Theory: Dalinar & Nightblood (spoilers)

[TheBrian]

Hello everyone, I am a longtime lurker, first time poster, and I have a theory that I have not seen on here before.  I don't have a ton of evidence to back it up, this is mostly based on the rule of cool.

 

[spoiler]

My theory is that Dalinar will eventually become in possession of Nightblood.  We know that after bonding the Stormfather, Dalinar is a Knight without a shardblade.  Not only does the Stormfather refuse to come when called, but the bond makes it impossible for Dalinar to effectively use a conventional (dead) shardblade.  However, there is conveniently a magic sword floating around Roshar.  Sure, it is in the possession of the world's deadliest assassin, who just took a job with the world's deadliest vigilante, but there are 8 books remaining and a lot could happen.

 

I know this is pure speculation, but just picture Dalinar facing down Voidbringers with Nightblood in his hand.  The Blackthorn deserves to have the baddest blade in the Cosmere.  And Nightblood could finally get down to business and destroy some real evil.

[/spoiler]

Edited June 23, 2014 by TheBrian

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

It could make for a cool plotline. Nightblood's got some pretty vague ideas on morality, and Dalinar is a letter-of-the-law type guy. Could be some pretty interesting conflict there. Also wonder what Stormfather would consider Nightblood to be. He said no Shardblades, and Nightblood technically is. 

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

He said no Shardblades, and Nightblood technically is. 

Nightblood is closer to an Honorblade than he is to a Shardblade. Kaladin was able to carry Jezrien's blade with on problems. Other than the nausea that he would undoubtedly feel, there should be no problems. 

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

And actually, the Stormfather did not say NO shardeblades, he said that he would not be a blade for Dalinar.

 

Secretly, I'm rooting for the Stormfather to become a GIANT (Weapon/shield whatever Dalinar needs) SWORD OF DOOM for Dalinar, but the alternative could be Nightblood.

 

Destroying odium would take a lot of stormlight, but may qualify for Nightblood's "Destroy Evil" mandate.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Horatio Spifflewicket

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

And actually, the Stormfather did not say NO shardeblades, he said that he would not be a blade for Dalinar.

Secretly, I'm rooting for the Stormfather to become a GIANT (Weapon/shield whatever Dalinar needs) SWORD OF DOOM for Dalinar, but the alternative could be Nightblood.

Destroying odium would take a lot of stormlight, but may qualify for Nightblood's "Destroy Evil" mandate.

Well, Dalinar definitely doesn't want a regular Shardblade; as strong as he is, the screaming would be too much for even him, I'm betting.

And honestly, the Stormfather is too much of a jerk for him to be awesome enough to become a Sword of Doom. Not gonna happen. If would be cool, though.

I agree with EMTrevor that Nightblood would he fine for Dalinar. I think the real issue with Shardblades is the screaming, and though Nightblood is definitely more like an Honorblade, not being made of a dead spren and having an Intent. I have a mini theory about that, that Honorblades have their own Intents.

[Terisen he/him]

And actually, the Stormfather did not say NO shardeblades, he said that he would not be a blade for Dalinar.

 

Secretly, I'm rooting for the Stormfather to become a GIANT (Weapon/shield whatever Dalinar needs) SWORD OF DOOM for Dalinar, but the alternative could be Nightblood.

 

Destroying odium would take a lot of stormlight, but may qualify for Nightblood's "Destroy Evil" mandate.

 

At first, I was thinking the same thing about the Stormfather not being a sword but something more.

I WILL NOT BE A SIMPLE SWORD TO YOU, the Stormfather warned.

 

OK, so far, so good. We have a loophole.  He said "simple sword".

 

I WILL NOT COME AS YOU CALL

 

Still good.  He can come as he pleases.  Still open to a super-mega-awesome shard weapon.

 

YOU WILL BE A RADIANT WITH NO SHARDS

 

Crud.  That slams the door shut, it seems.

 

Bring on Nightblood for Dalinar!  Let the Stormfather and Nightblood argue inside Dalinar's head.  Though that just might drive him insane.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Terisen

[maxal she/her]

I would hate to see Dalinar with Nightblood. He has forsook his violent ways a long time ago. It would be wrong for him to carry a weapon urging him to kill some more. Besides, I have always considered that, by taking the role of the Bondsmith, Dalinar accepted not being the one to fight the battles anymore. He came to that conclusion by himself at the end of WoK where he gave Adolin command of the Plateau runs.

 

I think we will not see much of Dalinar fighting in the upcoming books.

