Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 So I am going off of a few WoBs that I have found and would love to hear any conflicting thoughts you all have. Spoiler Matthew Grady Does a metal need to be swallowed to be burned? Or can it be injected or snorted? Brandon Sanderson It could be either of those two things. Yes. Basically, metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. There's nothing magical about the stomach, even though it works the best when we talk about it. It's just more intermixing the nature of the metal with your soul in the cosmere, your Spiritual entity, is what gives them that ability. YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020) Spoiler Xais56 Brandon has said that everyone ought to be able to burn Atium, like they can all burn Lerasium, and the fact that they can't was an oversight on his part that he would've done different in hindsight. Maybe now he's had an in-universe reason to re-write the laws of allomancy it's back to his intended concept; Mistborn burn all 16 base metals, mistings burn one base metal, non-allomancers can only burn godmetal. Peter Ahlstrom My explanation for this is that Preservation somehow caused all naturally occurring atium to form as an alloy of atium and electrum. The atium Mistings were actually electrum Mistings. Kingsdaughter613 Primary question: Peter recently said something about atium in Era 1 actually being an atium-electrum alloy. Is this accurate? Brandon Sanderson This is accurate, yes. With this knowledge coupled with the fact that aluminum is going to become cheap and highly available on Scadrial in the near future... Wouldn't an aluminum savant be able to completely destroy any shardblade attacks? They are made of pure gold metal and aluminum instantly burns all metals. What would this do to the spren? What would this do to the radiant? The aluminum mistings soul wouldn't be severed because the cutting edge would vanish and be burnt away as soon as it passes the first layers of skin. I don't know if this is the same as leeching as it is not draining the power with no effect and instead burning and making all usable metals disappear. If this process kills a spren would the radiant be left without any surgebinding powers and the ability to use stormlight as well? Please dismantal this theory quickly. It seems bonkers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underwater_Worldhopper Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Wouldn't an aluminum savant be able to completely destroy any shardblade attacks? They are made of pure gold metal and aluminum instantly burns all metals. If they could burn Aluminum while the Shardblade was going through them, they could make the Blade (at the very least the bit currently passing through them) vanish. This would probably force the Spren out of their Blade form and back into however they usually manifest in the PR, but wouldn't hurt them (permanently). 7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: What would this do to the spren? What would this do to the radiant? Nothing lasting, so far as we can tell. 7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: The aluminum mistings soul wouldn't be severed because the cutting edge would vanish and be burnt away as soon as it passes the first layers of skin. Well, it wouldn't just make them immune to it. They'd have to burn Aluminum while the Shardblade passed through them, and they'd have to swallow more each time. 7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I don't know if this is the same as leeching as it is not draining the power with no effect and instead burning and making all usable metals disappear. So far as we can tell, it is the same. 7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: If this process kills a spren would the radiant be left without any surgebinding powers and the ability to use stormlight as well? Probably wouldn't, but we can never be too sure. The Surgebinder should be unaffected unless we just non-existed the Spren, in which case the Surgebinder would be horrifically traumatised and lose their powers, as well as maybe becoming something akin to a Drab. 7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Please dismantal this theory quickly. It seems bonkers. Honestly, it's a good way to disorient and take a Shardbearer by surprise. It would definitely work way better on someone with a Deadblade, since you'd need to refill your Aluminum reserve, but still, it's been a while since someone found a legit use for Aluminium. Kudos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 40 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: With this knowledge coupled with the fact that aluminum is going to become cheap and highly available on Scadrial in the near future... Wouldn't an aluminum savant be able to completely destroy any shardblade attacks? They are made of pure gold metal and aluminum instantly burns all metals. What would this do to the spren? What would this do to the radiant? That's an interesting question. But I think the answer is no, burning aluminum won't burn off a Shardblade. That's because burning aluminum won't destroy a hemalurgic spike and its charge: Spoiler Questioner If someone had a Hemalurgic spike and they burned aluminum, would the negation of-- am I going to get RAFO'd? Brandon Sanderson You're asking if it would destroy the Hemalurgic power? Burning aluminum at that point would not destroy the Hemalurgic power. It would pull the Investiture through whatever you're doing. It would blank your power, but it wouldn't destroy you being an Allomancer with the spike... I actually considered this in building it and that would be too easy a way to remove Inquisitors, particularly if there were dissension between them. Skyward Atlanta signing (Nov. 17, 2018) And it is answered, Leecher can't destroy a Shardblade, aluminum gnat won't be able as well: Spoiler Questioner If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power... Questioner Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well. Brandon Sanderson Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so. Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016) It might grant you some protection against Shardblade cutting through your soul or maybe even prevent it from happening - I doubt it however. But I think something will be happening. Spoiler Kurkistan If you're on Threnody and you get withered by a shade, are you better off burning Allomantic aluminum, or tapping Feruchemical gold? *laughter* [clarification on the question] Brandon Sanderson They would both work pretty well. I would say if you burned aluminum, that would kind of have the effect that you are wanting it to have, which is the effect-- negating and sucking out, so that's probably safer. But the gold would work, too. Kurkistan So would it be fair to describe withering as a kind of cancerous Forging- Brandon Sanderson Sure. Kurkistan That just kind of slowly takes over your soul? Brandon Sanderson Sure. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Spoiler Douglas What benefit does an aluminum savant get? Yes, I know this would normally never happen because aluminum burns itself up. Suppose a mad scientist with a willing Mistborn test subject shoved a feeding tube down the Mistborn's throat to pump in a continuous stream of aluminum, replenishing it steadily so there's always a new unburned supply. Add another tube to pump out excess water if necessary. What would he discover? Alternatively, what would Sazed with his Shard-granted knowledge know? Brandon Sanderson Ha, that IS a little silly of a method. However, on the extreme end of aluminum, I have in the notes the possibility of cleansing the spirit of unwanted effects of other Investitures. You'd get really good at this, and maybe even be able to cleanse the body of other impurities. 17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012) 44 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I don't know if this is the same as leeching as it is not draining the power with no effect and instead burning and making all usable metals disappear. Leeching also burns of metals of your target. They're similar. Spoiler Questioner Aluminum, when you burn aluminum, does it actually destroy the metals or just take away their power? Brandon Sanderson It destroys the metals. Questioner Same with chromium? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Questioner So it actually gets rid of the metals? Brandon Sanderson It actually trans-- It does a-- matter, energy, investiture are the same things in the cosmere. You have some sort of transfer happening relating to those things. Questioner The question sort of relates to metal poisoning-- Brandon Sanderson Yeah, you would not get metal poisoning after that. Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) And leeching makes a Shardbearer unable to summon his Shardblade: Spoiler Questioner (paraphrased) If a Leecher was holding a Shardbearer and burning [chromium], would the Shardbearer be able to summon their Blade? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No. Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017) I think burning aluminum will work the same - when the blade is passing through your body a Shardbearer won't be able to dismiss it, or change it shape - it will lock it in the state it was when entering your body. 56 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: If this process kills a spren would the radiant be left without any surgebinding powers and the ability to use stormlight as well? It won't destroy a spren, but if a Radiant's spren gets killed, he will lose his power and the ability to use Stormlight too. 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Please dismantal this theory quickly. It seems bonkers. It is, you're welcome 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 59 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Wouldn't an aluminum savant be able to completely destroy any shardblade attacks? They are made of pure gold metal and aluminum instantly burns all metals. What would this do to the spren? What would this do to the radiant? Well, it might still not be possible to burn away a Radiant Sprenblade, as the Spren has an Identity of its own to mess with the Savant's ability to burn it, and the Misting would need to have a strong enough Connection to burn Honor's and Cultivation's Godmetal alloy. Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/120/#e1829 Questioner What would happen if an Allomancer burned Awakened metal? Brandon Sanderson Oh boy, we start right with the really hard ones. So, it would be very difficult to do, and other than that it's going to depend on who the Breaths are keyed to with Identity. Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13315 Questioner If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen? Brandon Sanderson This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable. Plus, a Shardblade is extremely Invested- an aluminum Savant would almost certainly have a very hard time burning enough metal in one shot to vaporize a Shardblade. Now, if you could overcome the problems with Identity, Connection, and level of Investiture necessary to destroy said Shardblade... I think you could kill the Spren, similar to how Nightblood works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underwater_Worldhopper Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 34 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: Now, if you could overcome the problems with Identity, Connection, and level of Investiture necessary to destroy said Shardblade... I think you could kill the Spren, similar to how Nightblood works. Whatever it is that Chromium and Aluminium are doing, would it kill the Spren if it was powerful enough? I was under the impression that Chromium/Aluminum convert the metals into Investiture, it would just dismiss the Spren instead of killing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 17 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Whatever it is that Chromium and Aluminium are doing, would it kill the Spren if it was powerful enough? I was under the impression that Chromium/Aluminum convert the metals into Investiture, it would just dismiss the Spren instead of killing it. They affect not only metal but investiture itself, returning it to SR, they can leech other forms of investiture. However in BoM Broadsheet it was said something different, that chromium doesn't get rid of metals but only investiture of metal reserves. Both Marasi and Wax felt their metal reserves disappearing when affected by chromium Primar Cubes. Spoiler However it is worth noting that Brandon still isn't sure how it should work, 2020 WoB: Spoiler Questioner 1 Does aluminum actually make the metals disappear, like, be metabolized? Or does it just cut the Spiritual connection? Brandon Sanderson So... I haven't actually canonized that... I've gone back and forth. For a while, I said it got rid of them. And there may even be... But the more I thought about that, the more it doesn't make much sense. Questioner 1 It doesn't. Especially the way that duralumin works, it doesn't really make sense. Brandon Sanderson And so, I've been kind of pushing the other way. Since I haven't said it in-world, it's not truly canon, but I believe I've answered other fans saying that it burns them all away in a flash, and we might need it to do that, for future things. So, I'm undecided. Questioner 2 It needs to get rid of them, but a path to sever the connection at the same time. Brandon Sanderson One of the big problems is, if it only severs the connection and leaves the metals, than you have heavy metal poisoning from some of the metals. Questioner 1 But if it makes them burn away, that doesn't work the same way as duralumin. Duralumin only burns the ones you're burning. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. I kinda have to err back on the side of "it gets rid of them," just we don't have to deal with metal poisoning, but I've kind of been wavering a little bit, thinking, "Is there a better way to explain this." LTUE 2020 (Feb. 15, 2020) Can chromium or aluminum kill a spren? Based on one of the WoB in my previous post (this: "the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard.") and these WoBs below, a powerful leeching would be like Nightblood - he is capable of killing a spren (not sure if in a Shardblade form, likely he would chip it off). I'm fairly certain a Leecher would need to be either fueled by Mist or the Well itself to be able to access such power. It would be comparable with steelpushing a Shardblade, which requires a lot of power. Theoretically a Leecher could kill a spren, practically not right now. I see it impossible for chromium/aluminum to dismiss a Shardplate, it has too much investiture to affect it significantly like that. Spoiler Questioner I am curious about, if sprens are pieces of the god power, and investiture is the power of the god, then can Nightblood consume spren? Brandon Sanderson He could theoretically -- yeah, he could totally consume spren. There's not even any “theoretically” to that. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Spoiler Trae Cooper (paraphrased) Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question. 1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture. 2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul. This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm. 3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades. Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate. DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012) Spoiler Questioner Would Allomancy affect Shardplate or Shardblades? Brandon Sanderson It cannot affected Shardblades. Well, "cannot" is a strong word. Things with innate investiture are much more difficult to affect with any of the magics at all. Which is why it's very hard, for instance-- Szeth is not able to bind people, or Lash people wearing Shardplate to the ceiling. In the same Allomancy would not be able to Push on it without some help. Duralumin and a really strong [Steel]Push could probably do it. Questioner I was just wondering if it's actually metal. Brandon Sanderson Oh yes. It is metal-ish... it is metal enough for Allomancy to work on it. Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Whatever it is that Chromium and Aluminium are doing, would it kill the Spren if it was powerful enough? I was under the impression that Chromium/Aluminum convert the metals into Investiture, it would just dismiss the Spren instead of killing it. Ah shoot, that's right; Chromium affects only Kinetic Investiture (and likely A-aluminum works similarly), hence the reason Metalminds not being tapped and Hemalurgic spikes are invulnerable to such things. Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/375/#e12080 Questioner If someone had a Hemalurgic spike and they burned aluminum, would the negation of-- am I going to get RAFO'd? Brandon Sanderson You're asking if it would destroy the Hemalurgic power? Burning aluminum at that point would not destroy the Hemalurgic power. It would pull the Investiture through whatever you're doing. It would blank your power, but it wouldn't destroy you being an Allomancer with the spike... I actually considered this in building it and that would be too easy a way to remove Inquisitors, particularly if there were dissension between them. So, yeah, I don't think that it's possible for an Aluminum Misting to do that kind of thing at all, since the Shardblade would be in a state of Static Investiture. Maybe a Savant could overcome this, but I don't know, it feels kind of like we're picking at straws to make the idea work. Edited May 31, 2023 by Trusk'our 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: So I am going off of a few WoBs that I have found and would love to hear any conflicting thoughts you all have. Hide contents Matthew Grady Does a metal need to be swallowed to be burned? Or can it be injected or snorted? Brandon Sanderson It could be either of those two things. Yes. Basically, metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. There's nothing magical about the stomach, even though it works the best when we talk about it. It's just more intermixing the nature of the metal with your soul in the cosmere, your Spiritual entity, is what gives them that ability. YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020) Reveal hidden contents Xais56 Brandon has said that everyone ought to be able to burn Atium, like they can all burn Lerasium, and the fact that they can't was an oversight on his part that he would've done different in hindsight. Maybe now he's had an in-universe reason to re-write the laws of allomancy it's back to his intended concept; Mistborn burn all 16 base metals, mistings burn one base metal, non-allomancers can only burn godmetal. Peter Ahlstrom My explanation for this is that Preservation somehow caused all naturally occurring atium to form as an alloy of atium and electrum. The atium Mistings were actually electrum Mistings. Kingsdaughter613 Primary question: Peter recently said something about atium in Era 1 actually being an atium-electrum alloy. Is this accurate? Brandon Sanderson This is accurate, yes. With this knowledge coupled with the fact that aluminum is going to become cheap and highly available on Scadrial in the near future... Wouldn't an aluminum savant be able to completely destroy any shardblade attacks? They are made of pure gold metal and aluminum instantly burns all metals. What would this do to the spren? What would this do to the radiant? The aluminum mistings soul wouldn't be severed because the cutting edge would vanish and be burnt away as soon as it passes the first layers of skin. I don't know if this is the same as leeching as it is not draining the power with no effect and instead burning and making all usable metals disappear. If this process kills a spren would the radiant be left without any surgebinding powers and the ability to use stormlight as well? Please dismantal this theory quickly. It seems bonkers. You're vastly underestimating the power level of Spren and Shardblades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 41 minutes ago, Leuthie said: You're vastly underestimating the power level of Spren and Shardblades. I think we're on the same page, but could you elaborate just in case? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underwater_Worldhopper Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, alder24 said: They affect not only metal but investiture itself, returning it to SR, they can leech other forms of investiture. However in BoM Broadsheet it was said something different, that chromium doesn't get rid of metals but only investiture of metal reserves. Both Marasi and Wax felt their metal reserves disappearing when affected by chromium Primar Cubes. That one really confused me, I was going to make a post about it literally two seconds before you posted that. 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Can chromium or aluminum kill a spren? Based on one of the WoB in my previous post (this: "the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard.") and these WoBs below, a powerful leeching would be like Nightblood - he is capable of killing a spren (not sure if in a Shardblade form, likely he would chip it off). I'm fairly certain a Leecher would need to be either fueled by Mist or the Well itself to be able to access such power. It would be comparable with steelpushing a Shardblade, which requires a lot of power. Theoretically a Leecher could kill a spren, practically not right now. I see it impossible for chromium/aluminum to dismiss a Shardplate, it has too much investiture to affect it significantly like that. Oh, dear. What on earth are those dang Gnats and Leechers doing?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Trusk'our said: So, yeah, I don't think that it's possible for an Aluminum Misting to do that kind of thing at all, since the Shardblade would be in a state of Static Investiture. Maybe a Savant could overcome this, but I don't know, it feels kind of like we're picking at straws to make the idea work. I don't think Savantism would really help, it is not always (or even often) increase in power, and Shardblades are far too Invested to be affected to any dangerous degree. Per WoB Aluminum savant can clean their soul of impurities and such, but that sounds more like 'poison' healing, not straight up negating any damage to soul. