Design being a physical being

[Zackarcanum he/him]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW IN THE WORLD DESIGN HAS A PHYSICAL BODY?? AND DOES THIS MEAN THAT IN STORMLIGHT 5 SYL WILL ALSO FIND A WAY TO MANIFEST INTO PHYSICAL FORM AND BE WITH KALADIN??

[Firesong she/her]

Syl is mentally a child, and they show no signs of romantic interest in each other, please do not ship them together like that, it is creepy. 

[Zackarcanum he/him]

6 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Syl is mentally a child, and they show no signs of romantic interest in each other, please do not ship them together like that, it is creepy. 

What i meant was just that they will be together in the same form and they will have same physical form with same laws of movement and all that… not that they will actually BE together!! 

[Firesong she/her]

4 minutes ago, Zackarcanum said:

What i meant was just that they will be together in the same form and they will have same physical form with same laws of movement and all that… not that they will actually BE together!! 

Oh, I'm sorry, my bad. 

We don't fully understand how Design was given a physical form, but it is definitely related to whatever Ishar was doing. We will likely get more on what exactly happened in SA5. 

It might have to do with the Lightweaving wireframe, but iirc that was mostly about how she looked the way she did, and how she didn't just instantly collapse and die like the Cryptics that Ishar tried to bring into the PR.  

Edited July 17, 2023 by Firesong

[Frustration he/him]

26 minutes ago, Firesong said:

We don't fully understand how Design was given a physical form, but it is definitely related to whatever Ishar was doing. We will likely get more on what exactly happened in SA5. 

Yes we do, and no it doesn't.

 

Hoid said that he made a wire cage and put something on it that made it feel solid, attached a lightweaving to it and then let Design control the thing.

[Firesong she/her]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Yes we do, and no it doesn't.

 

Hoid said that he made a wire cage and put something on it that made it feel solid, attached a lightweaving to it and then let Design control the thing.

I remembered that the frame was just to give her that appearance, I'll have to reread that section. If I did misremember, I apologize. 

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, Firesong said:

I remembered that the frame was just to give her that appearance, I'll have to reread that section. If I did misremember, I apologize. 

Don't apologize we all do it. There is nothing to be ashamed of when it comes to faulty memory.

[Firesong she/her]

Just now, Frustration said:

Don't apologize we all do it. There is nothing to be ashamed of when it comes to faulty memory.

Yeah, we don't fully know

Quote

It wasn’t an actual body—we all kind of learned our lesson on that—
but rather a complicated wireframe Lightweaving with force projections
attached directly to her cognitive element as it manifested in the physical
realm. But as I was getting pretty good at the technical side of all this,
you can pretend it functioned the same as flesh and blood.

While we get how the lightweaving part works, at least we understand it pretty well. The "force projections" part that gives her the physical aspect is something we don't fully get yet, but we can get ideas of it. 

 

[Treamayne]

17 minutes ago, Frustration said:

44 minutes ago, Firesong said:

definitely related to whatever Ishar was doing

no it doesn't.

8 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I remembered that the frame was just to give her that appearance, I'll have to reread that section. If I did misremember, I apologize. 

I think alder's quoted comment was about the relation to Ishar's experiments since Hoid specifically calls out what he did as being different and unrelated. YNP Ch 5:

Spoiler

I should say it in her words: “Make me pretty so they’ll be extra disturbed if my face ever unravels. And give me voluptuous curves, because they remind me of a graphed cosine. And also because boobs look fun.”

It wasn’t an actual body—we all kind of learned our lesson on that—but rather a complicated wireframe Lightweaving with force projections attached directly to her cognitive element as it manifested in the physical realm. But as I was getting pretty good at the technical side of all this, you can pretend it functioned the same as flesh and blood.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Treamayne

[The Stormfather He/Him]

I think it was like what shallan did in the battle of thaylen field where she gave her lightweavings weight, but more complex. Remember when shallan attached the lightweaving to pattern? Hoid probably did that to design but attaching different pieces to differentangles so when design moves slightly on the ground it moves the body in different ways.

[Wandering Shade]

20 hours ago, Stormform said:

I think it was like what shallan did in the battle of thaylen field where she gave her lightweavings weight, but more complex. Remember when shallan attached the lightweaving to pattern? Hoid probably did that to design but attaching different pieces to differentangles so when design moves slightly on the ground it moves the body in different ways.

