Harmony + Autonomy? An Endgame Theory

[HarbaughIsWhimsy]

Stomlight/Mistborn era 1/2 spoilers in here.

Had this theory stewing for a while and wanted to get it off my chest.

Disclaimer: I'm not fully up to speed on all WoBs/interviews and the main theories present from people. I'm also not going all out with finding quotes here, though I'm pretty sure you can do that.

So, the basis of my theory is that either era 4 or the back half of the stormlight archive will focus on a shardic conflict between the shards featured in Mistborn and Stormlight. Where all the shards on each side are combined: Honor, Odium, and Cultivation against Harmony and Autonomy, setting up a set of novels where there is no true 'bad guy' - both sides involve people trying to do what's best.

Let's take the Scadrial side of things first. We know Harmony has issues taking action, and era 3 will likely in some part involve him morphing into Discord. The main conflict will probably be with Autonomy. I think the endgame here will feature a solution that says "Hey, ya know what might help Harmony/Discord deal with not being able to take action, or taking too much action? Let's give him a little Autonomy!" Which sets up a nice play on words - what do you think you could call a nice, harmonious version of Autonomy? Freedom! In the end, my guess is that era 3 closes with (hopefully) Sazed being a vessel for all three of Ruin/Preservation/Autonomy, and being named Freedom. Scadrial will, thus, be primarily oriented towards letting different communities in the cosmere be free to grow on their own.

On the Roshar side, meanwhile, we already know what the combination of various parts of those three shards takes. We know Honor/Odium would likely be called War or something to that effect (in sprit at least; the names of the lights don't necessarily directly translate to shard names). What could War + Cultivation be? I'm going to go with Society, or Civilization, or something. The fact that Dalinar continuously gets told to Unite them can come into play too. The 'Them' in that quote continuously gets expanded - and there's no reason it couldn't continue in that way. In the end, I'm betting he unites the shards of Roshar themselves, and in doing so unites all their people's. Which sets Roshar up to be a group more focused on creating a big tent, and interacting with other worlds and such more to bring them into the fold themselves rather than letting them grow and develop alone.

Which really sets up nicely for a conflict between Roshar and Scadrial where none of the people are bad, and each side has the powers of three shards. One side wants to unite and bring people together, the other side wants to let each world have freedom to grow and change by themselves. Us readers will have sympathies on both sides, having been a part of both mentalities development, and neither side is truly wrong, setting up a very nice final conflict.

(As an aside, I'm not sure how or if other shards like Devotion/Sel and such play into this).

TLDR: Harmony/Discord + Autonomy = Freedom, Honor + Odium = War + Cultivation = Society/Civilization. Final conflict: Freedom vs Society.

[Ookla she/her]

2 hours ago, HarbaughIsWhimsy said:

Stomlight/Mistborn era 1/2 spoilers in here.

Had this theory stewing for a while and wanted to get it off my chest.

Disclaimer: I'm not fully up to speed on all WoBs/interviews and the main theories present from people. I'm also not going all out with finding quotes here, though I'm pretty sure you can do that.

So, the basis of my theory is that either era 4 or the back half of the stormlight archive will focus on a shardic conflict between the shards featured in Mistborn and Stormlight. Where all the shards on each side are combined: Honor, Odium, and Cultivation against Harmony and Autonomy, setting up a set of novels where there is no true 'bad guy' - both sides involve people trying to do what's best.

Let's take the Scadrial side of things first. We know Harmony has issues taking action, and era 3 will likely in some part involve him morphing into Discord. The main conflict will probably be with Autonomy. I think the endgame here will feature a solution that says "Hey, ya know what might help Harmony/Discord deal with not being able to take action, or taking too much action? Let's give him a little Autonomy!" Which sets up a nice play on words - what do you think you could call a nice, harmonious version of Autonomy? Freedom! In the end, my guess is that era 3 closes with (hopefully) Sazed being a vessel for all three of Ruin/Preservation/Autonomy, and being named Freedom. Scadrial will, thus, be primarily oriented towards letting different communities in the cosmere be free to grow on their own.

