alder24 Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, Letryx13 said: I meant I don't know how he'd manipulate Dalinar into killing the StormFather. He'd have to get Dalinar to choose to end being a Radiant, but even beyond not wanting to betray his oaths, Dalinar likely suspects that turning the StormFather into a dead eye would be disastrous for Roshar. I just can't see him doing it. It's not only Dalinar who can break the Oath, it's Stormfather as well. If keeping the bond would cause greater risk/damage to Roshar/Cosmere than breaking the bond and deadeying himself, then Stormfather will break it. I think the only way to do this is to somehow make Dalinar into Odium's servant, and except for winning the contest, I don't see how to do that. I still think that it's very possible that Taravangian sees turning Dalinar into Fused as more important than freeing himself from Honor's bounds, because if Dalinar remains bounded to Stormfather, he can order Dalinar to free him, thus Stormfather will be forced to break his bond, or just Stormfather serving Odium is far worse than deadeye Stormfather. This would mean that Taravangian has to manipulate Dalinar into choosing someone else as the champion (as Dalinar can't die because death breaks the bond) and then win the duel. So while the most satisfying outcome would be to break free of Honor's restrictions, the other less satisfying, but still positive outcome might be to gain a powerful tool, kill Stormfather, ruining Coalition and Roshar itself, gaining massive advantage in fighting, denying them access to Stormlight completely, and then watching as Fused and Regals are winning the war with Dalinar leading them. Both Rayse and Taravangian wanted to get involved into wider Cosmere theater, so even if he remains bound to Roshar, he can still send his agents, like Dalinar, to represent him among other worlds and Shards. He can make Dalinar into his Avatar while remaining on Roshar and mess up other places from inside out. RoW ch 114: Quote There was so much to do. He sorted through Odium’s previous plans and saw all their flaws. How had he let himself be maneuvered into this particular deal with Dalinar? How had he let himself rely so much upon a contest of champions? Didn’t he know? The way to win was to make sure that, no matter the outcome, you were satisfied. Odium should never have entered a deal he could not absolutely control. It can still be done, Taravangian realized, seeing the possibilities—so subtle—that his predecessor had missed. Yes … Dalinar has set himself up … to fail. I can beat him.
Frustration Posted October 7, 2023 Author Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, alder24 said: It's not only Dalinar who can break the Oath, it's Stormfather as well. If keeping the bond would cause greater risk/damage to Roshar/Cosmere than breaking the bond and deadeying himself, then Stormfather will break it. I think the only way to do this is to somehow make Dalinar into Odium's servant, and except for winning the contest, I don't see how to do that. I still think that it's very possible that Taravangian sees turning Dalinar into Fused as more important than freeing himself from Honor's bounds, because if Dalinar remains bounded to Stormfather, he can order Dalinar to free him, thus Stormfather will be forced to break his bond, or just Stormfather serving Odium is far worse than deadeye Stormfather. This would mean that Taravangian has to manipulate Dalinar into choosing someone else as the champion (as Dalinar can't die because death breaks the bond) and then win the duel. So while the most satisfying outcome would be to break free of Honor's restrictions, the other less satisfying, but still positive outcome might be to gain a powerful tool, kill Stormfather, ruining Coalition and Roshar itself, gaining massive advantage in fighting, denying them access to Stormlight completely, and then watching as Fused and Regals are winning the war with Dalinar leading them. Both Rayse and Taravangian wanted to get involved into wider Cosmere theater, so even if he remains bound to Roshar, he can still send his agents, like Dalinar, to represent him among other worlds and Shards. He can make Dalinar into his Avatar while remaining on Roshar and mess up other places from inside out. RoW ch 114: Spren can break the bond without any risk to themselves.
alder24 Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Frustration said: Spren can break the bond without any risk to themselves. Source? Breaking the bond should be the same no matter who does it. Edit: I've found a WoB. It is possible, but there are some limitations, if both sides are committed it's really dangerous for a spren to break the bond safely. I would not expect it to be easy, something that a spren can just do anytime they want. Spoiler Overlord Jebus Can a spren willingly break their bond anytime between the First and Fifth Oath, with their Radiant? Brandon Sanderson Yes, this is possible-- Overlord Jebus Essentially committing suicide isn't it though-- Brandon Sanderson I just ascribe to that question-- A spren could at any point break it. Can they break it safely? That's a different question. Overlord Jebus Can they break it safely? *laughs* Brandon Sanderson There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018) Edited October 7, 2023 by alder24
Letryx13 Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 7 hours ago, alder24 said: Edit: I've found a WoB. It is possible, but there are some limitations, if both sides are committed it's really dangerous for a spren to break the bond safely. I would not expect it to be easy, something that a spren can just do anytime they want. Reveal hidden contents Overlord Jebus Can a spren willingly break their bond anytime between the First and Fifth Oath, with their Radiant? Brandon Sanderson Yes, this is possible-- Overlord Jebus Essentially committing suicide isn't it though-- Brandon Sanderson I just ascribe to that question-- A spren could at any point break it. Can they break it safely? That's a different question. Overlord Jebus Can they break it safely? *laughs* Brandon Sanderson There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018) Hmmm, that does seem like a possibility. It was hinted at in Oathbringer from Notom to Kaladin about there being ways to break the bond before the 5th ideal. And it's subtle enough that it's something Taravangian might try. But even then, Dalinar hasn't really broken his word, at least, not in regard to the contest of champions. Dalinar could still choose someone else to be his champion. And he might not be Honor's representative any longer, but that only hurts Todium. It's only Honor, or someone representing him, that can free Odium. If Dalinar doesn't represent him any longer, then he shouldn't be able to free Odium.
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