I think that's exactly it.

[Lightspine]

A bit of a tangent but this quote really makes me worried about Ishar's experiments.

Quote

It wasn’t an actual body—we all kind of learned our lesson on that—but rather a complicated wireframe Lightweaving with force projections attached directly to her cognitive element as it manifested in the physical realm.

Like, I think this implies something pretty significantly messed up happens as a consequence of what Ishar is doing.

[Firesong she/her]

58 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

A bit of a tangent but this quote really makes me worried about Ishar's experiments.

Like, I think this implies something pretty significantly messed up happens as a consequence of what Ishar is doing.

We have seen his experiments (well, we have seen the results), and already know what that bad thing is, at least part of it. We have seen that Cryptics tend to just die when you try and move their Cognitive Aspect into the Physical Realm. It likely has other aspects to it that makes it even worse, but I do feel the main thing it is referencing is just how to kills them. Which wouldn't be good for them as Hoid and Design are bonded, so her death would not be good on his soul or psyche, and he also cares deeply for her so wouldn't want her to die anyway. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Firesong

[bmcclure7]

On 7/17/2023 at 1:26 PM, Firesong said:

Syl is mentally a child, and they show no signs of romantic interest in each other, please do not ship them together like that, it is creepy. 

Syl is not mentally a child.  Are you crazy? 

[Firesong she/her]

42 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Syl is not mentally a child.  Are you crazy? 

No need for such aggression. Such aggression and ad hominid attacks are not suitable for this forum. And while I don't mean any disrespect, I feel we haven't read the same book if you think she has the mental age of an adult. She has a few moments of more maturity, but is ultimately a child. 

Her lack of mental maturity is lampshaded by the work. 

Quote

Sylphrena is both old and young. Old of form, but young of mind. 

She has difficulty understanding more complex morals, is obsessed with praise in a very child-like way. When she manifests her clothing has a "girlish cut". Brandon says he in various ways based on on his kid. For a while she had a very simplistic view on emotions and how to deal with depression and trauma in others, etc. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Firesong

[Zackarcanum he/him]

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

No need for such aggression. Such aggression and ad hominid attacks are not suitable for this forum. And while I don't mean any disrespect, I feel we haven't read the same book if you think she has the mental age of an adult. She has a few moments of more maturity, but is ultimately a child. 

Her lack of mental maturity is lampshaded by the work. 

She has difficulty understanding more complex morals, is obsessed with praise in a very child-like way. When she manifests her clothing has a "girlish cut". Brandon says he in various ways based on on his kid. For a while she had a very simplistic view on emotions and how to deal with depression and trauma in others, etc. 

I totally agree with you and I’m sorry you had this kind of aggression on my thread

[Firesong she/her]

7 minutes ago, Zackarcanum said:

I totally agree with you and I’m sorry you had this kind of aggression on my thread

Nah, its not your fault at all. I just misunderstood your first message, which led to this. You don't have to apologize at all. 

[bmcclure7]

5 hours ago, Firesong said:

No need for such aggression. Such aggression and ad hominid attacks are not suitable for this forum. And while I don't mean any disrespect, I feel we haven't read the same book if you think she has the mental age of an adult. She has a few moments of more maturity, but is ultimately a child. 

Her lack of mental maturity is lampshaded by the work. 

She has difficulty understanding more complex morals, is obsessed with praise in a very child-like way. When she manifests her clothing has a "girlish cut". Brandon says he in various ways based on on his kid. For a while she had a very simplistic view on emotions and how to deal with depression and trauma in others, etc. 

My words were not meant as a attack but to Express shock and incredulity upon hear sush a clear false statement. 

Yes do think we have read different books or rather I think you haven't read the stormlight achieve at all. 

Syl has not had the mind of a child since the end of book 1. Since then she has always acted like a adult (how be it one with hdhd and the natural ignorance of human interaction that all Spren have regardless of age).

 

Think about it for a second.  Would kal (who's own brother died a child soldier) not be reluctant to take a child into battle much less kill people with her?

And what of the other Spren. Syl is the oldest honnor Spren. Dose this mean the rest are toddlers? 

 

Plenty of adults are love praise as well this means nothing.  And her clothing has been more mature since book 3 start. 

