F-Duralumin: Does it Store Connection or the Ability to Form Connections?

[Trusk'our]

This is something I've thought I had understood several times already, but once again I'm considering my past assumptions.

Okay, we know from the Ars. Arcanum that a Connector Ferring can form positive relationships more quickly with someone else by tapping F-duralumin (or reduce others' awareness of them by storing). I once took this to mean that F-duralumin had to store the ability to form Connections naturally, not Connection itself, since those friendships are formed and should presumably remain.

However, we see in BoM that when you tap Blank Connection from a medallion to Connect to a different land and understand the language, the Connection only lasts as long as you tap it- it isn't a permanent formation of Connection, it's a temporary boost to a specific type of Connection, similar to how F-pewter only boosts your muscle mass as long as you tap it.

So, I'm now thinking that F-duralumin does actually store Connections that already existed in the Feruchemist.

Why is it that Allik can tap Connection to the Basin, allowing him to communicate with Marasi and the gang in BoM even though he doesn't have that Connection naturally (and neither do any of the Malwish who could have made the medallion)? It's Blank Connection (to land), which reaches out to the nearest location, in this case the Elendel Basin.

Quote

He made a gesture, like a hand drawn across his face, that she thought indicated a smile. "Clever, but it won't work on you."

"Why?"

"Because we're in your lands," he said. "The visitor always has to wear the medallion. It's filled with Connection, yah? Blank Connection, to no place. But Connection can't just be connected to nothing, so when you tap it, it reaches out and connects you to the place where you are. Makes your soul think you were raised in this place instead, so your language changes." -BoM, page 338.

As for friendships that get formed under the effect of F-duralumin? Well, technically we didn't get confirmation on them staying formed, just that they can be formed more quickly (that was a presumption I'm a bit embarrassed to have made, as it really hasn't been confirmed).

If the friendships do stay, it likely would be like with Emotional Allomancy- the memories of the feelings made while under the effects of the Investiture stay, which continue to have effects on the behavior of those effected, even though the external effect has ceased.

And as for the problem with Kelsier? He's trying to overcome his Connection limitation that binds him to Scadrial so that he can explore the wider Cosmere, and he's had over three-hundred years to obtain and experiment with the power. However, as we've seen in TLM, he can't use Hemalurgy to grant himself powers (medallions are dubious as well- probably doesn't work either based on his dialog, though that hasn't been confirmed yet). It doesn't matter if F-duralumin could be used to store his Connection to Scadrial enough to let him run free because he can't even use the power in the first place!

In any case, I think that F-duralumin does in fact store Connection- I just overthought the problem a LOT. If anybody has any other information to challenge this, please let me know so that I don't get the incorrect impression again (and of course, as usual, I'd enjoy a good conversation/debate ).

[Quantus]

28 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

This is something I've thought I had understood several times already, but once again I'm considering my past assumptions.

Okay, we know from the Ars. Arcanum that a Connector Ferring can form positive relationships more quickly with someone else by tapping F-duralumin (or reduce others' awareness of them by storing). I once took this to mean that F-duralumin had to store the ability to form Connections naturally, not Connection itself, since those friendships are formed and should presumably remain.

However, we see in BoM that when you tap Blank Connection from a medallion to Connect to a different land and understand the language, the Connection only lasts as long as you tap it- it isn't a permanent formation of Connection, it's a temporary boost to a specific type of Connection, similar to how F-pewter only boosts your muscle mass as long as you tap it.

So, I'm now thinking that F-duralumin does actually store Connections that already existed in the Feruchemist.

Why is it that Allik can tap Connection to the Basin, allowing him to communicate with Marasi and the gang in BoM even though he doesn't have that Connection naturally (and neither do any of the Malwish who could have made the medallion)? It's Blank Connection (to land), which reaches out to the nearest location, in this case the Elendel Basin.