[TheBrian]

GreyPilgrim, I like the idea of honorblades having Intents, but the one Szeth carried (which the power of Windrunners is modeled after) let him murder people instead of protecting them, so their Intents don't match up with the KR Ideals.  I hope to read your theory on this soon.

 

maxal, I agree that it would be backsliding if Dalinar went to war again.  But if he was using Nightblood against charging Thunderclasts to protect a city, I think that would be in line with where he is as a character.

 

And I never thought of the Stormfather becoming a gigantic shardblade...  Honestly, I think that might be cooler than using Nightblood.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Nightblood is closer to an Honorblade than he is to a Shardblade. Kaladin was able to carry Jezrien's blade with on problems. Other than the nausea that he would undoubtedly feel, there should be no problems. 

 

Well, Dalinar definitely doesn't want a regular Shardblade; as strong as he is, the screaming would be too much for even him, I'm betting.

And honestly, the Stormfather is too much of a jerk for him to be awesome enough to become a Sword of Doom. Not gonna happen. If would be cool, though.

I agree with EMTrevor that Nightblood would he fine for Dalinar. I think the real issue with Shardblades is the screaming, and though Nightblood is definitely more like an Honorblade, not being made of a dead spren and having an Intent. I have a mini theory about that, that Honorblades have their own Intents.

Yeah, between the screaming and Stormfather saying "You will be a Radiant with no Shards", I think we can assume there won't be another blade coming his way. Unless an Honorblade is outside of that.... 

And I also think Dalinar could possibly carry Nightblood, but what I meant was that technically Nightblood is a Shardblade - though not by the typical definition of Roshar, I think. Brandon said something about this in an interview (calling Nightblood a Shardblade), but I'd have to go find the quote. That's what I was referring to, though I don't think it would be enough to limit the Dalinar/Nightblood combo. 

EDIT:

 

INTERVIEW: Mar 6th, 2014

WoR Signing Report - Bartbug (Verbatim)

QUESTION

If Nightblood were on Roshar would he be a Shardblade?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, they are exactly the same thing. He is a Shardblade that is twisted and is a lot more powerful than normal.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Bloodfalcon

[Rybal]

It is very possible that he'll end up with an Honorblade, since they technically aren't Shardblades.

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

Well, the weird thing with Dalinar getting an Honorblade would be the double Radiant powers, unless of course he gets Ishar's Honorblade. While it would be cool to see how the magic system interaction works, I don't think we will see Dalinar with any type of Shardblade (excluding, possibly, Nightblood). It is just inconsistent with Dalinar's character at this point. He gave up a Shardblade once, and I would like to see him maintain that decision and be awesome without the help of an awesome sword.

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

I was thinking more that the stormfather said "YOU WILL BE A RADIANT WITH NO SHARDS" but would see some threat as SO compelling (some sort of spren-eater, maybe?) that he would change his mind and join with Dalinar.

 

This assumes, of course, that spren even CAN change their minds, and that the Stormfather in particular is able to deviate from his intent.

(which is an argument for another thread).

[TheWarriorPoet he/him]

I beleive that there is an supposed difference between HONORBLADE and SHARDBLADE. Dalinar gave up his shard when he freed kal and others in first book and bonded a HONORBLADE instead, because it was the blade of Herald of war. I still don't know why it shouted when dalinar summoned it because it not of dead sprens. And at the end it did make sense that dalinar keeps taln's blade because just like Herald of war he is high prince of war

[Moogle]

I beleive that there is an supposed difference between HONORBLADE and SHARDBLADE. Dalinar gave up his shard when he freed kal and others in first book and bonded a HONORBLADE instead, because it was the blade of Herald of war. I still don't know why it shouted when dalinar summoned it because it not of dead sprens. And at the end it did make sense that dalinar keeps taln's blade because just like Herald of war he is high prince of war

 

The descriptions of the Blades dont match.

 

From TWoK:

 

The Blade reflected torchlight; it was long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike.

“Welcome, lost one,” Wit whispered.

 

From WoR:

 

White mist coalesced in Dalinar’s fingers, and a Shardblade appeared, tip to Amaram’s throat. Wider than most, it was almost cleaverlike in appearance.

 

Shardblades scream when touched because they're dead spren. Honorblades are not spren, so they shouldn't scream. Dalinar can't have bonded an Honorblade.