[Firesong she/her]

11 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

My words were not meant as a attack but to Express shock and incredulity upon hear sush a clear false statement. 

Yes do think we have read different books or rather I think you haven't read the stormlight achieve at all. 

Syl has not had the mind of a child since the end of book 1. Since then she has always acted like a adult (how be it one with hdhd and the natural ignorance of human interaction that all Spren have regardless of age).

 

Think about it for a second.  Would kal (who's own brother died a child soldier) not be reluctant to take a child into battle much less kill people with her?

And what of the other Spren. Syl is the oldest honnor Spren. Dose this mean the rest are toddlers? 

 

Plenty of adults are love praise as well this means nothing.  And her clothing has been more mature since book 3 start. 

They actively say multiple times Syl is younger in mind than basically any other Honorspren. I added a quote that depicted this. 

And it is more complex than just a 100% thing. In terms of the things that are important for relationships and consent; she is a child in those capacities. And even in a few other capacities, such as her moral reasoning, which is depicted as very underdeveloped, with things more complicated than a pure black and white confusing her. 

And in the factor of praise, it is the way that she goes about it. Which feels far more based around a developing individual looking for affirmation. 

It is a collection of factors working together. I just get the feeling from reading (and I have read all four main books and the novellas), that she is overall not mature enough for a relationship with Kaladin, despite her being a bit more developed in a few specific areas. 

And I don't get why you are so passionate on saying how the ship is fine? Like, Syl is very much not written as an adult. 

[bmcclure7]

42 minutes ago, Firesong said:

They actively say multiple times Syl is younger in mind than basically any other Honorspren. I added a quote that depicted this. 

And it is more complex than just a 100% thing. In terms of the things that are important for relationships and consent; she is a child in those capacities. And even in a few other capacities, such as her moral reasoning, which is depicted as very underdeveloped, with things more complicated than a pure black and white confusing her. 

And in the factor of praise, it is the way that she goes about it. Which feels far more based around a developing individual looking for affirmation. 

It is a collection of factors working together. I just get the feeling from reading (and I have read all four main books and the novellas), that she is overall not mature enough for a relationship with Kaladin, despite her being a bit more developed in a few specific areas. 

And I don't get why you are so passionate on saying how the ship is fine? Like, Syl is very much not written as an adult. 

How is she a child in turns of relationship consent but not in turms of her consent to kill people?

 

Having a black and white morality system is not a sigh of immaturity but a sigh your not a modern relativist.

Adults also look for ameration what do you think motivates actors and singers?

 

I am passionate because you are slandering the best character in the stormlight achieve Kalidin stormblessed.

 

Your words turn him into abusers exploting a child soldier.  If she is not old enough to consent to a relationship then she can't consent to kill. It's that simple.  

Edited July 22, 2023 by bmcclure7

[Firesong she/her]

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

How is she a child in turns of relationship consent but in turms of her consent to kill people?

 

Having a black and white morality system is not a sigh of immaturity but a sigh your not a modern relativist.

Adults also look for ameration what do you think motivates actors and singers?

 

I am passionate because you are slandering the best character in the stormlight achieve Kalidin stormblessed.

 

Your words turn him into abusers exploting a child soldier.  If she is not old enough to consent to a relationship then she can't consent to kill. It's that simple.  

How is it slander? I like her as a character, I just don't think don't think she is emotionally mature enough in human relationships to engage with Kaladin in that manner. 

 

And on Black and White Morality and maturity, it literally is a sign of maturity. Look at Piaget's or Kohlberg's theory of moral development, moral development is seen as going through various stages. From my observations, Syl is more in a stage of Heteronomous Morality than in one of Autonomous Morality. "It is bad as I was told as such.", and takes that further to mean "those that do this are bad" and that "bad is not good". She doesn't really understand how someone can be more than one shade. To further this argument, in Heteronomous Morality, one bases morality on egocentric viewpoint and typically overly simplistic principles. Whilst Autonomous Morality sees morals as varying between peoples, and tends to lead to the development of a more complex moral compass, this is Moral Relativism, and she doesn't have her sense of moral relativism fully developed. She, as I said before, shows confusion at the idea of moral complexity in those she deems as evil. This is due to the fact that  

In the Kohlberg model, she is a bit more developed, being closer to Stage 4 (I disagree with the separation of 5 and 6 into a post-conventional grouping, as while more abstract, I feel that most people as they develop are able to learn about laws and morals are moreso social contracts that rigid edicts, and that they can differ between people). Stage 4 is defined by "laws, dicta, and social conventions because of their importance in maintaining a functioning society", Kohlberg himself describes this as being an adult stage and the highest conventional stage, but I, as stated before, disagree with this interpretation due to my own observations of others. But my feelings upon the minutia of Kohlberg's theory of moral development isn't exactly relevant to what I am trying to get across. 