As for friendships that get formed under the effect of F-duralumin? Well, technically we didn't get confirmation on them staying formed, just that they can be formed more quickly (that was a presumption I'm a bit embarrassed to have made, as it really hasn't been confirmed).

If the friendships do stay, it likely would be like with Emotional Allomancy- the memories of the feelings made while under the effects of the Investiture stay, which continue to have effects on the behavior of those effected, even though the external effect has ceased.

And as for the problem with Kelsier? He's trying to overcome his Connection limitation that binds him to Scadrial so that he can explore the wider Cosmere, and he's had over three-hundred years to obtain and experiment with the power. However, as we've seen in TLM, he can't use Hemalurgy to grant himself powers (medallions are dubious as well- probably doesn't work either based on his dialog, though that hasn't been confirmed yet). It doesn't matter if F-duralumin could be used to store his Connection to Scadrial enough to let him run free because he can't even use the power in the first place!

In any case, I think that F-duralumin does in fact store Connection- I just overthought the problem a LOT. If anybody has any other information to challenge this, please let me know so that I don't get the incorrect impression again (and of course, as usual, I'd enjoy a good conversation/debate ).

Im honestly a little stuck on the whole "Blank Connection, to no place."  Blanking Identity I get, but Blanking Connection while Storing?  Or does Storing a Connection always Blank the other end, leaving only the general type Slot (ie. Homeland) to latch onto the nearest target?

[alder24]

54 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

So, I'm now thinking that F-duralumin does actually store Connections that already existed in the Feruchemist.

Yes, that's what I always think was happening.

54 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Why is it that Allik can tap Connection to the Basin, allowing him to communicate with Marasi and the gang in BoM even though he doesn't have that Connection naturally (and neither do any of the Malwish who could have made the medallion)? It's Blank Connection (to land), which reaches out to the nearest location, in this case the Elendel Basin.

I've missed the blank connection. Interesting implications. That means that you can store your connection to your friend, which isn't blank, which would make you for the time of storing to be less of a friend, but when you want him to ask for a favor, you can tap it, which temporarily strengthen your friendship with him, but you can use that connection ONLY on him. But if you can make that blank somehow, you can tap it to connect to any person you want to. Very interesting. But what does it mean blank connection?

58 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

As for friendships that get formed under the effect of F-duralumin? Well, technically we didn't get confirmation on them staying formed, just that they can be formed more quickly (that was a presumption I'm a bit embarrassed to have made, as it really hasn't been confirmed).

If the friendships do stay, it likely would be like with Emotional Allomancy- the memories of the feelings made while under the effects of the Investiture stay, which continue to have effects on the behavior of those effected, even though the external effect has ceased.

Yes, I do also believe that the emotions and memory of a person's interactions with you strengthen a newly formed connection, so when you stop tapping, the connection is strong enough for them to consider you more as a friend. But if you don't interact at all with that person, it will fade to almost nothing.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

And as for the problem with Kelsier? He's trying to overcome his Connection limitation that binds him to Scadrial so that he can explore the wider Cosmere, and he's had over three-hundred years to obtain and experiment with the power. However, as we've seen in TLM, he can't use Hemalurgy to grant himself powers (medallions are dubious as well- probably doesn't work either based on his dialog, though that hasn't been confirmed yet). It doesn't matter if F-duralumin could be used to store his Connection to Scadrial enough to let him run free because he can't even use the power in the first place!

Yes, but a blank connection makes his problem a bit easier to solve. He needs a way to store his connection to Scadrial and tap the blank connection, which would allow him to move freely from planet to planet. He doesn't need to tap a blank connection, but that's easier for him to gain language skill and familiarity with the land.

Here is a Rafo WoB about that scene:

Spoiler

kakarotoks

In Bands of Mourning, the Connection medallion is filled with "Blank Connection" and Marasi can't understand Allik when she puts it on, but how do you fill the medallion with Blank Connection in the first place? And could Allik fill the medallion with his own Connection so that when Marasi taps that non-blank Connection, she would understand him ? Or even better, if instead of tapping Connection, Marasi decided to fill the medallion with her own Connection, would she become 'blank' herself then get auto-connected to local land? If yes, then why would Allik need to tap Connection when using the medallion instead of just filling it, becoming blank and understanding her? Or would that make him not connected to anything and unable to understand anyone ?

