dyring Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 The book you're referring to is Liar of Partinel, I believe, and is not canon, as it has not yet been published. However, Word of Brandon states that Hoid was there at the shattering. Canonically, we actually can't be certain he wasn't born the moment of shattering, but it's highly likely he was there before. I know the book isnt, but I thought the parts that he posted(first chapter or the prologe) was. Supose I might have been wrong on that:). Now that I think about it, him posting it publicly smply meant it was allowed to be discussed here right, as opposed to the rest of the nonpublished works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jacob Santos Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I know the book isnt, but I thought the parts that he posted(first chapter or the prologe) was. Supose I might have been wrong on that:). Now that I think about it, him posting it publicly smply meant it was allowed to be discussed here right, as opposed to the rest of the nonpublished works? I think when people say it isn't canon, it means that it is still being edited. The first draft (?) chapter was different from the second draft (?) first chapter. I'm guessing that there are key points in each of the samples that are going to make it into the final edition, but... Brandon has been known to scrape works and rewrite them, usually to the better of the whole. See Warbreaker, Final Empire Prime, Mistborn Prime. Furthermore, there are elements of the first draft (?) that are similar to Jim Butcher's Codex Alera series. The creep (? not canon term, but I like to think zerg from Starcraft) in the first draft (?) and the decay in the second draft (?). I don't believe anyone important will dispute Brandon's claim to his creep idea. After all Starcraft has it, Codex Alera has it, the concept of claiming territory is old, humans build walls, etc. Also, it will be like what 10 years before he gets back to Lair? I think he has hit his stride with Stormlight, so I wouldn't count on Liar being the same. Either his creativity levels will decrease in the next decade or his works will be counted among the greats in another century. Also, given that time frame hints and other canon that comes out in the Stormlight Archive might require updating the Lair drafts regardless. Actually, I believe he put the chapters out there to say, "See, I wasn't always awesome." and also, "You have to work hard, terribly hard to succeed." Edited February 16, 2012 by Jacob Santos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhalagirl Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hoid as the holder of the original supershard would explain some of his actions. He does seem to be keeping tabs on the shardholders or there aftermaths. If there was actually a holder of the supershard, he would likely have the ability to master all of the magic systems, thus lending them unification. I haven't read all of LoP but what I have read makes me pretty certain that he wasn't the original holder of the supershard. He may have known the holder since he was present. Especially since what he's doing now is directly related to that event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Not quite counting LoP as canon until it is published. Brandon has shown a willingness to competely change things about his initial works. Hoid seems to be just a little too involved to have been nothing more than a bystander. We know that Brandon intended him to enter the Ruin's cavern before Vin. What he did that scared Vin away, I don't seem to remember ever being stated. Even the annotations are iffy about that. He was a major character in TWOK. He was the storyteller in Warbreaker that helped Siri put some things together in her head. He helped Sarene infiltrate Elantris. At the very least, he has some ability that allows him to constantly be in with the right people at exactly the right time. Nothing short of precognition or wierd time abilities could account for that. Sadly, we probably won't truly answer or questions about him for at least 15 to 20 years if even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Brandon has hinted that Hoid has some kind of precognitive ability, but we don't know any details about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 It seems to me that Odium is the only "evil" shard, everything else can be evil. None of the shards come across as completely good, though. Endowment is closest, but even that doesn't seem to fit the bill. So whatever Odium's opposite is (I don't think it's Honor), that's probably the pure good one. Odium sounds completely awful to me too. I don't know that we won't find some redeeming value, or at least necessity for Odium before we are done. Admittedly, the intent sounds generally horrible. Just as with Ruin, I can imagine Brandon having created a rationale for Odium. I believe that the two aspects of Odium that have been revealed are antipathy=hate and consumption. Could it be argued that degrees of attraction and antipathy are necessary for judgement and decision? Would