[jefftucker0525]

While Nightblood might be a Shardblade on Roshar, I don't think a KR holding/wielding him would hear screams. The screams are cause by the dead spren, but with Nightblood, there is no dead spren; he is fully alive and aware, which makes me wonder if his consciousness counts as a spren or if his existence on Roshar will create aNightblood spren, that would be cool as all hell, but anyways, I don't think Nightblood would cause screams for a KR. 

[SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him]

What I want to know is, will having a Bond with a Radiant give Nightblood a boost to his intelligence?

[Quiver he/him]

What I want to know is, will having a Bond with a Radiant give Nightblood a boost to his intelligence?

 

Huh.

 

I guess it might depend on whether or not it's even possible for Nightblood to form a "bond" with someone. After all, he doesn't dissipate into mist or anything like a normal shardblade, and he needs to be carried around like a normal sword... 

 

If he can be bonded like a spren, it doesn't sound impossible. His childish-ness might even strike people who haven't read Warbreaker as being like Syl was at the begining, in which case an intelligence booster would kind of be the logical way to go...

 

Though, if he does gain the ability to appear and vanish like a normal Shardblade, would he then become some sort of a spren? If not... I would assume bonding yourself with something that is animate and speaking might backfire somehow.

[Prince of Ravens he/him]

Well spren are pieces of God, Gods are Shard Holders of Adonalsium, right? In Roshan that is Honor. So Nightblood as awakened object is made by forgot how many breaths. Breath comes from Nalthis world which basically makes it a spren of Endowment, right? Am I making any sense here?

[hoser he/him]

I don't know.  I think it depends on how you define spren.

Well spren are pieces of God, Gods are Shard Holders of Adonalsium, right? In Roshan that is Honor. So Nightblood as awakened object is made by forgot how many breaths. Breath comes from Nalthis world which basically makes it a spren of Endowment, right? Am I making any sense here?

The argument I see is:

Spren are investure. 

Some spren are also magical objects. 

Nightblood is a magical object. 

So Nightblood is a spren. 

 

But not all magical objects are spren. 

Some objects, like the spanreeds, are a combination of object and spren. 

It seems to me that Nightblood falls in this category.  Nightblood's investiture may be a spren, but there is a real physical object involved, so Nightblood is not just a spren. 

[Lumen]

I guess it might depend on whether or not it's even possible for Nightblood to form a "bond" with someone. After all, he doesn't dissipate into mist or anything like a normal shardblade, and he needs to be carried around like a normal sword... 

 

Nightblood does bond with people (more than one person).

 

 

 

QUESTION

How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Nightblood does bond with people (more than one person).

 

Thanks for quoting that. Now that I see it, I don't really understand it. Can Nightblood bond with people instantly with what is basically an On/Off switch? Because he's popped into people's heads without more than a second of contact. I don't think the bonding is the same type unless being a heavyweight in the magical object world gives him that extra ability. I gotta go back and read some Nightblood encounters. 

[jefftucker0525]

Well WoB said that Nightblood would be a Shardblade on Roshar just much stronger, maybe strength has to do with how fast he can Bond. Plus Nightblood doesn't have to wait for all the Oaths to be said because they don't apply to his Bond so it can be as strong as an actual KR's bond to their Spren as opposed to the usual type of Bond a regular person has with a Shardblade.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him]

He may have differing levels of Bond.

 

To clarify my previous question will being Bonded get rid of his mind block that he has? Making it so that he understands the concept of time.

[TheWarriorPoet he/him]

The descriptions of the Blades dont match.

From TWoK:

From WoR:

Shardblades scream when touched because they're dead spren. Honorblades are not spren, so they shouldn't scream. Dalinar can't have bonded an Honorblade.

AAah ok, I hadn't re read but I believe it was the same blade which was brought with Taln and I thought Taln was carrying his own honor blade and not any ordinary shard.

Also since Honorblades are not dead sprens I think they have the ability to change shape, just like syl can.

[ShardWolf he/him]

I have a slightly different idea, what if the Stormfather had it right and Dalinar really gets no shards. As said before, the Stormfather won't be "a simple sword", which makes sense because he is the Stormfather. Sure, it might mean the SF becomes a megaweapon on occasion but we also have another hint, I think. People kept saying Dalinar was essentially the king but he kept rejecting that idea. I think leading the armies and dealing with the highprinces gave him an excuse to not lead. Now that he is tasked with gathering the radiants, what if the SF thrusts him into more of a leadership role where he can't actively fight? Making him more of a figure head than a warrior but when most needed can "bring the thunder" as it were. Just a thought.