Feruchemy Daily Deep Dive

[Voidmaker he/him]

52 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 7:

F-Copper

The only downside is the way that Copperminds can be changed by strong enough forces, like Ruin. Certainly not too handy when you can't even trust your own memory.

As an Archivist, though, I think the more important ability is not to be able to remember anything, but also able to forget anything. Bad breakup? Actually, what breakup? Don't want to sign an NDA? Toss those memories away. Or, for more day-to-day things, you can reread your favorite books. Want to rewatch a good movie? Actually, you've never seen it before! The possibilities just keep climbing, with a fully malleable memory storage.

[Koloss17 She/They]

35 minutes ago, Voidwatcher said:

The only downside is the way that Copperminds can be changed by strong enough forces, like Ruin. Certainly not too handy when you can't even trust your own memory.

As an Archivist, though, I think the more important ability is not to be able to remember anything, but also able to forget anything. Bad breakup? Actually, what breakup? Don't want to sign an NDA? Toss those memories away. Or, for more day-to-day things, you can reread your favorite books. Want to rewatch a good movie? Actually, you've never seen it before! The possibilities just keep climbing, with a fully malleable memory storage.

Holy hell! I didn’t even consider being able to reread and rewatch things! And then you could compare your thoughts on each reread, which would be a cool indicator of how you’ve grown.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 7:

F-Copper

Well, this is well regarded to be one of the best Feruchemantic metals. And frankly, I think it’s for good reason. Immediate memory recall is really handy. Now admittedly, it isn’t constant memory recall, as you still have to access it, but it’s still really solid. It won’t make you good at everything, as a lot of skills are improved by constant use, but has there not been F-Tin, I would say this is the most versatile feruchemantic metal.

Rating: 8.5/10. Really good. It doesn’t increase your physical capabilities, but it enhances your mental capabilities so much that it more than makes up for that.

I mean, as huge nerds that crave lore, we’re all pretty biased towards this one

There are lots of ways I think this could be used.

Store memories of a favorite movie or read a book so that you can be pleasantly surprised every time you watch it again (but tap the memories when not about to watch it so you have the ability to think about it and let it influence your character).

Store memories of a terrible event to prevent yourself from developing PTSD or having a nightmare (extensive use would prevent you from continuing to grow tolerant to such forms of stress though).

For combat you could have a Coppermind piercing (to make it resistant to A-iron/steel) specifically dedicated to reminding you of tactics used in battle. This could be particularly useful for military leaders who could quickly look up historical battles to gain insight from them. I'd like to think it could be used on a more personal hand-to-hand forms of combat as well, but nothing direct comes to mind as of right now.

Perhaps you could store memories of fond events to tap latter and improve your mood when you really need it, or you could tap a memory of deep meditation to help clear your mind and leave you capable of dealing with a highly stressful situation (such as combat. See, there's a use for it already ).

It might be possible to use F-copper to alter your perception of an inanimate object enough to alter its Cognitive Aspect (primarily useful on Roshar, especially if you can get lots of people to use it via medallions).

You could probably use a trick to pass time quickly by storing the memory that comes directly to your mind while traveling on a plane or such- to your perception, you'd have just time skipped forward to the point in time where you wanted to be. Basically A-cadmium (for self only) but much cheaper and more reliable.

If you have the ability to mix powers (Hemalurgy or futuristic medallion tech) you could tap someone else's memories to change how you viewed yourself, then tap F-gold to change your physical appearance to perfectly mimic them, then tap your old memories back to restore your personality and sense of self. After a while you should be able to maintain the form even if you tapped F-gold, as it would have become a part of how you perceived your new self.

Building on this last idea, I think you could potentially use F-copper to help heal people of old wounds or genetic diseases by letting them change their perception of self enough to be able to heal via F-gold.

Honestly, I think that F-copper has some of the broadest uses for Feruchemy, especially considering the fact it can permanently alter your Cognitive Aspect at will. That's powerful, especially in the Cosmere where things like Perception and Intent play a large role.

[Duxredux he/him]

20 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 7:

F-Copper

Well, this is well regarded to be one of the best Feruchemantic metals. And frankly, I think it’s for good reason. Immediate memory recall is really handy. Now admittedly, it isn’t constant memory recall, as you still have to access it, but it’s still really solid. It won’t make you good at everything, as a lot of skills are improved by constant use, but has there not been F-Tin, I would say this is the most versatile feruchemantic metal.

 

Rating: 8.5/10. Really good. It doesn’t increase your physical capabilities, but it enhances your mental capabilities so much that it more than makes up for that.

 

I mean, as huge nerds that crave lore, we’re all pretty biased towards this one

You're missing a huge piece with the ability to share memories directly with someone. Wax was deeply affected by Kelsier's memory stored in the medallion at the end of BoM. With sufficient splicing and and if duplication of memories becomes plausible (two big ifs), then F-Copper could make the most immersive movies in the entire Cosmere. Direct memory complete with thought process and sensory input can totally beat out any visual display - though not sure if I personally would want anything quite that immersive. Watching Jackie Chan beat up thugs with a bicycle and a ladder is really funny but I'm not sure I would want to take the hits from the first person POV.

Trainings of all kinds could be dramatically improved if you can actually live a day in the life of what you are being trained to become. A gymnast actually feeling the motions used to do a proper tumble, a soldier maintaining situational awareness in a firefight, or as a janitor mentally going through the checklist of everything that needs to be done to prepare a building for the day. Being able to examine the mental process of a genius at work could be fascinating.

Combine unkeyed F-Copper with other abilities and you get other cool use cases. For example, if Marsh could share what he can sense as an extra powerful Seeker to someone without A-Bronze or what he sees via Steelsight. Being able to share with a deaf or blind person the memory of a symphony or a sunrise.  You could have some really sad stories of an Archivist who remembers hardly any of their favorite songs because they have given them to their deaf friend. There's so many possibilities even if powers start to become democratized.

There's some big if's here and we don't really know what the technology is capable of - but that almost certainly was a memory from Kelsier and he's almost certainly not an Archivist Ferring and Wax definitely isn't one either. That implies a huge number of possibilities and if memory duplication becomes possible those possibilities will grow exponentially.

 

I'll also note that Copper sounds really useful and it is - so long as you are organized and are fine keeping indices of what you have stored and have temporarily forgotten. In my opinion, Sazed is an extreme case of the effectiveness of F-Copper because frankly he's a genius. Give me a textbook to refer to constantly and I still wouldn't be half the surgeon or mechanical engineer that Sazed was. Realtime access to detailed information we currently have with the internet does not make me a master of plumbing, drywalling, or surgery. A good number of the personal use cases of F-copper will also be lessened by having similar access to the internet on a smartphone without having to walk around with big copper bracers. Being able to forget things can still be useful, but as accessibility to information grows, the disadvantage of having to forget the memory also increases. F-Copper has the potential to change a lot in later eras.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Duxredux

[Trusk'our he/him]

22 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Combine unkeyed F-Copper with other abilities and you get other cool use cases. For example, if Marsh could share what he can sense as an extra powerful Seeker to someone without A-Bronze or what he sees via Steelsight. Being able to share with a deaf or blind person the memory of a symphony or a sunrise.  You could have some really sad stories of an Archivist who remembers hardly any of their favorite songs because they have given them to their deaf friend. There's so many possibilities even if powers start to become democratized.

