Awakening effects the whole right? Plus more ridiculous ideas.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

We have seen a couple of scenes where people awaken dolls and ropes or clothes.  

It appears that the visualization portion of Awakening is important in that regard as the magic seems to instinctively know what to awaken and how it should work based on it. 

Would that apply to all things you awaken?  

I was walking across a bridge yesterday and noticed the steel cables. After having this image of a Doc Ock in my mind or a guy in an iron spider type of suit I had been trying to think of ways to make the suit.  But then I saw these Cables. At just 1/4 inch they have a working load of 1100 lbs. At 3/8 inch they have a working load of more than 2400lbs. And they could coil up to be far less bulky than an inch thick rope you would need other wise.  

I furthered my thought process and remembered steel cables used on forged in fire... forge welding into knives and such. What if you took the steel cables and untwised them at the ends and forge welded them into stakes or small blades?  

Could this be awakened by someone with enough breaths?  You could twist it and pull off the human look because you are adding 4 extra limbs for yourself. It being metal and given the right command it could be a sentient being... though I don't think destroy would be a command you would want to use on it. But a belt or holter or something with aluminum for it to sheath and unsheath itself would be pretty nifty. 

Probably a wicked unsafe idea but it sounds like a fun one.  4 12 foot long flexible soulcutting limbs thinking and obeying your command that can coil up around your body while not using it.  

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

We have seen a couple of scenes where people awaken dolls and ropes or clothes.  

It appears that the visualization portion of Awakening is important in that regard as the magic seems to instinctively know what to awaken and how it should work based on it. 

Would that apply to all things you awaken?  

I was walking across a bridge yesterday and noticed the steel cables. After having this image of a Doc Ock in my mind or a guy in an iron spider type of suit I had been trying to think of ways to make the suit.  But then I saw these Cables. At just 1/4 inch they have a working load of 1100 lbs. At 3/8 inch they have a working load of more than 2400lbs. And they could coil up to be far less bulky than an inch thick rope you would need other wise.  

I furthered my thought process and remembered steel cables used on forged in fire... forge welding into knives and such. What if you took the steel cables and untwised them at the ends and forge welded them into stakes or small blades?  

Could this be awakened by someone with enough breaths?  You could twist it and pull off the human look because you are adding 4 extra limbs for yourself. It being metal and given the right command it could be a sentient being... though I don't think destroy would be a command you would want to use on it. But a belt or holter or something with aluminum for it to sheath and unsheath itself would be pretty nifty. 

Probably a wicked unsafe idea but it sounds like a fun one.  4 12 foot long flexible soulcutting limbs thinking and obeying your command that can coil up around your body while not using it.  

I think it can be done. Even without fearing of making sentient rope - Vasher awakened 1000 stone statues with lifeless bones in them with no sentience granted to a stone (Breaths from stone were recovered). 

I'm always imagining an Awakened rope, just a normal rope, that is later twisted around a barb wire or a chain and thrown together. It is like a bone to which muscles of rope attach. You can't cut a chain.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

58 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think it can be done. Even without fearing of making sentient rope - Vasher awakened 1000 stone statues with lifeless bones in them with no sentience granted to a stone (Breaths from stone were recovered). 

I'm always imagining an Awakened rope, just a normal rope, that is later twisted around a barb wire or a chain and thrown together. It is like a bone to which muscles of rope attach. You can't cut a chain.

This was along my thoughts as well. A similar option without requiring the 9th heightening would be to use thinner aluminum cables and wrap them around a rope that is awakened.  

I definately see awakening some really sweet stuff as possible in the future as metal cables are invented and more widely known. So long as the core of your arms is something that is able to be awakened I think you will have the ability to use long flexible appendages.  If coated in aluminum or awakened steel these could act as shard resistant.  

I asked about the chitin found in Roshar yesterday for this reason. I am sure that awakened arms could find those openings and having forged steel spikes on the tips of a rope would probably work as spears against them. (Vivennas cloak was able to see and recognize and react quickly enough to grab an arrow out of thin air). 

