The Nature of the Seventeenth Shard

[Shaggai]

What is the Seventeenth Shard? We know that it's a Cosmere-spanning organization, and that it has connections to Hoid and a dragon. Other than that, we know very little. We don't know its purpose, although there is much speculation, we don't know how large it is, we don't know why it's called the Seventeenth Shard.

 

The last of these is probably the most important one, given the information we already have. There's no way to tell how large it is, and the reasoning behind the name can give away information about the purpose. My theory is this:

 

When Adonalsium Shattered, it didn't Shatter neatly. The Sixteen Shards were created out of Adonalsium, but a significant fraction of Its power did not become part of them. Perhaps this was a result of Adonalsium Investing Itself on Yolen, perhaps Adonalsium had created Splinters previously, or perhaps the Shattering was imperfect. Whatever the cause, large amounts of power remained. Perhaps even Shardic levels of power.

 

The power that remained, unShattered, would have been dangerous, especially in the hands of certain of the Shards. It would also have been, for the most part, conveniently located on Yolen. These two factors would have come together and resulted in the creation of an organization to contain the last remaining fragments of Adonalsium, for the safety of the Cosmere. It is likely that this organization took on the power, to keep it safe. The organization also took its name from these fragments, a seventeenth piece of Adonalsium. The Seventeenth Shard. 

 

Over time, this organization changed. The Seventeenth Shard was safe, and none of the Shards had come for it. The immediate focus of the organization was pointless. But the root cause - the protection of the Cosmere - remained. Various members used their power to travel between the Shardworlds, doing what they could to contain the more dangerous of the Shards. A few scraps of information given to Kelsier, helping him to overthrow the Lord Ruler, setting in motion a chain of events that resulted in the permanent neutralization of Ruin. Stories told to Kaladin, nudging him to act in certain ways. Various other interferences, all helping the Cosmere in the long run. 

 

So the essence of my theory is this:

 

The Seventeenth Shard is the name given to that of Adonalsium's power which was not incorporated into the Shards. The organization of the same name was created to prevent the usage of that power for bad purposes. Over time, the organization shifted and became dedicated to the overall protection of the Cosmere.

 

Various other things:

• This is why Hoid is so hard to kill, and has his specific limitations. He's holding a large Splinter, probably with an Intent which is either incompatible with violence or, combined with his history, drives him not to kill. 
• Hoid's Intent is why he's doing things that the Seventeenth Shard disapprove of. He has to act in certain ways, but those ways tend to not be the same as the ways that the Seventeenth Shard would prefer him not to.
• We can expect to see other people with large amounts of Adonalsium-based power. The dragon(s), for example. There will probably be others as well.

 

So, what say ye?

[lyht]

Interesting Theory. Not sure if I buy it or not... but interesting. One point I can make:

 

...perhaps Adonalsium had created Splinters previously, or perhaps the Shattering was imperfect. Whatever the cause, large amounts of power remained. Perhaps even Shardic levels of power.

 

Yes, Adonalsium had created Splinters previously.

 

 

Brandon:

... So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters.

(http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1078#25)

 

I think my biggest issue with this is that once a power is splintered, how can you pick it up? I dont think you can. That is why Odium splintered Devotion and Dominion on Sel:

 

 

In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse. 

(Way of Kings)

[Shaggai]

Interesting Theory. Not sure if I buy it or not... but interesting. One point I can make:

 

 

Yes, Adonalsium had created Splinters previously.

 

(http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1078#25)

 

I think my biggest issue with this is that once a power is splintered, how can you pick it up? I dont think you can. That is why Odium splintered Devotion and Dominion on Sel:

 

(Way of Kings)

It's possible that it's too difficult for one person to pick up all of the Splinters. If each one has its own minor Intent, the struggle of so many Intents could easily destroy the holder. That would effectively prevent anyone from challenging Odium. The members could also have obtained the power previously.

[Matrim Bloody Cauthon]

It's possible that it's too difficult for one person to pick up all of the Splinters. If each one has its own minor Intent, the struggle of so many Intents could easily destroy the holder. That would effectively prevent anyone from challenging Odium. The members could also have obtained the power previously.

 

and yet sazed combined ruin and preservation into one shard. the shard of harmony.

[Shaggai]

and yet sazed combined ruin and preservation into one shard. the shard of harmony.

Only because he viewed them as a single thing. If someone attempted to pick up, say, Devotion, they would have to take the Splinters one by one, and they couldn't restore Devotion because they wouldn't have enough power. 