I love this idea. It does make me wonder though, would it even work? People who have lost certain senses typically have the portion of their brain responsible for interpreting that sense rerouted to augment their other senses, so there may not be any processing capacity to comprehend those memories of vision for a person who's been blind long enough.

Still, I could see lots of uses for this particular idea.

22 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

You're missing a huge piece with the ability to share memories directly with someone. Wax was deeply affected by Kelsier's memory stored in the medallion at the end of BoM. With sufficient splicing and and if duplication of memories becomes plausible (two big ifs), then F-Copper could make the most immersive movies in the entire Cosmere. Direct memory complete with thought process and sensory input can totally beat out any visual display - though not sure if I personally would want anything quite that immersive. Watching Jackie Chan beat up thugs with a bicycle and a ladder is really funny but I'm not sure I would want to take the hits from the first person POV.

Trainings of all kinds could be dramatically improved if you can actually live a day in the life of what you are being trained to become. A gymnast actually feeling the motions used to do a proper tumble, a soldier maintaining situational awareness in a firefight, or as a janitor mentally going through the checklist of everything that needs to be done to prepare a building for the day. Being able to examine the mental process of a genius at work could be fascinating.

Now that sounds like true VR technology waiting to be uncovered. Using it for training and recreational activities could be really fun and useful.

22 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

I'll also note that Copper sounds really useful and it is - so long as you are organized and are fine keeping indices of what you have stored and have temporarily forgotten. In my opinion, Sazed is an extreme case of the effectiveness of F-Copper because frankly he's a genius. Give me a textbook to refer to constantly and I still wouldn't be half the surgeon or mechanical engineer that Sazed was. Realtime access to detailed information we currently have with the internet does not make me a master of plumbing, drywalling, or surgery.

Yup, Sazed's essentially a genius when it comes to memory- he can memorize entire texts without the use of his Copperminds:

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/270/#e7794

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Forty-Nine - Part One

Sazed's Memorization Skills

Okay, long chapter here. I'll bet I have to split this annotation in two. But, let's launch into it. First off, you should know that Sazed tends to gloss over just how hard he had to work to memorize those copperminds of his in the first place. Keepers like him go through intense memorization training early in their lives, learning how to build near-photographic memories even before they use their metalminds. The goal of this, of course, is to train the mind to hold a perfect image of what it has read so that knowledge can be kept as pristine as possible before being shoved into the coppermind.

Generally, a Keeper can keep the entire contents of several books memorized in their head even without use of Feruchemy. Like a Muslim who memorizes the Koran, Sazed could take a book and memorize it word for word, then repeat it all back to you. He's trained himself in this skill for so long, however, that it seems mundane to him. Beyond that, the application of Feruchemy changes his abilities—and how he uses them—somewhat.

 

[Koloss17 She/They]

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 8:

F-Bronze

Aaaand now we’re back to less exciting. It helps ya sleep, it helps ya stay awake. From what I understand, it’s pretty cut and dry.  Is it useful? Of course! Is it powerful? Eh, not really. It’s the only metalmind you can fill in your sleep, so it is objectively the easiest metalmind to store. I’ll give it that.

Rating: 6/10. Nice, but not fantabulous. It’s above a 5 because it is the best at storing, and that is pretty cool. Plus, I think everyone would be more than happy to have the abilities of F-bronze at any given time.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Koloss17

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

It’s the only metalmind you can fill in your sleep, so it is objectively the easiest metalmind to store. I’ll give it that.

I disagree; Bendalloy would be easier (chug water constantly from the tap or devour your family's thanksgiving feast single handed), Brass would be easier (sit in a fire or a boiling bath), iron would be easier (Wax stores a full third of his weight pretty much all the time- and gets benefit from it), and nicrosil has the potential to be (just can't use the stored power at the time but can function normally otherwise).

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

Aaaand now we’re back to less exciting. It helps ya sleep, it helps ya stay awake. From what I understand, it’s pretty cut and dry.  Is it useful? Of course! Is it powerful? Eh, not really. 

There's a Youtube channel called RAFO that talks about Cosmere stuff, and in his Feruchemy video he mentioned the idea that you might be able to quantify and store specific aspects of "sleep" in a Bronzemind, such as the release of growth hormone (perhaps a Koloss could prevent giantism with this?).

I think that it might be possible (after all, F-tin and duralumin seem to be able to do such things with proper Intent). If it is possible, there could be a lot of interesting applications. . . I'll just have to research some more on sleep before I can figure all of it out.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Trusk'our

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 8:

F-Bronze

Aaaand now we’re back to less exciting. It helps ya sleep, it helps ya stay awake. From what I understand, it’s pretty cut and dry.  Is it useful? Of course! Is it powerful? Eh, not really. It’s the only metalmind you can fill in your sleep, so it is objectively the easiest metalmind to store. I’ll give it that.

Rating: 6/10. Nice, but not fantabulous. It’s above a 5 because it is the best at storing, and that is pretty cool. Plus, I think everyone would be more than happy to have the abilities of F-bronze at any given time.

I don't think you're looking at F-bronze in the right way.

First let's talk about storing. I think when you store wakefulness in your sleep, you will wake up like you haven't slept at all, or at least you won't get full benefits from it. That makes storing very inconvenient as you have to sacrifice several nights to later not sleep for several days - which makes sense, that's how Feruchemy works. Secondly you sleep on average around 6-8 hours per day, that means you have to store wakefulness for 3-4 nights, to be able to tap it just for 1 whole day. But storing wakefulness actually makes you fall in a coma-like state, it forces you to sleep longer than normally, which makes it even worse if you don't have time to waste half a day on sleeping - you don't have control over it. That's not great, it's not the worst attribute to store, but it isn't so easy to store that you would have a ton of it - Sazed in WoA proves it.

But you can store wakefulness from caffeine, which is nice, but it would feel different than wakefulness from sleeping.

Spoiler

Vodid

If you have caffeine, can you store that as wakefulness in a bronzemind?

Brandon Sanderson

I think that you can, but I think when you tap it out, you will have kind of the same effects, right. Like, you will feel like you are not quite as awake. Like that feeling you get, I think you guys know what I'm talking about. I think that you can, I think that you can hack the system with some things like that. That's my guess... That's my answer right now, but that's one pretty mutable, as we go forward.

Adam Horne

I'd be curious to see what you could do with that in Era 3, because pharmaceuticals will exist.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes well, you're already getting into the fact that you could replicate a lot of things, with... once they figure how to change types of Investiture and whatnot, then suddenly you've got some wacky things going on. Which is why a Mistborn cyberpunk would be so much fun, because metallurgic wetware would be fun. But no promises on that—I already have too many things to write. It's just that if I do write it, and I make it a trilogy, then we have sixteen books in the Mistborn series.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

Now the benefits. You get full benefits of a good night's sleep. You are not only aware but also tireless (as long as you have food and water), energetic, fully alert, with fast reflexes and your mind working in the best and quickest state. Imagine staying awake for a week straight, not getting tired from the lack of sleep with your mind being clear and focused. That's quite nice. You can fully concentrate on your task and your mind will always be at peak performance, thinking fast and clearly, not making stupid mistakes because you haven't slept for a while. Compared to the tired state, F-bronze gives you small benefits of several other metalminds, like F-zinc, F-pewter, F-steel,  F-tin or even F-copper or F-gold. Wakefulness simply enhances every attribute and function of your body - that's very handy. Plus if you suffer sleepless nights, being able to immediately fall asleep is very, very nice. 

