Who spoke to Kaladin? *spoilers*

[Doxedon]

Who spoke to Kaladin while he was Stormsurfing (I'm sure there's a better term) in Chapter 46 'Child of Tanavast'?

[Munin]

I have a couple theories.

Could be Jezrien, as he's the Stormfather. But he left, so that's unlikely. Could be Talenel, as the last remaining Herald. But we don't know if he can send visions like that. Could be the Almighty, just like Dalinar's visions. Could be Odium (or Bavadin), just screwing around with Kaladin. Could be Hoid, but that's doubtful.

But overall, we really don't know.

[Chaos]

Numbering your possibilities, Munin:

1. Jezrien

2. Talanel

3. The Almighty

4. Odium

5. Bavadin

6. Hoid

In reverse:

I think definitely not Hoid. Whatever power he holds, it's not that powerful.

Hmmm, Bavadin? I think Bavadin is on a different Shardworld. He doesn't hold Odium, he's probably not the Almighty, and he's not female, so he can't be Cultivation. Unless, of course, Bavadin is the Almighty (hmm, there's a theory buried around in there), or Bavadin is suddenly a female name, which I doubt. So, except in those unlikely circumstances, Bavadin is somewhere else, and would have no desire to do this to Kaladin.

Odium. This message is much more like a warning about Odium, so that suggestion seems very strange.

The Almighty. Perhaps there is a similar journal thing for Kaladin (or at least this one vision) which Kaladin can see, as he apparently has Radiant powers. However, I have a problem with my own logic here, as I believe that the Almighty died before the Last Desolation, so he wouldn't have knowledge that the Oathpact was broken. How would he be able to make such a message, as Dalinar's visions are so fragmented? In a counterpoint to my own counterpoint: the Almighty seemed to know that the Knights Radiant needed to stand again, and put that in his journal to Dalinar...

Talanel doesn't have the same "dying" issue that the Almighty has, and would have a vested interest in letting someone know about Odium. This seems more likely.

Jezrien. I don't know, he seems kind of dead, unless he brokered some deal with Odium somewhere.

Phew.

So, short story: the Almighty or one of his agents, probably Talanel. It could be some other agent of the Almighty we haven't seen yet, however.

[rjl]

However, I have a problem with my own logic here, as I believe that the Almighty died before the Last Desolation, so he wouldn't have knowledge that the Oathpact was broken.

I think you're likely wrong here, as when the heralds quit in the prelude the radiants were still around, the message to Dalinor includes the falling of the radiants, hence I think that the almghty must have not died untill more recently, or he wouldn't ahve been able to give memories of the radiants falling.

[Munin]

Jezrien. I don't know, he seems kind of dead, unless he brokered some deal with Odium somewhere.

I don't think the other nine heralds are dead. They left, but there's no indication that they died permanently.

[Chaos]

However, I have a problem with my own logic here, as I believe that the Almighty died before the Last Desolation, so he wouldn't have knowledge that the Oathpact was broken.

I think you're likely wrong here, as when the heralds quit in the prelude the radiants were still around, the message to Dalinor includes the falling of the radiants, hence I think that the almghty must have not died untill more recently, or he wouldn't ahve been able to give memories of the radiants falling.

Good point. Hence my counterpoint to my own argument

[Doxedon]

I didn't pick up until recently (another post) that the Almighty and Stormfather are two separate beings. My gut reaction was that the Almighty was still alive, yet hidden away, which I further compounded with "Hoid's" letter as the possible addressee.

Would a Herald really be patrolling the storms? If he was so worried about Kaladin riding the storm, shouldn't he be worried that his presence would be noticed?

[Deano Stormblessed]

I don't think Jenzrien is dead. In fact I don't think that any of the heralds are dead. I don't have any evidence to support it, except my gut feeling.

I just think it would be cool if all the Heralds were still alive. Immortal, but can be killed. I really want another Kalak PoV chapter.

[Eerongal]

I don't think Jenzrien is dead. In fact I don't think that any of the heralds are dead. I don't have any evidence to support it, except my gut feeling.

I just think it would be cool if all the Heralds were still alive. Immortal, but can be killed. I really want another Kalak PoV chapter.