But I think awakened steel acting as a shardblade or shardspikes which would negate the resistance of the chitin would be brilliant. I envision a frayed rope or frayed cable coming out of the end as fingers... in the case of most steel cables it is a series of smaller cables wrapped around a slightly larger center coil. You could totally open those outer coils and forge in a blade there. An awakened blade with awakened pokey spikes as fingers surrounding it would allow your appendages the ability to puncture into any material and walk up it.  I totally envision this character using its cable arms to effortlessly grab on and climb up chasmfiend legs or thunderclast limbs.  Running up rock cliffs with it.  

But that leads to my ongoing theory... does the magical cutting power of shardblades come from the investiture?  Or does it come from the sentience?  I imagine if it is from the sentience this whole process would be quite risky. If you can do it without that sentience then that would be better.  I guess you could also just awaken the ropes and give sentience to a series of metal tips for the ropes. The ropes or cables could unsheath or set themselves into these awakened attachments and use them for the same purposes. A utility belt of awakened shardtools that your awakened, non sentient, arms could grab onto and use.  

[alder24]

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

This was along my thoughts as well. A similar option without requiring the 9th heightening would be to use thinner aluminum cables and wrap them around a rope that is awakened.  

I'm not so sure about aluminum. Aluminum has a field effect and it might disrupt any Awakened objects. I don't want it to act like that, because I have some cool ideas with Aluminum and Awakening but what can be done.

Spoiler

Questioner

Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor

Brandon Sanderson

No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts.

Questioner

So it disrupts like a field.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I asked about the chitin found in Roshar yesterday for this reason. I am sure that awakened arms could find those openings and having forged steel spikes on the tips of a rope would probably work as spears against them. (Vivennas cloak was able to see and recognize and react quickly enough to grab an arrow out of thin air). 

yup

8 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

But I think awakened steel acting as a shardblade or shardspikes which would negate the resistance of the chitin would be brilliant.

There is one, Vivenna's blade.

9 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I envision a frayed rope or frayed cable coming out of the end as fingers... in the case of most steel cables it is a series of smaller cables wrapped around a slightly larger center coil. You could totally open those outer coils and forge in a blade there. An awakened blade with awakened pokey spikes as fingers surrounding it would allow your appendages the ability to puncture into any material and walk up it.  I totally envision this character using its cable arms to effortlessly grab on and climb up chasmfiend legs or thunderclast limbs.  Running up rock cliffs with it.  

That sounds cool and possible.

9 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

But that leads to my ongoing theory... does the magical cutting power of shardblades come from the investiture?  Or does it come from the sentience?

I think it's sentience or some level of self-awareness. Even Honorblades which aren't sentient are self-aware and have their own identity

Spoiler

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

30 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I'm not so sure about aluminum. Aluminum has a field effect and it might disrupt any Awakened objects. I don't want it to act like that, because I have some cool ideas with Aluminum and Awakening but what can be done.

  Hide contents

Questioner

Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor

Brandon Sanderson

No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts.

Questioner

So it disrupts like a field.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

yup

There is one, Vivenna's blade.

That sounds cool and possible.

I think it's sentience or some level of self-awareness. Even Honorblades which aren't sentient are self-aware and have their own identity

  Hide contents

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

 

So simply being self aware is enough to cut.  I like that.  There are obviously commands out there that are less intense as destroy evil. I believe that vivennas blade must have been made with one of those less active and intense commands.  Maybe there is a command to really just link it to your will.  

I was also thinking about how big of a cable you need.  I know they have a ton of options...  I am sure there are connectors that can link much thicker cables together and not effect the strength of them... though if there is a hinge set up along a line of larger cables that can't coil as easily it makes me wonder if the hinge would work and add the support along its range of motion or not. A thicker cable could get you thousands and thousands of lbs of working load... and being cable I feel like it would offer enough structure as well as flexibility and spring to really work the best of both worlds.  I don't know how well a 3/8inch piece would work... it would be much more mobile and its strength is rated for upwards of 2400lbs working load but would it be able to function correctly?   