On the Roshar side, meanwhile, we already know what the combination of various parts of those three shards takes. We know Honor/Odium would likely be called War or something to that effect (in sprit at least; the names of the lights don't necessarily directly translate to shard names). What could War + Cultivation be? I'm going to go with Society, or Civilization, or something. The fact that Dalinar continuously gets told to Unite them can come into play too. The 'Them' in that quote continuously gets expanded - and there's no reason it couldn't continue in that way. In the end, I'm betting he unites the shards of Roshar themselves, and in doing so unites all their people's. Which sets Roshar up to be a group more focused on creating a big tent, and interacting with other worlds and such more to bring them into the fold themselves rather than letting them grow and develop alone.

Which really sets up nicely for a conflict between Roshar and Scadrial where none of the people are bad, and each side has the powers of three shards. One side wants to unite and bring people together, the other side wants to let each world have freedom to grow and change by themselves. Us readers will have sympathies on both sides, having been a part of both mentalities development, and neither side is truly wrong, setting up a very nice final conflict.

(As an aside, I'm not sure how or if other shards like Devotion/Sel and such play into this).

TLDR: Harmony/Discord + Autonomy = Freedom, Honor + Odium = War + Cultivation = Society/Civilization. Final conflict: Freedom vs Society.

Ooh! I like that! Now, I'm no Cosmere scholar, but that seems like a very logical direction for things to go, given recent Cosmere happenings. The only issue I can think of involves Sunlit Man spoilers, so I'll leave it out of this, but other than that one thing (which could be explained away fairly easily anyway), this theory seems pretty solid. 

[RoyalBeeMage he/him]

12 hours ago, HarbaughIsWhimsy said:

(As an aside, I'm not sure how or if other shards like Devotion/Sel and such play into this).

the devotion/dominion could be loyalty. outherwise i think this theory makes the most sense based on what we have seen so far.

[alder24]

12 hours ago, HarbaughIsWhimsy said:

Scadrial will, thus, be primarily oriented towards letting different communities in the cosmere be free to grow on their own. 

[...]

In the end, I'm betting he unites the shards of Roshar themselves, and in doing so unites all their people's. Which sets Roshar up to be a group more focused on creating a big tent, and interacting with other worlds and such more to bring them into the fold themselves rather than letting them grow and develop alone.

[...]

Which really sets up nicely for a conflict between Roshar and Scadrial where none of the people are bad, and each side has the powers of three shards. One side wants to unite and bring people together, the other side wants to let each world have freedom to grow and change by themselves. Us readers will have sympathies on both sides, having been a part of both mentalities development, and neither side is truly wrong, setting up a very nice final conflict.

(As an aside, I'm not sure how or if other shards like Devotion/Sel and such play into this).

TLDR: Harmony/Discord + Autonomy = Freedom, Honor + Odium = War + Cultivation = Society/Civilization. Final conflict: Freedom vs Society.

Have you read Six of the Dusk novella and its unpublished prequel chapter (SotD2)? SotD spoilers:

Spoiler

Scadrial isn't doing that, Scadrial is straight up colonizing other planets, just like Roshar is. Scadrial is more deceiving and malicious, but Roshar isn't that much better.

Quote

“It’s a trap, you see,” he whispered. “The Ones Above have rules. They can’t trade with us until we’re advanced enough. Just like a man can’t, in good conscience, bargain with a child until they are grown. And so, they have left their machines for us to discover, to prod at and poke. The dead man was a ruse. Vathi was meant to have those machines.
“There will be explanations, left as if carelessly, for us to dig into and learn. And at some point in the near future, we will build something like one of their machines. We will have grown more quickly than we should have. We will be childlike still, ignorant, but the laws from Above will let these visitors trade with us. And then, they will take this land for themselves.”
That was what he should have said. Protecting Patji was impossible. Protecting the Aviar was impossible. Protecting their entire world was impossible. Why hadn’t he explained it? [...]
“We found instructions in the machine,” Vathi whispered. “A manual on its workings, left there as if accidentally by someone who worked on it before. The manual is in their language, but the smaller machine I have…”
“It translates.”
“The manual details how the machine was constructed,” Vathi says. “It’s so complex I can barely comprehend it, but it seems to explain concepts and ideas, not just give the workings of the machine. [...]
“We’ll lose it all. We can’t fight them. They’ll find an excuse, they’ll seize the Aviar. It makes perfect sense. The Aviar use the worms. We use the Aviar. The Ones Above use us. It’s inevitable, isn’t it?”