In the prelude, when they gave up the oathpact and all that, they mentioned one of them (talenel) all ready being dead and pretty strongly imply that he will remain dead after the oathpact is given up, so that's at least one we can relatively safely say is dead, though for good i suppose remains to be seen.

[mycoltbug]

I don't think Jenzrien is dead. In fact I don't think that any of the heralds are dead. I don't have any evidence to support it, except my gut feeling.

I just think it would be cool if all the Heralds were still alive. Immortal, but can be killed. I really want another Kalak PoV chapter.

In the prelude, when they gave up the oathpact and all that, they mentioned one of them (talenel) all ready being dead and pretty strongly imply that he will remain dead after the oathpact is given up, so that's at least one we can relatively safely say is dead, though for good i suppose remains to be seen.

But as we all know Dead isn't dead with Brandon....

[Deano Stormblessed]

I don't think Jenzrien is dead. In fact I don't think that any of the heralds are dead. I don't have any evidence to support it, except my gut feeling.

I just think it would be cool if all the Heralds were still alive. Immortal, but can be killed. I really want another Kalak PoV chapter.

In the prelude, when they gave up the oathpact and all that, they mentioned one of them (talenel) all ready being dead and pretty strongly imply that he will remain dead after the oathpact is given up, so that's at least one we can relatively safely say is dead, though for good i suppose remains to be seen.

In fact we know Taln is not dead as he makes an appearance in the epilogue and Brandon has hinted that he may possibly be a major PoV character in a later book.

[Eerongal]

I don't think Jenzrien is dead. In fact I don't think that any of the heralds are dead. I don't have any evidence to support it, except my gut feeling.

I just think it would be cool if all the Heralds were still alive. Immortal, but can be killed. I really want another Kalak PoV chapter.

In the prelude, when they gave up the oathpact and all that, they mentioned one of them (talenel) all ready being dead and pretty strongly imply that he will remain dead after the oathpact is given up, so that's at least one we can relatively safely say is dead, though for good i suppose remains to be seen.

In fact we know Taln is not dead as he makes an appearance in the epilogue and Brandon has hinted that he may possibly be a major PoV character in a later book.

err, Does it actually name him in the epilogue? If so, i must have missed it, i thought he was unnamed (its been a bit since i've finished, maybe i forgot, and hoid is spouting his name every other sentence )

[Deano Stormblessed]

I don't think Jenzrien is dead. In fact I don't think that any of the heralds are dead. I don't have any evidence to support it, except my gut feeling.

I just think it would be cool if all the Heralds were still alive. Immortal, but can be killed. I really want another Kalak PoV chapter.

In the prelude, when they gave up the oathpact and all that, they mentioned one of them (talenel) all ready being dead and pretty strongly imply that he will remain dead after the oathpact is given up, so that's at least one we can relatively safely say is dead, though for good i suppose remains to be seen.

In fact we know Taln is not dead as he makes an appearance in the epilogue and Brandon has hinted that he may possibly be a major PoV character in a later book.

err, Does it actually name him in the epilogue? If so, i must have missed it, i thought he was unnamed (its been a bit since i've finished, maybe i forgot, and hoid is spouting his name every other sentence )

He says:

I am Talenel'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of the Almighty. The Desolation has come. Oh, God...it has come. And I have failed.

I think it is pretty much implied that Taln and Talenel is the same person, both have similar names and both are heralds. The former is probably a nick-name, or maybe his original name, while the other one is the name given to him by the people and the Vorin church.

[Eerongal]

I don't think Jenzrien is dead. In fact I don't think that any of the heralds are dead. I don't have any evidence to support it, except my gut feeling.

I just think it would be cool if all the Heralds were still alive. Immortal, but can be killed. I really want another Kalak PoV chapter.

In the prelude, when they gave up the oathpact and all that, they mentioned one of them (talenel) all ready being dead and pretty strongly imply that he will remain dead after the oathpact is given up, so that's at least one we can relatively safely say is dead, though for good i suppose remains to be seen.

In fact we know Taln is not dead as he makes an appearance in the epilogue and Brandon has hinted that he may possibly be a major PoV character in a later book.

err, Does it actually name him in the epilogue? If so, i must have missed it, i thought he was unnamed (its been a bit since i've finished, maybe i forgot, and hoid is spouting his name every other sentence )

He says:

I am Talenel'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of the Almighty. The Desolation has come. Oh, God...it has come. And I have failed.