Spoiler

mikkomikk

It just stores wakefulness right? I don't think it gives you the actual benefits of a good night's sleep. So after an extended period of bronze Compounding, your body will start deteriorating and eventually die.

Brandon Sanderson

Bronze Compounding will indeed let you never have to sleep. /u/mikkomikk as a good theory, as I haven't really talked about this, and that might be the way to theorize without more info--but it was designed to let people go without sleep, and does give benefits of a good night's sleep.

ElTigreChang1

Alternatively, could you compound copper for a supernatural sleeping aid? or would that just lead to accidentally sleeping for 16 hours

Brandon Sanderson

Copper? I don't see that working, I'm afraid. Did you mean bronze?

You could fill bronze to sleep. (This is actually the very first power for Mistborn I imagined, back in highschool. Wishing, as an insomniac, I could sleep when I wanted to and be rested when I wanted to.)

General Reddit 2019 (June 14, 2019)

 

I also wonder if F-bronze works like F-copper. I think it's quite likely, because how would it work if you tap it with diminishing returns? What does it mean to tap 300% of wakefulness? If that's possible, being hyper-awake would be very interesting and quite powerful in my opinion.

[Koloss17 She/They]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

mikkomikk

It just stores wakefulness right? I don't think it gives you the actual benefits of a good night's sleep. So after an extended period of bronze Compounding, your body will start deteriorating and eventually die.

Brandon Sanderson

Bronze Compounding will indeed let you never have to sleep. /u/mikkomikk as a good theory, as I haven't really talked about this, and that might be the way to theorize without more info--but it was designed to let people go without sleep, and does give benefits of a good night's sleep.

ElTigreChang1

Alternatively, could you compound copper for a supernatural sleeping aid? or would that just lead to accidentally sleeping for 16 hours

Brandon Sanderson

Copper? I don't see that working, I'm afraid. Did you mean bronze?

You could fill bronze to sleep. (This is actually the very first power for Mistborn I imagined, back in highschool. Wishing, as an insomniac, I could sleep when I wanted to and be rested when I wanted to.)

General Reddit 2019 (June 14, 2019)

 

I also wonder if F-bronze works like F-copper. I think it's quite likely, because how would it work if you tap it with diminishing returns? What does it mean to tap 300% of wakefulness? If that's possible, being hyper-awake would be very interesting and quite powerful in my opinion.

Mmm good points. however, I think the last part of that WoB seems to imply that Brandon envisioned it giving you a good night’s rest. Now, he might have since changed it, but this seems to give credit to my interpretation.

 

However, your other points still stand. What does 300% wakefulness work? That’s certainly something to think about.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 9:

F-Chromium

oookay. We’re getting into the spicy stuff. So. F-Chromium. When storing, you will be “unlucky”. When tapping, you will be more “lucky”. I’m putting those in quotes, because we know that Fortune in the Cosmere is more than just luck. It’s a small form of seeing the future, and it’s powerful. How powerful? We don’t really know. For the average Ferring, however, luck should do. I think this one is relatively harmless to store and very powerful to tap. How useful is it? I don’t know. I don’t really understand how this version of Fortune works, to be honest. 
 

Rating: 8/10. I don’t know what it does, but I know that it is good.

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Rating: 8/10. I don’t know what it does, but I know that it is good.

If this statement were for anything other than F-chromium (or F-duralumin), I'd be highly skeptical of your decision-making abilities 

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 9:

F-Chromium

oookay. We’re getting into the spicy stuff. So. F-Chromium. When storing, you will be “unlucky”. When tapping, you will be more “lucky”. I’m putting those in quotes, because we know that Fortune in the Cosmere is more than just luck. It’s a small form of seeing the future, and it’s powerful. How powerful? We don’t really know. For the average Ferring, however, luck should do. I think this one is relatively harmless to store and very powerful to tap. How useful is it? I don’t know. I don’t really understand how this version of Fortune works, to be honest. 

This is an interesting one, mostly because it's going to be useful for just about everything- I can see no activity that wouldn't benefit from having more Fortune at your disposal (except maybe trying to hide your use of F-chromium from skilled Seekers).

There is definitely a lack of information on what exactly Fortune does, but from what it sounds like it's a kind of "gut feeling" or instinct that lets one get subconscious hints of things coming to pass. It is also apparently tied to one's closeness to the SR, so highly Invested beings can probably access it more easily in general; 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/456/#e14679

alercah

Do regular people in the cosmere have an innate, subconscious ability to read the Spiritual Realm just a little bit, that might manifest as gut instinct or intuition?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, in the cosmere, there is some validity to "gut" instincts in some people with a closer connection to the Spiritual.

Rhythm of War spoilers;

Spoiler

And then apparently there's a "matching" of Fortune, which fits well with the concept of it being somewhat random. Don't think it changes much really, but here's the WoB; 

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15237

Questioner

Close to the end of Rhythm of War, Dalinar Connects Kaladin to something, which gives him the vision of Tien. Did he Connect him to Tien's dead soul, and if so, does Dalinar know what he did?

Brandon Sanderson

There are two prevailing theories on what happened here among cosmerenauts, in-world Arcanists. You would get two different answers. The most common answer is, Dalinar attached himself to the Spiritual Realm, pulled out possibilities, and showed one of those to Kaladin.

Questioner

If so, where did the horse come from?

Brandon Sanderson

Either pure coincidence, or some sort of matching of Fortune to the moment, that ended up leading Kaladin to the place he needed to be, which is the way a lot of Fortune works. Fortune would be like, "You should go here," and you don't even know why. That's what the Arcanist answer would be, it would be the most common answer. Some people would say he reached into the Beyond and connected Tien to Kaladin via Tien's actual soul. I will leave these both as equally valid theories. As I've said many times, I'm not gonna say whether there is an actual afterlife in the cosmere because it is too foundational to too many characters' beliefs, or lack of beliefs, or worldview in-world to have the author contradict them either way.

 

In any case, it's hard to think of a ton of special ways to use F-chromium- it's so broad in its use that you could apply it to just about anything; you could fight better by dodging or striking a little more accurately by strengthening your instincts, you could make better business/investment decisions, you could compose a better song by being "in tune" with the music better, you could find your lost pocket knife way more easily, you could get to work faster by avoiding the traffic jam unknown to you by intuitively taking a different route, you could win the heart of you crush by saying just the right thing at the right time, you could save a friend from assassins by feeling you should show up at their house at just the right time, you could avoid assassination yourself by "feeling" out of place and avoiding the poisoned coffee or dynamite trap rigged to your door, etc.

On the extreme end of things, it's likely that by tapping enough Fortune you could straight up crack open the SR to your mind and see the future consciously, though it would take a lot of Investiture to make that work clearly instead of being a maybe-sort-of gut feeling, I'd think.

[Koloss17 She/They]

22 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

If this statement were for anything other than F-chromium (or F-duralumin), I'd be highly skeptical of your decision-making abilities 

This is an interesting one, mostly because it's going to be useful for just about everything- I can see no activity that wouldn't benefit from having more Fortune at your disposal (except maybe trying to hide your use of F-chromium from skilled Seekers).

