Discussing the Scar

[Firesong she/her]

I want to discuss with people what exactly the Scar must be, as it is pretty important due to the colour, how it is mentioned in basically every series, and that Brandon RAFOs everything about it. But one WoB did say that the colour is indeed significant. 

We know that it is crimson in colour. Crimson is often associated with corruption. 

We know that it can vary between seasons on Roshar to a noticeable extent, where it can reach high into the sky. This is observable in various constellations irl, like with the Big Dipper. Which appears rather high in the sky in Spring. 

Notably, they tend to compare it to wounds or damage, The Scar and the Red Rip. Both seem to imply something was going on over there. 

The constellation is called The Dragon, and the star map has all the constellations have some deeper meaning. 

I just, can't make out much of what it way be. As it doesn't exactly make much sense to be corrupted Investiture, given they seem to be pretty normal Stars, not Investiture. My idea, maybe Yolen is in the constellation, and the Shattering of Adonalsium caused some sort of twisting to the world around it. This would also explain the constellation also being called the Dragon, with dragons coming from Yolen, as if you look at the other constellations, they are all based around something to do with a primary planet in the system. Perhaps basically everyone associated it with hurt and wounds due to the Shattering. 

The Mourner for Threnody, a breathing woman for Nalthis, a lamp letting out a (Dor) flame for Sel, a fisherman for Drominand, etc. So, I doubt that the Dragon would suddenly lack any meaning. 

Quote

Questioner

Did the Red Scar, or Red Rip, whatever you want to call it, look the same pre-Shattering as it does now?

Brandon Sanderson

Taln's Scar, or the Red Rip, it's on the map inside [Arcanum Unbounded] did it look the same... before and after the Shattering of Adonalsium? RAFO.

Brandon has also avoided saying if it is related in any way to the Shattering or anything after the Shattering. 

So, final answer, in my eyes, it is a result of The Shattering. What do yous think?

[Quantus he/him]

• Mundane possibility: Its a Nebula, and a cool astronomic detail but not necessarily something Magic or Investiture related. 

 

• Shardic Possibility: Shards have Shattered other Shards. They first attacked Ambition and tore chunks of her Power off int he spaces between planet, and ultimately Shattered Ambition.  Next they went to Sel, and this time they decided it was safer to spend effort to shove as much of the Shard's power as they could into the Cognitive Realm, hoping it would prevent the Power from waking up on it's own (which makes me curious about Ambition's Torn chunks) and created the Dor. I think the Scar could be either leftover from Ambition's fall which left Realmic wounds, or it could be a 3rd attempt where they shoved the Investiture into the Physical Realm instead of the Cognitive.  

 

• Other:  It's a Crimson Aether living in an Ice Nebula.  

[Firesong she/her]

7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

• Mundane possibility: Its a Nebula, and a cool astronomic detail but not necessarily something Magic or Investiture related. 

 

• Shardic Possibility: Shards have Shattered other Shards. They first attacked Ambition and tore chunks of her Power off int he spaces between planet, and ultimately Shattered Ambition.  Next they went to Sel, and this time they decided it was safer to spend effort to shove as much of the Shard's power as they could into the Cognitive Realm, hoping it would prevent the Power from waking up on it's own (which makes me curious about Ambition's Torn chunks) and created the Dor. I think the Scar could be either leftover from Ambition's fall which left Realmic wounds, or it could be a 3rd attempt where they shoved the Investiture into the Physical Realm instead of the Cognitive.  

 

• Other:  It's a Crimson Aether living in an Ice Nebula.  

I wouldn't think it was Aethers, he seemed to not be fully planning to work Aethers in until quite a bit after he added in the idea of the Scar in 2010. So I don't think those are connected. 

Could be about Ambition, that is possible. 

[Quantus he/him]

3 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I wouldn't think it was Aethers, he seemed to not be fully planning to work Aethers in until quite a bit after he added in the idea of the Scar in 2010. So I don't think those are connected. 

Could be about Ambition, that is possible. 

Maybe, though Aethers as a concept is something that predates the Cosmere and is something he's been trying to find ways to work in all along, and I think he's always talked about them as canon even if the Aethers of Night story isnt (much like the Sho Dal).  So it wouldn't surprise me if he seeded a few potential hooks in the setting that could work for Aethers, but could also easily be repurposed for other Shards as they develop.  

