Mid-Range Game 65: Set on Infiltration

[Araris Valerian he/him]

12 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

Mat and I figured out the real way the list works. Basically, the list has 2 alignments that can be listed. We called them red and green, since they obviously don't mean anything in terms of real alignment.

So, there are 2 ways to switch the list color: 

This makes me think that one of the elims also has this role. Otherwise the elims would have no control over Mat potentially flipping to their side. If there is an elim with this role, that in turn suggests that the elims would have opposed exeing any red names on the list, since that puts them further from flipping Mat.

Did your role indicate the existence of Mat as a neutral and what would cause him to flip sides? I guess if you didn't know then maybe the elims didn't either.

I don't think anyone @DeTess listed can be a rioter if rioting works like in standard Tyrian. That role cancels your own vote while moving another. We have a missing vote and an added vote, but the moved vote should have come from somewhere. Which means that if it works like Tyrian then TKN is the only possibility.

[Aeoryi she/her]

So now that we know that the list means nothing due to mat being NK'd, does anyone want to claim to know any knowledge about the list? 

Also, I doubt the elims have abilities linked to the list. It seems odd flavor-wise, and I can't really think of anything besides arson that could be related to the list.

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

This makes me think that one of the elims also has this role. Otherwise the elims would have no control over Mat potentially flipping to their side. If there is an elim with this role, that in turn suggests that the elims would have opposed exeing any red names on the list, since that puts them further from flipping Mat.

Did your role indicate the existence of Mat as a neutral and what would cause him to flip sides? I guess if you didn't know then maybe the elims didn't either.

I don't think anyone @DeTess listed can be a rioter if rioting works like in standard Tyrian. That role cancels your own vote while moving another. We have a missing vote and an added vote, but the moved vote should have come from somewhere. Which means that if it works like Tyrian then TKN is the only possibility.

Well, the thing that was for mat was that if I wasn't a thug, the list would've turned red easily (from 2nd train + mat turning people red). 

My role did not indicate mat was neutral (or that anyone else could change things on the list) he full claimed to me in a PM after role exchanging. He also received information on how the list works as I did not.

There are no elims with this ability (that we know or have proof of) yet. But I kinda forced mat to work with me when he and I role exchanged, since otherwise he'd have to kill me (or get someone to) since I could undo any action he did, and if I felt in danger, I could just tell everyone mat's role, alignment, and the fact he wanted to be Elim, and was working with elims, which would probably destroy both elims and mat.

C1: I targeted archer, mat targeted TKN (we forgot about the Araris vote tied TKN), Araris was second train.

C2: Mat targeted araris, I did not submit an action (since I was muted), 

[DeTess she/her]

9 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I don't think anyone @DeTess listed can be a rioter if rioting works like in standard Tyrian. That role cancels your own vote while moving another. We have a missing vote and an added vote, but the moved vote should have come from somewhere. Which means that if it works like Tyrian then TKN is the only possibility.

If it works like that then I'd agree, but then the only ones that could be the rioter are the ones that didn't vote. That would be:

• JNV, except they haven't been on the shard since the 17th, so can't have submitted the action.
• STINK, except we know they're a soother
• TKN, except we know they're a soother

so this means the role can't work that way, and there have been plenty of other variations on the rioter role (iirc, back when I started rioter roles just straight up moved votes without cancelling your own).

[Aeoryi she/her]

1 minute ago, DeTess said:

If it works like that then I'd agree, but then the only ones that could be the rioter are the ones that didn't vote. That would be:

• JNV, except they haven't been on the shard since the 17th, so can't have submitted the action.
• STINK, except we know they're a soother
• TKN, except we know they're a soother

so this means the role can't work that way, and there have been plenty of other variations on the rioter role (iirc, back when I started rioter roles just straight up moved votes without cancelling your own).

A rioter can move their own vote traditionally, right?

[Archer he/him]

10 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

. Which means that if it works like Tyrian then TKN is the only possibility.

Yup*. I'm just going to put TKN here and say he volunteered to me that Soother roles can both soothe OR riot in the usual ways. 

*Unless puppeting JNV is allowed 

Quote

This makes me think that one of the elims also has this role. Otherwise the elims would have no control over Mat potentially flipping to their side. If there is an elim with this role, that in turn suggests that the elims would have opposed exeing any red names on the list, since that puts them further from flipping Mat.

Did your role indicate the existence of Mat as a neutral and what would cause him to flip sides? I guess if you didn't know then maybe the elims didn't either.

I had a similar thought, but I think that's what the 2nd place turning red part is for. The villager cancels that effect out, then Mat can choose to go whichever way he likes. To get it green, he'd need to find the thug and coordinate with them. To get it red, he'd have to wait for some green bodies to die. It's about equal chances of either happening. 