Though, as you said, she does show a growth in her moral compass as the story goes on. But she still remains confused by ideas of something being more than black and white. The reason for this moral development can be sourced in the socialization she experiences. This can be traced to the theories of B.F Skinner, who proposed that the moral development of the self comes from the response of the ego to external reinforcement contingencies. Which we see in the work itself, she responds to human interaction and new experiences (reinforcement contingencies) and begins to develop due to it. It is growth, that much I admit, but it is not complete growth. 

When we look at her history, we can see a lack of such socialization before her bond with Kaladin. She bonded with Relador shortly after her creation, and was sent into a deep millennium-long slumber after the first battle. After being fond much later, she was essentially kept solitary and in one place until she escaped and bonded with Kaladin. This lack of socialization explains her lack of moral and psychological development. Her quick fall into slumber, and the overprotectiveness of the Stormfather and Honorspren, left her developmentally stunted. She was the untouchable ancient daughter, lost for a thousand years, and then hidden away and guarded in a city. She never truly got the socialization required for her to undergo development. 

This can also be observed in her social interactions, looking at it through the psychoanalytic lens of Erik Erikson, she fits pretty neatly into Stage 4. She begins to learn more about the world and try to complete tasks, and gains pride and self-esteem through social interactions and praise for the completion of said tasks. Gaining praise and approval is in fact one of the most important factors in ones interactions during this stage of psychosocial development. It is also in this stage that they begin spreading out more into a peer group, and have that group be an important source of identity and self esteem. We can see that Syl has begun to spread out and interact with more people, and she tries her best to get praise from them in order to boost her self-esteem. We can see this is one of her primary motivators. This, I feel, is a stage that we actually observe her entering over the course of the books, as before this, she was far less developed and took initiative and action far less. This stage is experienced primarily between 5 and 12. We also see she carries over an aspect of Stage 3, with her exploration.

We can see some parts of Stage 3 at the beginning of the book, the question in which is "Is it Okay for Me to Do, Move, and Act?", she shows far more hesitance in everything she does, due to a mix of a lower level of development in self-esteem, and by her being afraid of getting in trouble. She is learning basic autonomy and learning basic facts about the world around her. It even took her a while to develop enough confidence in her actions to actually go through and begin talking to Kaladin. As she goes on in this stage, she begins to take initiative more in the transitory state between 3 and 4, and eventually does manage to enter 4 and begin to form more of her own identity and become more developed as a person. 

Quote

 

If we can choose, we can change. If we can't change, then choice means nothing. I’m glad I feel this way, to remind me that I haven’t always felt the same. Been the same. It means that in coming here to find another Knight Radiant, I was deciding. Not simply doing what I was made to, but doing what I wanted to.

Here is an example of Syl commenting upon her development from Stage 3 and through Stage 4. Becoming more confident in herself and her actions, and thus allowing herself more autonomy. I feel this recognition of her own growth, and the capacity to choose and change, is planting to stages for her entry into Stage 5, "Who Am I and What Can I Be?" It is a combination of all stages before, mixed with an anticipation for further growth. The individuals who go through this stage "are confronted by the need to re-establish boundaries for themselves and to do this in the face of an often potentially hostile world", this, I feel, defines the current Syl perfectly. Stage 5 is also often packaged with a beginning of the true formation of an independent identity and sense of self, often manifested as a rebellion against that which they are made to do, as in choosing they explore themselves, and thus define and establish themselves as an independent entity from parents and authority figures. Once again, "I was deciding. Not simply doing what I was made to, but doing what I wanted to." 

I feel as we go on she is going to be looking more into herself and who she is as a person, and thus allowing herself to grow even further. 