[Firesong she/her]

2 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Maybe, though Aethers as a concept is something that predates the Cosmere and is something he's been trying to find ways to work in all along, and I think he's always talked about them as canon even if the Aethers of Night story isnt (much like the Sho Dal).  So it wouldn't surprise me if he seeded a few potential hooks in the setting that could work for Aethers, but could also easily be repurposed for other Shards as they develop.  

True, true. But I don't see how Aethers would make it take on a red glow like that. Then again, we haven't really seen any Aethers, just their spores and buds. So we don't really know what to expect for the cores. 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

7 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I want to discuss with people what exactly the Scar must be, as it is pretty important due to the colour, how it is mentioned in basically every series, and that Brandon RAFOs everything about it. But one WoB did say that the colour is indeed significant. 

We know that it is crimson in colour. Crimson is often associated with corruption. 

We know that it can vary between seasons on Roshar to a noticeable extent, where it can reach high into the sky. This is observable in various constellations irl, like with the Big Dipper. Which appears rather high in the sky in Spring. 

Notably, they tend to compare it to wounds or damage, The Scar and the Red Rip. Both seem to imply something was going on over there. 

The constellation is called The Dragon, and the star map has all the constellations have some deeper meaning. 

I just, can't make out much of what it way be. As it doesn't exactly make much sense to be corrupted Investiture, given they seem to be pretty normal Stars, not Investiture. My idea, maybe Yolen is in the constellation, and the Shattering of Adonalsium caused some sort of twisting to the world around it. This would also explain the constellation also being called the Dragon, with dragons coming from Yolen, as if you look at the other constellations, they are all based around something to do with a primary planet in the system. Perhaps basically everyone associated it with hurt and wounds due to the Shattering. 

The Mourner for Threnody, a breathing woman for Nalthis, a lamp letting out a (Dor) flame for Sel, a fisherman for Drominand, etc. So, I doubt that the Dragon would suddenly lack any meaning. 

Brandon has also avoided saying if it is related in any way to the Shattering or anything after the Shattering. 

So, final answer, in my eyes, it is a result of The Shattering. What do yous think?

I agree. We know that Yolen has really weird astronomy, which could possibly have resulted from Adonalsium's Shattering. That, or the hypothetical Corruption, could be (in part) responsible for why Khriss can't locate it. I do find it interesting that Khriss can't find Yolen, yet Mraize has somehow acquired a branch from a Yolish tree.

[Quantus he/him]

3 minutes ago, Firesong said:

True, true. But I don't see how Aethers would make it take on a red glow like that. Then again, we haven't really seen any Aethers, just their spores and buds. So we don't really know what to expect for the cores. 

I was imagining a red fog Aether nebula type thing in Space/PR, but figured it was the glow of actual/normal stars that was seen as red on other worlds because it's getting filtered through the red cloud.  

[Firesong she/her]

Just now, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I agree. We know that Yolen has really weird astronomy, which could possibly have resulted from Adonalsium's Shattering. That, or the hypothetical Corruption, could be (in part) responsible for why Khriss can't locate it. I do find it interesting that Khriss can't find Yolen, yet Mraize has somehow acquired a branch from a Yolish tree.

I kind of theorized that the Yolish tree was brought off world and this is a descendent. Brandon did say that the Fain Ecosystem has expanded off Yolen. But then again, Hoid could somehow send messages to Frost, who is on Yolen iirc. 

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

I was imagining a red fog Aether nebula type thing in Space/PR, but figured it was the glow of actual/normal stars that was seen as red on other worlds because it's getting filtered through the red cloud.  

Ah, I see, makes sense. 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

10 hours ago, Firesong said:

I kind of theorized that the Yolish tree was brought off world and this is a descendent. Brandon did say that the Fain Ecosystem has expanded off Yolen. But then again, Hoid could somehow send messages to Frost, who is on Yolen iirc. 

WoB says it's from Yolen specifically.

[alder24]

I was thinking the Scar is just a region densely packed with red giant stars or red dwarf stars, a region with young stars that used to have lots of big stars from the main sequence that live very shortly and quickly go into a red giant phase. But there are no white stars on the chart in this region. And there are no red stars anywhere else except for Threnody. The Scar has some yellow and small stars, but the mouth of the dragon and its upper body part are made mainly out of big red stars, with the biggest of them being like a fire that was breathed out from his mouth. There has to be a significance to it. And because the only other red star outside of the Scar is the Threnody star, which we all know what happened there, I think it's fair to suggest Yolen is somewhere among those stars and the Shattering changed something about them.