[DeTess she/her]

1 minute ago, Aeoryi said:

A rioter can move their own vote traditionally, right?

If their vote doesn't get cancelled by their ability, they can, yes. it generally doesn't matter too much whose vote they move, as in practice they just take 1 from the total on one vote train and add it to another.

Edit also, I might be missing something (don't think I read that Tyrian game), but wasn't TKN already confirmed a soother? They used their action C1 and even if you can riot a vote into a no vote their vote didn't disappear.

[Archer he/him]

26 minutes ago, DeTess said:

If it works like that then I'd agree, but then the only ones that could be the rioter are the ones that didn't vote. That would be:

• JNV, except they haven't been on the shard since the 17th, so can't have submitted the action.
• STINK, except we know they're a soother
• TKN, except we know they're a soother

so this means the role can't work that way, and there have been plenty of other variations on the rioter role (iirc, back when I started rioter roles just straight up moved votes without cancelling your own).

My understanding (from what TKN told me, feel free to correct it), is that "Soothers" can either delete a vote OR move a vote while deleting their own vote. 

Safe to assume Stink didn't kill themselves with vote manipulation. 

So to account for no net loss of votes BUT vote movement occurring, I agree that someone who didn't vote had to have done it. 

TKN volunteered this info. He didn't vote, so idk why he'd vote manip. Pending proof it's possible, I'm leaning towards e!soother!JNV because of my positive gut read of TKN. With two suspects, we have time to exe both if one doesn't pan out. Unless there's three elims, but I doubt that. Mat was essentially the third elim. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

20 minutes ago, Archer said:

My understanding (from what TKN told me, feel free to correct it), is that "Soothers" can either delete a vote OR move a vote while deleting their own vote. 

Safe to assume Stink didn't kill themselves with vote manipulation. 

So to account for no net loss of votes BUT vote movement occurring, I agree that someone who didn't vote had to have done it. 

TKN volunteered this info. He didn't vote, so idk why he'd vote manip. Pending proof it's possible, I'm leaning towards e!soother!JNV because of my positive gut read of TKN. With two suspects, we have time to exe both if one doesn't pan out. Unless there's three elims, but I doubt that. Mat was essentially the third elim. 

7/11 is really low for village percentage. So I suspect 2 elims.

Unless stink did do it to save Araris? I don't think so, but otherwise it will probably be:

Ravenclawjedi42, Wizard, or JNV (who was very inactive)

These people are the three most likely suspects. 

 

[The Unknown Order he/him]

1 hour ago, DeTess said:

If it works like that then I'd agree, but then the only ones that could be the rioter are the ones that didn't vote. That would be:

• JNV, except they haven't been on the shard since the 17th, so can't have submitted the action.
• STINK, except we know they're a soother
• TKN, except we know they're a soother

so this means the role can't work that way, and there have been plenty of other variations on the rioter role (iirc, back when I started rioter roles just straight up moved votes without cancelling your own).

Yeah, I'll confirm what Archer is saying.

I have the standard Soother ability of simply subtracting a vote (should note that this effects train not individual), or I can choose to move a vote, but this will cause my vote to be removed.

Edit!: wait no, I'm dumb! Apparently I was misreading my PM. I checked again, and I can subtract a vote like I thought, but my other ability is to add a vote, in which casemy vote is removed. So for the confusion. @Archerso you don't miss this. I'm pretty sure this reveals the mystery Soother here.

Edited September 27, 2023 by The Known Novel

[Archer he/him]

9 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

Yeah, I'll confirm what Archer is saying.

I have the standard Soother ability of simply subtracting a vote (should note that this effects train not individual), or I can choose to move a vote, but this will cause my vote to be removed.

Edit!: wait no, I'm dumb! Apparently I was misreading my PM. I checked again, and I can subtract a vote like I thought, but my other ability is to add a vote, in which casemy vote is removed. So for the confusion. @Archerso you don't miss this. I'm pretty sure this reveals the mystery Soother here.

That's a convenient backtrack. 

I guess you're implicating Wiz then? I don't see Aeoryi (elaborate thug claim) or DeTess (NKed) having done it. Leaving Wiz and I as suspects in that scenario. 

I wouldn't mind a Wiz exe over an Araris one tbh. E!Wiz could just be causing chaos. And if it's v!Wiz who flips, TKN is an obvious followup target. 

I'm playing this game on vibes, and the vibes of E!Araris and e!wiz being the team seem right. 

Araris Wiz

[Aeoryi she/her]

20 minutes ago, Archer said:

That's a convenient backtrack. 

I guess you're implicating Wiz then? I don't see Aeoryi (elaborate thug claim) or DeTess (NKed) having done it. Leaving Wiz and I as suspects in that scenario. 