There is definitely a lack of information on what exactly Fortune does, but from what it sounds like it's a kind of "gut feeling" or instinct that lets one get subconscious hints of things coming to pass. It is also apparently tied to one's closeness to the SR, so highly Invested beings can probably access it more easily in general; 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/456/#e14679

alercah

Do regular people in the cosmere have an innate, subconscious ability to read the Spiritual Realm just a little bit, that might manifest as gut instinct or intuition?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, in the cosmere, there is some validity to "gut" instincts in some people with a closer connection to the Spiritual.

Rhythm of War spoilers;

  Reveal hidden contents

And then apparently there's a "matching" of Fortune, which fits well with the concept of it being somewhat random. Don't think it changes much really, but here's the WoB; 

 

In any case, it's hard to think of a ton of special ways to use F-chromium- it's so broad in its use that you could apply it to just about anything; you could fight better by dodging or striking a little more accurately by strengthening your instincts, you could make better business/investment decisions, you could compose a better song by being "in tune" with the music better, you could find your lost pocket knife way more easily, you could get to work faster by avoiding the traffic jam unknown to you by intuitively taking a different route, you could win the heart of you crush by saying just the right thing at the right time, you could save a friend from assassins by feeling you should show up at their house at just the right time, you could avoid assassination yourself by "feeling" out of place and avoiding the poisoned coffee or dynamite trap rigged to your door, etc.

On the extreme end of things, it's likely that by tapping enough Fortune you could straight up crack open the SR to your mind and see the future consciously, though it would take a lot of Investiture to make that work clearly instead of being a maybe-sort-of gut feeling, I'd think.

You know what, until there’s a better answer, I’ll just agree with what you said! Luck is good, and unluck is bad.

 

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 10:

F-Nicrosil

So as we know, this one is interesting. It is the key (heh) to unsealed metalminds, and has a lot of things about it that we just don’t know. Now. Is it any good in its own? No. Not at all. Rubbish.

But I’ll be bending the rules for this one a little bit, because I don’t think this is a metal that was envisioned to be seen in isolation. 
 

So. F-Nicrosil stores Investiture. From what we understand, it specifically stores innate Investiture. The ability to do the magic. It’s then stored away to be used later. Does it replenish over time? If a twinborn stores their ability to to their allomantic thing and waits a while, will they just organically be able to do allomancy again?

This WoB seems to say that it doesn’t work like that, but this was written in 2018, so things could very much have changed.

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

assuming it works like that, it is still just kinda useless except for if you are a full feruchemist. However, Brando Sando also said that medallion Nicrosil is “more restrictive”.

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

So, let’s assume, for the sake of fun and the sake of interesting, that your ability to use your magic replenishes over time. I’d guess that it would have something to do with spiritual identity, but it doesn’t really matter. However, I would guess that no matter how it would replenish, it isn’t something that just happens overnight. So this is a longer-storing attribute that you gather over time.

so what does tapping it do? I would assume that it would enhance your ability. Make you get more bang for your buck. Generally, if you have an ability to enhance, this would be pretty dope.

Now, however long it takes to regain the ability to do the magic would also be the amount of time it would take to have your ability’s strength go back to normal. So this isn’t a super short term buff either.

With that in mind, I’ll be giving this interpretation of F-Nicrosil a 7.5. It has potential to be higher or lower, depending on the power, but for most powers, this seems like a good deal. Lose out on your abilities for a while only to have them come back stronger.

 

 

Now, this is only one of about 20 interpretations of how F-Nicrosil works. If you have a better interpretation that you would like to offer (or if you have some extra secret knowledge *cough cough* @alder24), then please do comment!

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

You know what, until there’s a better answer, I’ll just agree with what you said! Luck is good, and unluck is bad.

 

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 10:

F-Nicrosil

So as we know, this one is interesting. It is the key (heh) to unsealed metalminds, and has a lot of things about it that we just don’t know. Now. Is it any good in its own? No. Not at all. Rubbish.

But I’ll be bending the rules for this one a little bit, because I don’t think this is a metal that was envisioned to be seen in isolation. 
 

So. F-Nicrosil stores Investiture. From what we understand, it specifically stores innate Investiture. The ability to do the magic. It’s then stored away to be used later. Does it replenish over time? If a twinborn stores their ability to to their allomantic thing and waits a while, will they just organically be able to do allomancy again?

This WoB seems to say that it doesn’t work like that, but this was written in 2018, so things could very much have changed.

  Hide contents

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

assuming it works like that, it is still just kinda useless except for if you are a full feruchemist. However, Brando Sando also said that medallion Nicrosil is “more restrictive”.

  Hide contents

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

So, let’s assume, for the sake of fun and the sake of interesting, that your ability to use your magic replenishes over time. I’d guess that it would have something to do with spiritual identity, but it doesn’t really matter. However, I would guess that no matter how it would replenish, it isn’t something that just happens overnight. So this is a longer-storing attribute that you gather over time.

so what does tapping it do? I would assume that it would enhance your ability. Make you get more bang for your buck. Generally, if you have an ability to enhance, this would be pretty dope.

Now, however long it takes to regain the ability to do the magic would also be the amount of time it would take to have your ability’s strength go back to normal. So this isn’t a super short term buff either.

With that in mind, I’ll be giving this interpretation of F-Nicrosil a 7.5. It has potential to be higher or lower, depending on the power, but for most powers, this seems like a good deal. Lose out on your abilities for a while only to have them come back stronger.

Now, this is only one of about 20 interpretations of how F-Nicrosil works. If you have a better interpretation that you would like to offer (or if you have some extra secret knowledge *cough cough* @alder24), then please do comment!

Oof, yeah, F-nicrosil is very poorly understood at this time.

It could work in a number of ways, but we don't know the specifics.

The only thing I could say it might be able to do on its own at this point is perhaps heighten your raw Investiture by storing F-nicrosil's own power. This could let you resist a lot of other sources of Investiture and may even be the ideal Feruchemical metal to do so with, as Allomancers are more highly Invested than non-Metalborn, meaning that powers would provide more raw Investiture for tapping than other attributes. Plus, it would be easy to store as it wouldn't cause too many problems for the Feruchemist (as its not doing much on its own anyway).

Minor Warbreaker spoilers;

Spoiler

It's also possible to make yourself into a temporary Drab, hiding from Awakeners and other Investiture-sensing entities; 

Quote

Kraków signing - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Oversleep

Could a Feruchemist hide from Lifesense by storing and which metals?

Brandon Sanderson

So Lifesense on Nalthis, someone storing, what now, Investiture? Could they hide from Lifesense? Um, yeah that would work.

Oversleep

And which metals would they need to store, Investiture, Connection…

Brandon Sanderson

That would probably be Investiture, that’s theoretically plausible, hiding your entire sense, a little bit easier with a copper cloud, which is how you would normally go about it, but you could make your Investiture vanish to the point that… yeah I think that’s theoretically possible.

Oversleep

So Lifesense works on Connection?

Brandon Sanderson

Lifesense works by sensing… life, so it’s not necessarily just Connection because you can go off-world from Nalthis and still sense the life to which you are not Connected.

 

But we don't know if it would actually let you do this or whether it's like copper and doesn't let you multiply the attribute's effects. We just don't know enough about it yet.