Brandon Sanderson

All right, so I want to be very careful on this. I typed out my response, but I've sent it to Peter to double-check to get another set of eyes on it. Once we get into mechanisms like this, we're digging into the cosmere-equivalent of computers or complex circuits. I need to make sure another person is double-checking my work.

As a side note for the Sharders reading this, when I dodge these types of questions in physical Q&As, this is kind of the reason. It took me a good thirty minutes to dig into the mechanisms I've written out, re-read to reconfirm to myself I have the methods right, then write it out. And I still have to send it to Peter, just because there are a lot of complex nuances here.

Calderis

just looking to prod you about the "blank connection" answer you mentioned running by Peter last week

Brandon Sanderson

So, I sent my reply to Peter, and he said, "This works, but I don't think you should answer it yet, as it comes too close to revealing things for the next books." So that's a RAFO via Peter, one of the first that has come that way, at least through me.

kakarotoks

Hi, pinging you again as you requested to see if Peter ever replied to you.I've waited patiently for you to finish touring (and maybe this is the wrong time now with christmas right around the corner), but can /u/mistborn or /u/peterahlstrom answer that first question. Seeing as BS already spent 30 minutes writing the answer, it would be a shame if it was lost in the end.

Peter Ahlstrom

I responded to Brandon back in October, and we have an answer, but I'm not sure now is the best time to reveal it publicly. Sometimes Brandon decides to leave the mechanical reveals for the books.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 19, 2018)

 

43 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Im honestly a little stuck on the whole "Blank Connection, to no place."  Blanking Identity I get, but Blanking Connection while Storing?  Or does Storing a Connection always Blank the other end, leaving only the general type Slot (ie. Homeland) to latch onto the nearest target?

Hmm, yes this can also be the case, storing always blanks connection. But that seems too easy to be the case, and too versatile, however it would certainly made making new friends far easier, matching F-duralumin Ars Arcanum description. 

 

 

Now as I think of it, can this be the answer to the question of why medallions grants powers despite people that used them don't have those powers? Can it be that the powers stored in nicrosilmind have blanked connection and they connect to the person that is wearing them granting them powers of Feruchemy and Allomancy? Like blanked connection is reaching out and connect you to the place you are right now, medallions are also reaching out and connect to the person that is wearing them.

Spoiler

Questioner

So nicrosil.  Wax couldn’t use a blank gold metalmind because he’s not a gold ferring, why can he use a blank nicrosil metalmind?

Brandon Sanderson

So this will all come out eventually but the idea is there are certain ways to connect yourself to magic, to hack the magic and make it think you have the Spiritual DNA that you don’t actually have.  And this is one of the ways.

Questioner

So then the people who made this medallion have this thing that a regular nicrosil Ferring couldn’t--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you’re picking up on it. We’ll dig deeper into it as the series progresses.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

56 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Now as I think of it, can this be the answer to the question of why medallions grants powers despite people that used them don't have those powers? Can it be that the powers stored in nicrosilmind have blanked connection and they connect to the person that is wearing them granting them powers of Feruchemy and Allomancy? Like blanked connection is reaching out and connect you to the place you are right now, medallions are also reaching out and connect to the person that is wearing them.

You might be onto something. We know via WoB that F-Duralumin is involved in some way in Medallion creation, this might be it.

[Trusk'our]

39 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Now as I think of it, can this be the answer to the question of why medallions grants powers despite people that used them don't have those powers? Can it be that the powers stored in nicrosilmind have blanked connection and they connect to the person that is wearing them granting them powers of Feruchemy and Allomancy? Like blanked connection is reaching out and connect you to the place you are right now, medallions are also reaching out and connect to the person that is wearing them.