then the essence of antipathy, Odium be a part of a healthy whole? Could consumption serve to release/relieve/recycle things? The following quote from the epigraph of chapter 67 hints to me of some utility to Odium: "Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-Gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!" If Dai-Gonarthis is voidish, as the oblivion Dai-Gonarthis brings seems welcome to the one being quoted, then it seems that at least some welcome a portion of what Odium brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 If Dai-Gonarthis is voidish, as the oblivion Dai-Gonarthis brings seems welcome to the one being quoted, then it seems that at least some welcome a portion of what Odium brings. Thi is a valid thought, however, if you were being tortured for a very, very long time, wouldn't you want your suffering to end in any way? So the person that said this might just want his suffering to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 And I came to the conclusion that it was a bad place. If you combine all the Shards we know of now, it isn't very nice. Dominion isn't a good thing, as it generally results in someone being oppressed. This sounds more like a misunderstanding of the term. I had the impression that Dominion was something that related to governance or rule. Granted there is a great deal of scope inside those parameters but it would certainly have been a powerful unifying force. Its probably why Odium put it on the list of shards to take out first. It would have been interesting to see what kind of world Aona and Skai would have made if Odium had not shown up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 And, because I have too, I need to point out that we even know that Skai's Shard isn't Dominion and we still use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Odium sounds completely awful to me too. I don't know that we won't find some redeeming value, or at least necessity for Odium before we are done. Admittedly, the intent sounds generally horrible. Just as with Ruin, I can imagine Brandon having created a rationale for Odium. I believe that the two aspects of Odium that have been revealed are antipathy=hate and consumption. Could it be argued that degrees of attraction and antipathy are necessary for judgement and decision? Would then the essence of antipathy, Odium be a part of a healthy whole? Could consumption serve to release/relieve/recycle things? The following quote from the epigraph of chapter 67 hints to me of some utility to Odium: '...The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!' If Dai-Gonarthis is voidish, as the oblivion Dai-Gonarthis brings seems welcome to the one being quoted, then it seems that at least some welcome a portion of what Odium brings. This. As we have seen in Mistborn series, it is entirely possible that Odium is just a balancing, necessary force. Just with Preservation, there must come Ruin, and as comes Ruin, there must be some Preservation. However, with Ati and Leras, there were no evil intents, just hunger to fulfill their Shard's purpose. Also, there was no interference or allying outside of the Shardworld. However, in this case, it seems that Dominion has interfered, and so Honor was crushed and killed. Odium is now given free reign without either his 'make-shift' counterparts (as in, Honor and Cultivation combined in order to hold off Odium until the true counterpart has arrived, indicating that the day may be saved by this true counterpart) or his true counterpart, inferring that the only way he can be stopped is for the remnants of Honor (true counterpart) to join with Cultivation in order to represent a force strong enough (combined) to counter Odium and achieve another balance. I have the feeling this will happen with every Shard pair, until only Harmonies remain. Then Adonalsium can be reformed . I then believe Hoid's job is to ensure this takes place with as little damage to existing projects (populations, Shardworlds) while 17th Shard believe it would be best to prevent the joining and claim the powers of the Harmonized Shards (who, as we see in Sazed, have particularly more influence [as in can create, like Sazed can, instead of being blocked by your opposing shard, as Ati and Leras found]) for themselves to harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 And, because I have too, I need to point out that we even know that Skai's Shard isn't Dominion and we still use it. Its not? I don't keep a super close eye on the forums but it still states that Skai's Shard is Dominion on the wiki. Including the link to the forum post saying Mr. Sanderson confirmed it. (With accompanying picture of his written statement.) Has this changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 No I believe it hasn't. Last I heard we were still operating under the assumption that Dominion's Shardholder was in existence in the same Solar System as the world of Roshar... I believe it is called Silence Divide, although I am not familiar with it. It was to my knowledge that Aona and Skai were both Shattered by Odium, and also under the