The Ones Above have some laws preventing them from directly seizing control over the planet or directly trading with people of this planet. They need The First of the Sun to be advanced enough to start engaging with them more openly and take control over their planet. Those laws could come only from two sources: either form the intergalactic committee or from Shards directly. Their actions and motives are clearly antagonistic.

Moreover Patji is an Avatar of Autonomy (like Telsin), already being alive during SA (The Second Oathbringer Letter). During SotD its environment still encourages Autonomous behavior, it is still treated as a living god and if Harmony+Autonomy was a thing, then Scadrians would not need to colonize the planet in such a brutal way as they could use Patji to assist them. 

SotD2 spoilers:

Spoiler

Quote

"It is good," the second [Scadrian] alien said, speaking the language of the homeisles as easily as if she had been born to it. "You are finally listening to reason. Our masters do not have infinite patience."
"We are accustomed to impatient masters," Vathi said, voice smooth and confident. "We have survived their tests for millennia."
The male laughed. "Your masters? The gods who are islands?"
"Just be ready to accept our... installation when we return, yes?" The female said. "No masks, no deception."

[...]

"We are conquered," he said, turning from the window to regard her. He cared not for the others. But she didn't just grow quiet when he spoke. She listened. "The plague that took Kokerlii. How long did they sit in their ship up there, watching as our Aviar died?"
"They didn't have the medicine on hand," said Third of Waves, the company officer of medical industry, a squat man with a bright-red Aviar that let him see colors invisible to everyone else. "They had to wait to fetch it."
Dusk remained quiet. "You imply," Vathi said, "that they deliberately delayed giving us the medicine until Aviar had died. What proof do you have?"
"The darkout last month," Dusk said. The Ones Above were quick to share their more common technologies. Lights that burned cold and true. Fans to circulate air in the muggy homeisle summers. Ships that could move at several times the speed of the steam-powered ones. But all these ran on power sources supplied from Above, and those power sources deactivated if opened.
"Their fish farms are a boon to our oceans," said the company's Secretary of Supply. "But without the nutrients sold by the Ones Above, we wouldn't be able to keep the farms running."
"The medicine is invaluable," said Third of Waves. "<Infant> mortality has plummeted. Literally thousands of our people live because of what the Ones Above have traded us."
"When they were late with the power shipment last month," Dusk said, "the city slowed to a crawl. And we know that was intentionally, from the accidentally leaked comments. They wanted to enforce to us their power. They will do it again." Everyone fell silent, thinking as he wished they'd do more often.

[...]

"You have only one gem with which to bargain, People of the Isles," the [Rosharan] alien said. "You cannot withhold it. You can merely determine to whom you offer it. If you do not accept my protection, you will become a vassal to these Ones Above. Your planet will become a farming station, like many others, intended to feed their expansion efforts. Your birds will be stripped from you the moment it becomes possible to do so."
"And you offer something better?" Vathi asked.
"My people will give you back one of a hundred birds born," the armored figure said, "and will allow you to fight alongside us, if you wish, to gain status and elevation."
"One in a hundred!" Second of Saplings said, the outburst unsettling his gray-and-brown Aviar. "Robbery!"
"Choose. Cooperation, slavery, or death."
"I do not play games," the alien said. "I will not dance with words like the others do. You will accept my offer, or you will not. If you do not, if you join them, then I will have legal right to consider you my enemies." 

[...]

Sak chirped. And a body appeared on the table in front of Vathi. Dusk frowned. Then that frown deepened, because the corpse was not his. [...]
Dusk shook his head, rounding the corpse. "Body wears a uniform. One of theirs, the Ones Above. There are symbols on some of the patches and awards. It appears as if prepared for burial at sea. I cannot read the alien writing." [...]
Dusk copied the letters on the uniform's most prominent patch. "Vathi," read the Secretary of Supply, "Colonial Governor of the occupied planet First of the Sun." [...]
"Looks like a commendation for valor," the woman replied, "for putting down what was called the Rebellion of '05. The others are similar."
Dusk nodded. So if this was a glimpse of the future, it was what Vathi would be when she died, a servant of the Ones Above, apparently having turned his people's military against rebels who didn't agree.

