Trusk'our he/him Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 On Roshar you can have a Polestone that is perfect- it has no flaws in its crystalline structure. Doing so means that it does not leak Investiture naturally and can have lots more Investiture squeezed into it than normal. I wonder if the same could be done with Hemalurgic metals. After all, metal has its own crystalline structure, so perhaps if people found a way to perfect it with advancements in technology you could get similar benefits to that of perfect Polestones; never having worry about Hemalurgic Decay and being to shove far, far more Investiture inside a single spike than would normally be possible (maybe this is how Hemalurgic Decay is a "thing of the past" according to Khriss. This is, obviously, speculative in nature and she could be referring to some other practice or phenomenon). Perhaps something similar could be done with Feruchemical Metalminds, allowing for much larger Feruchemical stores to be kept on person (probably only necessary for extreme Compounders) with comparatively little metal (in fact, maybe this was part of what allowed the Bands of Mourning to get as Invested as they were, but that is also purely speculative). I wondered if this could be extended to Allomancy too, but after some thought it seems doubtful; Allomantic stores aren't a matter of a perfected molecular structure, but more a matter of the metal's total mass, so this would not help in this situation. Perhaps if you could compress more metal into a smaller, more consumable vessel (highly dense beads, most likely) you could get more Allomantic stores with less stomach space, though their weight would increase proportionally. 2
Onironte he/him Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 A Polestone loses Investiture, but since their only function is to store it, I don't think there will be any problems in perfecting it. However, as the Coopermind understands, metallurgical barbs only lose power when they are not in contact with blood. And even if this were the case, is the Investiture really "lost", or is it used to make a bridge between the sDNA of the recipient and the sDNA of the recipient? Edit: I found this – proving my mistake – so I forgot my answer. Quote Argent The Lost Metal Ars Arcanum calls Hemalurgic decay a thing of the past. The term has been used to describe the loss of power in spikes outside of bodies, as well as the small amount of power that is lost at the moment a spike is created. Which one of those things no longer happens? Brandon Sanderson The first one, the decay of spikes outside of a body. They have figured out how to make that no longer a thing. Argent So it's still a thing that happens in the cosmere, they just know how to avoid that completely? Brandon Sanderson Yes. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/518-shardcast-interview/#e16192) 1
teknopathetic he/him Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) I wonder if temperature would have something to do with it? Here is a very laymen overview of what I mean. To make some metals stronger, the metals can be heated to higher temperatures to create impurities that cause hardening (since 9/10 times people want a harder metal). However, this change might be seen as "perfect" or "imperfect" in terms of investiture since the structure has been changed somewhat. Additionally, there is also another property called the "ductile-brittle transition point" temperature that looks at how much energy a metal is able to absorb at a specific temperature. Steel for example is much more brittle at lower temperatures. So the temperatures that the metal have experienced before/during refinement could effect the metal, as could the temperature the metal is at when "burned". I wonder if refinement and ductile-brittle would have any effect? And if so, would the goal be to make harder or softer or more energy absorbent? This also makes me wonder what might happen if someone burned a different phase of metal (gas/liquid/etc). Could there be a different effect if the individual managed to survive the attempt? Edited November 9, 2023 by teknopathetic 1
alder24 Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: I wonder if the same could be done with Hemalurgic metals. After all, metal has its own crystalline structure, so perhaps if people found a way to perfect it with advancements in technology you could get similar benefits to that of perfect Polestones; never having worry about Hemalurgic Decay Huh. That would actually explain perfectly why the Hemalurgic decay in Era 2 is no longer a thing but still exists in Cosmere. Perfect metals. I love it so much. It makes so much sense. Spoiler Argent The Lost Metal Ars Arcanum calls Hemalurgic decay a thing of the past. The term has been used to describe the loss of power in spikes outside of bodies, as well as the small amount of power that is lost at the moment a spike is created. Which one of those things no longer happens? Brandon Sanderson The first one, the decay of spikes outside of a body. They have figured out how to make that no longer a thing. Argent So it's still a thing that happens in the cosmere, they just know how to avoid that completely? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: being to shove far, far more Investiture inside a single spike than would normally be possible Maybe, a perfect gemstone can store "far more" light, but I wouldn't expect that the difference with a perfect metal would be "far, far more", like you want - "far more" like with gemstones, would be more likely But maybe. I wonder however how impurity of metals affects Hemalurgy and Feruchemy. I don't think books told us that. 