[Moogle]

and yet sazed combined ruin and preservation into one shard. the shard of harmony.

 

Sazed also struggles to do anything because of the warring Intents within. If he picked up even more Shards, it could be that he'd be effectively immobilized.

[Paragrin]

Well, the Intents of Ruin and Preservation directly contradict each other. With Intents that don't, the effects would probably be... less straightforward. For example, if someone had managed to get both Ruin and Odium... I would be very scared. But for some, uh, less cosmere-destroying combinations, I could see fun interplay between any two (or more) of Devotion, Endowment, Cultivation and Preservation. And combining Odium with... well, pretty much anything else would probably result in the kind of fun that has double exclamation points around it.

[lyht]

and yet sazed combined ruin and preservation into one shard. the shard of harmony.

Ruin and Preservation were not splintered. They were just unheld power. I think that makes a big difference. How do you take investiture out of a spren or seon? Or nightblood?

[Matrim Bloody Cauthon]

All of you are true. But i think that yes they were in direct opposition but also they were full shards meaning more power and harder to control.

[Shaggai]

Even if the Intents didn't contradict each other, and weren't as strong as Shardic Intents, enough of them could render a person unable to act.

[Helwar]

Well, I think Sazed has absolutely no problem because the intents he holds contradict each other in mostly the same amount.

 

If we make a scale of how Ruinous or Preservative is Sazed and mark as point zero how he is without the shards, every shard is trying to push him towards the opposite side of the other, most notably canceling each other.

 

That's why I think Sazed can do whatever he wants because his new shard doesn't have an intend. And if it has an intend, it's not the sum of Ruin + Preservation, but a different one, the intent of being in Harmony, to get along... But that's especulating a lot. Mainly I think that he has the benefits of holding two shards but none of the drawbacks, because those drawbacks cancel each other.

 

 

Now talking on topic:

 

Basically you believe that Adonalsium was like pizza dough, and when It shattered everyone took a different shaped mold and cut a piece, and the 17th shard is the rest of the dough, full of holes.

 

I don't know... I really don't think that's the case. Something about that idea sounds tasty, but not exactly right.

 

I don't think that the members have any kind of "godly power". Sure they are awesome and powerfull, they can all worldhop and are quite capable... But I think their real strength is just Information. They know about the cosmere, in a way, they break the proverbial fourth wall that's been set on each of the shardworlds. As far as I know you don't need to be ultrapowerfull to worldhop, just know that there are worlds to be hopped in, and know about a method (which is unkown yet). They would not be able to stop the events at the shattered plains with the wave of a hand, as many believe. Information is powerful, but not THAT much.

 

ALSO! Hoid is not part of the 17th shard, anything of these things explain his "powers". And as far as I know he's not that powerfull. As before, he is smart, and knows a lot of things, and knowledge = power. And he is almost inmortal, yes. He has in himself the magic powers of many shardworlds so yes, he is quite the guy, but I wouldn't put him at shard level.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Helwar

[Swimmingly]

Though I believe Brandon has put him in as the most powerful non-shard in the Cosmere - assuming no others are shattered, that makes him the 14th most powerful sentient being in the Cosmere. Though apparently Khriss knows more.

[Shaggai]

Well, I think Sazed has absolutely no problem because the intents he holds contradict each other in mostly the same amount.

 

If we make a scale of how Ruinous or Preservative is Sazed and mark as point zero how he is without the shards, every shard is trying to push him towards the opposite side of the other, most notably canceling each other.

 

That's why I think Sazed can do whatever he wants because his new shard doesn't have an intend. And if it has an intend, it's not the sum of Ruin + Preservation, but a different one, the intent of being in Harmony, to get along... But that's especulating a lot. Mainly I think that he has the benefits of holding two shards but none of the drawbacks, because those drawbacks cancel each other.

 

 

Now talking on topic:

 

Basically you believe that Adonalsium was like pizza dough, and when It shattered everyone took a different shaped mold and cut a piece, and the 17th shard is the rest of the dough, full of holes.

 

I don't know... I really don't think that's the case. Something about that idea sounds tasty, but not exactly right.

 

I don't think that the members have any kind of "godly power". Sure they are awesome and powerfull, they can all worldhop and are quite capable... But I think their real strength is just Information. They know about the cosmere, in a way, they break the proverbial fourth wall that's been set on each of the shardworlds. As far as I know you don't need to be ultrapowerfull to worldhop, just know that there are worlds to be hopped in, and know about a method (which is unkown yet). They would not be able to stop the events at the shattered plains with the wave of a hand, as many believe. Information is powerful, but not THAT much.

