Identity of Baxis' mistress

[happyman]

First of all let me say that I love this theory. I hadn't the slightest guess who she could during either of my readings of WoK.

But I'm not bumping this old thread just to say that. I noticed further evidence for this theory. From one of the "death quotes" given at some chapter starts.

References to a female vandal stratching out her own eyes... and didn't Baxil's mistress destroy the eyes of a bust during her vandalism?

I was already pretty sold on the theory before this bit of evidence, but I must say that this observation seals the deal. What's even better, if I've understood Brandon correctly, she's going to be a viewpoint character at one point. Nifty!

[Mad_Scientist]

“A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal.”—Dated Palahevan, 1173, 73 seconds pre-death. Subject: a beggar of some renown, known for his elegant songs.

I was wondering about that back in September, I think it was before I even understood it was Shalash. http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7820.msg171844#msg171844

I couldn't make sense of most of those death quotes, some must be referencing events we haven't seen. Kaladin's bridge/chasm leap is clear enough.

Interesting. Since I have only started discussing Brandon's books on the internet fairly recently, I'm afraid that I haven't yet spent much time looking at the nearly 60 pages of threads on TWG, though I did look a little, but it seems there's some very good stuff there that I have missed. I'll have to spend some more time reading some of the older threads there when I have a chance.

[Zas678]

“A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal.”—Dated Palahevan, 1173, 73 seconds pre-death. Subject: a beggar of some renown, known for his elegant songs.

I was wondering about that back in September, I think it was before I even understood it was Shalash. http://www.timewaste...71844#msg171844

I couldn't make sense of most of those death quotes, some must be referencing events we haven't seen. Kaladin's bridge/chasm leap is clear enough.

Wow Cheese-ninja! That's a perfect fit! I think that's a pretty awesome confirmation of Shalash. I wonder. It says that she is the "Daughter of Kings and winds. Does this mean that her father is Jezrien, who was once a King? And is this saying that Jezrien really is the Stormfather?

[Cheese Ninja]

I was wondering about that too. "Daughter of kings and winds" made me think that maybe she was Jezrien's (Stormfather) daughter, but really, it's a bit vague. Since we don't know the circumstances that the Heralds were chosen in, we don't really know if there is anything keeping one Herald from being another Herald's child.

That epigraph is only helpful in determining her identity in combination with Sigzil's comments about the Emuli worshipping the Heralds directly. Baxil's interlude takes place in Emul, if you weren't sure.

This was the Hallowed Hall, the place where a wealthy man placed images of his Kadasix for reverence. The mistress walked up to the first piece of art. The painting depicted Epan, Lady of Dreams. It was beautiful, a masterpiece of gold leaf on black canvas.

“I’ve been thinking of seeking the Old Magic,” Baxil said, partially to keep himself from cringing as the mistress moved on to gouge out the eyes of a fine bust.

Herald=Kadasix, Jezrien=Prime Kadasix

Shalash's statue is missing in Szeth's prologue, I wish I could find the post for who made the link first.

Even without Shash's picture in the interlude headings, we would have a good guess at her identity. With the picture, that just confirms it.

What's really interesting here is that it means Shalash was there shortly before the events in Szeth's prologue. They had time to get rid of the destroyed statue, but not replace it.

[happyman]

I was wondering about that too. "Daughter of kings and winds" made me think that maybe she was Jezrien's (Stormfather) daughter, but really, it's a bit vague. Since we don't know the circumstances that the Heralds were chosen in, we don't really know if there is anything keeping one Herald from being another Herald's child.

Given the number of things we don't know, I think we can just add Shalash's origins to the heap. The pieces we have do fit together nicely, though.

[Moogle]

At the risk of thread necromancy,

 

Is Shallash the daughter of Jezrien?

Umm… Oh, yes, she is his daughter.
(source)

I'm completely sure that Baxil's mistress is Shalash/Shash after getting that question confirmed.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Moogle

[Cheese Ninja]

WOOHOOO!!!!

 

Can't believe he gave us that one.  I'm giving myself another imaginary point.

[happyman]

I'm completely sure that Baxil's mistress is Shalash/Shash after getting that question confirmed.

 

Yeah, with that confirmed, the death-cries pretty much says outright "The art vandal is Shallash."

[Kurkistan]

More confirmation to pile on. I'd eat my hat if it wasn't Shallash at this point:

 

Source:

Mysty: Is Baxil's Mistress destroying statues of the Herald Shallash?

A: Yes. Actually in the prologe her statue is missing because Baxil's mistress came through.

Mysty: Is Baxel's mistress Shallash?

A: I'm not going to answer that. (I know this had been RAFO'ed before, but I wanted to give it another try since he answered the first)

[Argent]

I am inclined to join you. Although at this point I am willing to settle down for a "Baxil's mistress works for Shallash" type of compromise.