  Hide contents

Questioner

So nicrosil.  Wax couldn’t use a blank gold metalmind because he’s not a gold ferring, why can he use a blank nicrosil metalmind?

Brandon Sanderson

So this will all come out eventually but the idea is there are certain ways to connect yourself to magic, to hack the magic and make it think you have the Spiritual DNA that you don’t actually have.  And this is one of the ways.

Questioner

So then the people who made this medallion have this thing that a regular nicrosil Ferring couldn’t--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you’re picking up on it. We’ll dig deeper into it as the series progresses.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

Well, we do know that F-duralumin is used somehow to create Unsealed Metalminds, and that if someone were to tap Connection while storing in a Metalmind that it would have some effect on the process.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3345

Questioner

Does creating unsealed metalmind involve Feruchemical duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

(hesitating)...Yes. I will write it all out for you eventually. I want to get at least one more book done, then you find out exactly why and how.

Questioner

Because I was pretty confused about the Investiture and Spiritweb...

Brandon Sanderson

Here is the reason I'm kind of hesitant of this, [why not you just RAFO this one right now], but it is not a RAFO, because it is like it's a secret. I want to write it out exactly how it happens, because I have it in my notes in bullet points and it's complicated, right? Cause I want some of the things in the magic system as be as complicated as for instance explaining how a computer works right now. You can do it, but you know...I want the magic to start getting that technical if that makes sense. When you say "involve", right, that's a big word. Why just don't you let me, after lost metal...if I haven't released it, you have permission to come to me and say: "Brandon, you said you would release this, you haven't yet [...]" and I will give to you the bullet point flowchart of how you build the unkeyed metalminds.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/362/#e11150

Calderis

Feruchemical aluminum stores and taps a marker that seems to suffuse all Investiture within a person, removing or strengthening Identity. Does Feruchemical duralumin work similarly? Does tapping connection while storing in a metalmind increase the connection of the Investiture stored?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. Mostly because I've got a main character who's going to be doing this, I'm not going to spoil the fun or lock myself down yet.

 

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Im honestly a little stuck on the whole "Blank Connection, to no place."  Blanking Identity I get, but Blanking Connection while Storing?  Or does Storing a Connection always Blank the other end, leaving only the general type Slot (ie. Homeland) to latch onto the nearest target?

I imagined that either it was a kind of medallion hack (not something possible with F-duralumin alone) or that a Connector Ferring can do as you suggest and choose to store a Blanked Connection- one that automatically reaches out and Connects to the nearest "whatever" that the Connection is meant to attach to.

RoW spoilers:

Spoiler

Venli met a human woman in RoW during one of the flashbacks that had a lot of earrings and could speak the Listener language shockingly well. I think it's very likely that she was a Connector Ferring, and used her powers to communicate with Venli.

As such, I think that it's very likely that Connector Ferrings do have the innate ability to Blank their stored Connection, which would allow them to understand the languages of the foreign lands they visit.

48 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I've missed the blank connection. Interesting implications. That means that you can store your connection to your friend, which isn't blank, which would make you for the time of storing to be less of a friend, but when you want him to ask for a favor, you can tap it, which temporarily strengthen your friendship with him, but you can use that connection ONLY on him. But if you can make that blank somehow, you can tap it to connect to any person you want to. Very interesting. But what does it mean blank connection?

Very interesting implications indeed. When they say "Blank Connection", I think that it means that the Investiture knows it's meant to Connect to some kind of specific thing (in this case, a birthplace, or at least a location) but it doesn't have a specific target, which causes it to reach out to the nearest thing it's meant to Connect to (in this case, the nearest location). As to how you Blank Connection in a Duraluminmind, I don't know.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Yes, but a blank connection makes his problem a bit easier to solve. He needs a way to store his connection to Scadrial and tap the blank connection, which would allow him to move freely from planet to planet. He doesn't need to tap a blank connection, but that's easier for him to gain language skill and familiarity with the land.