I imagine also some larger arms that are still flexible to a point but need hinges to fold up and lay across your back.  5/8 inch has a working load of over 6600 lbs.  1inch cable is a working load of 16,700 lbs. 

I'm no engineer nor am I someone who works with this stuff beyond backyard projects.  But I this is where I am seeing these figures. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-rope-strength-d_1518.html

I am sure there is a middle ground that offers a lot of flexibility.  

I envisioned one workup that involved crossing 2 thicker cables in a more elongated X (turning them into blades at the end)  and then place 4 smaller diameter cables in each of the angles of the X, braiding them around the thicker cable, and then fraying them out into fingers at the end that are long enough to double back around the blade to encircle and close around it when desired.  They would also be able to open to unsheath the blade while also being capable of creating a blunt more bludgeoning end to the arms.  The ends of these smaller diameter cables would probably be able to puncture things as well (they certainly have never had a hard time of stabbing me when I work with it in the yard).  

Awakening is so epic and I really think it has the most potential going further into the cosmere as tech advances.  Not to mention every generation that passes away in Nalthis could be adding their collective strength to the whole. A chosen patriarch or matriarch to give breaths to as the house awakener or whatever. A bit of wealth added in and you could have a lot more than just 1 or 2 people with the 9th heightening and above. 

Plus I totally see a world where Awakening tech and then giving it or selling it away to others fits into the whole endowment part of the world.  

[alder24]

Just now, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

So simply being self aware is enough to cut.  I like that.

Not really because Shardplate doesn't cut. Lesser spren don't do that. They should be self-aware.

2 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Plus I totally see a world where Awakening tech and then giving it or selling it away to others fits into the whole endowment part of the world.  

Have you read Tress?

[Aeoryi she/her]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Not really because Shardplate doesn't cut. Lesser spren don't do that. They should be self-aware.

Have you read Tress?

Could you awaken a fabrial? Or a metamind? Or are there limitations on that?

[alder24]

Just now, Aeoliae said:

Could you awaken a fabrial? Or a metamind? Or are there limitations on that?

Possible but hard, they are already considered as Awakened by the system - they are invested and investiture resists investiture. They are however less invested then Shardblades, therefore it's easier.

Spoiler

Questioner

Can a coppermind be Awakened?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible.

Questioner

With the memories already in it?

Brandon Sanderson

This is going to be harder because those memories are going to be keyed to someone else, who, by nature, would not be the individual that it was made into. You would have to key those memories to who the metalmind was becoming. There would be an extra step in there; It wouldn't just naturally be that way. We're talking wild, wild, these are possible, but far out, stuff. Possible, but there is an extra step in there.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

So is it possible to Awaken a Shardblade? That's the question-- that's my question for you.

Brandon Sanderson

Um... With the magic system of Awakening, you mean?

Questioner

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

So, all forms of Investiture strongly resist other forms of Investiture.

Questioner

Makes sense.

Brandon Sanderson

*brief interruption* Nightblood is essentially an Awakened... Trying to do that.

Questioner

'Cause he shows up in Words of Radiance, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So, it-- let's just say it'd be very, very hard. Because it's like saying, "Can-- I want to turn on a lightbulb that's been turned on." Yes, you can... maybe... I don't know what that even means. It's already Invested. It's already Awakened.

Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

 

[Aeoryi she/her]

Just now, alder24 said:

Possible but hard, they are already considered as Awakened by the system - they are invested and investiture resists investiture. They are however less invested then Shardblades, therefore it's easier.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Can a coppermind be Awakened?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible.

Questioner

With the memories already in it?

Brandon Sanderson

This is going to be harder because those memories are going to be keyed to someone else, who, by nature, would not be the individual that it was made into. You would have to key those memories to who the metalmind was becoming. There would be an extra step in there; It wouldn't just naturally be that way. We're talking wild, wild, these are possible, but far out, stuff. Possible, but there is an extra step in there.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

So is it possible to Awaken a Shardblade? That's the question-- that's my question for you.

Brandon Sanderson

Um... With the magic system of Awakening, you mean?

Questioner

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

So, all forms of Investiture strongly resist other forms of Investiture.

