Commander Spoonface Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) So, Windrunner posted about this in "Other Stuff" in a post called "New Cosmere Novella", and we also got talking about it on the thread "Unknown Shards". Appearantly, this is a new Shardbased magic system known as Engraving. There's already a thread for speculation about the novella that could be based on this. This thread is a place to speculate about the system itself. I already posted my primary speculation in "Unknown Shards" so I'll just copy-paste it here: If there is a Splinter powering Engraving, is it possible that it's a splinter of a shard we've already seen? If you consider it, it could work with a number of Shards: Endowment- Perhaps when you Engrave something, you make it your own somehow. You are, in a sense, Endowing it with some part of yourself. If it is possible for this process to occur on the same object multiple times, it might also fall under the domain of Cultivation. Dominion- It is also possible that, when you Engrave something, you are gaining control over some power it possess, a control you lose when another person Engraves it. Think Picture of Dorian Gray. This makes sense, seeing as we already know that Dominion was splintered by Odium at some point. Ruin- Another possibility is that act of Engraving permanently transfers some power to the Engraver from the object, with loss occurring. This appeals to me because by carving your own signature into a piece of artwork, you are essentially Ruining it. You could probably make a half-decent case for Odium, too, or maybe even Preservation. These are the ones I think most likely. This is, of course, operating on the assumption that Engraving is powered by a splinter, something brought up earlier in that thread. It was also suggested by ReaderAt2046 that it was a splinter of a new shard, known as Deception. So I ask, what do ya'll think of this? What does Engraving do, exactly? Does it only work on art, and if so, what makes something art? Edited March 20, 2012 by Commander Spoonface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Sounds good! *didn't record/take notes, so this is all based off of my memory of what happened almost a month ago* While he was in Taiwan, people had heard that he wrote a short story/novelette(don't remember which) on the way home from France, and they wanted to know what he was going to write on the plane home from there While there, he heard a story of some emperor that, whenever he saw something that he liked, he would have his imperial seal stamped on it. Even if it was a piece of jewelry/jade or something, he'd have the seal carved in. This became a magic system. So, if you know enough about a piece of stone (like a part of a wall or something) including what kind it is, where it came from, the entire history of it, then you can convince that rock that if came from somewhere else, say a quarry that had a flaw/fault in it, and depending on your knowledge/persuasiveness you can break through. The story started with a girl in jail, put in a cell designed for these, I forget the term, engravers or something. Each brick in the cell was a different kind of stone, and in order to break out she needed to craft a symbol to convince the wall that a) it was one unit, and B ) it had a flaw, in order to break out and avoid her imminent execution. Then and oldish guy showed up *hint hint* and said she was wasting her time, said even if she identified every pebble of the wall and knew its origin it was still useless, because the cell was designed specifically to keep her busy until she died.Then he alluded to the possibility that he got her captured, because she had been caught stealing the thing he had already stolen and he saw an easy scapegoat. Darn it, it is pretty much fuzzy after that. I'm pretty sure there wasn't too much more to the story, right now Brandon is up to his ears in WoT and he had only had 2 half hour chunks to work on the story. If I can think of anything else I'll post it, after the reading he had a really short Q&A. EDIT: Yeah, I'm pretty terrible with summaries :/ Here's the description too for any newcomers. One obvious thing to notice here is that this is likely another Form-Based Investiture, because is seems the symbol shape is integral to what you want the rock to change to. It also seems like you are using your Cognitive aspect to alter the Cognitive aspect of the stone wall. Once the Cognitive aspect has been altered, it now believes it came from somewhere with a flaw, the Physical aspect changes to mirror it, by giving itself said flaw. The spiritual energy you are channeling through the symbol likely is what powers the actual Physical change that is occurring. If we want to go to the Three part of magic it goes. Physical-Shape of the Symbol Cognitive-Knowledge and Persuasiveness Spiritual-Investiture drawn through and shaped by the symbol to alter the Physical Aspect of the rock This hearkens back to Awakening, with the the symbol being more general like a Command, but the persuasiveness and knowledge more complex, like the Command-Visualization. If I had to pick a Shard I'd say either Endowment, because it fits with my Endowment theory, or either Dominion or Devotion, because we have seen a similar Form-Based Investiture before. However, it is difficult to speculate on, because the intent only has power over how the magic is obtained, not what it does. Edited March 20, 2012 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Woo! New magic system! Seems like a cross between Aons, Soulcasting and Awakening. I like this one, seems like it could have some interesting applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanist Lupus Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Here's the description too for any newcomers. One obvious thing to notice here is that this is likely another Form-Based Investiture, because is seems the symbol shape is integral to what you want the rock to change to. It also seems like you are using your Cognitive aspect to alter the Cognitive aspect of the stone wall. Once the Cognitive aspect has been altered, it now believes it came from somewhere with a flaw, the Physical aspect changes to mirror it, by giving itself said flaw. The spiritual energy you are channeling through the symbol likely is what powers the actual Physical change that is occurring. If we want to go to the Three part of magic it goes. Physical-Shape of the Symbol Cognitive-Knowledge and Persuasiveness Spiritual-Investiture drawn through and shaped by the symbol to alter the Physical Aspect of the rock This hearkens back to Awakening, with the the symbol being more general like a Command, but the persuasiveness and knowledge more complex, like the Command-Visualization. If I had to pick a Shard I'd say either Endowment, because it fits with my Endowment theory, or either Dominion or Devotion, because we have seen a similar Form-Based Investiture before. However, it is difficult to speculate on, because the intent only has power over how the magic is obtained, not what it does. Is the magic system definitely part of the Cosmere, or could it be separate, like Alcatraz or I hate dragons? If it's separate, it doesn't have to necessarily conform to the same investiture rules as the rest do, although I think it's likely that it would anyway, as that's the way Brandon conceptualizes his major magic systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 It's confirmed by Peter, we knew it was cosmere before we knew what it was about. Did anyone go? Did anyone hear Brandon read the first scene of a new Cosmere story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm pretty sure Engraving is a Splinter magic because it only works on stone. I'm guessing the Shard is Deception for a bunch of tiny reasons: 1. The magic tricks the stone into thinking it's from somewhere else. 2. Deception also sounds like a good shard to fuel Lightweaving. 