Scadrians have already colonized the planet, they gave them technology and resources to subjugate them and make them dependent on Scadrian and Scadrian alone. They are planning to expand their control and take everything The First of the Sun has to offer and exploit its natural resources, suppressing dozens of rebellions with an iron fist. They will be openly calling it an occupation. Not to mention an openly dismissive attitude towards Patji, laughing at it - they wouldn't do that if Patji belonged to their Shard. Rosharans want to do the same, with a bit more favorable trade-off. Either way the future Scadrial and Roshar are aggressively expansive, with no regards and respect to native population and their freedom and society. There is nothing in the actions of Scadrians that would encourage native populations to grow on their own, instead they force progress and occupation over them. Rosharans on the other hand have the mentality of "either you're with us or against us" and straight up threaten others into subjugation to prevent Scadrial from owning them. They don't want to unite them or free them, they both want to own them - those are just resources for Scadrial and Roshar in the upcoming conflict between two superpowers.

 

 

[Duxredux he/him]

I'm going to quibble over some of these details. I'll just quote you and highlight my responses.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Have you read Six of the Dusk novella and its unpublished prequel chapter (SotD2)? SotD spoilers:

  Hide contents

Scadrial isn't doing that, Scadrial is straight up colonizing other planets, just like Roshar is. Scadrial is more deceiving and malicious, but Roshar isn't that much better.

The Ones Above have some laws preventing them from directly seizing control over the planet or directly trading with people of this planet. They need The First of the Sun to be advanced enough to start engaging with them more openly and take control over their planet. Those laws could come only from two sources: either form the intergalactic committee or from Shards directly. Their actions and motives are clearly antagonistic.

Moreover Patji is an Avatar of Autonomy (like Telsin), already being alive during SA (The Second Oathbringer Letter). During SotD its environment still encourages Autonomous behavior, it is still treated as a living god and if Harmony+Autonomy was a thing, then Scadrians would not need to colonize the planet in such a brutal way as they could use Patji to assist them. 

SotD2 spoilers:

  Hide contents

Scadrians have already colonized the planet, they gave them technology and resources to subjugate them and make them dependent on Scadrian and Scadrian alone. They are planning to expand their control and take everything The First of the Sun has to offer and exploit its natural resources, suppressing dozens of rebellions with an iron fist. They will be openly calling it an occupation. Not to mention an openly dismissive attitude towards Patji, laughing at it - they wouldn't do that if Patji belonged to their Shard. Rosharans want to do the same, with a bit more favorable trade-off. Either way the future Scadrial and Roshar are aggressively expansive, with no regards and respect to native population and their freedom and society. There is nothing in the actions of Scadrians that would encourage native populations to grow on their own, instead they force progress and occupation over them. Rosharans on the other hand have the mentality of "either you're with us or against us" and straight up threaten others into subjugation to prevent Scadrial from owning them. They don't want to unite them or free them, they both want to own them - those are just resources for Scadrial and Roshar in the upcoming conflict between two superpowers.

There's a few assumptions being made here. First, there's the assumption that Autonomy's Avatars would either be subservient to or incorporated into a combined Harmony/Autonomy Shard. There's an irony here that if Harmony were to absorb Bavadin's portion of Autonomy, then I almost guarantee that balances of Shardic Intent would not be equal. There's already the imbalance between Ruin and Preservation, add in Autonomy who has repeatedly splintered herself and that portion would be even less than Preservation. This isn't to say that that a dose of Autonomy wouldn't help Harmony, but considering the Investiture literally repels each other and explodes violently when combined there would need to be considerable work to make that reconciliation work. The thing is, if it does work, and it helps Sazed break his internal deadlock, he doesn't need the entirety of Autonomy to get that. What would happen if Harmony were to absorb Trell as a separate entity from the Autonomy located on Taldain? For nearly any other Shard, I'm not sure if that would work, but it might for Autonomy (if Autonomy even lets itself become subservient to anything else). Basically, we could have a three way war between Autonomy, the Rosharan Shard(s) and a combined Harmony+Autonomy, because Autonomy is well, Autonomy and splits herself.