 

One way in which she is more developed, as we can observe, is in trauma response. She shows a resilience to mental trauma that is greater than her development in other categories would suggest. This, I feel however, is tied pretty closely with her stage of moral development, wherein she sees the other side as completely irredeemably evil and incapable of doing good, and therefore the guilt of an action would weight less upon her; furthermore, she gains the appreciation of others for helping Kaladin in the fight, and therefore it satiates her desire for praise and approval which she uses to develop her sense of self-esteem and confidence. 

 

I love her as a character, I just do feel she is stunted in various ways due to her past, and I am happy to observe her growth across the books. 

On WoBs about this point

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

How did it feel writing Syl as a character, transitioning *inaudible*?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It took a long time to figure out how I wanted to do her. It took a lot of practice scenes and such. It was very fun when I finally got to do it, because I'd been planning it for so long. It was really just a matter of trying to get inside the head of this creature who is slowly becoming more and more aware of herself. Having children helps, certainly.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Syl Leaves

I hated sending Syl away from Kaladin here, but it had to happen—in part because of how much it hurt to send her away. She's basically the only light left in these scenes with Kaladin in Bridge Four.

Syl wasn't in the original draft of Kings. I developed her over the years between 2003 and 2009; there was a time when the four winds from mythology would be active and alive on Roshar, and she was one of those. Eventually, the spren developed as a concept. They grew out of the greater worldbuilding and magic system rules for the cosmere. (The connected universe of my epic books.)

At that point, she became a sentient spren—one of many that would be in the books. Still, she was very special. I do worry about the Tinkerbell vibe that she gives off to some people. I tried hard to distance her from that. No wings, the constant shape changing, that sort of thing.

Her innocence and childlike nature is an important foil and balance to the darkness in Kaladin's life. Then she leaves, and all innocence is gone from him.

Both essentially refer to her as a child developing and learning more about herself. Like my interpretation suggests.

 

Edit: Sorry for the text wall, I just wanted to explain my perspective on the matter. I feel rather tired after writing all of that, need to get off of the computer for a bit. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Firesong

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

How is it slander? I like her as a character, I just don't think don't think she is emotionally mature enough in human relationships to engage with Kaladin in that manner. 

 

And on Black and White Morality and maturity, it literally is a sign of maturity. Look at Piaget's or Kohlberg's theory of moral development, moral development is seen as going through various stages. From my observations, Syl is more in a stage of Heteronomous Morality than in one of Autonomous Morality. "It is bad as I was told as such.", and takes that further to mean "those that do this are bad" and that "bad is not good". She doesn't really understand how someone can be more than one shade. To further this argument, in Heteronomous Morality, one bases morality on egocentric viewpoint and typically overly simplistic principles. Whilst Autonomous Morality sees morals as varying between peoples, and tends to lead to the development of a more complex moral compass, this is Moral Relativism, and she doesn't have her sense of moral relativism fully developed. She, as I said before, shows confusion at the idea of moral complexity in those she deems as evil. This is due to the fact that  

In the Kohlberg model, she is a bit more developed, being closer to Stage 4 (I disagree with the separation of 5 and 6 into a post-conventional grouping, as while more abstract, I feel that most people as they develop are able to learn about laws and morals are moreso social contracts that rigid edicts, and that they can differ between people). Stage 4 is defined by "laws, dicta, and social conventions because of their importance in maintaining a functioning society", Kohlberg himself describes this as being an adult stage and the highest conventional stage, but I, as stated before, disagree with this interpretation due to my own observations of others. But my feelings upon the minutia of Kohlberg's theory of moral development isn't exactly relevant to what I am trying to get across. 

Though, as you said, she does show a growth in her moral compass as the story goes on. But she still remains confused by ideas of something being more than black and white. The reason for this moral development can be sourced in the socialization she experiences. This can be traced to the theories of B.F Skinner, who proposed that the moral development of the self comes from the response of the ego to external reinforcement contingencies. Which we see in the work itself, she responds to human interaction and new experiences (reinforcement contingencies) and begins to develop due to it. It is growth, that much I admit, but it is not complete growth. 

When we look at her history, we can see a lack of such socialization before her bond with Kaladin. She bonded with Relador shortly after her creation, and was sent into a deep millennium-long slumber after the first battle. After being fond much later, she was essentially kept solitary and in one place until she escaped and bonded with Kaladin. This lack of socialization explains her lack of moral and psychological development. Her quick fall into slumber, and the overprotectiveness of the Stormfather and Honorspren, left her developmentally stunted. She was the untouchable ancient daughter, lost for a thousand years, and then hidden away and guarded in a city. She never truly got the socialization required for her to undergo development. 