 

ALSO! Hoid is not part of the 17th shard, anything of these things explain his "powers". And as far as I know he's not that powerfull. As before, he is smart, and knows a lot of things, and knowledge = power. And he is almost inmortal, yes. He has in himself the magic powers of many shardworlds so yes, he is quite the guy, but I wouldn't put him at shard level.

I'm not taking any one view of the Shattering. There are multiple different ways that the extra power could have existed. But one way of viewing the Shattering is like dropping a piece of glass, perhaps one that has been weakened along certain lines. It will break into a few large pieces, but quite a bit of it will break into much smaller pieces. The original members would each have one of these pieces. It's not enough to make a god, unless you gather it all up into one place, but it's still something. 

[Moogle]

Well, I think Sazed has absolutely no problem because the intents he holds contradict each other in mostly the same amount.

 

Sazed does actually have problems. WoB:

ericth

Could Sazed take down Rayse since he has two shards?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Rayse is VERY scared of Sazed. However, given Sazed is a composite of two diametrically opposed shards, he finds it very difficult to act.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Moogle

[anarchitect]

OR... what if Adonalsium was an egg and when it hatched, its shell exploded in 16 shards and the organization is led by the "17th shard", which is in fact the hatched dragon

[tobar14]

Well, the Intents of Ruin and Preservation directly contradict each other. With Intents that don't, the effects would probably be... less straightforward. For example, if someone had managed to get both Ruin and Odium... I would be very scared. But for some, uh, less cosmere-destroying combinations, I could see fun interplay between any two (or more) of Devotion, Endowment, Cultivation and Preservation. And combining Odium with... well, pretty much anything else would probably result in the kind of fun that has double exclamation points around it.

They only contradict each other when they are apart.  Together, they are a perfect match and work well together.  Opposites attract, yin and yang, all that good stuff. 

[Emerald101]

 

They only contradict each other when they are apart.  Together, they are a perfect match and work well together.  Opposites attract, yin and yang, all that good stuff. 

 

 

You might want to take a look at the part of this post that deals with necroing.

 

Edit: forgot to actually quote you.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Emerald101

[tobar14]

 

 

 

 

You might want to take a look at the part of this post that deals with necroing.

 

Edit: forgot to actually quote you.

 

Whoops, totally did not read the date of this forum.  I was just bored at work, my bad.

[Alfa]

It seems, that the 17S is interested in seeking quite powerful people,

Demoux

for example. More "Splinterholders", or used for other jobs?

[Emerald101]

Whoops, totally did not read the date of this forum.  I was just bored at work, my bad.

 

I figured, just wanted to let you know.

 

Edit: Hey, 200th post!

Edited August 7, 2015 by Emerald101

[Blue Skies]

My guess is that the seventeenth shard is being distributed among multiple people so it can be contained. If it even is a shard and not just the name of the organisation. Huh now that I've written this out I realise my own understanding of the 17th shard is almost no existent. 

 

 I think Hoid isn't part of the 17th Shard I think he is the 17th Shard. Although I don't have any evidence towards it and really just a guess.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Avalon Blue

[natc]

I'm pretty sure we already know it's literally just a name for the organization.

The Shards of Adonalsium number 16. The end.

Edited August 15, 2015 by natc

[Shaggai]

I'm pretty sure we already know it's literally just a name for the organization.

The Shards of Adonalsium number 16. The end.

Do you have any source for that claim? We know pretty much nothing about the organization. I don't think you have nearly enough evidence to be as certain as you sound.

 

Sure, full-sized Shards. That doesn't preclude the existence of a bunch of Splinters which, combined, are nearly as powerful as a Shard.

[ParadoxicalZen]

 

Interview: Oct 14th, 2013

Steelheart Signing Report - Shardlet (Verbatim)

Wetlander

Please explain what you will about Shards and Splintering and Slivers.

Brandon Sanderson

An event happened long ago which destroyed something called Adonalsium into 16 pieces. And 16 people took up that power.

Question

People?

 

 

WoB cut for relevancy. It seems to me that Adonalsium was shattered into 16 equal pieces, or nigh on near enough anyway (excluding prior events of Investing things. It seems to me that the 17th shard isn't meant to be taken as an actual Shard but to be interpreted/seen as more of a metaphorical/physical/underlying representation of an extra Intent  

Edited August 15, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[STINK]

Do we know if there was anything opposing Adonalsium before it was shattered? Because there might be some 'super evil' in the cosmere that the 17th Shard might be working towards stopping, with Hoid having information about this other force.