Questioner

Makes sense.

Brandon Sanderson

*brief interruption* Nightblood is essentially an Awakened... Trying to do that.

Questioner

'Cause he shows up in Words of Radiance, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So, it-- let's just say it'd be very, very hard. Because it's like saying, "Can-- I want to turn on a lightbulb that's been turned on." Yes, you can... maybe... I don't know what that even means. It's already Invested. It's already Awakened.

Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

 

Could you awaken a piece of metal AND then store something Inside? The metal wouldn't have investiture when it is awakened, and so could it be possible?

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Aeoliae said:

Could you awaken a piece of metal AND then store something Inside? The metal wouldn't have investiture when it is awakened, and so could it be possible?

Then your investiture will be resisted by Breaths in the metal, making it harder for you to store in it. Or it would act as a partially filled metalmind by another Feruchemist - less space for your attributes and you can feel those Breaths there inaccessible to you.

There aren't any WoBs on that but some regarding Awakening spikes or metalminds:

Spoiler

Lhyonnaes (paraphrased)

Alright, thanks. Last question for me tonight - so, when a Hemalurgic spike steals something, then it's storing Investiture in it, yeah? So could you - could you do something with that Investiture? Like... say I'm on Nalthis, and just theoretically, I use a Hemalurgic spike to steal a lot of Breath - can I use that Investiture to Awaken something? Could I Awaken the spike?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That... you'd need a lot of Investiture to Awaken a spike.

Lhyonnaes (paraphrased)

Because it's already charged up with something else?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Say you have a Feruchemist who pours Identity into a metalmind. Then subsequently loses that mind, and then is later Awakened? Would that mind retain the personality of--

*Everyone laughs, Scottish man says "it's 11 o'clock at night, give the man a break!"*

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so they store Identity—which I haven't told you what it does--

Questioner

Yep. We don't know.

Brandon Sanderson

And then you Awaken it, and then you want to know if it has the personality of the person?

Questioner

Yeah, or if it's able to communicate in any way.

Brandon Sanderson

Um, if-- how much Awakened is it? Is it Nightblood-level Awakened? Or is it just regular Awakened?

Questioner

Sure let's say Nightblood-level.

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood-level. So it's-- so the Investiture has been granted sapience. And it's got Investiture from somebody else stuffed in it. I can foresee a scenario where that has an influence, but it's not going to be the personality of the person who stuffed it in. I can see some circumstances where they can-- where the Investiture of the object can make use of that in some way, but...

Oh boy, that was a weird one.

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

 

[Aeoryi she/her]

13 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Then your investiture will be resisted by Breaths in the metal, making it harder for you to store in it. Or it would act as a partially filled metalmind by another Feruchemist - less space for your attributes and you can feel those Breaths there inaccessible to you.

There aren't any WoBs on that but some regarding Awakening spikes or metalminds:

  Reveal hidden contents

Lhyonnaes (paraphrased)

Alright, thanks. Last question for me tonight - so, when a Hemalurgic spike steals something, then it's storing Investiture in it, yeah? So could you - could you do something with that Investiture? Like... say I'm on Nalthis, and just theoretically, I use a Hemalurgic spike to steal a lot of Breath - can I use that Investiture to Awaken something? Could I Awaken the spike?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That... you'd need a lot of Investiture to Awaken a spike.

Lhyonnaes (paraphrased)

Because it's already charged up with something else?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Say you have a Feruchemist who pours Identity into a metalmind. Then subsequently loses that mind, and then is later Awakened? Would that mind retain the personality of--

*Everyone laughs, Scottish man says "it's 11 o'clock at night, give the man a break!"*

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so they store Identity—which I haven't told you what it does--

Questioner

Yep. We don't know.

Brandon Sanderson

And then you Awaken it, and then you want to know if it has the personality of the person?

Questioner

Yeah, or if it's able to communicate in any way.

Brandon Sanderson

Um, if-- how much Awakened is it? Is it Nightblood-level Awakened? Or is it just regular Awakened?

Questioner

Sure let's say Nightblood-level.