[FeatherWriter]

Wow, I'm surprised Brandon confirmed that, that's pretty incredible! It's funny, this theory has gained so much steam that Botanica Xu, one of the awesome artists over on tumblr started doing little character pictures of most of the characters in Stormlight Archive, and she actually ended up labeling her picture of Baxil's Mistress as Shalash. I sent her a quick message to remind her that it's still just a theory right now and she changed it.

 

With that confirmation of Jezrien as her father though, I'd be incredibly surprised if Shalash wasn't Baxil's Mistress.

[Argent]

Sounds like I've missed - or forgotten - something. How is her kinship with Jezrien confirmation?

[Kurkistan]

It was theorized that Epigraph 55 referred to Shallash, which was what started all of this and why the kinship question was even asked.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Argent]

Yea, that makes a lot of sense. I'm in the boat with you guys!

[Gloom]

I'm hoping it's not true, even though it looks like it's almost a certainty. I really wanna see Kurkistan eat a hat.

[ilikebacon]

Five of the chapter faces are female. Six are male, and one only appears when Hoid/Wit is in the chapter. So assuming the other ten are the Herald's faces (which I think is pretty solid; you can see my thoughts about it here), that would mean there are five female Heralds. All five male Heralds are named (Jezrien, Nalan, Kalak, Talenel, Ishar), so it's a pretty safe bet that Shalash is female.

And I really like the idea that Shalash might be the woman destroying the artwork. When I read that chapter, I thought it was just there to give a solid explanation of the Old Magic, but I was utterly bewildered by Baxis' mistress. This theory is as good as any, though I would like to point out that Shalash=Shash (theoretically) and the Primary Attribute of Shash is creativity. Kinda odd that she'd be destroying art, which could be considered the height of creativity.

 

I don't if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but isn't it possible that the Mistress, if Shalash, is also Shashara from Warbreaker? Shashara is credited with many acts of creation on Nalthis, and associated with Vasher - who was also a worldhopper.

 

EDIT: I realized that since Vasher killed Shashara this would, in fact, be impossible, since she could hardly then be running around on Roshar. Whoops! I still think the main theory holds

Edited April 8, 2014 by ilikebacon

[Taliesin]

Five of the chapter faces are female. Six are male, and one only appears when Hoid/Wit is in the chapter. So assuming the other ten are the Herald's faces (which I think is pretty solid; you can see my thoughts about it here), that would mean there are five female Heralds. All five male Heralds are named (Jezrien, Nalan, Kalak, Talenel, Ishar), so it's a pretty safe bet that Shalash is female.

And I really like the idea that Shalash might be the woman destroying the artwork. When I read that chapter, I thought it was just there to give a solid explanation of the Old Magic, but I was utterly bewildered by Baxis' mistress. This theory is as good as any, though I would like to point out that Shalash=Shash (theoretically) and the Primary Attribute of Shash is creativity. Kinda odd that she'd be destroying art, which could be considered the height of creativity.

 

I read the link and agree that the heralds fit with the numbers. I didnt have time to read them all but did you account for the fact that the Divine Attributes for Nan change from WoK to WoR?

[WeiryWriter]

I read the link and agree that the heralds fit with the numbers. I didnt have time to read them all but did you account for the fact that the Divine Attributes for Nan change from WoK to WoR?

 

They don't actually change.  There was a mistake in WoK causing the Divine Attributes for Order 2 and Order 5 to be swapped, this error was fixed.  The correct Divine Attributes for Nale/Skybreakers are Just/Confident.

[Purelake Earthquake]

Baxil's Mistress is most likely Shalash.

 

This has spoilers for WoR and especially Warbreaker

 

Thinking about the whole Vasher is Ishar theory, Shalash could be Sashara. There is one large roadblock to this though, which I'll get to later (it's not that she's dead). I'm not entirely sold the Vasher/Ishar theory, but for me I like theories that throw out possibilites. I think this could be true. Now, one of the main basis for Vasher/Ishar is chapters with him have the Ishar herald picture.
I don't have the quote for this, but someone asked Brandon that since we've seen worldhoppers on Roshar, if we've seen from worldhoppers from Roshar in other books. He affirmed this. Before I had always just thought the Heralds were just wandering around Roshar, but for Heralds, I wouldn't assumed Worldhopping was unfeasible. So Vasher, and maybe Shashara, didn't originate on Nalthis, maybe they're some of the mentioned Worldhoppers from Roshar. And maybe there are other Heralds running around in other books. WoR brought some connection between Nalthis and Roshar, bringing to characters over. This is a greater connection than I've seen between any other books so far. Maybe something going on there or their easy to worldhop to or something. (There is an expanse of vibrance is Shadesmar)
Also Vasher and Ishar are very similar names. Vasher, might not even be an alias, as it wouldn't matter on a different planet. It could just be a linguistics thing, a Nalthisation of his name, like foreign immigrants. Same deal for Shashara, really similar to Shalash, has Shash right in there. Fairly large coincidence. So, what do we know about Shashara's backstory?
From the coppermind: "Shashara's life before she Returned is a mystery". Brandon has said all of the five scholars were special returned. She discovered how to make a type IV BioChromatic Entity, and she and Vasher made Nightblood. Now I'm to the important part. She and Vasher had a falling out, the details are in the spoiler section of warbreaker chapter 26 annotations. It mentions Vasher was horrified by what she did in the Battle of Twilight Falls. Which was described in a painting in the same chapter. Just skim these paragraphs:

