Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted August 9, 2023 Posted August 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: It could be played off as not applying during the Reod and then the characters being too distracted to notice in the events afterwards. @Frustration Also that could also be true, there was a different thread discussing whether Elantrians would have Heightenings and that scene was brought up, but we didn't consider (to my knowledge) that Riino could have had Breaths.
alder24 Posted August 9, 2023 Posted August 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Frustration said: I do not recall that. But even if they did you can tell if someone has been doing firemoss or not by looking in the CR. OB ch 47: Quote “We must search Shadesmar,” Ivory said. “In this world, men can hide easily—but their souls shine out to us on the other side.”
Frustration Posted August 9, 2023 Author Posted August 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, alder24 said: OB ch 47: That doesn't say that you could locate the Heralds in particular, only that souls are easy too see and can't be hid. 21 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: @Frustration Also that could also be true, there was a different thread discussing whether Elantrians would have Heightenings and that scene was brought up, but we didn't consider (to my knowledge) that Riino could have had Breaths. I saw that, and as I said the change would have been instant, and as someone who has had their vision suddenly shift(everything turned yellower, don't ask me why, I don't know) it is very noticable.
alder24 Posted August 9, 2023 Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Frustration said: That doesn't say that you could locate the Heralds in particular, only that souls are easy too see and can't be hid. It was about Heralds: Quote Jasnah trembled as she read the madman’s words. She turned over the sheet, and found the next one covered in similar ideas, repeated over and over. This couldn’t be a coincidence, and the words were too specific. The abandoned Herald had come to Kholinar—and had been dismissed as a madman. [...] “This speaker, Jasnah,” Ivory said, tapping the sheet she’d just read. Ivory had a clipped, no-nonsense voice. “This one who said these words. This person is a Herald. Our suspicions are true. The Heralds are, and the fallen one still is.” “We need to find him,” Jasnah said. “We must search Shadesmar,” Ivory said. “In this world, men can hide easily—but their souls shine out to us on the other side.” In this context "their souls" are Heralds' souls. Edited August 9, 2023 by alder24
Frustration Posted August 9, 2023 Author Posted August 9, 2023 29 minutes ago, alder24 said: It was about Heralds: In this context "their souls" are Heralds' souls. No in this context their souls are are the souls of men. Ivory specifically said: In this world men hide easily. Now Heralds souls would still shine, but this does not prove that their souls are the brightest.
JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted August 10, 2023 Posted August 10, 2023 22 hours ago, alder24 said: I think Brandon is talking to investiture of Adonalsium who created Roshar. Some Shards would be more or less invested, depending on what aspects of himself Adonalsium favored when creating Roshar (Cultivation was one of those). All 16 Shards are represented, but their mixture and proportions define the "natural investiture of Roshar" - that's my interpretation. I guess I had never considered that Adonalsium's investiture still existed whole, anywhere. In my head, I just automatically assumed the shattering shattered investiture everywhere in the Cosmere..but there is actually no reason for why an invested object (no matter how large like a planet) would have to change. It's just an assumption I didn't consciously On 8/9/2023 at 6:16 AM, alder24 said: I would say that rather than forming a bond with spirits, she attracts them by stacking stones, which anchors them to PR and this makes them grateful enough so they are willing to manifest in PR by Yumi's request. But to manifest they need investiture, and this drains Yumi. Whether Yumi as Yuki-Hijo is always bonded with every spirit or she is just invested with Virtuosity's investiture to the point where she can interact with them is another question. Yuki-Hijo for me seems more similar to Horneater's Sighted or Singers than Radiants. So...how did Yumi become so much more invested over the centuries? There is a net gain of investiture somewhere, and I don't know where that's coming from, since she is giving and not taking, as you pointed out? 19 hours ago, Frustration said: 1. Riini could have breath, he even asks Kaladin what heightening he is. This is true, but with Cosmere aware people (more and more) using the same terms for similar effects of investiture..this point could actually prove the opposite of what you're saying. And, we won't really know which way it means, until Brandon canonizes it.
alder24 Posted August 10, 2023 Posted August 10, 2023 Just now, JohnnyKaizen said: I guess I had never considered that Adonalsium's investiture still existed whole, anywhere. In my head, I just automatically assumed the shattering shattered investiture everywhere in the Cosmere..but there is actually no reason for why an invested object (no matter how large like a planet) would have to change. It's just an assumption I didn't consciously It is shattered, there is no Adonalsium investiture, but all 16 Shards hold investiture, that used to be of Adonalsium, all across Cosmere. Every Shard is invested slightly on Roshar and that's what I was talking about. 2 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said: So...how did Yumi become so much more invested over the centuries? There is a net gain of investiture somewhere, and I don't know where that's coming from, since she is giving and not taking, as you pointed out? No idea, she regenerates it over time. I wouldn't be surprised if this came from the UTol planet, as it's visible through the Shroud which for me screams "investiture". It could invest her more and more over time. Or maybe she was consuming the Shroud over time. No idea really.