[..... he/him]

29 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

You know what, until there’s a better answer, I’ll just agree with what you said! Luck is good, and unluck is bad.

 

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 10:

F-Nicrosil

So as we know, this one is interesting. It is the key (heh) to unsealed metalminds, and has a lot of things about it that we just don’t know. Now. Is it any good in its own? No. Not at all. Rubbish.

But I’ll be bending the rules for this one a little bit, because I don’t think this is a metal that was envisioned to be seen in isolation. 
 

So. F-Nicrosil stores Investiture. From what we understand, it specifically stores innate Investiture. The ability to do the magic. It’s then stored away to be used later. Does it replenish over time? If a twinborn stores their ability to to their allomantic thing and waits a while, will they just organically be able to do allomancy again?

This WoB seems to say that it doesn’t work like that, but this was written in 2018, so things could very much have changed.

  Reveal hidden contents

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

assuming it works like that, it is still just kinda useless except for if you are a full feruchemist. However, Brando Sando also said that medallion Nicrosil is “more restrictive”.

  Reveal hidden contents

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

So, let’s assume, for the sake of fun and the sake of interesting, that your ability to use your magic replenishes over time. I’d guess that it would have something to do with spiritual identity, but it doesn’t really matter. However, I would guess that no matter how it would replenish, it isn’t something that just happens overnight. So this is a longer-storing attribute that you gather over time.

so what does tapping it do? I would assume that it would enhance your ability. Make you get more bang for your buck. Generally, if you have an ability to enhance, this would be pretty dope.

Now, however long it takes to regain the ability to do the magic would also be the amount of time it would take to have your ability’s strength go back to normal. So this isn’t a super short term buff either.

With that in mind, I’ll be giving this interpretation of F-Nicrosil a 7.5. It has potential to be higher or lower, depending on the power, but for most powers, this seems like a good deal. Lose out on your abilities for a while only to have them come back stronger.

 

 

Now, this is only one of about 20 interpretations of how F-Nicrosil works. If you have a better interpretation that you would like to offer (or if you have some extra secret knowledge *cough cough* @alder24), then please do comment!

There are a few things I'd like to say one you know that your strength is a part of your spirit web because you can have allergically steal it and when you start me you're probably snoring that bit of your spirit web but it pops bad back immediately when you stop so when you stop storing me so it should pop back immediately because it's just another part of your spirit fortunate part of your spirit web that probably pops back immediately too and the second you stop tapping goes back to normal also.  but if you're asking about applications I think you could store your innate investiture from preservation to become a misting or mistborn for a little while you might not be able to control whether you become a misting or mistborn though still pretty cool and maybe powerful 

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, ..... said:

but if you're asking about applications I think you could store your innate investiture from preservation to become a misting or mistborn for a little while you might not be able to control whether you become a misting or mistborn though still pretty cool and maybe powerful 

That would be pretty cool, but I don't know if it would work, since it seems like you'd need to Snap to activate and possibly program the power. You may just end up with something akin to the Heightenings, but that in and of itself is pretty powerful too.

2 hours ago, ..... said:

There are a few things I'd like to say one you know that your strength is a part of your spirit web because you can have allergically steal it and when you start me you're probably snoring that bit of your spirit web but it pops bad back immediately when you stop so when you stop storing me so it should pop back immediately because it's just another part of your spirit fortunate part of your spirit web that probably pops back immediately too and the second you stop tapping goes back to normal also.

That's a fair point. It's my belief that not all Feruchemical powers actually draw from the SR to fuel their Metalminds- Bendalloy, brass, and cadmium all seem to draw from the PR, and their attributes don't snap back into place after the Feruchemist stops storing; they are simply excised completely until the Feruchemist taps them again. Copper seems to draw directly from the CR and works under a similar principle.

If this is true, it points to F-nicrosil being a snap-back-to-shape ability rather than an excise-until-tapped ability.

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

This WoB seems to say that it doesn’t work like that, but this was written in 2018, so things could very much have changed.

That's about medallions which we know they work differently than normal F-nicrosil.

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

 

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

So. F-Nicrosil stores Investiture. From what we understand, it specifically stores innate Investiture. The ability to do the magic. It’s then stored away to be used later. Does it replenish over time? If a twinborn stores their ability to to their allomantic thing and waits a while, will they just organically be able to do allomancy again?

I think F-nicrosil works just like other metalminds, not like a Coppermind - you store some power for an hour, then you tap it for an hour and you're 2x stronger - it would work well with Metallic Arts, allowing you to become like TLR if you tap with diminishing returns. That's where the real power of F-nicrosil is - you might be able to tap so much of it that you would have the strength of Vin Ascending for just a fraction of a second.

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

So, let’s assume, for the sake of fun and the sake of interesting, that your ability to use your magic replenishes over time. I’d guess that it would have something to do with spiritual identity, but it doesn’t really matter. However, I would guess that no matter how it would replenish, it isn’t something that just happens overnight. So this is a longer-storing attribute that you gather over time.

I don't really get what you mean by "ability to use your magic replenishes over time". No Feruchemy "replenishes overnight" or something like that - you stop storing, you have 100% of your attribute. The only different attribute are memories, which you permanently store (Identity is also very likely to work like that). Assuming F-nicrosil works just like all other attributes, you stop storing, you have your powers as normally. You tap them, you have their strength increased - even if you store them you most likely can't store 100% of their power, so you would still be able to use some weak powers, like weak steelpushes etc. 

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

With that in mind, I’ll be giving this interpretation of F-Nicrosil a 7.5. It has potential to be higher or lower, depending on the power, but for most powers, this seems like a good deal. Lose out on your abilities for a while only to have them come back stronger.

The other use of F-nicrosil is to just make medallions, you don't need to have any other power, just a group of Metalborn. That's very powerful as you can give yourself all other powers by medallions (which probably can't be stored by your own power as those powers are locked in medallion, not in you), or just make an army of Metalborn.

Spoiler

Yata

If you have 32 Misting and Ferring, every kind possible, without using Hemalurgy, you can craft a medallion? Without the aftermath of the--

Brandon Sanderson

So could you craft a medallion... without-- oh. That should be possible, but this is one of the things where I have to dig out the notes and double-check myself. But this should be possible.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Now, this is only one of about 20 interpretations of how F-Nicrosil works. If you have a better interpretation that you would like to offer (or if you have some extra secret knowledge *cough cough* @alder24), then please do comment!

Unfortunately, the secrets I possess are granted only to members of Zincpremacy. You would have to renounce your allegiance to the F-tin cult and stop being so zincless  

But in all seriousness, I think F-nicrosil works like all other metals. It makes its use so much simpler and more powerful. No secret knowledge from me, I don't have such Connections  

 

10 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Oof, yeah, F-nicrosil is very poorly understood at this time.

It could work in a number of ways, but we don't know the specifics.

The only thing I could say it might be able to do on its own at this point is perhaps heighten your raw Investiture by storing F-nicrosil's own power. This could let you resist a lot of other sources of Investiture and may even be the ideal Feruchemical metal to do so with, as Allomancers are more highly Invested than non-Metalborn, meaning that powers would provide more raw Investiture for tapping than other attributes. Plus, it would be easy to store as it wouldn't cause too many problems for the Feruchemist (as its not doing much on its own anyway).