If not Yolen, maybe it's the place where Ambition fled and was eventually Splintered, with all of her investiture spread out among multiple star systems by Odium, to prevent somebody from Ascending just like he did on Sel. This in my opinion makes more sense.

If that was just a dust, Isaak might know it and Brandon wouldn't be so cryptic about them:

Spoiler

TalenelFPV

I'm getting "Taln's scar" tattooed on my right shin to cover a scar. Any input on the size/shape of the galaxy? (more than just the star map in the front of arcanum)

Isaac Stewart

That's pretty cool! Well, Taln's scar is going to look different from different vantage points in the Cosmere. From the vantage point used on the Arcanum star map, it looks like a curved string of red stars. Elsewhere it's straighter. From some vantages, it will be horizontal, and others it will be vertical. There will be the sides of some planets that won't see it at all, kind of like how the North star isn't visible from the southern hemisphere of earth.

TalenelFPV

Are just the stars red? Is there cosmic space dust around them that's also red? Like a Nebula, but also red?

Isaac Stewart

I honestly don't know if the stars are red or if there is space dust around them making them appear to be red. This is a question better asked of Brandon. However, I don't think you can go wrong making the stars red themselves as they appear on the chart, especially since most of the Cosmere views them as red, too.

Isaac Stewart r/Stormlight_Archive AMA (Oct. 1, 2019)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

I have a question about art and stuff: for like, the star chart on Threnody. Like, the star is red. Is there a reason why it's also red in-- connected to The Scar?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, RAFO. Yeah, sorry.

Ad Astra 2017 (May 5, 2017)

And Isaac has pointed out that there is a significance in colors of stars:

Spoiler

Argent

Some stars are yellow, while others are red - is that significant?

Isaac Stewart

Yes. There are other colors in there too.

Footnote: This is from a private email exchange between Argent and Isaac Stewart.
Miscellaneous 2017 (June 1, 2017)

But Brandon suggested it's natural (which I find very unlikely)

Spoiler

Questioner

Are the reds [in the cosmere star chart] anything to do with the red stuff in Bands of Mourning, the one where he goes and talks to Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

It's more, if you look in the sky, in certain places, you will see red stars in the sky.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

And another WoB.

Spoiler

PallonianFire

What does the Red Rip look like in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

So this is a RAFO, in part because I haven't revealed if there are any planets out there.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

This makes sense if this region is composed of naturally occurring red giant stars - during their lifetime they would grow and swallow their closest planets, even our Sun will grow up to Earth's orbit.

But it makes sense if that was because of Ambition Splintering. What if Odium did something similar to Ambition as he did with Devotion and Dominion, but instead of pushing investiture into CR, he pushed it into PR? Because investiture is mass and energy, if he invested stars with Splintered Ambition's investiture, they would now be more massive, which means more gravity which would compress its core, which would heat up, and the heat would go back to outer layers of the star, expanding them into a red giant phase. At least that's what I think might happen:

Quote

A star maintains its stability through a fine balance between its own gravity, which holds it together, and the outwards pressure from ongoing thermonuclear fusion processes taking place at its core. Once a star’s core runs out of hydrogen, however, that state of equilibrium is lost and the core begins to collapse. As the core collapses, the shell of plasma surrounding the core becomes hot enough to begin fusing hydrogen itself. As fusion in this shell begins, the extra heat causes the outer layers of the star to expand dramatically, and the surface extends up to several hundred times beyond the former size of the star. The energy at the star’s surface becomes far more dissipated, causing the star's bloated surface to cool, turning from white or yellow to red. A red giant is formed.

 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

But Brandon suggested it's natural (which I find very unlikely)

  Hide contents

Questioner

Are the reds [in the cosmere star chart] anything to do with the red stuff in Bands of Mourning, the one where he goes and talks to Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

It's more, if you look in the sky, in certain places, you will see red stars in the sky.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

I don't think this is Brandon saying it is natural at all - it's just his "perfect evasion" turned to 11.

The questioner asks if the red appearance of the Scar is like the "red fog" Harmony shows to Wax. Well, the "Red Fog" is viewed from the Cognitive Realm with a connection to the Spiritual Realm. Whatever is making The Scar red is visible from the Physical realm.

So, his answer, "if you look in the sky you will see red stars" implies "it is as natural as Red Stars on real Earth" but really says "they aren't the same because the Scar is visible from the physical realm."

[Guest]

I wonder if the Scar is where Adonalsium was shattered and the red color is foreshadowing that the stars nearby were corrupted as a splash effect of the shattering or the weapon they used.