"Red upon red, shades so subtle that the painter must have been of the Third Heightening at least. Violent, terrible reds, clashing against one another like waves—waves that only vaguely resembled men, yet that somehow managed to convey the idea of armies fighting much better than any detailed realistic depiction could have.
Chaos. Bloody wounds upon bloody uniforms upon bloody skin. There was so much violence in red. His own color. He almost felt as if he were in the painting—felt its turmoil shaking him, disorienting him, pulling on him.

The waves of men pointed toward one figure at the center. A woman, vaguely depicted by a couple of curved brushstrokes. And yet it was obvious. She stood high, as if atop a cresting wave of crashing soldiers, caught in mid-motion, head flung back, her arm upraised.

Holding a deep black sword that darkened the red sky around it."


The woman is confirmed to be Shashara in the annotations. Anyway, notice the primary feature of this picture? Blood. Blood Shalash's essence. That lines up. But what about Shalash's attributes, creativity and honesty. We saw creativity, coming up with the idea for nightblood. And honesty, the second reason for her and Vasher's fight. She wanted to teach everybody how to make sentient death swords. She lines up pretty well with Shalash, even better than Vasher/Ishar (I think Pious and Guiding could both describe him well as Zahel).
But anyways that brings us to the important part. Vasher killed Shashara, he killed her with Nightblood. Allegedly. That's what we've been told. Denth says it and Vasher believes it. Vasher would know, right? I mean he's the one who supposedly killed her. Technically it was Nightblood. Doing research I found something from chapter 29, Nightblood doesn't think she's dead, and really wants to see her. --Actually, I just found out according to the chapter 54 annotations, the reason for this is because he can't "overwrite" concepts from the beggining of his creation such as Shashara being alive, so you can ignore that-- Here are two possibilities I thought of. One, she could have tricked Vasher. She could have done something similar to Jasnah and gone Cognitive. Two, Nightblood tricked him. Nightblood really likes Shashara because she's his Mom, sort of, and I don't think he would have wanted to kill her. So he faked it some how. The whole thing could have been planned by both of them as well.
Also, another point of evidence. Nightblood is really similar to a shardblade. Looking at recent theoryland Q&A, I found this. I don't know how to quote a link to it, but here it is. It's from Bartbug's WoR signing report.

Bartbug: "If Nightblood were on Roshar would he be a Shardblade?"
Brandon: "Yes, they are exactly the same thing. He is a Shardblade that is twisted and is a lot more powerful than normal."

Nightblood is a Shardblade, exactly the same thing. Could that just independently happen. The chronology is vague, Warbreaker and backstory is before WoK, but not 4,500 years. According to coppermind Warbreaker is after Mistborn. Alloy is 341 years after Mistborn, which is around the same time as WoK. The Manywar was 300 years prior to Warbreaker. So, recent less than 700 years before Stormlight Archive. But, anyway, here's a possible chronology for Shalash/Shashara. Shalash gives up her honorblade. Sometime she goes to Nalthis and meets Vasher. She figures out how to utilize the Nalthis magic to create a Shardblade that runs on Breaths. She has motivation and it provides an explanation for there being a Shardblade on Nalthis. Because the Rosharans coming up with Shardblades, and the Nalthisans coming up with their own Shardblades seems a bit unlikely. But the Nalthisans didn't come up with their own Shardblades, Shashara did. It would make a lot of sense if she was from Roshar. The rest of her story would be she "dies" and goes back to Roshar and rips up paintings of herself.
Here's another interesting piece of info from the chapte 26 annotations. According to Brandon, "Nightblood is part of a much larger story in this world. He’s dropped casually into this particular book, more as a side note than a real focus of what’s going on, but his own role in the world is much, much larger than his supporting part here would indicate"
His role is much, much larger. I think Nalthis' role in the cosmere is somehow connected to Roshar's. Maybe because some Heralds went there. Which is somewhat related to my next topic. Remember what I said, all the way back at the beggining, about there being a roadblock? Well, here it is. Denth and Shashara are siblings. It doesn't disprove anything, just maks things more complicated. If Shashara is Shalash, since Shalash is Jezrien's daughter, then Denth would probably have to be a Herald too. And if he is, were Yesteel and Arsteel as well. I doubt all five scholars could be, as there are four male scholars and five male Heralds, but two of those are Jezrien and Taln which are unlikely candidates. That would make things a lot more complicated. So, probably not all of them, maybe not even Vasher. Though groups of five seem important, two sets of five books, five male and five female heralds, etc. So when I see five scholars, I wonder if that number could be important. I still think if any of them are heralds it's probably only 1-3 of them.
Also, worth noting, all of the scholars are Returned, and so might not remember precisely their time as Heralds, though they do know bits of their past, like Denth and Shashara being siblings.
A side, top of my head speculation, is that maybe instead of being Shalash, Shashara is like her daughter or in some other way connected to Roshar and/or the Heralds.  That way Shashara could still be dead on Roshar and Shalash could still be destroying artwork, but it'd still explain the connections.