I don't know that I understand your line of reasoning.

I was thinking that Kelsier could store his Connection to Scadrial, thus allowing him to leave the planet if he chose, but that he can't use the power in the first place- he mentions in TLM that he desperately wants to re-obtain the Metallic Arts, but doesn't yet know how.

In any case, this would explain why F-duralumin can store Connection but why it hasn't allowed Kelsier to leave Scadrial yet.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Yes, I do also believe that the emotions and memory of a person's interactions with you strengthen a newly formed connection, so when you stop tapping, the connection is strong enough for them to consider you more as a friend. But if you don't interact at all with that person, it will fade to almost nothing.

Agreed; if someone were to randomly get a good feeling about someone else but not talk to them, they'd likely still forget about them pretty quickly.

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I don't know that I understand your line of reasoning.

I was thinking that Kelsier could store his Connection to Scadrial, thus allowing him to leave the planet if he chose, but that he can't use the power in the first place- he mentions in TLM that he desperately wants to re-obtain the Metallic Arts, but doesn't yet know how.

In any case, this would explain why F-duralumin can store Connection but why it hasn't allowed Kelsier to leave Scadrial yet.

I was talking about different methods of manipulation connections other than metal arts. Which I should make clear. SA spoilers:

Spoiler

For example BAM

He can get rid of his connection to Scadrial with whatever means, move to a different planet - but with having a blank connection, he can use it to connect himself to other planets and speak in their language, which would make this whole endeavor easier. Unless what allows him to exist as a Cognitive Shadow is the connection to Scadrial, and therefore he needs to keep connection to planets at all times - in this case he needs to replace his connection to Scadrial with connection to other planets first, which will allowed him to leave, SA spoilers:

Spoiler

RoW, ch 92 epigraph:

Quote

"The bond is what keeps us alive. You sever that, and we will slowly decompose into ordinary souls—with no valid Connection to the Physical or Spiritual Realms. Capture one of us with your knives, and you won’t be left with a spren in a jar, foolish ones. You’ll be left with a being that eventually fades away into the Beyond."

 

 

Edited May 9 by alder24

[Trusk'our]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I was talking about different methods of manipulation connections other than metal arts. Which I should make clear. SA spoilers:

  Hide contents

For example BAM

He can get rid of his connection to Scadrial with whatever means, move to a different planet - but with having a blank connection, he can use it to connect himself to other planets and speak in their language, which would make this whole endeavor easier. Unless what allows him to exist as a Cognitive Shadow is the connection to Scadrial, and therefore he needs to keep connection to planets at all times - in this case he needs to replace his connection to Scadrial with connection to other planets first, which will allowed him to leave, SA spoilers:

  Hide contents

RoW, ch 92 epigraph:

 

 

Ah, yes, that makes sense. And yeah, his Connection to Preservation is almost certainly what's keeping him alive (though it might be that his soul is "expanded" enough to continue to survive on its own at this point), so he'd likely need a new valid Connection to keep him around and kicking.

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

Spoilers for Stormlight 5 prequel (are we allowed to discuss that on here as long as it's in a spoiler tag?)

Spoiler

Kelsier talks to Gavilar through a Seon, so he might (heavy emphasis on might) already have some way of manipulating Connection, at least enough to be able to speak the language of a different planet. It's doubtful though, because it depends on whether or not Seons can autotranslate (or they have some way of manipulating Connection themselves)

 

[alder24]

48 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Spoilers for Stormlight 5 prequel (are we allowed to discuss that on here as long as it's in a spoiler tag?)

Yes, you can. SA5 and Elantris spoilers:

Spoiler

I think they just translate. Or Kelsier has learned vorin language to communicate with the Rosharan group. Shallan's seon speaks in her language so I guess it's a connection or bond seons form that allows them to translate. 

