Metallic Arts: How does Investiture even work?

[Insert Name Here]

What does feruchemically storing investiture do exactly? Does it give you more raw power that could be channeled? Does hemalurgically stealing it bump up all the powers they already have by a little bit because they have more investiture in their bodies? Is it like Connection, but you're Connecting to a shard? Has Brandon told us anything about it, or left it a RAFO? Does anyone know? Also, if anyone has any theories, I would love to know those. This just like grabbed my mind and isn't letting go.

This just occurred to me, would it be like breaths from Warbreaker? Because that's just extra Investiture stapled onto someone, so would it raise someone to, say, the first heightening for a short amount of time after being like a drab for a week or something.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Insert Name Here

[Treamayne]

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On 4/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, Treamayne said:

 

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3 hours ago, Insert Name Here said:

What does feruchemically storing investiture do exactly? Does it give you more raw power that could be channeled? Does hemalurgically stealing it bump up all the powers they already have by a little bit because they have more investiture in their bodies? Is it like Connection, but you're Connecting to a shard? Has Brandon told us anything about it, or left it a RAFO? Does anyone know? Also, if anyone has any theories, I would love to know those. This just like grabbed my mind and isn't letting go.

This just occurred to me, would it be like breaths from Warbreaker? Because that's just extra Investiture stapled onto someone, so would it raise someone to, say, the first heightening for a short amount of time after being like a drab for a week or something.

If you are asking about F-Nicrosil, then yes - all of that is RAFO (to be explored in Mistbron Era 3). Note that the use of Nicrosil in a Medallion is different in some way(s) from a natural Nicrosil Ferring.

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

So nicrosil.  Wax couldn’t use a blank gold metalmind because he’s not a gold ferring, why can he use a blank nicrosil metalmind?

Brandon Sanderson

So this will all come out eventually but the idea is there are certain ways to connect yourself to magic, to hack the magic and make it think you have the Spiritual DNA that you don’t actually have.  And this is one of the ways.

Questioner

So then the people who made this medallion have this thing that a regular nicrosil Ferring couldn’t--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you’re picking up on it. We’ll dig deeper into it as the series progresses.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

Quote

Volratho (paraphrased)

Humans on Scadrial have Investiture of both Preservation and Ruin inside of them.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Volratho (paraphrased)

Feruchemically, does storing Investiture in Nicrosil store this connection to Ruin/Preservation/Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

You are on the right track, and asking the right questions but RAFO.

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

Quote

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

Quote

Cheese Ninja

For the modern day Mistborn trilogy (Era 3), have you decided on whether the nicrosil Misting main character will be male or female yet? I haven't seen you mention it anywhere.

Brandon Sanderson

I have him as a guy right now, but that could change. (It has before.)

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 28, 2012)

Quote

Argent

You've dropped a few tidbits about the plot of the next Mistborn series over the years. Putting all those things together, we have a nicrosil Ferring Terriswoman hacker recruited for fieldwork in an "Allomancer SWAT team" to chase a Mistborn serial killer. Could you give us a more recent and concise pitch/blurb if the above is no longer accurate?

Brandon Sanderson

Ha. That's not far off, as all of those things still exist in the series, though the weight I'll give them is relative. With the Alloy series covering some of the police procedural aspect of storytelling, I'm inching the outlines slowly away from the SWAT idea and toward more spy thriller--but the SWAT team isn't not gone completely. (Of course, who knows what will happen in the intervening years between now and when I write it.)

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 4, 2016)

 

Hope that helps.

 

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Insert Name Here said:

What does feruchemically storing investiture do exactly? Does it give you more raw power that could be channeled? Does hemalurgically stealing it bump up all the powers they already have by a little bit because they have more investiture in their bodies? Is it like Connection, but you're Connecting to a shard? Has Brandon told us anything about it, or left it a RAFO? Does anyone know? Also, if anyone has any theories, I would love to know those. This just like grabbed my mind and isn't letting go.

This just occurred to me, would it be like breaths from Warbreaker? Because that's just extra Investiture stapled onto someone, so would it raise someone to, say, the first heightening for a short amount of time after being like a drab for a week or something.

Welcome. There aren't any certain answers to those questions. I will present to you what I personally think those things do.

Starting with F-nicrosil, it doesn't store raw investiture per se, but the innate investiture, part of your soul that gives you invested arts, powers like Allomancy. This is mostly confirmed by Brandon and WoBs at this point. I think it works just like all other metalminds - you store your Allomancy for an hour, you can tap it for an hour later and become 2x stronger with your powers - but that's unconfirmed. In Medallions however F-nicrosil is more restrictive and works like a coppermind - it's all or nothing. WoBs:

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

 

Spoiler

kingbirdy (paraphrased)

Could Feruchemical nicrosil be used to store other Invested abilities, such as a Returned Breath or the abilities of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that's possible.

DragonCon 2016 (Sept. 4, 2016)

 

In the case of nicrosil spike in Hemalurgy, this is different. H-nicrosil doesn't steal powers, but just pure, raw investiture, a part of their soul. We don't really know how it works, TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

but it's very likely that the spike Set was using in TLM ch 47 was a nicrosil spike, because they were stealing raw investiture from people, and they were somehow able to grant temporary powers with this spike. So the potential of such a spike is huge.