Frustration Posted August 10, 2023 Author Posted August 10, 2023 1 minute ago, alder24 said: Or maybe she was consuming the Shroud over time. Considering it was made of souls that's a rather... Morbid image.
JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted August 10, 2023 Posted August 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Frustration said: Considering it was made of souls that's a rather... Morbid image. I mean, nature consumes and repurposes all the time, so I don't find it to be particularly morbid. Assuming everyone who died got to go to the Beyond and wasn't doomed to oblivion because Yumi ate them..if that's the case then yeeeesh.
Frustration Posted August 28, 2023 Author Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/9/2023 at 1:52 PM, alder24 said: It was about Heralds: In this context "their souls" are Heralds' souls. Shallan was in Shadesmar in Kholinar, while Jezrien was on the PR side. If Heralds souls glowed so brightly his would have been seen.
alder24 Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Frustration said: Shallan was in Shadesmar in Kholinar, while Jezrien was on the PR side. If Heralds souls glowed so brightly his would have been seen. Maybe if they weren't so distracted by wanting to get the hell out of there as fast as possible to avoid Unmade below the Oathgate, walking on the bottom of the sea of bead, they might have taken the tour through Kholinar's Shadesmar, amongst hundreds of thousands other souls and hundreds of Fused, they might have spotted a needle in the haystack, named Jezrien.
Frustration Posted August 28, 2023 Author Posted August 28, 2023 34 minutes ago, alder24 said: Maybe if they weren't so distracted by wanting to get the hell out of there as fast as possible to avoid Unmade below the Oathgate, walking on the bottom of the sea of bead, they might have taken the tour through Kholinar's Shadesmar, amongst hundreds of thousands other souls and hundreds of Fused, they might have spotted a needle in the haystack, named Jezrien. They didn't walk on the bottom, they used beads to form platforms to walk on, and it took them hours. And despite the fact that we got a lot of detail about the spren and the souls in the area, not once was any particular soul singled out. Therefore Heralds souls cannot be unmistakably brighter than others.
alder24 Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 Just now, Frustration said: They didn't walk on the bottom, they used beads to form platforms to walk on, and it took them hours. Ok, true, my mistake, but they still were focused on getting out of Kholinar, not on looking out for Herald's soul. 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: And despite the fact that we got a lot of detail about the spren and the souls in the area, not once was any particular soul singled out. Because one brighter soul among hundreds of thousands would definitely be noticeable. Right? 4 minutes ago, Frustration said: Therefore Heralds souls cannot be unmistakably brighter than others. I didn't suggest that it would glow like a lighthouse, only that it would be recognizable brighter than normal souls. They mostly had no idea what those lights meant, and had no idea that there was a Herald in Kholinar.
Frustration Posted August 28, 2023 Author Posted August 28, 2023 50 minutes ago, alder24 said: Because one brighter soul among hundreds of thousands would definitely be noticeable. Right? I didn't suggest that it would glow like a lighthouse, only that it would be recognizable brighter than normal souls. They mostly had no idea what those lights meant, and had no idea that there was a Herald in Kholinar. Your evidence for Heralds being more invested than Radiants was that their souls glowed more brightly. If you have to look closely to determine a difference between Heralds and Humans how can you say that Heralds are more invested than Radiants?
alder24 Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, Frustration said: Your evidence for Heralds being more invested than Radiants was that their souls glowed more brightly. If you have to look closely to determine a difference between Heralds and Humans how can you say that Heralds are more invested than Radiants? I didn't say you need to look closely - their souls are brighter than human souls brighter than Radiant souls, but in the sea of tens of thousands of souls, you won't see them. They aren't a lighthouse blinding you with light. So yes, both statements can be true at the same time. Compare those 3 souls alone and you will see the difference.
Frustration Posted August 28, 2023 Author Posted August 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, alder24 said: I didn't say you need to look closely - their souls are brighter than human souls brighter than Radiant souls, but in the sea of tens of thousands of souls, you won't see them. They aren't a lighthouse blinding you with light. So yes, both statements can be true at the same time. Compare those 3 souls alone and you will see the difference. Alright, do you have any proof for that?
alder24 Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: Alright, do you have any proof for that? Except for Jasnah's words, that's mostly speculation based on that. And I've found this WoB: Spoiler Ramba Ral How would a person with a Cognitive Shadow, like Szeth or the Heralds, look to someone in the Cognitive Realm? Would they appear to be just another soul? Or different? Brandon Sanderson So the question is, are there differences about a Cognitive Shadow in the Cognitive Realm. The answer is yes, but the way they became a Cognitive Shadow is going to influence how they look. And there are other little things playing into that. You could generally tell this if you knew what you were looking for. So the answer to that is a yes, but a qualified yes. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) That's what I was saying. Heralds' souls are recognisable.
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