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

Yes, you can. SA5 and Elantris spoilers:

  Hide contents

I think they just translate. Or Kelsier has learned vorin language to communicate with the Rosharan group. Shallan's seon speaks in her language so I guess it's a connection or bond seons form that allows them to translate. 

 

Well, there goes that idea. I really don't think Kelsier can use Medallions, or at least that F-Duralumin isn't enough to get around the Connection keeping him bound to Scadrial, since if it could he would have long ago left Scadrial, since he's known about the Southerners for a long time, and it really couldn't be that hard for him to swipe at least one Duralumin Medallion in all that time. That said, once the Scadrians reach FTL technology, would his Connection to Scadrial prevent him from leaving it via the Physical Realm that way? If it can, what happens if he travels to Roshar, then goes through, say, Cultivation's Perpendicularity, and enters the Rosharan Subastral? Does he get yoinked straight back to Scadrial?

[alder24]

5 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That said, once the Scadrians reach FTL technology, would his Connection to Scadrial prevent him from leaving it via the Physical Realm that way? If it can, what happens if he travels to Roshar, then goes through, say, Cultivation's Perpendicularity, and enters the Rosharan Subastral? Does he get yoinked straight back to Scadrial?

No idea, I wonder about it too.

[therunner]

12 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Well, there goes that idea. I really don't think Kelsier can use Medallions, or at least that F-Duralumin isn't enough to get around the Connection keeping him bound to Scadrial, since if it could he would have long ago left Scadrial, since he's known about the Southerners for a long time, and it really couldn't be that hard for him to swipe at least one Duralumin Medallion in all that time. That said, once the Scadrians reach FTL technology, would his Connection to Scadrial prevent him from leaving it via the Physical Realm that way? If it can, what happens if he travels to Roshar, then goes through, say, Cultivation's Perpendicularity, and enters the Rosharan Subastral? Does he get yoinked straight back to Scadrial?

 

6 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No idea, I wonder about it too.

I think there is a WoB (though I cannot find it right now) that says that even travel in Physical realm is impossible for objects/entities bound to given system.
The example given is that (SA spoilers I guess?)
 

Spoiler

gemstone charged with Stormlight would get progressively 'heavier', until it could not be moved at all, at least in the direction away form Rosharan system.

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

1 minute ago, therunner said:

 

  Hide contents

gemstone charged with Stormlight would get progressively 'heavier', until it could not be moved at all, at least in the direction away form Rosharan system.

 

Was that not in reference to gemstones being moved in the CR rather than the PR? I don't recall exactly which one it was, but I can't think of how they would know that as they don't have the means to move between worlds through the PR yet

[therunner]

Just now, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Was that not in reference to gemstones being moved in the CR rather than the PR? I don't recall exactly which one it was, but I can't think of how they would know that as they don't have the means to move between worlds through the PR yet

It is possible, however I think CR or PR it would work the same way.
The Investiture comprising or sufficiently suffusing the objects/entities is bound to be in certain location, and CR and PR both are location dependent. I mean objects CR representations typically track their PR manifestations, so traveling in PR inevitably leads to movement in CR as well.

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

1 minute ago, therunner said:

It is possible, however I think CR or PR it would work the same way.
The Investiture comprising or sufficiently suffusing the objects/entities is bound to be in certain location, and CR and PR both are location dependent. I mean objects CR representations typically track their PR manifestations, so traveling in PR inevitably leads to movement in CR as well.

Could be. The idea of something becoming so heavy because of Connection that it stops something like a Spaceship is just difficult to imagine. What does weight mean in space anyway? Does it just simply become harder and harder to move, rather than something more conditional like becoming heavier? On that note, what would an Invested object look like in the CR? Humans show up as glowing figures/flames, so maybe they just show up as whatever their Cognitive Aspect is, but glowing. So a Polestone filled with Stormlight would just be a bead in Shadesmar, but glowing?