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: I wondered if this could be extended to Allomancy too, but after some thought it seems doubtful; Allomantic stores aren't a matter of a perfected molecular structure, but more a matter of the metal's total mass, so this would not help in this situation. It already works in Allomancy. The purer the metal is, the more power it gives you, but some badly mixed metals will make you sick despite feeling the reserve in you. TFE ch 7" Quote “Now, there’s something you need to know about Allomantic metals,” Kelsier said as they strolled forward in the mists. “The more pure they are, the more effective they are. The vials we prepare contain absolutely pure metals, prepared and sold specifically for Allomancers. “Alloys—like pewter—are even trickier, since the metal percentages have to be mixed just right, if you want maximum power. In fact, if you aren’t careful when you buy your metals, you could end up with the wrong alloy entirely.” Vin frowned. “You mean, someone might scam me?” “Not intentionally,” Kelsier said. “The thing is, most of the terms that people use—words like ‘brass,’ ‘pewter,’ and ‘bronze’—are really quite vague, when you get down to it. Pewter, for instance, is generally accepted as an alloy of tin mixed with lead, with perhaps some copper or silver, depending on the use and the circumstances. Allomancer’s pewter, however, is an alloy of ninety-one percent tin, nine percent lead. If you want maximum strength from your metal, you have to use those percentages.” “And . . . if you burn the wrong percentage?” Vin asked. “If the mixture is only off by a bit, you’ll still get some power out of it,” Kelsier said. “However, if it’s too far off, burning it will make you sick.” 47 minutes ago, teknopathetic said: I wonder if temperature would have something to do with it? Here is a very laymen overview of what I mean. To make some metals stronger, the metals can be heated to higher temperatures to create impurities that cause hardening (since 9/10 times people want a harder metal). However, this change might be seen as "perfect" or "imperfect" in terms of investiture since the structure has been changed somewhat. Additionally, there is also another property called the "ductile-brittle transition point" temperature that looks at how much energy a metal is able to absorb at a specific temperature. Steel for example is much more brittle at lower temperatures. So the temperatures that the metal have experienced before/during refinement could effect the metal, as could the temperature the metal is at when "burned". I wonder if refinement and ductile-brittle would have any effect? And if so, would the goal be to make harder or softer or more energy absorbent? This also makes me wonder what might happen if someone burned a different phase of metal (gas/liquid/etc). Could there be a different effect if the individual managed to survive the attempt? Temperature has some effect on investiture, at least when metal is already molten. You might be onto something. Spoiler Nethseäar Can you burn or Feruchemically fill molten metal? Assuming, you know, that was something you wanted to do. Brandon Sanderson Yes, you should be able to but that would be very nasty. Nethseäar Would it affect the Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, it would affect the Investiture. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) 2
teknopathetic he/him Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, alder24 said: Temperature has some effect on investiture, at least when metal is already molten. You might be onto something. Reveal hidden contents Nethseäar Can you burn or Feruchemically fill molten metal? Assuming, you know, that was something you wanted to do. Brandon Sanderson Yes, you should be able to but that would be very nasty. Nethseäar Would it affect the Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, it would affect the Investiture. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) I wonder if the mists are some form of Solid ---> Gas sublimation. If other metals could be sublimated and ingested, would there be a different effect? That would ... i guess .... avoid causing any impurities in the metal. The sublimated metals would likely freak out when exposed to oxygen though, so that makes the whole process pretty hard to pull off. Cadmium, zinc, and magnesium have relatively lower sublimation temperatures. I am not an expert in this, but people who work with space-craft keep track of which metal perform best within a vacuum, and this is as aspect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_for_use_in_vacuum Edited November 9, 2023 by teknopathetic 2
..... he/him Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 45 minutes ago, alder24 said: Maybe, a perfect gemstone can store "far more" light, but I wouldn't expect that the difference with a perfect metal would be "far, far more", like you want - "far more" like with gemstones, would be more likely But maybe. I wonder however how impurity of metals affects Hemalurgy and Feruchemy. I don't think books told us that. bad alloys make it leak faster and hold less charge in both feuchemy and hemalurgy and perfect metals hold more and likely dont leak. Spoiler Paleo In Allomancy, bad alloys can be detrimental to you, can make you sick and stuff like that. Does it also apply in Feruchemy or generally impurities, do they apply? Brandon Sanderson Not as strongly. Paleo How would they apply? Is it more like a smaller charge or? Brandon Sanderson It would just take less of a charge. It wouldn't make you sick. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) Spoiler Questioner Hemalurgic spikes degrade very quickly, but Feruchemical metals can hold on to their charge forever, apparently. Is that just because Hemalurgy is corruptive? Brandon Sanderson Yes, though I may not say "forever." Questioner But it's much slower? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, way slower. Yes, it's the nature of Feruchemy and Hemalurgy. Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018) 1
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, teknopathetic said: I wonder if the mists are some form of Solid ---> Gas sublimation. If other metals could be sublimated and ingested, would there be a different effect? That would ... i guess .... avoid causing any impurities in the metal. The sublimated metals would likely freak out when exposed to oxygen though, so that makes the whole process pretty hard to pull off. Cadmium, zinc, and magnesium have relatively lower sublimation temperatures. I am not an expert in this, but people who work with space-craft keep track of which metal perform best within a vacuum, and this is as aspect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_for_use_in_vacuum I wonder if this is going to play into Space Age Mistborn and FTL travel - boosted Metallic Arts/power via metallic sublimation? Since Bendalloy is an alloy of Cadmium and Cadmium sublimates at 75C in a vacuum... Edited November 9, 2023 by Green Hoodie Mistborn 1
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