Can shardblades work for hemalurgy?

[Ookla the Bees]

Since shardblades are probably made of Honor's god metal, could they work for hemalurgy? I'm not asking for what they would do, just if they could even work. Because blades fuzz though a living being and only sever the soul stuff, could they even make contact with someone to steal something? Could you will a living shardblade into staying solid, and could the stolen attributes even stay in the metal if it has a spren in it?

Bonus question, would honorblades be any different?

[alder24]

12 minutes ago, AltonicKeys said:

Since shardblades are probably made of Honor's god metal, could they work for hemalurgy? I'm not asking for what they would do, just if they could even work. Because blades fuzz though a living being and only sever the soul stuff, could they even make contact with someone to steal something? Could you will a living shardblade into staying solid, and could the stolen attributes even stay in the metal if it has a spren in it?

Bonus question, would honorblades be any different?

Technically yes, but in practicality no:

Spoiler

Questioner

Can Shardblades, dead or alive, be used as Hemalurgic spikes? And if attempted, what would the result be?

Brandon Sanderson

Technically yes, but in practicality no.

To use something as a Hemalurgic spike, it basically just needs to be able to already have a charge of Investiture, or be able to adopt one. Technically, Shardblades are made from a god metal. You could do this. But the Blade is gonna be big and unwieldy, and the form it’s in right now, it’s going to slice the soul rather than rip pieces off. You would have to jump through a bunch of hoops that wouldn’t be worth it in order to use one.

It would basically mean that you’d have to separate the metal of the Shardblade from the concept of a Shardblade itself, is what’s going on there.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

Shardblade are already full of investiture, they can't fit additional Hemalurgic charge:

Spoiler

Questioner

Can a Shardblade, dead or alive, become a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

It's already too strongly Invested for this. It couldn't hold anymore charge.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Also Shardblades are made of an alloy of Tanavastium and Koravellium, god metals of both Honor and Cultivation. Pure Tanavastium is in Honorblades, but the problem is the same - you need to separate a piece of it from the blade to make it work like a spike.

Spoiler

Alpharho

The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but good question.

Alpharho

Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.

Alpharho

So, different proportions of tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.

Alpharho

Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.

Alpharho

But you won't say what that thing is called?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

 

[Ookla the Mad]

23 hours ago, AltonicKeys said:

Since shardblades are probably made of Honor's god metal, could they work for hemalurgy? I'm not asking for what they would do, just if they could even work. Because blades fuzz though a living being and only sever the soul stuff, could they even make contact with someone to steal something? Could you will a living shardblade into staying solid, and could the stolen attributes even stay in the metal if it has a spren in it?

Bonus question, would honorblades be any different?

It wouldn't be hemalurgy, due to how they cut through matter. Now if you persuaded them to stay in the Physical Realm and not cut and just be a shardnail it would be possible to use it as a pure Godmetals spike, but we know that Godmetals aren't the best with hemalurgic charging, so while the spike could work it wouldn't. I don't know how it would work with a spren but I think it would be harder to charge it. 

This raises a question: if you didn't make physical contact could what you chop off someone's web be spiked onto someone?

[Ookla the Immortal]

12 minutes ago, AltonicKeys said:

Since shardblades are probably made of Honor's god metal, could they work for hemalurgy? I'm not asking for what they would do, just if they could even work. Because blades fuzz though a living being and only sever the soul stuff, could they even make contact with someone to steal something? Could you will a living shardblade into staying solid, and could the stolen attributes even stay in the metal if it has a spren in it?

Bonus question, would honorblades be any different?

Well, I don't think they'd stay in the person you tried to give the attribute to, but as it severs the spiritweb, we see it can touch that, so I would think so.

[Quantus]

52 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Technically yes, but in practicality no:

  Hide contents

Questioner

Can Shardblades, dead or alive, be used as Hemalurgic spikes? And if attempted, what would the result be?

Brandon Sanderson

Technically yes, but in practicality no.

To use something as a Hemalurgic spike, it basically just needs to be able to already have a charge of Investiture, or be able to adopt one. Technically, Shardblades are made from a god metal. You could do this. But the Blade is gonna be big and unwieldy, and the form it’s in right now, it’s going to slice the soul rather than rip pieces off. You would have to jump through a bunch of hoops that wouldn’t be worth it in order to use one.

It would basically mean that you’d have to separate the metal of the Shardblade from the concept of a Shardblade itself, is what’s going on there.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

Shardblade are already full of investiture, they can't fit additional Hemalurgic charge:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Can a Shardblade, dead or alive, become a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

It's already too strongly Invested for this. It couldn't hold anymore charge.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Also Shardblades are made of an alloy of Tanavastium and Koravellium, god metals of both Honor and Cultivation. Pure Tanavastium is in Honorblades, but the problem is the same - you need to separate a piece of it from the blade to make it work like a spike.

  Reveal hidden contents

Alpharho

The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but good question.

Alpharho

Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.

Alpharho

So, different proportions of tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.

Alpharho

Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.

Alpharho

But you won't say what that thing is called?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

 

Ive long wondered: Is it rare among the Godmetals to be able to easily accept additional Soul Charge via hemalurgy (we know Atium and Trellium can do it), or is it the fact that Shardbaldes are Sapient Investiture with their own Identity, etc?

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Ive long wondered: Is it rare among the Godmetals to be able to easily accept additional Soul Charge via hemalurgy (we know Atium and Trellium can do it), or is it the fact that Shardbaldes are Sapient Investiture with their own Identity, etc?

I think that's because Shardblades are sapient spren maniesting in the PR. Normally god metals are just a Shardic investiture leaking into PR, no sapience, no sentience, not even any self-awareness. Shardblade and even Shardplate are vastly different from that. 

Edited October 26 by alder24

[Quantus]

19 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think that's because Shardblades are sapient spren maniesting in the PR. Normally god metals are just a Shardic investiture leaking into PR, no sapience, no sentience, not even any self-awareness. Shardblade and even Shardplate are vastly different from that. 

So where do you think that shard of Ishar's Honorblade would fall, usable for Hemalurgy now that it's separated from the honorblade itself?  Similarly, is Purified Dor a Godmetal enough to be viable for Hemalurgy?  Are we assuming all "pure" Godmetals viable, absent the sapience and/or Identity issues?

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

So where do you think that shard of Ishar's Honorblade would fall, usable for Hemalurgy now that it's separated from the honorblade itself?

Yes.

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Similarly, is Purified Dor a Godmetal enough to be viable for Hemalurgy?

It's liquid, it's not a metal. If you somehow made Dor into a god metal, then it should work just fine. 

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Are we assuming all "pure" Godmetals viable, absent the sapience and/or Identity issues?

I would say so. Alloys would work too.

[Quantus]

19 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes.

It's liquid, it's not a metal. If you somehow made Dor into a god metal, then it should work just fine. 

I would say so. Alloys would work too.

Ah, you're right  For some reason I thought it appeared as ingots.