This can also be observed in her social interactions, looking at it through the psychoanalytic lens of Erik Erikson, she fits pretty neatly into Stage 4. She begins to learn more about the world and try to complete tasks, and gains pride and self-esteem through social interactions and praise for the completion of said tasks. Gaining praise and approval is in fact one of the most important factors in ones interactions during this stage of psychosocial development. It is also in this stage that they begin spreading out more into a peer group, and have that group be an important source of identity and self esteem. We can see that Syl has begun to spread out and interact with more people, and she tries her best to get praise from them in order to boost her self-esteem. We can see this is one of her primary motivators. This, I feel, is a stage that we actually observe her entering over the course of the books, as before this, she was far less developed and took initiative and action far less. This stage is experienced primarily between 5 and 12. We also see she carries over an aspect of Stage 3, with her exploration.

We can see some parts of Stage 3 at the beginning of the book, the question in which is "Is it Okay for Me to Do, Move, and Act?", she shows far more hesitance in everything she does, due to a mix of a lower level of development in self-esteem, and by her being afraid of getting in trouble. She is learning basic autonomy and learning basic facts about the world around her. It even took her a while to develop enough confidence in her actions to actually go through and begin talking to Kaladin. As she goes on in this stage, she begins to take initiative more in the transitory state between 3 and 4, and eventually does manage to enter 4 and begin to form more of her own identity and become more developed as a person. 

Here is an example of Syl commenting upon her development from Stage 3 and through Stage 4. Becoming more confident in herself and her actions, and thus allowing herself more autonomy. I feel this recognition of her own growth, and the capacity to choose and change, is planting to stages for her entry into Stage 5, "Who Am I and What Can I Be?" It is a combination of all stages before, mixed with an anticipation for further growth. The individuals who go through this stage "are confronted by the need to re-establish boundaries for themselves and to do this in the face of an often potentially hostile world", this, I feel, defines the current Syl perfectly. Stage 5 is also often packaged with a beginning of the true formation of an independent identity and sense of self, often manifested as a rebellion against that which they are made to do, as in choosing they explore themselves, and thus define and establish themselves as an independent entity from parents and authority figures. Once again, "I was deciding. Not simply doing what I was made to, but doing what I wanted to." 

I feel as we go on she is going to be looking more into herself and who she is as a person, and thus allowing herself to grow even further. 

 

One way in which she is more developed, as we can observe, is in trauma response. She shows a resilience to mental trauma that is greater than her development in other categories would suggest. This, I feel however, is tied pretty closely with her stage of moral development, wherein she sees the other side as completely irredeemably evil and incapable of doing good, and therefore the guilt of an action would weight less upon her; furthermore, she gains the appreciation of others for helping Kaladin in the fight, and therefore it satiates her desire for praise and approval which she uses to develop her sense of self-esteem and confidence. 

 

I love her as a character, I just do feel she is stunted in various ways due to her past, and I am happy to observe her growth across the books. 

On WoBs about this point

Both essentially refer to her as a child developing and learning more about herself. Like my interpretation suggests.

 

Edit: Sorry for the text wall, I just wanted to explain my perspective on the matter. I feel rather tired after writing all of that, need to get off of the computer for a bit. 

 

1. It is slander because you implied that he is using her as a child soldier. 

 

2. Both Piaget's or Kohlberg's are mordern realtvists. If you asked any adult a couple hundred years ago they would probably tell you that morality was black and white.  

 

3. She is  a honor spen literally the personification of black and white morality.  It not a sigh of immaturity but of her Spren nature. 

The Storm father was the same way are you calling him a child?

 

 

 

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

It is slander because

7 hours ago, Firesong said:

Sorry for the text wall

1. A thread about the realmatics of creating a meat puppet for Design to animate is not the place for discussing the intricacies of Syl's emotional age and it's impact on her relationships (especially her bonded Radiant). Please make a new thread in an appropriate forum to discuss this topic.
2. Slander is spoken, when written and displayed publicly it is Libel:

Wikipedia:

Spoiler

Depending on the permanence or transience of the communication medium, defamation may be distinguished between libel (written, printed, posted online, published in mass media) and slander (spoken off the record).