I wouldn't mind a Wiz exe over an Araris one tbh. E!Wiz could just be causing chaos. And if it's v!Wiz who flips, TKN is an obvious followup target. 

I'm playing this game on vibes, and the vibes of E!Araris and e!wiz being the team seem right. 

Araris Wiz

I literally could not submit an action within 23hrs of the cycle, since I got muted (meaning I couldn't post any content INCLUDING PMs) so I couldn't submit an action. It was also too early to really submit an educated action.

Unless a soother and a rioter both targeted the same person (traditionally causing the target to retain their vote, and the rioter to lose theirs with no effect I believe)?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

My gut is on TKN being elim. Wiz seems to be playing too haphazardly to be evil, especially since there are likely only 2 elims, so they would want to lie low.

[Archer he/him]

On 26/09/2023 at 5:36 PM, Araris Valerian said:

Well, catching up hasn’t really happened, so I’m leading with my gut. Wizard responded to me, though he hasn’t really contributed much. I’d be willing to return to a vote on him. 

This turned to this

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

 Wiz seems to be playing too haphazardly to be evil, especially since there are likely only 2 elims, so they would want to lie low.

despite the only new information from Wiz being them asking why there's a missing vote today. 

I'd characterize their play as more hit and run voting with zero game solving going on. It reads as unsublte elim play to me. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

Araris Valerian, Why did you live? Who saved you?

[Ravenclawjedi42]

Araris (sorry), your claim on it being TKN seems a little weak and I can’t think of anyone better to vote.

[Archer he/him]

3 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Araris Valerian, Why did you live? Who saved you?

XD. 

Spoiler

 

 

1 minute ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

Araris (sorry), your claim on it being TKN seems a little weak and I can’t think of anyone better to vote.

I do believe that both Araris and Wiz are good targets for the exe, but there's two advantages to killing Wiz:

-guarantees* we'll still have PMs next cycle

-kills a vote manipulator 

I'll ultimately vote with the majority, but I do think we should think about consolidating the vote to avoid vote manipulation subverting our will. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

XD. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I do believe that both Araris and Wiz are good targets for the exe, but there's two advantages to killing Wiz:

-guarantees* we'll still have PMs next cycle

-kills a vote manipulator 

I'll ultimately vote with the majority, but I do think we should think about consolidating the vote to avoid vote manipulation subverting our will. 

I just put a vote on him to add weight to my question. Without a vote attached, there isn't urgency. 

Araris Valerian

The wandering wizard

 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

11 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Araris Valerian, Why did you live? Who saved you?

Presumably I'm alive because someone wanted us to waste the exe talking about me again this cycle. And my money is on TKN as being responsible, which is why I'm voting for him.

[Ravenclawjedi42]

4 minutes ago, Archer said:

XD. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I do believe that both Araris and Wiz are good targets for the exe, but there's two advantages to killing Wiz:

-guarantees* we'll still have PMs next cycle

-kills a vote manipulator 

I'll ultimately vote with the majority, but I do think we should think about consolidating the vote to avoid vote manipulation subverting our will. 

All of that is valid, I guess. I do think Araris is more likely, but I didn’t love his defense of The Wandering Wizard, which suggests that they’re working together. While I understand him voting for TKN, he just doesn’t seem as likely to me, which definitely implicates Araris.

[Aeoryi she/her]

4 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Presumably I'm alive because someone wanted us to waste the exe talking about me again this cycle. And my money is on TKN as being responsible, which is why I'm voting for him.

We should probably have a secondary vote exe target, with all the vote manip around.

2 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

All of that is valid, I guess. I do think Araris is more likely, but I didn’t love his defense of The Wandering Wizard, which suggests that they’re working together. While I understand him voting for TKN, he just doesn’t seem as likely to me, which definitely implicates Araris.

TKN isn't that suspicious I hope. 

I'm almost certainly gonna be NK'd so...

[Araris Valerian he/him]

3 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

All of that is valid, I guess. I do think Araris is more likely

Why, exactly, are you suspicious of me?

[Aeoryi she/her]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

Why, exactly, are you suspicious of me?

Ravenclawjedi42 has been voting with majority and providing eh reasons all game. If they weren't a new player, I would've Exe'd them C2 or C1. But @Ravenclawjedi42 I want your reads list.

 

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

I'd characterize their play as more hit and run voting with zero game solving going on. It reads as unsublte elim play to me. 

Would E!me really do that though? Why do something unsubtle like that?

[Aeoryi she/her]

Just now, The Wandering Wizard said:

Would E!me really do that though? Why do something unsubtle like that?

IDK man you never replied to anything I ever asked, PMs or no, your last minute C1 vote was dodgy, etc

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

46 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

IDK man you never replied to anything I ever asked, PMs or no, your last minute C1 vote was dodgy, etc

That's all quite true