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 minute ago, therunner said: I don't think Savantism would really help, it is not always (or even often) increase in power, and Shardblades are far too Invested to be affected to any dangerous degree. Per WoB Aluminum savant can clean their soul of impurities and such, but that sounds more like 'poison' healing, not straight up negating any damage to soul. I agree on the level of Investiture in Shardblades being too high for an unenhanced Misting being able to meaningfully affect, but I think it might (with some loopholes) be possible to "attack" a Shardblade entering the body of the Misting (though it would do nothing to heal or save the Misting in the process). That's a big "might" though . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: I agree on the level of Investiture in Shardblades being too high for an unenhanced Misting being able to meaningfully affect, but I think it might (with some loopholes) be possible to "attack" a Shardblade entering the body of the Misting (though it would do nothing to heal or save the Misting in the process). That's a big "might" though . Oh it is possible...if you wield Well of Ascension or something like that I mean, Larkin are not enough to do damage to Shardblade, Nightblood only chips Honorblade (and Honorblade and Shardblade block each other with no issue, so Honorblades don't seem to be more powerful in this way) despite vaporizing Thunderclast. Shardblades are completely different power level than anything appearing on Scadrial, Misting 'attacking' Shardblade would be like toddler attacking tiger. Edited May 31, 2023 by therunner 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Trusk'our said: Ah shoot, that's right; Chromium affects only Kinetic Investiture (and likely A-aluminum works similarly), hence the reason Metalminds not being tapped and Hemalurgic spikes are invulnerable to such things. So, yeah, I don't think that it's possible for an Aluminum Misting to do that kind of thing at all, since the Shardblade would be in a state of Static Investiture. Actually, now I remember that Shardblades "mist" when they attack a living thing, and we know that when they are summoned they form as mist and are considered Kinetic Investiture. Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/120/#e7413 Rasarr Could a Seeker detect a Shardbearer? For example, could Vin detect Adolin's Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson That detects Kinetic Investiture, Investiture that's being used actively, so in the summoning process, you'd probably get a blip on that, but not just looking at someone and seeing it. So... maybe it is possible to affect them when entering your body as an aluminum Misting, though the amount of Investiture you'd need to even disrupt them- much less destroying them- would be high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: Actually, now I remember that Shardblades "mist" when they attack a living thing, and we know that when they are summoned they form as mist and are considered Kinetic Investiture. So... maybe it is possible to affect them when entering your body as an aluminum Misting, though the amount of Investiture you'd need to even disrupt them- much less destroying them- would be high. That's a good point. With very powerful Allomancy you might be able to block a Shardblade cut through your soul, as it wouldn't be able to turn into that "kinetic mist" (if that's kinetic), preventing you from taking any damage to the soul. But physical cutting damage might still cut you conventionally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Trusk'our said: I think we're on the same page, but could you elaborate just in case? There's too much Investiture in a Shardblade for a Mistborn to affect it in any meaningful way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 8 hours ago, Trusk'our said: Actually, now I remember that Shardblades "mist" when they attack a living thing, and we know that when they are summoned they form as mist and are considered Kinetic Investiture. 7 hours ago, alder24 said: That's a good point. With very powerful Allomancy you might be able to block a Shardblade cut through your soul, as it wouldn't be able to turn into that "kinetic mist" (if that's kinetic), preventing you from taking any damage to the soul. But physical cutting damage might still cut you conventionally. Wouldn't that just mean Shardblade cuts you as if you were non-living object? Because as far as I know, it does not 'mist' when cutting non-living objects. Also, even if the supernatural aspect would be blocked, it is still quite large, incredibly sharp, unbreakable/unbendable sword, so you would still get cut up, just differently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a Faceless Immortal Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 I think the problem here is that aluminium burns instantaneously, whereas a Shardblade strike happens over a prolonged period of time. This suggests to me that the only viable way an Aluminium Gnat could meaningfully affect a strike would be if they could dismiss the blade or otherwise break the spren's form in a way that cannot be immediately resumed; without being able to do something like this they either A. do nothing to the blade, and have their soul sliced, or B. manage to prevent the blade slicing their soul and instead get slammed with a 7 (Rosharan) foot long hunk of sharp metal. Neither of these outcomes are particularly good for the Gnat... I have no proof that this is actually the case, but I think this aligns with what other people here have said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 