On 7/17/2023 at 4:24 PM, Stormform said:

I think it was like what shallan did in the battle of thaylen field where she gave her lightweavings weight, but more complex. Remember when shallan attached the lightweaving to pattern? Hoid probably did that to design but attaching different pieces to differentangles so when design moves slightly on the ground it moves the body in different ways.

The only problem with that theory is that he specifically said it attached to her Cognitive Aspect, and as we saw in OB and RoW - the Cryptics have a full body in the Cognitive (with a symbol head). In YNP, design says she wants people to freak if her lightweaving mask should fail and reveal her "symbolhead."

This likely means it is related to how Shallan could draw the Cognitive Aspect of a Cryptic in the Physical Realm in WoK (Taravangian's Portrait).

[Firesong she/her]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

1. A thread about the realmatics of creating a meat puppet for Design to animate is not the place for discussing the intricacies of Syl's emotional age and it's impact on her relationships (especially her bonded Radiant). Please make a new thread in an appropriate forum to discuss this topic.
2. Slander is spoken, when written and displayed publicly it is Libel:

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The only problem with that theory is that he specifically said it attached to her Cognitive Aspect, and as we saw in OB and RoW - the Cryptics have a full body in the Cognitive (with a symbol head). In YNP, design says she wants people to freak if her lightweaving mask should fail and reveal her "symbolhead."

This likely means it is related to how Shallan could draw the Cognitive Aspect of a Cryptic in the Physical Realm in WoK (Taravangian's Portrait).

Yes, you're right, my apologies. 

[Config2]

On 7/22/2023 at 8:59 AM, Treamayne said:

The only problem with that theory is that he specifically said it attached to her Cognitive Aspect, and as we saw in OB and RoW - the Cryptics have a full body in the Cognitive (with a symbol head). In YNP, design says she wants people to freak if her lightweaving mask should fail and reveal her "symbolhead."

This likely means it is related to how Shallan could draw the Cognitive Aspect of a Cryptic in the Physical Realm in WoK (Taravangian's Portrait).

I'm not sure that it's off-base. In WoR, Shallan attaches lightweavings to Pattern's pattern to move around and act as a distraction. I think Pattern's pattern could be classified as Pattern's cognitive element as it manifests in the physical realm. In Stormlight they talk about pattern's pattern being maddening outside of the CR too. 

I'm pretty sure Shallan has some special stuff going on in the art department; even as a lightweaver she still does some other stuff with her art that is a little bit outside of the scope of what we've seen other lightweavers do. Also, we know that Elsecallers have the ability to see the cognitive elements of spren in the PR at least some of the time (Yasnah at the Battle of Thalyen Field); so that might be something that all lightweavers can do. I'm sure folks here have categorized whether her ability to see the Cognitive Cryptics is a Lightweaver thing or a Shallan thing.

I think the force projections are really the unknown element here: we've seen them in Elantris (in the climax when Raoden makes forcefields), but I think that's the only spot. My guess: the lightweaving forms a framework (a wireframe) and Hoid stapled a bunch of forcefields together to provide the "mass" behind it. Basically the lightweaving lets Hoid use his internalized knowledge of the human form (much like the lightweavers creating human illusions without all being trained artists). Once the outline is there, he can do the more precise math based stuff like the forcefields with precision: kind of like the opposite of putting a template over something you're going to spray paint in order to get crisp(ish) lines.  It helps that we know lightweavings can generate some of the other sensory information (like sound and heat, also probably lasers)) that might give away a positronic robot wearing a human suit.

On the other hand: 

On 7/17/2023 at 2:12 PM, Zackarcanum said:

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW IN THE WORLD DESIGN HAS A PHYSICAL BODY?? AND DOES THIS MEAN THAT IN STORMLIGHT 5 SYL WILL ALSO FIND A WAY TO MANIFEST INTO PHYSICAL FORM AND BE WITH KALADIN??

Syl gives Kal a hug in Oathbringer when they're both in the Cognitive Realm. If you're Kal and really jonesing for a hug from your friend you can take a jaunt through an Oathgate and say hi! Little harder if you're Syl, but I think she is sufficiently capable at annoying Kal until he does what she wants, so she could probably get him to. I think their bigger problem is the lack of time for hugs: A notorious problem when you're important.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Config2