the person who drew the blood first, but their rage puts anyone nearby in extreme danger. It is worth noting that blood produced by accidents or normal body processes does not enrage the shades.

Since this is the case, spilling blood in a Coppercloud and later leaving the area should be fine.

The same goes for fire; lighting the fire is what causes Shades to become enraged, and there are even people who sell previously lit flames, if I recall correctly.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Well, not really. Shades move in random directions, they would still pass near you without sensing you are there.

They do usually move around you as well (at least during the day), unless they're actively chasing you. 

Though you're right, running around without reason probably isn't a smart idea, Coppercloud or not.

[Duxredux he/him]

Here's another mostly unaltered answer. It's more dumb than the others:

Body: Shade

Skills: Shade

Powerset: Shade

Item: Yumi (whom I consume and become more powerful)

 

If you can't beat them, join 'em. I'm surviving just fine, I'm not bothered by the Shades at all. Sure I'm starting out dead, but that's a minor detail, it's not like I'm getting more dead. Hopefully the reinforcement from an incredibly powerful Investiture source will give me more resilience to silver from those humans who just can't follow the rules.

[Trusk'our he/him]

21 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Here's another mostly unaltered answer. It's more dumb than the others:

Body: Shade

Skills: Shade

Powerset: Shade

Item: Yumi (whom I consume and become more powerful)

 

If you can't beat them, join 'em. I'm surviving just fine, I'm not bothered by the Shades at all. Sure I'm starting out dead, but that's a minor detail, it's not like I'm getting more dead. Hopefully the reinforcement from an incredibly powerful Investiture source will give me more resilience to silver from those humans who just can't follow the rules.

Do Shades absorb Investiture from their victims? I thought that they just infected Threnodites and turned them into separate Invested beings.

Still, pretty fun build 

Edited March 1, 2024 by Trusk'our

[Colors]

7 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Body- Tensoon

Skillset- Vasher

Powerset- Vin at the end of HoA just before Ascension. 

Item- a soulcaster with garnet, amethyst, and emerald or heliodor (depending which is best for food production) to create a boatload of silver projectiles and provisions. 

 

I really wanted to take a Kandra with feruchemy as well but the feruchemists we have seen on screen know nothing of the best metals. A feruchemist with all 16 is probably the best survival build out there. 

 

Not sure if kandra are allowed as they technically are a powerset but I would make the same argument for a Returned which is used. 

I also made an assumption that I will have access to stormlight often enough for the soulcaster to work as no stormlight also kills the radiants minus bondsmith with the ability to open perpendicularities. 

 

Question about shades... as I have never read the book. Do you think bronze would hear them?  Would copper help to hide oneself fro

 

Vin with a soulcaster and a silver koloss blade and silver coins/ ball bearings could probably last a while there i think... I honestly don't know though. 

 

I think Bronze would seek them, but only when they are touching someone, as at that moment they are corrupting the victim and their investiture probably becomes kinetic.

40 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Do Shades absorb Investiture from their victims? I thought that they just infected Threnodites and turned them into separate Invested beings.

Still, pretty fun build 

Shades are similar to Nightblood in how their effects are described, kind of. 

I'd say a Shade's touch leeches and corrupts investiture from its victim.

It makes sense considering Threnodite's ability to leech investiture from each other, and presumably other living things.

Edited March 1, 2024 by Colors

[Duxredux he/him]

44 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Do Shades absorb Investiture from their victims? I thought that they just infected Threnodites and turned them into separate Invested beings.

Still, pretty fun build 

Eh, if that doesn't work then I'll take the King's Drop containing the Thrill and release it. Probably one of the worst items that could be brought to Threnody.

[..... he/him]

body: Tensoon

skills: Taln

powers: Taln: honorblade, herald

item: Ishars honorblade

inmortality, insane fighting skills, two honorblades, shapeshifting what could go wrong?

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Don't they only get enraged at the act of drawing blood? Silence mentions that a nosebleed wouldn't be dangerous.

Coppermind wiki on Shades:

Quote

 Drawing the blood of another person enrages shades the quickest and causes them to be the most aggressive and dangerous. They will seek to kill the person who drew the blood first, but their rage puts anyone nearby in extreme danger. It is worth noting that blood produced by accidents or normal body processes does not enrage the shades.

Since this is the case, spilling blood in a Coppercloud and later leaving the area should be fine.

The same goes for fire; lighting the fire is what causes Shades to become enraged, and there are even people who sell previously lit flames, if I recall correctly.

Then maybe it would be safer. 

[Colors]

I've always wondered how specifically Shades sensed blood being draw specifically and differentiate it from cold blood so to speak.

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 3/2/2024 at 3:37 PM, Colors said:

I've always wondered how specifically Shades sensed blood being draw specifically and differentiate it from cold blood so to speak.

It likely has to do with the Intent of the person drawing blood, which the Shades can sense, similar to the Awakened lock in TLM. This is also probably why a Coppercloud can block it, as its a magical sense rather than a physical one.