Minor Warbreaker spoilers;

  Reveal hidden contents

It's also possible to make yourself into a temporary Drab, hiding from Awakeners and other Investiture-sensing entities; 

 

But we don't know if it would actually let you do this or whether it's like copper and doesn't let you multiply the attribute's effects. We just don't know enough about it yet.

Oh, that's a good use of pure F-nicrosil. That would certainly work. Just by storing F-nicrosil and later tapping lots of it, you can temporarily become so invested that you would just ignore all attempts of emotional Allomancy on you, or other forms of investiture acting on you. Small Warbreaker spoiler WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

God-King versus God-King. Susebron versus Rashek, who comes out on top?

Brandon Sanderson

Rashek, probably.

Questioner

By a lot or a little?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, here's the thing. I think Susebron is at the disadvantage in almost every situation.

Questioner

Okay. How so?

Brandon Sanderson

Rashek has been alive longer. Rashek knows what he's doing. Rashek has martial training. Rashek has killed a lot of people, Susebron never has. Fewer scruples. His magic is way more combat-oriented. He can get out of range a lot easier. He has power emotional Allomancy, which Susebron would *inaudible*.

Granted, he's got so much investiture, he may be able to shrug that off. But still, I would put Rashek at the advantage.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

45 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Oh, that's a good use of pure F-nicrosil. That would certainly work. Just by storing F-nicrosil and later tapping lots of it, you can temporarily become so invested that you would just ignore all attempts of emotional Allomancy on you, or other forms of investiture acting on you. Small Warbreaker spoiler WoB:

  Hide contents

Questioner

God-King versus God-King. Susebron versus Rashek, who comes out on top?

Brandon Sanderson

Rashek, probably.

Questioner

By a lot or a little?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, here's the thing. I think Susebron is at the disadvantage in almost every situation.

Questioner

Okay. How so?

Brandon Sanderson

Rashek has been alive longer. Rashek knows what he's doing. Rashek has martial training. Rashek has killed a lot of people, Susebron never has. Fewer scruples. His magic is way more combat-oriented. He can get out of range a lot easier. He has power emotional Allomancy, which Susebron would *inaudible*.

Granted, he's got so much investiture, he may be able to shrug that off. But still, I would put Rashek at the advantage.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

My thoughts exactly.

More slight Warbreaker spoilers;

Spoiler

It makes me wonder if you could potentially get other aspects of the Heightenings by storing Innate Investiture, such as agelessness, Lifesense, or perfect pitch. These functions would be impossible to sustain constantly, even with Compounding (Allomancy just isn't that strong in most cases to be able to fuel such an interaction), so agelessness wouldn't be very practical through this method, but maybe the other abilities could work?

 

[Koloss17 She/They]

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 11:

F-Aluminum

So F-Aluminum stores spiritual identity, which is…interesting. We know it gives unkeyed metalminds, but past that, we don’t really know what having an empty spiritual identity, or an overfull spiritual identity is. Sooooo I don’t know what to do here. I mean, unkeyed metalminds are pretty cool, so that’s nice. But I can’t really create a rating based off of that. Any suggestions and theories are welcome, but I’m at a bit of a loss.

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 11:

F-Aluminum

So F-Aluminum stores spiritual identity, which is…interesting. We know it gives unkeyed metalminds, but past that, we don’t really know what having an empty spiritual identity, or an overfull spiritual identity is. Sooooo I don’t know what to do here. I mean, unkeyed metalminds are pretty cool, so that’s nice. But I can’t really create a rating based off of that. Any suggestions and theories are welcome, but I’m at a bit of a loss.

This is another ability that works best with other invested arts. Yes, creation of unkeyed and unsealed medallions is nice, but there are other stuff you can do with Identity. Identity is related to your spiritual ideal of self (I'm pretty sure there was a WoB on that), and tapping/storing identity will affect your healing:

Spoiler

Questioner

We know that magical healing has a lot to do with Identity, like Lopen and Rysn. Suppose someone was tapping Identity from an unkeyed metalmind, and then you tried to heal them with any kind of magical healing. What would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Most likely, that person’s perspective of themself is going to filter that unkeyed metalmind, and so what’s going to happen is what would normally happen to that person. In most instances. There are ways to get around that, but the vast majority, that’s what you’re gonna see.

Questioner

And if they were storing Identity instead?

Brandon Sanderson

Then you’re gonna go back to their Cognitive picture of themselves, which is going to be what’s filtering this, how they see themselves. If you knock them unconscious, they can’t see themselves, you’re blanking them of Identity, and things like that. They still, basically, will have… it’s gonna be really hard to get that all separated. The mental picture of themselves still exists on the Spiritual Realm. Remember, Realmatics is based on Plato’s theories of the forms, but your perspective is what’s shaping that. So there’s still gonna be, like, on the Spiritual Realm, there’s gonna be some version of yourself that is deeply influenced by how you view yourself that is going to be what that Investiture is trying to match, it’s trying to bring your body into alignment with that. So you’ve gotta replace that thing if you want it to do something different. Which you can do with Hemalurgy.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

 

Spoiler

realhitvz

Could you use the Feruchemical ability to store Identity to heal damage done to you in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Um... yes, but it's gonna take a roundabout method to make it happen... Yes, but Identity can be very useful for all sorts of things like this.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

Blanking your Identity would make it easier for you to access other Feruchemist metalminds:

Spoiler

Questioner

In Mistborn, we know if someone puts their Identity into a metalmind, they can create metalminds other people can use. Would other people be able to use that aluminummind to overwrite their own Identity, or is it still tied to the creator because it was still keyed to their Identity when they were filling it?

Brandon Sanderson

So if you have no Identity and you fill a metalmind, that metalmind is full of Identity-less...

Questioner

Yeah, so anyone can use that. But can someone use your aluminummind?

Brandon Sanderson

Ooh wait a minute, so...that you filled with your Identity. So they would have to have your Identity already. 

Questioner

Ok, so you can't have two people fill Identity and effectively swap aluminumminds.

Brandon Sanderson

If you can...there are ways to make this happen but the best way to make what you're talking about happen, is to be filling your own Identity while having a blank metalmind. That is the best way, obviously. But there are other workarounds for both situations, like a blank metalmind is pretty easy to use. It's blank. But if you were blank, and using a blank, it's a little better. 

Questioner

Ok. Because you're both blank.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, and so I'll give you the mechanics of all this eventually, they're just trying to still figure it all out themselves. Because right now they're just doing things they've been told "do this" but they don't know the why's. But if you are blank and have a metalmind that has an Identity, right, that is not an impossible situation that you're in either.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

Also being Identityless makes you more susceptible to influence of investiture and invested arts.

Spoiler

sebarial

Would a Feruchemist actively storing Identity be more susceptible to Forgery? Would more outlandish changes be able to take effect? Thanks for your time, and have a wonderful day.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, if you store Identity, it makes you susceptible to ALL KINDS of things in the Cosmere. Forgery would be on the short list.

bubblebooy

Does the difficulty of affecting metals in a body with Allomancy have to do with Identity?