I'll also note that Dusk is paranoid and perhaps for good reason, but not everything that was done necessarily was malicious. For example the vehicle power sources deactivating when you open them up? For something powered by Ettmetal that might be what you call a safety feature. Sure, it could be a monopoly, but I'm not convinced that some of the resources distributed can actually be cultivated on First of the Sun. Now ideally you help them invent methods that let them build locally, but I have no idea how that tech works or the energy density requirements to make it viable. With the medicine for the Aviar, I have no idea if Unsealed Goldminds work for animals, but developing medicine for an alien ecology is definitely not equivalent to developing lighting, especially when you have a large variety of birds that are potential Aviar. Figuring out a sustainable economic infrastructure for an alien ecology and planet sounds really tough and expensive, and you don't have to be antagonistic to not make a planet a charity case. 

There's also the assumption that this late into the Cosmere that Sak's future sight, particularly visions decades into the future, is to be trusted. Dusk trusts Sak implicitly as he's been trained and conditioned to do so, but then he doesn't know that future sight can be distorted or impeded. He hasn't gotten Hoid's lecture to be wary of anyone who claims to see the future. There's an irony that Dusk who is so paranoid, has something he that trusts with his life that is not necessarily stable at all. 

 

Now Dusk could be right about everything, I'm just reserving judgment on his paranoia and some of the other ideas. It is true that the developments we see thus far are not indicative of a Freedom Shard promoting freely developed local cultures though, so that's spot on, I'm just not sure on the rest of the reasoning.

 

 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

I'm going to quibble over some of these details. I'll just quote you and highlight my responses.

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Oh no, please edit your response out of the quote box, because expanding a spoiler box inside a quote box breaks the boxes and it can't be read, screenshot attached: 

Spoiler

 

Edit: I've managed to read your post, here is my response, SotD spoilers:

Spoiler

48 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

There's a few assumptions being made here. First, there's the assumption that Autonomy's Avatars would either be subservient to or incorporated into a combined Harmony/Autonomy Shard. [...] Autonomy who has repeatedly splintered herself

They would be incorporated because Avatars still are part of their Shards. They might want to act autonomously, but a Shard can always take their power away, as seen with Telsin. Avatars aren't autonomous like Splinters are. Patji is part of Autonomy. Autonomy doesn't Splinter herself. Avatars aren't Splinters.

Spoiler

Alex M

What's the difference between avatar and Splinter?

Brandon Sanderson

These are all very weird terms that I'm just using.

*mistakenly answering for Sliver* A Sliver is a person who has held the power of a Shard, and then let go of it. A briefly held time, holding the infinite power of a Shard, but no longer does. So what does that do? That changes your soul, and leaves markers on it. It's a real physiological thing.

An avatar is... a Shard manifesting a semi-autonomous piece of themselves that is still connected to who they are. An avatar, for instance, of Autonomy - depending on how Autonomy creates that avatar - might know, might not know, but they are still an aspect, they are still part of Autonomy. And when you get down to it a part of them knows that, and it's almost a god roleplaying, but in a way that only a Shard, or a lowercase-g god in the Cosmere, can do.

Brandon Sanderson

*realizes that he answered for Sliver earlier, and clarifies*

A Splinter is a piece of a Shard that is fully autonomous, where an avatar is not. So something that is Splintered does not consider itself - and would not be considered by the definitions  - an actual piece of it [the Shard], and has free will. So once it has free will, and/or could develop free will (because some of the Splinters haven't gotten there yet), but is fully cut off from the direct control and self-identity of the Shard, then it is called a Splinter.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

52 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

There's already the imbalance between Ruin and Preservation, add in Autonomy who has repeatedly splintered herself and that portion would be even less than Preservation.