3. Hoid's title is the Liar of Partinel. 4. Deception sounds like a Shard name. 5. This would give us a new Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm not entirely sure why points 2-5 point towards a splinter of deception... On 1. The intent of the shard only affects how the magic is obtained not really how it may be used. On the stone thing, most of the cosmeres magic is quite similar, limitations make for more interesting uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyssie95 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Woo! New magic system! Seems like a cross between Aons, Soulcasting and Awakening. I like this one, seems like it could have some interesting applications. The main application in the story itself was theiving. The viewpoint character was locked up for stealing a... I think it was a gem. Turns out Hoid helped her with some of the planning, but only because he stole it first and swapped it with a fake, and stealing the fake is what landed her in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm not entirely sure why points 2-5 point towards a splinter of deception... On 1. The intent of the shard only affects how the magic is obtained not really how it may be used. On the stone thing, most of the cosmeres magic is quite similar, limitations make for more interesting uses. Points 2-5 are evidence that there is a Shard called Deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Spoonface Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I think that a splinter of Endowment or Dominion are the most likely options, as I said earlier. Though, why does only affecting stone make it weaker than a magic system powered by a full shard? Allomancy can only affect metal, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I think that a splinter of Endowment or Dominion are the most likely options, as I said earlier. Though, why does only affecting stone make it weaker than a magic system powered by a full shard? Allomancy can only affect metal, after all. Allomancy can affect a lot more than metal. It also affects time, emotions, and the body. Furthermore, it can sense or hide itself, and can alter its own energy flows, and gives the power to see through time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Like I said in the thread Unknown Shards, I'm not sure a Splinter could power a magic system by itself, or if one can, it either would be a weak magic system or a very powerful Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I said this in the other thread as well but I'll repeat it Aons work perfectly fine and Devotion was splintered, I think a full shard is only necessary for the initial mutation of sDNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 But all of the Splinters are on the same planet. I think it would be different, probably weaker, if only one Splinter was present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Could be, we don't really have enough information to justify it, but then I don't think I could ever have enough information about the cosmere considering that the shards don't actually power investiture themselves (except in a few rare cases) they basically just act as gateways, I don't think the number of splinters present would influence that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 True, I think we need to learn more about Splinters and this magic system before we can decide what Shard it is. But that might not happen, so I'm going with a weak Shard we don't know about for the powerer of this magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Like I said in the thread Unknown Shards, I'm not sure a Splinter could power a magic system by itself, or if one can, it either would be a weak magic system or a very powerful Shard. I agree with the "weak magic system" part. In fact, that's my reason for thinking Engraving is fueled by a Splinter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Another point in favor of Endowment. S/he already has been seen intentionally Splintering him/herself in order to provide for the Divine Breath. I can see Endowment dropping by. Once the power of his/her Shard mutated the inhabitants or if s/he had to leave for some reason, then S/he could just break off a Splinter and leave it behind. Could be, we don't really have enough information to justify it, but then I don't think I could ever have enough information about the cosmere considering that the shards don't actually power investiture themselves (except in a few rare cases) they basically just act as gateways, I don't think the number of splinters present would influence that. Hmm, where did you get the idea that Shards don't power magic systems? I'm fairly certain that Shards are made of Spiritual energy, or Investiture, which powers all magic. Perhaps you are referring to the Power of Creation? I know that Zas believes this to be separate from the Shards, while Chaos believes it is just another name for the power a Shard controls. Did I misunderstand what you meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Spoonface Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 There can be a magic system fueled by the overlap of two shards, right? Why not a magic system created by the overlap of two Splinters? What if this is a splinter of Endowment and a splinter of Dominion working together? What if (crazy idea incoming) the Chinese Emperor dude that inspired the idea is a character on this world? Say, a person that managed to get a hold of a Splinter of both Endowment and Dominion, and is using them to create a magic system? Perhaps he's building an army of Engravers so he can battle Odium, or maybe join him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 It is not called Engraving. It is called Forgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 We know that a shard CAN power a magic system (the mists, vin) but it's not often done. "So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy." so the shards can fuel it directly but they generally don't "as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Forgery, eh? Sounds cool. Write your name on something with the right intent, and it becomes yours, as if forged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I wouldn't make any assumptions about what Forgery does or does not do. Once we have an excerpt posted (months from now) or if you hear Brandon read it at a convention (such as Australia upcoming), then you can start speculating. At this point, judging by what's written in this thread, it's too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 But that's what we're good at! But I understand that your don't want the wrong message about the magical system to spread, in case it isn't close to what Brandon himself has chosen. But speculation is all we're left to at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Spoonface Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Forgery sounds cooler. The other name was far too grave. You may now digitally punch me in the face for that pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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