By spiking yourself with lots of raw investiture in a nicrosil spike, you might get effects similar to what Breaths are giving you - some increased life sense, color aura and passive effects like that, probably on a lower scale. You will increase the investiture levels of your soul, and that have some Cosmere-wide effects similar to Breaths. But this is still unconfirmed, mostly speculation.

WoBs:

Spoiler

Pagerunner

The Hemalurgy table, you wrote down "atium steals any power, lerasium is all abilities, nicrosil is Investiture"; what's the difference between those three?

Hemalurgic atium, lerasium, and nicrosil. What's powers, abilities, and Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

People are Invested in ways that do not give them active powers. So for instance, everyone on Nalthis is Invested. Everyone in the cosmere is, really. You want to steal their Investiture, but they don't have a power. You're still ripping off a piece of their soul. So there is a distinction between the actual Investiture that's in a human being and a specific power that they have.

So that distinction is pretty easy. You can also, with Hemalurgy, steal specific things. You can steal just general Investiture. You can steal, if you want--this is where the kandra Blessings come from. You can instead steal specific things that are not like stealing Allomancy. Stealing, for instance, someone's mental acuity.

Pagerunner

So abilities is like the half that's all the strength, speed, all that kind of stuff? Those are abilities, versus the Metallic Arts are all powers?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Pagerunner

Then Investiture, is that offworld magics?

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, it's the raw power.

Pagerunner

Nicrosil is their soul?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. A piece of their soul, essentially.

Pagerunner

So how would you go about stealing an offworld power?

Brandon Sanderson

It's going to depend. A Breath, you would steal with nicrosil. It's general Investiture, is what you would probably going call that. You could forcibly remove someone's Breath from them. The ability to be a Sand Master you would steal with the power ability.

JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021)

Dawnshard/RoW spoiler WoB:

Spoiler

tskyeguye

From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects?

Brandon Sanderson

The latter.

Skrimyt

Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be?

Brandon Sanderson

Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy.

But RAFO to specifics.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by alder24

[Insert Name Here]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

Welcome. There aren't any certain answers to those questions. I will present to you what I personally think those things do.

Starting with F-nicrosil, it doesn't store raw investiture per say, but the innate investiture, part of your soul that gives you invested arts, powers like Allomancy. This is mostly confirmed by Brandon and WoBs at this point. I think it works just like all other metalminds - you store your Allomancy for an hour, you can tap it for an hour later and become 2x stronger with your powers - but that's unconfirmed. In Medallions however F-nicrosil is more restrictive and works like a coppermind - it's all or nothing. 

In the case of nicrosil spike in Hemalurgy, this is different. H-nicrosil doesn't steal powers, but just pure, raw investiture, a part of their soul. We don't really know how it works, TLM spoilers:

Is F-nicrosil feruchemical nicrosil and H-nicrosil hemalurgically used nicrosil? I haven't heard those terms before.

[Trusk'our he/him]

25 minutes ago, Insert Name Here said:

Is F-nicrosil feruchemical nicrosil and H-nicrosil hemalurgically used nicrosil? I haven't heard those terms before.

Yes. We came up with them on the Shard to make it easier to post them instead of needing to say Feruchemical or Hemalrugic or Allomantic before every metal for clarification.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Insert Name Here said:

Is F-nicrosil feruchemical nicrosil and H-nicrosil hemalurgically used nicrosil? I haven't heard those terms before.

47 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Yes. We came up with them on the Shard to make it easier to post them instead of needing to say Feruchemical or Hemalrugic or Allomantic before every metal for clarification.

Keep in mind there is still some disparity in how H-Nicrosil is used and understood - as there is a difference between a Nicrosil Spike, or a Spike that grants A-Nicrosil (Electrum Spike) or F-Nicrosil (Bendalloy Spike). @Trusk'our can probably weigh on which version is more common - though I have lobbied for:

• H-Metal = A pike of that metal (in this case a Spike of Nicrosil - which steals investiture)
• Ha-<metal> = A spike granting Allomancy in that metal (in this case a spike of Electrum that stole A-Nicrosil)
• Hf-<metal> = A spike granting Ferchemy for that metal (in this case a spike of Bendalloy that stole F-Nicrosil)

Coppermind: A-Table | F-Table | H-Table

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

8 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Keep in mind there is still some disparity in how H-Nicrosil is used and understood - as there is a difference between a Nicrosil Spike, or a Spike that grants A-Nicrosil (Electrum Spike) or F-Nicrosil (Bendalloy Spike). @Trusk'our can probably weigh on which version is more common - though I have lobbied for:

• H-Metal = A pike of that metal (in this case a Spike of Nicrosil - which steals investiture)
• Ha-<metal> = A spike granting Allomancy in that metal (in this case a spike of Electrum that stole A-Nicrosil)
• Hf-<metal> = A spike granting Ferchemy for that metal (in this case a spike of Bendalloy that stole F-Nicrosil)

I've literally only ever seen A-meta, F-metal, and H-metal.

Those other make sense, but I feel like we usually don't need them, as when we talk about Hemalurgy granting those powers we typically just refer to them as those powers.