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood-level. So it's-- so the Investiture has been granted sapience. And it's got Investiture from somebody else stuffed in it. I can foresee a scenario where that has an influence, but it's not going to be the personality of the person who stuffed it in. I can see some circumstances where they can-- where the Investiture of the object can make use of that in some way, but...

Oh boy, that was a weird one.

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

 

So breaths can be stored in metal the same way feruchemists can store their attributes? 

Then could you make in theory unkeyed breaths? Even though that would have no purpose, it would be interesting...

[alder24]

Just now, Aeoliae said:

So breaths can be stored in metal the same way feruchemists can store their attributes? 

Well, they’re both investiture, and they both can fill a piece of metal, and a piece of metal can be full of investiture, so I think this might be possible. It won't be exactly like Feruchemist does, but both Feruchemy and Awakening invest objects.

And you can put inactive Breaths in metals without 9th Heightening, just with a command "my Breath to yours".

Spoiler

Chris King

Can you store Breath in metal without the [Ninth] Heightening? Just put it there without Awakening, just to hide the Breath.

Brandon Sanderson

Can you hide Breath in-- Yes you can hide Breath in things.

Chris King

Metal in particular, without the [Ninth] Heightening could you put it into metal. Without the purpose of Awakening it, just storing it there.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh without the [Ninth] Heightening-- I would say yes you could.

Chris King interview (Sept. 24, 2013)

 

1 minute ago, Aeoliae said:

Then could you make in theory unkeyed breaths? Even though that would have no purpose, it would be interesting...

Yes, and if you Awaken with unkeyed Breaths anyone would be able to recover those Breaths.

Spoiler

Mojonero

If someone without Identity Awakened an object, would anyone be able to recall the Breath? Would they need to have any breath to recall it, or could it be done by anyone at all?

Brandon Sanderson

If you could blank Identity + Awaken, yes, anyone could get it back.

(Requires intent)

RoW Release Party (Nov. 17, 2020)

 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

31 minutes ago, Aeoliae said:

Could you awaken a piece of metal AND then store something Inside? The metal wouldn't have investiture when it is awakened, and so could it be possible?

 

22 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Then your investiture will be resisted by Breaths in the metal, making it harder for you to store in it. Or it would act as a partially filled metalmind by another Feruchemist - less space for your attributes and you can feel those Breaths there inaccessible to you.

There aren't any WoBs on that but some regarding Awakening spikes or metalminds:

  Hide contents

Lhyonnaes (paraphrased)

Alright, thanks. Last question for me tonight - so, when a Hemalurgic spike steals something, then it's storing Investiture in it, yeah? So could you - could you do something with that Investiture? Like... say I'm on Nalthis, and just theoretically, I use a Hemalurgic spike to steal a lot of Breath - can I use that Investiture to Awaken something? Could I Awaken the spike?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That... you'd need a lot of Investiture to Awaken a spike.

Lhyonnaes (paraphrased)

Because it's already charged up with something else?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

  Hide contents

Questioner

Say you have a Feruchemist who pours Identity into a metalmind. Then subsequently loses that mind, and then is later Awakened? Would that mind retain the personality of--

*Everyone laughs, Scottish man says "it's 11 o'clock at night, give the man a break!"*

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so they store Identity—which I haven't told you what it does--

Questioner

Yep. We don't know.

Brandon Sanderson

And then you Awaken it, and then you want to know if it has the personality of the person?

Questioner

Yeah, or if it's able to communicate in any way.

Brandon Sanderson

Um, if-- how much Awakened is it? Is it Nightblood-level Awakened? Or is it just regular Awakened?

Questioner

Sure let's say Nightblood-level.

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood-level. So it's-- so the Investiture has been granted sapience. And it's got Investiture from somebody else stuffed in it. I can foresee a scenario where that has an influence, but it's not going to be the personality of the person who stuffed it in. I can see some circumstances where they can-- where the Investiture of the object can make use of that in some way, but...

Oh boy, that was a weird one.