True, I personally think that Sazed didn't properly merge Shards, he is keeping them separate and that's where his problems with Harmony and inactions came. He needs to truly merge them together - just like lights can be merged together. Adding Autonomy into the mix might help him because he will no longer be Harmony and the Intent of the new Shard might not force balance upon him. Discord in my opinion will be beneficial because it isn't about balance. 

56 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

but considering the Investiture literally repels each other and explodes violently when combined there would need to be considerable work to make that reconciliation work.

You know Ruin and Preservation's investiture also repelled and pushed each other apart and yet they were combined into "one" in Sazed? 

59 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

What would happen if Harmony were to absorb Trell as a separate entity from the Autonomy located on Taldain?

Trell needs to be Splintered from Autonomy first. 

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

I'll also note that Dusk is paranoid and perhaps for good reason, but not everything that was done necessarily was malicious. For example the vehicle power sources deactivating when you open them up?

The examples given in SotD and SotD2 are clearly intentional and with malicious intent. They are clever about it but this is clear. The machine in SotD was somewhat activated when they opened it, inside they found a fully detailed manual - not about how to operate it, but how to build it. It wasn't for safety, it was planted to justify colonization of this planet. SotD2:

Spoiler

Don't forget that Scadrians purposefully cause a blackout to remind them who's in power - they've admitted it. They are bad guys as far as the First of the Sun is concerned.

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

There's also the assumption that this late into the Cosmere that Sak's future sight, particularly visions decades into the future, is to be trusted. Dusk trusts Sak implicitly as he's been trained and conditioned to do so, but then he doesn't know that future sight can be distorted or impeded.

Sak's future sight is more like Atium rather than Renarin's visions and Dusks knows it. He knows it shows him possibilities, not certain future, he knows it doesn't have to be true but it is possible. Combine it with Rosharan's ultimatum, Scadrian's behavior in both novellas and we have a solid picture of future Scadrians who aren't really nice, who don't promote freedom like this theory suggests - and that's all that matters in this context.

 

Edited January 30 by alder24

[MistbornMathematician]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:41 PM, HarbaughIsWhimsy said:

TLDR: Harmony/Discord + Autonomy = Freedom, Honor + Odium = War + Cultivation = Society/Civilization. Final conflict: Freedom vs Society.

Currently, I think that we're more likely to see very cosmic stakes to the final battle. Mercy seems likely to be a major threat, with an "I desire an end to feeling" sort of attempted mass murder and Sazed being creeped out, but I think the final "enemy" Shard will be Wisdom/Prudence. 

Spoiler

Paleo (paraphrased)

Is Wisdom a Shard? If so, how bad does it want to survive?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There is a Shard with a similar intent. The Shard has realized that survival might not be the most desirable/important.

Footnote: Paleo later asked Brandon for clarification on this one because he couldn't quite remember the survival part when he wrote it down. Brandon stressed again what the Shard has realized.
Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

Given how Brandon talks about stakes and the whole "is the world not in peril? imperil it!" thing, the main Cosmere ending with a big fight vs a truly omnicidal "I thought long and hard about it and the most prudent course of action is the end of existence itself" Shard seems quite fitting to me. 

[AFdooda]

My only concern is with the chronology.

Big epic Shard fight yes, me like...

But Scadrial has a whole load of books that take the world through many levels of technology and Roshar is basically still medieval (book-wise).

I suppose Shards (as in Knights) helps but at what stage would Roshar and Scadrial meet? If Scadrial was making interstellar journeys and Roshar hasn't even worked out gunpowder that could present a problem.

Of course fantasy glowing medieval knights vs metal-eating space wizards would be great and very Cosmere but the two series just seem very far apart chronologically speaking.

[RoyalBeeMage he/him]

you have a point there. we know that in just 4 years navani was able to make a flighing car. can scadrial do that? i feel that they are both tenologicaly advanced but in there own way. besides i doubt that Brandon would make 2 books showcasing the final fight(one for each side). i think that it is more likely that he will just jump perspectives within the same book. by the time era 4 comes around who know the level roshar will be at. i say lets just wait till sa 6 releases before we make any final say on chronologically.

[KelsierFortnite he/him]

You all are forgetting Taldain. The Darkside had guns in the White Sand graphic novels, which are set chronologically before anything else in the cosmere. Of course, since Autonomy isolated it, we haven't seen much from them other than Khriss. However, they are likely more advanced than even Scadrial.