4 hours ago, therunner said: Wouldn't that just mean Shardblade cuts you as if you were non-living object? Because as far as I know, it does not 'mist' when cutting non-living objects. Also, even if the supernatural aspect would be blocked, it is still quite large, incredibly sharp, unbreakable/unbendable sword, so you would still get cut up, just differently. Generally yes. If a Misting was invested enough, he might block a Shardblade just with his soul - but that's not the case. He will get cut by a physical edge of a Shardblade. What I'm saying with "If a Misting is invested enough, he might block a Shardblade just with his soul" is that Breaths can stop a Shardblade, an Awakened piece of cloth with enough Breaths will block it. Potentially it might mean that Susebron is invested enough to fully block a Shardblade. Will this be the case? No idea, that's for Brandon to decide, but there are clues it can work like that. But for our very powerful Misting (at least Lerasium level or with Dor) it wouldn't be the case. He isn't that invested even when burning metal. He will "block" spiritual Shardblade, but be cut by its physical edge. Not ideal, but at least your soul is in one piece. Spoiler Questioner If something is heavily Invested, it's harder for a Shardblade to go through it, right? Brandon Sanderson Kind of. It depends on the kind of Investiture and things that are going on. But yes. If you want to block a Shardblade... Like a metalmind would be a good thing to use to fight a Shardblade. Questioner A person with a lot of Breath, like the God-King, would you be able to chop them with a Shardblade or no? Brandon Sanderson It's going to get very tricky on that, so I'll RAFO that for now. Let's just say that there are things. For instance, a Shardblade excising someone who's been Hemalurgically spiked is a theoretical possibility. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) Spoiler Questioner How would an Awakened with Breath piece of cloth react if it got hit with a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson A Shardblade would probably be able to cut it, but it depends on how much Breath we're talking about. Questioner So if it had enough, it might be able to block it Brandon Sanderson Yes. FanX 2018 (Sept. 7, 2018) Spoiler Questioner Shardblades cut organic and inorganic matter differently. How would they interact with an animated construct like an Awakened straw man? What about a Lifeless? Brandon Sanderson So I walk kind of a fine line here. Something that's animated as a construct, like an Awakened straw man, is likely going to block the Shardblade to some extent, as powerful Investiture would. A Lifeless is probably just gonna act like it was a living being. San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020) 11 minutes ago, a Faceless Immortal said: I think the problem here is that aluminium burns instantaneously, whereas a Shardblade strike happens over a prolonged period of time. This suggests to me that the only viable way an Aluminium Gnat could meaningfully affect a strike would be if they could dismiss the blade or otherwise break the spren's form in a way that cannot be immediately resumed; without being able to do something like this they either A. do nothing to the blade, and have their soul sliced, or B. manage to prevent the blade slicing their soul and instead get slammed with a 7 (Rosharan) foot long hunk of sharp metal. Neither of these outcomes are particularly good for the Gnat... I have no proof that this is actually the case, but I think this aligns with what other people here have said. We have only one example of aluminum being burned and it was like "Vin burned it and instantly all other metal reserves vanished" - I don't have an English version but in my it was said reserves other than aluminum vanished, nothing was said more about aluminum. We know aluminum and chromium work alike, and we know chromium burns for an extended period of time. I think aluminum burns like other metals, but because metal flakes are such low amount of investiture, aluminum burns them almost immediately, but with something like Stormlight in your body it will take more time to burn it, just like chromium works (chromium was also said to leech almost instantly in BoM/TLM but we know from WoB that it takes time if there is a lot to burn, metals in stomach are just too little for that time to be needed). However chromium does burn quickly, aluminum would likely burn quickly as well. Spoiler Kaymyth I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings. Brandon Sanderson What it boils down to is this: 1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off. 2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds. 3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal. ConQuest 46 (May 22, 2015) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 14 hours ago, Leuthie said: There's too much Investiture in a Shardblade for a Mistborn to affect it in any meaningful way. Agreed. Unless the Mistborn pulls a Wayne and has an entire stomach full of aluminum burned with duralumin at exactly the right moment (which would likely take some extremely Fortuitous circumstances), they won't have anywhere near enough Investiture to meaningfully effect the Shardblade. Even then it may not be enough without something like Unkeyed Dor, harnessing the Mists, Awakened Hemalurgic spikes, Nicrosil Compounding, or Lerasium-level Allomancy. 15 hours ago, alder24 said: That's a good point. With very powerful Allomancy you might be able to block a Shardblade cut through your soul, as it wouldn't be able to turn into that "kinetic mist" (if that's kinetic), preventing you from taking any damage to the soul. But physical cutting damage might still cut you conventionally. Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the Savant destroying the Spren, since the Spren's Investiture is getting ripped away by the burned aluminum. Blocking spiritual attacks may work as well, but physical cutting should still work, as you mentioned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 56 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the Savant destroying the Spren, since the Spren's Investiture is getting ripped away by the burned aluminum. Blocking spiritual attacks may work as well, but physical cutting should still work, as you mentioned. Destroying the Spren? I don't think that would work even with the power of the Well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Destroying the Spren? I don't think that would work even with the power of the Well. Why couldn't it? Not trying to bash or anything. I'm genuinely curious why you think that- the Well has the power to literally move planets. Wouldn't destroying a Spren be a piece of cake in comparison? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: Why couldn't it? Not trying to bash or anything. I'm genuinely curious why you think that- the Well has the power to literally move planets. Wouldn't destroying a Spren be a piece of cake in comparison? I don't really have an argument for that. I just don't think that's possible. I think limiting ways of killing sprens to just Nightblood, Anti-Investiture, Hemalurgic spikes or possibly silver is a good thing. Mostly because of this WoB (but keep in mind aluminum Allomantically works differently than Hemalurgically): Spoiler Ace Heat Would it be possible to use an aluminum spike to permanently kill a spren? Brandon Sanderson No, that's not gonna work. Silver, on the other hand, there's some possibility. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: Why couldn't it? Not trying to bash or anything. I'm genuinely curious why you think that- the Well has the power to literally move planets. Wouldn't destroying a Spren be a piece of cake in comparison? Well for starters the well can't even kill humans. Spoiler Tyran Amiros What happened to Kwaan? I was half expecting to see him amongst the kandra First Generation. Brandon Sanderson Kwaan went into hiding, and he was eventually discovered and executed by Rashek. He wasn't among the First Generation, though he would have been if he hadn't turned against Rashek. Rashek kept the plate, however, just as he kept Alendi's logbook. Partially because even then, Rashek was going a little mad, but partially because of the reminders about his old life they contained. Vegasdev I'm assuming you meant Alendi hunted him down because he turned against Alendi. Or did Kwaan also turn against Rashek? Brandon Sanderson No, I meant that he turned against Rashek. Remember, the members of the First Generation were offered immortality in exchange for their Hemalurgy. They had to make this choice for all of the world's Feruchemists. Because his uncle had been the one who gave Rashek the chance to become the Lord Ruler in the first place, Rashek blessed him and included him in the decision. (Speaking directly into his mind along with the others during Rashek's moment of ascension.) Kwaan was the only one who turned down this offer, calling it a betrayal of who they were as a people. Rashek could have just made him one anyway, but in a moment of anger, he tried to destroy Kwaan—which he couldn't do, not with Preservation's power. As the other Feruchemists changed, Kwaan remained the same. Rashek eventually hunted him down and killed him. Footnote: Brandon likely means Feruchemy, here in place of Hemalurgy. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e5764 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Frustration said: Well for starters the well can't even kill humans. Hide contents Tyran Amiros What happened to Kwaan? I was half expecting to see him amongst the kandra First Generation. Brandon Sanderson Kwaan went into hiding, and he was eventually discovered and executed by Rashek. He wasn't among the First Generation, though he would have been if he hadn't turned against Rashek. Rashek kept the plate, however, just as he kept Alendi's logbook. Partially because even then, Rashek was going a little mad, but partially because of the reminders about his old life they contained. Vegasdev I'm assuming you meant Alendi hunted him down because he turned against Alendi. Or did Kwaan also turn against Rashek? Brandon Sanderson No, I meant that he turned against Rashek. Remember, the members of the First Generation were offered immortality in exchange for their Hemalurgy. They had to make this choice for all of the world's Feruchemists. Because his uncle had been the one who gave Rashek the chance to become the Lord Ruler in the first place, Rashek blessed him and included him in the decision. (Speaking directly into his mind along with the others during Rashek's moment of ascension.) Kwaan was the only one who turned down this offer, calling it a betrayal of who they were as a people. Rashek could have just made him one anyway, but in a moment of anger, he tried to destroy Kwaan—which he couldn't do, not with Preservation's power. As the other Feruchemists changed, Kwaan remained the same. Rashek eventually hunted him down and killed him. Footnote: Brandon likely means Feruchemy, here in place of Hemalurgy. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e5764 Hmmm. Good point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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