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

 

I am curious if awakening metalminds that already have investiture might require less total breaths to awaken instead using part of the stored attributes as the investiture needed.

I don't know how that would interact with retrieving breaths or how well the awakened metalmind would function as that investiture in attribute form would work after draining the metalmind.  Perhaps it would be worse at functioning or take away part of the sentience.  

If you have a steel dagger and you have loaded it up with stored speed and then you awaken it and force breaths in to make it a sentient weapon... what happens to that sentience when you draw on the speed?  Or could the speed be locked into it and simply require a few less breaths due to it already being invested to a degree?  Or could it simply be a buffer to create a weapon with self awareness but not quite full sentience?  The idea that you could titrate the potency of your awakened steel by how much space there is in the steel for breath to fit.  More attribute = less breath = steps below nightblood and closer to vivennas blade. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[alder24]

Just now, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I am curious if awakening metalminds that already have investiture might require less total breaths to awaken instead using part of the stored attributes as the investiture needed.

No. Those are different types of investiture, likely with different identities, keyed to different Shards. It would be like trying to use Stormlight to Awaken, impossible without changing Stormlight into Breaths first. It would require more Breaths because there are different types of investiture resisting each other, so you need more investiture to break through that investiture resisting yours.

Spoiler

Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

Extesian

This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.

But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases...

You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it.

Celestial_Blu3

How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid.

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

 

3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If you have a steel dagger and you have loaded it up with stored speed and then you awaken it and force breaths in to make it a sentient weapon... what happens to that sentience when you draw on the speed?  Or could the speed be locked into it and simply require a few less breaths due to it already being invested to a degree?  

It's possible that all of your speed would now be inaccessible to you as the whole steel dagger just got a new identity, different from yours and it would contaminate your attribute stored in there. If that speed isn't unkeyed, that dagger won't be able to access it either.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

12 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No. Those are different types of investiture, likely with different identities, keyed to different Shards. It would be like trying to use Stormlight to Awaken, impossible without changing Stormlight into Breaths first. It would require more Breaths because there are different types of investiture resisting each other, so you need more investiture to break through that investiture resisting yours.

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Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

Extesian

This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.

But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases...

You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it.

Celestial_Blu3

How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid.

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

 

It's possible that all of your speed would now be inaccessible to you as the whole steel dagger just got a new identity, different from yours and it would contaminate your attribute stored in there. If that speed isn't unkeyed, that dagger won't be able to access it either.

Sadly we don't know enough about Aluminum and Duralumin feruchemy to jump to more conclusions. 

That said it would be insane if the dagger had an identity of its own and the ability to draw on that attribute.  

In the case of the steel cable arms having them capable of drawing on stored speed to move quicker and more fluidly would be bonkers.  

I am sure I am well into the realm of impossible... doesn't stop my wonderings.    

 

Another side curiosity I have is combining Aether with awakening.  No I haven't read Tress but I didn't get the bundle or whatever either.  I am not sure when I will get around to it as I have edgedancer, Dawnshard, RoW on my current list as well as Elantris.  I will eventually read Tress but if it is magic related I beg for the spoilers.  I don't much care for story.  I just want the magic.  

Could you awaken a roseite dagger that you just formed?  If you could would it turn to dust when you drop it and lose all of those breaths?  Would it become permanent shardblade?  Would it be a blade capable of cutting that you could recover the breaths from?  

Honestly my love for cosmere is 99% learning the magicsystems and thinking of interactions... 1% story.  So don't worry about spoiling anything for me.  

[therunner he/him]

6 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

That said it would be insane if the dagger had an identity of its own and the ability to draw on that attribute. 

I mean, steel dagger tapping steel would do exactly nothing to the dagger. F-Steel stores effectively muscle speed, not speed of being moved around.
And since steel dagger cannot move itself, F-Steel would not enable it do to anything at all.

6 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

In the case of the steel cable arms having them capable of drawing on stored speed to move quicker and more fluidly would be bonkers. 

Here possibly yes, depending on how F-steel would interact with the 'physiology' of the awakened construct.