Edited February 1 by KelsierFortnite

[bmcclure7]

On 1/29/2024 at 5:41 PM, HarbaughIsWhimsy said:

Stomlight/Mistborn era 1/2 spoilers in here.

Had this theory stewing for a while and wanted to get it off my chest.

Disclaimer: I'm not fully up to speed on all WoBs/interviews and the main theories present from people. I'm also not going all out with finding quotes here, though I'm pretty sure you can do that.

So, the basis of my theory is that either era 4 or the back half of the stormlight archive will focus on a shardic conflict between the shards featured in Mistborn and Stormlight. Where all the shards on each side are combined: Honor, Odium, and Cultivation against Harmony and Autonomy, setting up a set of novels where there is no true 'bad guy' - both sides involve people trying to do what's best.

Let's take the Scadrial side of things first. We know Harmony has issues taking action, and era 3 will likely in some part involve him morphing into Discord. The main conflict will probably be with Autonomy. I think the endgame here will feature a solution that says "Hey, ya know what might help Harmony/Discord deal with not being able to take action, or taking too much action? Let's give him a little Autonomy!" Which sets up a nice play on words - what do you think you could call a nice, harmonious version of Autonomy? Freedom! In the end, my guess is that era 3 closes with (hopefully) Sazed being a vessel for all three of Ruin/Preservation/Autonomy, and being named Freedom. Scadrial will, thus, be primarily oriented towards letting different communities in the cosmere be free to grow on their own.

On the Roshar side, meanwhile, we already know what the combination of various parts of those three shards takes. We know Honor/Odium would likely be called War or something to that effect (in sprit at least; the names of the lights don't necessarily directly translate to shard names). What could War + Cultivation be? I'm going to go with Society, or Civilization, or something. The fact that Dalinar continuously gets told to Unite them can come into play too. The 'Them' in that quote continuously gets expanded - and there's no reason it couldn't continue in that way. In the end, I'm betting he unites the shards of Roshar themselves, and in doing so unites all their people's. Which sets Roshar up to be a group more focused on creating a big tent, and interacting with other worlds and such more to bring them into the fold themselves rather than letting them grow and develop alone.

Which really sets up nicely for a conflict between Roshar and Scadrial where none of the people are bad, and each side has the powers of three shards. One side wants to unite and bring people together, the other side wants to let each world have freedom to grow and change by themselves. Us readers will have sympathies on both sides, having been a part of both mentalities development, and neither side is truly wrong, setting up a very nice final conflict.

(As an aside, I'm not sure how or if other shards like Devotion/Sel and such play into this).

TLDR: Harmony/Discord + Autonomy = Freedom, Honor + Odium = War + Cultivation = Society/Civilization. Final conflict: Freedom vs Society.

 Funny my theory was exactly the opposite it is adding anatomy will turn harmony into Discord. 

 After all what is harmony but 2 things working together. What is Discord but 2 things working independently.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

On 1/30/2024 at 12:47 PM, alder24 said:

Don't forget that Scadrians purposefully cause a blackout to remind them who's in power - they've admitted it. They are bad guys as far as the First of the Sun is concerned.

Sunlit Man, MB (all), Stormlight (all)

Spoiler

I think its important to remember that Scadrians encompasses a large group of people. From what we see in SotD, those are malwish, not elendelians. Not that it matters too much in the grand scheme of things, but the followers of Harmony (elendelians?) have not been seen colonizing or the like. Even in sunlit man we see that the scadrians are malwish. 

 

I think mb3 or mb4 will have the malwish either leaving scadrial completely or there will be distinct groups of Scadrians. I really dont see Elendelians and the Malwish forming into one cohesive nation. 

 

Similarly, if Odium stays on Roshar (which he has to at this point) there would be distinct factions of Rosharans that are colonizing planets. We have only seen this one example of Rosharan colonization and that listener was using voidlight / warlight, so are clearly on the side of Odium (or the shard combo Odium joins). There could certainly still be Cultivations / Honors people that are not as malicious as what we see in SotD.