Brandon Sanderson

No, more to do with the fact that most people are innately Invested in the Cosmere--and certain planets have extra Investiture. Something Invested is more difficult to transform/move/etc with another form of Investiture.

bubblebooy

That is what I had originally thought before you capitalized "ALL KINDS." Is Soulcasting people like Jasnah Kholin did doubly hard since people a have a strong sense of Identity and have innate Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

We're getting a bit far on this course, so it's time to pull out the RAFOs. I don't want to overplay my hand and leave the books without anything to talk about.

Phantine

Does that 'inside a body' thing work on most magics?

For instance, if Han stuck Luke into a Mistborn Tauntaun (a distant and unlucky relative of the mistborn llama), would Luke be protected from both the cold and emotional allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

He'd have to get him inside a living one.

It does work on most magics, though the interactions can be odd unless you know a lot about the workings. Emotional Allomancy, for example, works by lapping against the outsides of someone's cognitive self, influencing you the way music might stir your soul. So being inside a living body wouldn't necessarily stop it--you'd just have more interference. Kind of like how you can still hear music outside if it's loud enough.

Actual mind control in the cosmere requires you to get INSIDE the soul, which you've seen happen frequently enough. There has to be a gap or an opening.

Or, conversely, you just have to be so powerful that you can push through the interference.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

 

 

The question I have is does aluminum actually store your Identity or only blanks it? If it stores, you can tap it, if it blanks, you can't tap it, you have no Identity as long as you "storing", but the aluminum has no Feruchemical charge in it, nothing to tap it back. So you wouldn't be able to tap someone else's Identity. There are WoBs that suggest you can tap Identity, but because of how secretive Brandon is about this part of Feruchemy, he might simply not want to reveal how F-aluminum really works, until he writes it (he RAFO most questions about it after all). But it makes sense that Aluminum won't hold any invested charge, it's a special metal, it can't be Forged, it can't be Soulcasted, it can't hold Breaths - so it doesn't make sense that it would somehow be able to hold Feruchemical charge. That's why I think F-aluminum blanks your Identity but doesn't store it.

Spoiler

Argent

On Nalthis, can aluminum prevent somebody from Returning? So if you kill somebody with aluminum and leave the weapon in them?

Brandon Sanderson

I don't think that's going to be enough. I think that…

Argent

Different way then?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah there are totally ways. I don’t think that that’s going to be enough. There's a difference between being inert and blocking Investiture, and actually sucking out Investiture. If you stuck Nightblood inside of a corpse; there are certain things… if you had a larkin or whatever sitting there that ingests the Investiture as it was coming in, that would prevent [Returning]. I think with aluminum you would just have somebody that comes alive with a wound, so maybe... But I think it would just heal around [the aluminum] and you'd just have a spike in you, kind of like Hemalurgy—but not like Hemalurgy. It's inert, but you know what I mean.

Argent

Which suggests you can't actually Awaken aluminum.

Brandon Sanderson

No. It's not going to hold a charge.

Kurkistan

I assume you can't Forge it, either.

Brandon Sanderson

No. In fact the unForgable metal-

Argent

Ralkalest?

Brandon Sanderson

There's an unForgeable metal mentioned.

Kurkistan

Could we call it aluminum if we wanted to?

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say that aluminum through most cultures was considered a mythological metal, and when people could actually find some, they considered it more valuable than gold, in our culture. So just sayin'...

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

 

[Koloss17 She/They]

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 12:

F-Duralumin

 

Alrighty. This one is certainly an interesting one. So interesting that there’s a whole (now sadly vacant) cult dedicated to it! Connection is such a vague thing, which is what makes this an exceptionally fun metal. It’s probably one of the best for a worldhopper to have, but even without that, it’s quite nice. Storing it let’s you move about undetected, and tapping lets you make friendships with people insanely quickly. Who needs emotional allomancy when you got friendship magic!

I think this is a very good metal, but it seems to be a bit mid for not political/diplomatic purposes. Like-when are you going to use this in a fight, or just in daily life? It’s cool, yeah, but weirdly narrow.

Rating: 7.5/10. Definitely nice, but I feel like it would be weirdly useless to a lot of people and occupations.

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 12:

F-Duralumin

 

Alrighty. This one is certainly an interesting one. So interesting that there’s a whole (now sadly vacant) cult dedicated to it! Connection is such a vague thing, which is what makes this an exceptionally fun metal. It’s probably one of the best for a worldhopper to have, but even without that, it’s quite nice. Storing it let’s you move about undetected, and tapping lets you make friendships with people insanely quickly. Who needs emotional allomancy when you got friendship magic!

I think this is a very good metal, but it seems to be a bit mid for not political/diplomatic purposes. Like-when are you going to use this in a fight, or just in daily life? It’s cool, yeah, but weirdly narrow.

Rating: 7.5/10. Definitely nice, but I feel like it would be weirdly useless to a lot of people and occupations.

Oh boy, there are a lot of things that could potentially be done with F-duralumin.

My personal thought is that duralumin is by far the most versatile of the Feruchmical powers, but I think it would require the most Realmatic Awareness to achieve those results. Basically, a Connector Ferring could store most spiritual Connections they have (including those to people, places, and times, as well as perhaps thoughts) which could have some very interesting results, but they'd have to know what they were doing in order to store and tap it in the firsts place.

I think by Connecting to Ruin or Preservation via F-duralumin you may be able to gain insights into the Metallic Arts, and by storing Connection to Ruin you may be able to sidestep control by that Shard while bearing Hemalurgic spikes (though you may not be able to use Allomancy granted by those spikes though, as they should need a Connection to Ruin to function).

We know you can tap Connection to a person to befriend them, and I believe you could tap enough Connection to form an empathic or perhaps even telepathic form of communication.

SA spoilers;

Spoiler

Just as Kaladin is able to sense Syl's emotions and to some degree thoughts/words via their Bond. We also see some form of telepathic communication happen with Harmony and Wax through Connection, as well as with Telsin and Wax through Connection.

You could probably find a location by tapping Connection to that place or track a person, similar to the Messengers that can track people through the CR to deliver mail.

You may theoretically be able to bind someone to you via Connection, though it would probably require a lot of Connection, and the type of Connection may matter.

Yumi spoilers;

Spoiler

We see this happening with Yumi and Painter; neither one is able to travel far from the other.

I think I did a thread that talked about some of the possibilities of F-duralumin before on the Cosmere Forum. I'll have to check and see if I can find it.

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 12:

F-Duralumin

 

Alrighty. This one is certainly an interesting one. So interesting that there’s a whole (now sadly vacant) cult dedicated to it! Connection is such a vague thing, which is what makes this an exceptionally fun metal. It’s probably one of the best for a worldhopper to have, but even without that, it’s quite nice. Storing it let’s you move about undetected, and tapping lets you make friendships with people insanely quickly. Who needs emotional allomancy when you got friendship magic!

I think this is a very good metal, but it seems to be a bit mid for not political/diplomatic purposes. Like-when are you going to use this in a fight, or just in daily life? It’s cool, yeah, but weirdly narrow.

Rating: 7.5/10. Definitely nice, but I feel like it would be weirdly useless to a lot of people and occupations.

Connection is "useless"? It sounds like you're biased because F-duralumin is a rivaling cult to yours. You can Connect yourself to a Shard and Ascend - that's what Ire's Orb that Kelsier used had inside - lots of Connection to Preservations. Useless?