Anyway, a lot of speculation, some possibilities.  I just don't think we should automatically count her out just because she's dead.  Two characters think so, but it didn't happen on screen and I haven't seen the body.
Congratulations to anyone who stuck with me this far.


Side note, there needs to be a Stormlight/Danny Phantom crossover. Going to Elsecall cause she's Jasnah Kholin. "I'm going Cognitive!"

[gjustice99]

 A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal.

-Dated Palahevan, 1173, 73 seconds pre-death. Subject: a beggar of some renown for his elegant songs

--All but confirmed by WoB to be Shalash hammering out her own statues, and she is the daughter of Jezrien, the Herald of the Windrunners 

I took this from a different thread (Analyzing Death Rattles or something similar) and while reading it, came across this and I think this is great evidence in supporting that Shalash is Baxil's mistress.

 

[Thawte]

First post here, and sorry to resurrect quite an old topic.

 

So I know that it's a pretty solid, and popular, theory that Baxil's mistress is in fact Shalash. And given the evidence that's been presented, it's hard to refute it. But I can't help but think that she is in some way connected to the people and events on Scadrial.

 

There are three things that really stuck out in the interlude to me:

• Her appearance is unlike any race on Roshar.
• Baxil is inexplicably infatuated with her. The way he describes how he feels sounds a lot like emotional Allomancy.
• Baxil also mentions that she has extremely good hearing, better than he would expect a person to have. To me that seems like it could indicate that she can burn tin.

The writing just seems so deliberate in the interlude when it comes to these things. Assuming the theory that she is a Herald is correct, so worldhopping probably wouldn't be a stretch for her, would it be way off basis to suggest that she could also possess Allomantic powers? Or are the things I pointed out just the result of her being a Herald?

[Eki]

Taln seems to have supernatural reflexes (catching poison darts in flight), so I think it's pretty safe to guess that supernatural hearing would be part of the Heralds' powers too.

 

I don't think we know how old the Heralds are, but they are old enough that ethnicities would have changed a lot over that time. Her appearance could have been normal when she was born.

 

The infatuation I'm not sure about, I don't remember the interlude that well. But was it that inexplicable? She's a beautiful (presumably? I don't remember how she's described), mysterious woman with great resources. It's not inconceivable that someone would fall for a person like that, I think.

[CaptainRyan]

I am not sure if this has been confirmed or not but I have seen theories floating around that not all of the Heralds are native to Roshar so that might explain odd ethnicities or even odd powers no?

[Yata]

As far as we know all the Heralds may be foreigns on Roshar (well if we may call someone "foreign" in a planet where all the human's life may be imported)

[Thawte]

Taln seems to have supernatural reflexes (catching poison darts in flight), so I think it's pretty safe to guess that supernatural hearing would be part of the Heralds' powers too.

 

I don't think we know how old the Heralds are, but they are old enough that ethnicities would have changed a lot over that time. Her appearance could have been normal when she was born.

 

The infatuation I'm not sure about, I don't remember the interlude that well. But was it that inexplicable? She's a beautiful (presumably? I don't remember how she's described), mysterious woman with great resources. It's not inconceivable that someone would fall for a person like that, I think.

 

Ah, right, I forgot about Taln's crazy dart catch. It could be true then that all of the Heralds simply have extraordinary senses and reflexes, and that the things I mentioned are just a result of that. Your point about race is good, too. Since thousands of years have passed, I guess the races back then could have been pretty much anything.

 

I am not sure if this has been confirmed or not but I have seen theories floating around that not all of the Heralds are native to Roshar so that might explain odd ethnicities or even odd powers no?

 

Well, that would explain it! I'm going to cling to that hope.