[therunner]

3 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Could be. The idea of something becoming so heavy because of Connection that it stops something like a Spaceship is just difficult to imagine. What does weight mean in space anyway? Does it just simply become harder and harder to move, rather than something more conditional like becoming heavier?

Well, mass is still relevant, the heavier the object the difficult it is to accelerate it.
I imagine Connection to system acts sort of like a force that counteracts any attempt to move Investiture away from system. Within system it does nothing (or next to nothing), but closer to the edge of system you are, the stronger the force becomes. In that way it acts kinda like strong force, which also becomes stronger with growing distance, unlike the other forces we are familiar with.
 

Quote

On that note, what would an Invested object look like in the CR? Humans show up as glowing figures/flames, so maybe they just show up as whatever their Cognitive Aspect is, but glowing. So a Polestone filled with Stormlight would just be a bead in Shadesmar, but glowing?

I think objects would be still beads (in Rosharan cognitive at least), but they would probably be glowing or something like that.
It is interesting that metal glows in Scadrial CR, but does not seem to have similar effect in Rosharan CR.

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

1 minute ago, therunner said:

Well, mass is still relevant, the heavier the object the difficult it is to accelerate it.
I imagine Connection to system acts sort of like a force that counteracts any attempt to move Investiture away from system. Within system it does nothing (or next to nothing), but closer to the edge of system you are, the stronger the force becomes. In that way it acts kinda like strong force, which also becomes stronger with growing distance, unlike the other forces we are familiar with.

So it's like the object becomes more and more massive (without actually changing physically at all) until you can't accelerate it in a direction away from its system anymore? Kind of like Gravity, except it gets stronger the farther you go rather than the inverse. So there's almost a sort of reverse event horizon around the planet, beyond which the Connected object can't be moved? Interesting.

4 minutes ago, therunner said:

I think objects would be still beads (in Rosharan cognitive at least), but they would probably be glowing or something like that.
It is interesting that metal glows in Scadrial CR, but does not seem to have similar effect in Rosharan CR.

Interesting that it only happens in the Scadrian Subastral (so far as we can tell) considering we know from Kelsier and the Bands of Mourning that metals and peoples' souls are the same at a fundamental level, which is a little confusing, since souls are made of Investiture and metals aren't. Either all metals glow in the CR and we just haven't observed it in Roshar because the metals manifest as beads, or it has something to do with the nature of metals themselves (there's a WoB that I can't find that says metals are weird in the Cosmere, partly because of why Investiture in solid form in the PR is always metallic, at least tangentially (and who knows what's going on with Aluminium)) that only expresses itself in te Scadrian Subastral because of how metal-centric that system is.

[therunner]

31 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

So it's like the object becomes more and more massive (without actually changing physically at all) until you can't accelerate it in a direction away from its system anymore? Kind of like Gravity, except it gets stronger the farther you go rather than the inverse. So there's almost a sort of reverse event horizon around the planet, beyond which the Connected object can't be moved? Interesting.

I guess reverse event horizon is a good description.
It would be less like the object becoming more massive, and more there is a force that acts to counteract attempts to carry Investiture away from system.

32 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Interesting that it only happens in the Scadrian Subastral (so far as we can tell) considering we know from Kelsier and the Bands of Mourning that metals and peoples' souls are the same at a fundamental level, which is a little confusing, since souls are made of Investiture and metals aren't.

Well, neither Kelsier nor Wax know anything about realmatic theory, so I would take their statements with grain of salt.
I think instead that what they see is Innate Investiture, and since we know that energy, matter and investiture are the same (in the same sense IRL matter and energy is the same), it would look the same.

33 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Either all metals glow in the CR and we just haven't observed it in Roshar because the metals manifest as beads, or it has something to do with the nature of metals themselves (there's a WoB that I can't find that says metals are weird in the Cosmere, partly because of why Investiture in solid form in the PR is always metallic, at least tangentially (and who knows what's going on with Aluminium)) that only expresses itself in te Scadrian Subastral because of how metal-centric that system is.

Yeah, possibly.