Everything that involves Connection can be manipulated by you. Everything. And because all things do involve Connection, you can do a lot. Connection is probably the most important thing in Cosmere. You can speak the languages of the local population, that's very handy for regular tourists. Metallic Arts (and most invested arts) are granted via Connection to Preservation from your Preservation's fragment - what would happen if you just tap a ton of that specific Connection? Could you snap and become a Mistborn (a very weak one as that Connection would go back to normal, but the invested art might stay)? You can certainly grant yourself invested arts from other places by tapping right Connections, or sidestep some limitations of those invested arts (again, F-duralumin is far more useful in combination with other invested arts).

Connection also is responsible for your age - you might be able to change your age better than with F-Atium by manipulating your Connection to time.

Spoiler

Doom-Slayer

So how do the exact mechanics of Feruchemy in relation to Compounding work?

This confusion is primarily around how [the Lord Ruler] gets his near infinite age.

Okay. So first off, I understand the concept of how they work. Feruchemy is net zero, Allomancy is net positive, combine them and you end with a net positive Feruchemy ability.

So how Feruchemy normally works... you take say weight, store half your normal weight and then you can access it whenever you want. So you (originally X weight) are taking A weight, storing it, and then you are at (X-A) weight, with access to A. So we have a metalmind that store magnitude with the efficiency of how its received based on how quickly or slowly it is drawn upon.

All the metalminds except atium seem to act this way. Atium seems to work as storing magnitude/time rather than just magnitude. The way I understand it is that say a 30 year old person becomes 50 years old for 1 day, this would give access to 20 years difference for a 1 day period.

The Lord Ruler then exploits this by gaining access to say 20 years difference over 10 days (magnification by Compounding) which he then slowly feeds into himself to lower his age.

Why this difference? I'm assuming its to maintain a neutral "body age" because with just magnitude a person could permanently make themselves younger by Compounding.

With just magnitude of "20 years of youth" being stored, if the Lord Ruler magnified it, he could turn it into "200 years of youth" and then he would never need the constant stream off youth (and wouldn't have died without the bracelets)

Hope this makes sense.

Brandon Sanderson

All right, so there are a few things you have to understand about cosmere magics to grok all of this.

First, is that magics can be hacked together. You'll see more of this in the future of the cosmere, but an early one is the hack here--where you're essentially powering Feruchemy with Allomancy. (A little more complex than that, but it seems like you get the idea.)

The piece you're missing is the nature of a person's Spiritual aspect. This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw Investiture. The soul, you might say.

(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their Cognitive aspect as well, and the Cognitive aspect can interfere with the Spiritual aspect trying to make the Physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your Physical self with your Spiritual self--making the Physical regrow. More powerful forms of Investiture can repair the soul as well.

However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what Investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true.

So the Spiritual aspect will push for a restoration to the way you should be. With this Compounding hack (added by me - compounding Atium), you're not changing connection; it's a purely Physical Realm change.

This dichotomy cannot remain for long. And the greater the disparity, the more pressure the spirit will exert. Ten or twenty years won't matter much. A thousand will matter a lot. So the only way to use Compounding to change your age is to store up all this extra youth in a metalmind, then be constantly tapping it to counteract the soul's attempt to restore you to how you should be.

Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing Connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult.

Though this is the point where I ping [Peter Ahlstrom] and get him to double-check all this. Once in a while, my fingers still type the wrong term in places. (See silvereye vs tineye.)

General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 20, 2015)

And you can break into Hemalurgic constructs with enough Connection. Handy in combat.

Spoiler

Dopetruffles

And finally, whether a duralumin compounder could break into a kandra?

Brandon Sanderson

Um... yes, possible, yeah.

WorldCon 76 (Aug. 18, 2018)

 

Because your whole spirit web is just a tangle of Connections and Investiture, you can change a lot if you know what you're doing. 

[Koloss17 She/They]

It seems I have a few dissenters! I think you folks make valid points, and it’ll definitely go into my considerations when I ranke em all.

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 13:

F-Cadmium

I mean, this is just poor man’s F-Gold. There are a few cases where this is better, but I’m most cases, it’s just worse gold. Also, storing is absolutely abysmal. Can you imagine having to hyperventilate constantly? 
 

Rating: 5/10. I’d be happy if I had it, but would rather have so many other things.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

It seems I have a few dissenters! I think you folks make valid points, and it’ll definitely go into my considerations when I ranke em all.

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 13:

F-Cadmium

I mean, this is just poor man’s F-Gold. There are a few cases where this is better, but I’m most cases, it’s just worse gold. Also, storing is absolutely abysmal. Can you imagine having to hyperventilate constantly? 
 

Rating: 5/10. I’d be happy if I had it, but would rather have so many other things.

There are some uses for this I'd personally bump this up to a 6 or 6.5. You can go under water without air-tanks, you can resist gas-attacks far better. You won't need to breathe while running long distances, which could help with sprinting for longer.

You could also Tap enough to 'Hyper-Oxygenate' your blood, which makes me think of Demon Slayer and it's Breathing Techniques but I digress, directly oxygenating your body at rate beyond what your lungs are normally capable of can help with performing long and strenuous activities.

It's also pretty easy to store since you breathe all the time, you'd just have to store less when you're actively doing something tiring and not store at a rate you can't handle, like one-third rather than one-half.

I do wonder what would happen if you tapped at a really high rate? Would you hurt yourself? Super-Oxygenate yourself?

Anyway I'm not saying F-Cadmium is better than most of the others, like Steel or Pewter, cause it's not. But if it's all you have then you can definetly make it work. Don't sleep on Cadmium mates, it's uncomfortable. 

[Njvodin]

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

It seems I have a few dissenters! I think you folks make valid points, and it’ll definitely go into my considerations when I ranke em all.

Daily Feruchemy Analysis Day 13:

F-Cadmium

I mean, this is just poor man’s F-Gold. There are a few cases where this is better, but I’m most cases, it’s just worse gold. Also, storing is absolutely abysmal. Can you imagine having to hyperventilate constantly? 
 

Rating: 5/10. I’d be happy if I had it, but would rather have so many other things.

HEY! Don't you dare say anything bad about Cadmium!!!!!! My cult (just me at this point) will track you down!! /s

 

Just for the record, when storing Cadmium, you'd undergo hypoxia, which is the lack of oxygen. You'd have to try and make yourself hyperventilate to not die, though.

 

Why would you say it's the poor man's gold? How can it be used to heal? Just trying to build knowledge for my cult 

(While typing the rest of this post out, I just realised that it could mean faster healing, so is that what you meant, from what I said at the end of my post?)

2 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

you can resist gas-attacks far better

This would only be good if you know you're being gassed. Once it's in your blood, you're probably already going to experience symptoms. With odourless and colourless gases, you probably won't be able to react in time

 

2 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I do wonder what would happen if you tapped at a really high rate?

Oxygen poisoning seems like a very real possibility when you tap at a high rate. Except, with most other feruchemical abilities, when you tap very fast, you don't seem to hurt yourself (i.e. Skimmers being able to support their own weight, Steelrunners not ripping themselves apart, Firesouls being able to handle their own heat). So, if you don't get owned by hyperoxia, your cells could function at a higher rate than before, leading to higher metabolism, faster heart rate, faster mental cognition, and just better strength all around (think of turbochargers and superchargers in car engines, more air means more combustion means more power).