So far we have only seen humans draw on human metalminds (and one Kandra, that however had human body at the time). So it is possible drawing on metalmind of different species/body plan would change the effects, and some might not do anything at all.

E.g. species without eyes would get no benefit at all from stored F-Tin eyesight.

Edited July 23, 2023 by therunner

[Aeoryi she/her]

3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Sadly we don't know enough about Aluminum and Duralumin feruchemy to jump to more conclusions. 

That said it would be insane if the dagger had an identity of its own and the ability to draw on that attribute.  

In the case of the steel cable arms having them capable of drawing on stored speed to move quicker and more fluidly would be bonkers.  

I am sure I am well into the realm of impossible... doesn't stop my wonderings.    

 

Another side curiosity I have is combining Aether with awakening.  No I haven't read Tress but I didn't get the bundle or whatever either.  I am not sure when I will get around to it as I have edgedancer, Dawnshard, RoW on my current list as well as Elantris.  I will eventually read Tress but if it is magic related I beg for the spoilers.  I don't much care for story.  I just want the magic.  

Could you awaken a roseite dagger that you just formed?  If you could would it turn to dust when you drop it and lose all of those breaths?  Would it become permanent shardblade?  Would it be a blade capable of cutting that you could recover the breaths from?  

Honestly my love for cosmere is 99% learning the magicsystems and thinking of interactions... 1% story.  So don't worry about spoiling anything for me.  

I don't think the Dagger would be able to use the stored speed. The dagger (steel one) can't tap itself probably since it doesn't technically have contact with the metalmind, something that is required. 

The aether breath thing probably wouldn't work. The way I understand aether (I haven't read Lost Metal) is that it's part of a larger being. Since alive people can't be awakened, I don't think Aether can as well

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

That said it would be insane if the dagger had an identity of its own and the ability to draw on that attribute.  

The dagger like Nightblood would have their own identity, and the attribute would be keyed to Feruchemist - not usable for the dagger. But if it's unkeyed attribute, the object could use that but only under special circumstances, whatever they are:

Spoiler

Questioner

Say you have a Feruchemist who pours Identity into a metalmind. Then subsequently loses that mind, and then is later Awakened? Would that mind retain the personality of--

*Everyone laughs, Scottish man says "it's 11 o'clock at night, give the man a break!"*

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so they store Identity—which I haven't told you what it does--

Questioner

Yep. We don't know.

Brandon Sanderson

And then you Awaken it, and then you want to know if it has the personality of the person?

Questioner

Yeah, or if it's able to communicate in any way.

Brandon Sanderson

Um, if-- how much Awakened is it? Is it Nightblood-level Awakened? Or is it just regular Awakened?

Questioner

Sure let's say Nightblood-level.

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood-level. So it's-- so the Investiture has been granted sapience. And it's got Investiture from somebody else stuffed in it. I can foresee a scenario where that has an influence, but it's not going to be the personality of the person who stuffed it in. I can see some circumstances where they can-- where the Investiture of the object can make use of that in some way, but...

Oh boy, that was a weird one.

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

 

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

In the case of the steel cable arms having them capable of drawing on stored speed to move quicker and more fluidly would be bonkers.  

I don't think simple Awakened objects can tap metalminds, Lifeless can, but they have self-awareness and brain.

7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Another side curiosity I have is combining Aether with awakening.  No I haven't read Tress but I didn't get the bundle or whatever either.  I am not sure when I will get around to it as I have edgedancer, Dawnshard, RoW on my current list as well as Elantris.  I will eventually read Tress but if it is magic related I beg for the spoilers.  I don't much care for story.  I just want the magic.  

Ok, Tress spoilers:

Spoiler

They have Awakened circuits. The device utilizes Connection, working only for a single person. It's a writing tablet for deaf person, it predicts what words he might use and shows on a display what other people say.

 

10 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Could you awaken a roseite dagger that you just formed?  If you could would it turn to dust when you drop it and lose all of those breaths?  Would it become permanent shardblade?  Would it be a blade capable of cutting that you could recover the breaths from?  

Roseite is likely invested. It's a part of a Primal Aether. So no.