I think it is pretty much implied that Taln and Talenel is the same person, both have similar names and both are heralds. The former is probably a nick-name, or maybe his original name, while the other one is the name given to him by the people and the Vorin church.

i see. Ok so, perhaps all of the heralds are still around.

[Munin]

I think it is pretty much implied that Taln and Talenel is the same person, both have similar names and both are heralds. The former is probably a nick-name, or maybe his original name, while the other one is the name given to him by the people and the Vorin church.

It's stated outright in the prelude that they're the same person.

"Talenel," Kalak said. His was the only Blade unaccounted for.

"Yes. He died holding that passage by the northern waterway."

Kalak nodded. Taln had a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them.

[Earendil]

Talenel still being around, though, isn't proof that the others still are.  Remember, just by virtue of having died, Talenel didn't break the oathpact.  He's been living (dying? not sure how to put this) in a state of continual torture for the oathpact for the past 4,500 years, so it seems to me that the others could all be safely dead, and Taln would still be around.

[Dryone]

Numbering your possibilities, Munin:

1. Jezrien

2. Talanel

3. The Almighty

4. Odium

5. Bavadin

6. Hoid

I think it was neither of them, but Cultivation aka Nightwatcher.

a) The voice is all in caps, so it probably not human (ruling out 1, 2, 6).

Odium is unlikely since the voice warns about him

c) The Almighty is dead, and this doesn't sound like one of the recordings.

d) Bavadin - not much information on his one, but I guess he's not on Roshar

Pro Cultivation/Nightwatcher:

e) The voice appears at the west coast of Roshar. Old Magic is also sought in the west.

f) My theory is that the 3 shards on Roshar are Odium, Almighty and Cultivation. Odium causes wars, the Almighty is responsible for Stormlight (and probably the highstorms) and Cultivation makes the soil and strange plants in the west (and the Old Magic)

[Dryone]

Talenel still being around, though, isn't proof that the others still are.  Remember, just by virtue of having died, Talenel didn't break the oathpact.  He's been living (dying? not sure how to put this) in a state of continual torture for the oathpact for the past 4,500 years, so it seems to me that the others could all be safely dead, and Taln would still be around.

Talenel hasn't been around, he's just coming back Poor guy.

Someone said that Axis the collector might be one of the other nine. After all he has a quest that will take another few centuries...

Another candidate is the mistress. Both show a slightly mad behavior which could be caused by the torture or their guilt.

So my guess is some or all of the nine are still around.

[PeterAhlstrom]

Has anyone here read Aether of Night? There's a similarity. I may be seeing things though. I do not know the answer to this question.

[mycoltbug]

That's the next one to read once I finish Elantris.  I'll look for it.

[Elusive Fehler]

Oh...interesting Peter....Now I'm going to have to go re-read Aether....jeesh. 

General Question:  Should there be someplace on here for Unpublished Works?

[Erik Holmes]

When I read it I had the impression that it was a powerful Spren. Like the spirit of the Highstorms.

[Chaos]

Oh...interesting Peter....Now I'm going to have to go re-read Aether....jeesh. 

General Question:  Should there be someplace on here for Unpublished Works?

Possibly. I know the question has come up before. There are certain technical hurdles with SMF itself, for one thing, as well

So, if you don't mind, I'm going to hem and haw for a bit about it, and not give a clear answer or a timetable

[Andrew the Great]

I'd like to go back a ways  in the conversation and voice agreement that the other heralds are not, in fact, dead. I saw it mentioned somewhere that Brandon signed a book with "Where's Jezrien?" I doubt he'd ask that particular question if he were lying dead never to be seen again.

In fact, with Jezrien being the Stormfather, I still see him as the most likely candidate for who spoke to Kaladin, though it could certainly be others.

[Deano Stormblessed]

I reckon all the Heralds are still alive in some way. I have no evidence to back this up, but its my gut feeling.

Jezriem is the face Kaladin saw in the storm.

I think the other Heralds are spread out among the 10 kingdoms of Roshar, with Shalash possibly being in Alethkar, since the statute was the only one missing in the prologue.