assumption that Dominion, as Odium's clear ally, would not then be Shattered by him. Which leads me to believe Skai and Dominion are indeed separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't know the exact quote, but some asked Brandon Sanderson if Skai's Shard was dominion or some other word that's meaning is close to Dominion, and Brandon Sanderson said no. I'm sure that one of the administrators will come and either prove me right or disprove me soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 No I believe it hasn't. Last I heard we were still operating under the assumption that Dominion's Shardholder was in existence in the same Solar System as the world of Roshar... I believe it is called Silence Divide, although I am not familiar with it. It was to my knowledge that Aona and Skai were both Shattered by Odium, and also under the assumption that Dominion, as Odium's clear ally, would not then be Shattered by him. Which leads me to believe Skai and Dominion are indeed separate. Skai's shard is definitely Dominion. Check out this link. Aona and Skai are on Sel, we know that Aona's Shard is something close to Devotion. Thus Skai's Shard must be this second one Brandon Brandon refers too. Silence Divine is in the Roshar system. There has been speculation that Bavidin, Cultivation, or the potential third Roshar Shard is there. (It depends if Odium has actually arrived on Roshar). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Sorry, I was remembering the Q&A and someone asked, Is Skai's Shard Devotion and I remembered it as Dominion. *facepalm* Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ahh sorry for my mis-quote. I was indeed remembering the entire Bavidin/Odium's Ally scenario but forgot that Bavidin wasn't proven to be Dominion. I've been away for a while, so I never heard of the confirmation of Skai-Dominion. I was just remembering speculation as to what Bavidin might be, and Dominion was the favorite back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 What Windrunner said is right. Dominion is Skai, who was shattered on Sel (Elantris-world) along with Aona's Shard. Aona and Skai are both dead as of the Way of Kings. But Tulir is almost right. The one that we aren't entirely certain on is Devotion. We know that it's really really close (and that it may actually be it), but Brandon said that he would have to double check, and hasn't gotten back to us yet. Though if anyone has a recording or something from a Q&A that I missed, or another record, I would be thrilled to have it for certain. EDIT- This is the one we have right now: Book Report JOSH Josh: Is Aona's Shard name Devotion? BRANDON SANDERSON RAFO, but that's more of a "Email that question to me" because I would have to look at my computer to see which term I settled on, but you're basically there. MI'CHELLE We've got the right idea. BRANDON SANDERSON I think it actually may be Devotion. So I'll have to look. It may be a synonym. And yep, Bavadin is the one for Silence Divine, and he's on the planet next to Roshar. EDIT EDIT- Never mind! Devotion is indeed the name for Aona! With twitter proof from Peter! Twitter Zas678- Hey Peter, could you tell us what Aona's Shard was? Brandon said that he'd look it up and get back to us, but... http://t.co/htauD6uJ (The link to above) PeterAhlstrom- I thought that was answered already. But anyways, the answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtafARian Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 And yep, Bavadin is the one for Silence Divine, and he's on the planet next to Roshar. Zas, are you sure about this part? I can't find the quote, but I'm almost POSITIVE that Brandon said not too long ago (like at least since Way of Kings came out) that Taldain, the setting of WHITE SAND was Bavadin's world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 You are correct, I almost forgot about this one. MindCanaries: Will we see any Shardholders beyond the three already at work? Specifically, will we see Bavadin?Brandon: You will see other Shards. Bavadin is on the planet Taldain, where White Sand takes place. This wasn't in the database, I found it on the old Brandonothology. However when I searched Bavadin on the database, it said 2 results found but only displayed 1. It might have been a glitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Doh! Two mistakes in one! Let me add that quote/interview to the database. I've noticed the 2-1 display glitch as well. It occurs a lot, especially on the tags. Hmmm. It seems like that quote is already in the database. It isn't tagged (though it should be), but I did find it when I searched for it. Here it is: Reddit AMA Did you search for it? Or did you just click on the tag for Bavadin? And yeah, I get White Sand and Silence Divine mixed up a lot. Though I shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Yeah, I just clicked on the tag for Bavadin, that was probably the problem. Just out of curiosity, do you know why the 2 results glitch shows up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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