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Shallan's psychology: ready to dual-ascend?

TeccamTheTurtle

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TeccamTheTurtle

TeccamTheTurtle

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Alright, so, 1st post here, but something clicked in my mind and I wanted to know what you all think about it.

Shallan is used to having multiple voices (Intents?) in her head, to find a common path among them. Would she be more ready than most other people to hold 2 shards with conflicting Intents? (or even 3, given the ones in Roshar and the fact that 3 were the main personalities she's had). Is it too far fetched to think that her psyche's situation could be foreshadowing/preparation for this possibility? 

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alder24

alder24

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2 hours ago, TeccamTheTurtle said:

Alright, so, 1st post here, but something clicked in my mind and I wanted to know what you all think about it.

Shallan is used to having multiple voices (Intents?) in her head, to find a common path among them. Would she be more ready than most other people to hold 2 shards with conflicting Intents? (or even 3, given the ones in Roshar and the fact that 3 were the main personalities she's had). Is it too far fetched to think that her psyche's situation could be foreshadowing/preparation for this possibility? 

Welcome to the Shard.

I think she might be even worse choice for dual Shard Vessel, as only one of her personalities can be in control at any given moment, so if Veil was good Vessel for Odium, and Radiant is for Honor, they could not get in a proper state of mind to even Ascend to the dual Shard in a fist place, and holding it would be a nightmare, as soon as Veil is in control, Honor would slip out of her hands, maybe even leading to self Shattering. But if Shallan absorbs all her personalities, then she could be a dual Shard Vessel, as not she doesn't have that problem.

Or maybe expansion of the mind that Vessel experiences when Ascending, would be enough for her personalities to merge into one, avoiding this problem.

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Telperion

Telperion he/him

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That is an excellent point! It would be extra cool and interesting if someone with her split personality would make a good multi-shard or a terror on the Cosmere. Love the thought process.

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Quantus

Quantus he/him

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4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Welcome to the Shard.

I think she might be even worse choice for dual Shard Vessel, as only one of her personalities can be in control at any given moment, so if Veil was good Vessel for Odium, and Radiant is for Honor, they could not get in a proper state of mind to even Ascend to the dual Shard in a fist place, and holding it would be a nightmare, as soon as Veil is in control, Honor would slip out of her hands, maybe even leading to self Shattering. But if Shallan absorbs all her personalities, then she could be a dual Shard Vessel, as not she doesn't have that problem.

Or maybe expansion of the mind that Vessel experiences when Ascending, would be enough for her personalities to merge into one, avoiding this problem.

I could also see it going in the other direction, and the Ascension could spin off her secondary persona's into their own separate Spren state.  I dont think that would make her any better at holding two shards, though it might shortcut the Shard to gaining it's own independent Sapience if one of them Absorbed one of the them. 

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JohnnyKaizen

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She would also run the risk of one Shard suppressing another? I don't know if it's physically possible to "trap" a Shard, but if the persona bound to it believes that it can be dominated into "the back of her mind" then I would think it possible. In that case, I'd think Odium would use such an ability to get what it Intends, in a more succinct way? Singular mastery.  

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Trusk'our

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On 4/10/2023 at 11:42 AM, Quantus said:

I could also see it going in the other direction, and the Ascension could spin off her secondary persona's into their own separate Spren state.  I dont think that would make her any better at holding two shards, though it might shortcut the Shard to gaining it's own independent Sapience if one of them Absorbed one of the them. 

Honestly, that sounds to me like what may happen with Sazed; a portion of his power is starting to take on a life of its own since he won't follow through with its Intent and it is starting to break off/act more independently.

But who knows, that may end up not being the case and something completely different may end up happening.

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TeccamTheTurtle

TeccamTheTurtle

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Hi, it's been a while since i posted that first message, sorry to answer you all this late, IRL stuff happens. ROW spoilers ahead

On 10/4/2023 at 1:04 PM, alder24 said:

Welcome to the Shard.

I think she might be even worse choice for dual Shard Vessel, as only one of her personalities can be in control at any given moment, so if Veil was good Vessel for Odium, and Radiant is for Honor, they could not get in a proper state of mind to even Ascend to the dual Shard in a fist place, and holding it would be a nightmare, as soon as Veil is in control, Honor would slip out of her hands, maybe even leading to self Shattering. But if Shallan absorbs all her personalities, then she could be a dual Shard Vessel, as not she doesn't have that problem.

Or maybe expansion of the mind that Vessel experiences when Ascending, would be enough for her personalities to merge into one, avoiding this problem.

On 10/4/2023 at 5:42 PM, Quantus said:

I could also see it going in the other direction, and the Ascension could spin off her secondary persona's into their own separate Spren state.  I dont think that would make her any better at holding two shards, though it might shortcut the Shard to gaining it's own independent Sapience if one of them Absorbed one of the them. 

Since ROW, we've seen Shallan struggle with the creation of Formless, to then retrieve retrieve control and reunite with Veil, assimilating her. I believe she's in a self discovery/control route which drove her to an extreme most people don't have to experience but when and if she ends up enduring and resolving it, she would be more ready than most people to hold multiple Intents and harmonize them, acting as the emulsifier.

On 11/4/2023 at 9:31 PM, JohnnyKaizen said:

She would also run the risk of one Shard suppressing another? I don't know if it's physically possible to "trap" a Shard, but if the persona bound to it believes that it can be dominated into "the back of her mind" then I would think it possible. In that case, I'd think Odium would use such an ability to get what it Intends, in a more succinct way? Singular mastery.  

Not necessarily, maybe i should've specified that I believe this could happen in the future, once she's overcomed all of this and learnt to be a single unifying being, so in that point she won't think she could be dominated into the back of her mind. 

On 20/5/2023 at 1:18 AM, Trusk'our said:

Honestly, that sounds to me like what may happen with Sazed; a portion of his power is starting to take on a life of its own since he won't follow through with its Intent and it is starting to break off/act more independently.

But who knows, that may end up not being the case and something completely different may end up happening.

Exactly! but Sazed wasn't as mentaly trained to hold both Intents as Shallan is.

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alder24

alder24

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2 hours ago, TeccamTheTurtle said:

Since ROW, we've seen Shallan struggle with the creation of Formless, to then retrieve retrieve control and reunite with Veil, assimilating her. I believe she's in a self discovery/control route which drove her to an extreme most people don't have to experience but when and if she ends up enduring and resolving it, she would be more ready than most people to hold multiple Intents and harmonize them, acting as the emulsifier.

Not necessarily, maybe i should've specified that I believe this could happen in the future, once she's overcomed all of this and learnt to be a single unifying being, so in that point she won't think she could be dominated into the back of her mind. 

Oh in that way. You definitely should have specified that. If she manages to deal with her personality disorder and fully recover, then yes, she could be a good dual Shard holder. But for which Shards is another question. She needs not only very strong connections to both Shards but also a deep and detailed understanding of those Shards' nature.

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JohnnyKaizen

JohnnyKaizen he/him

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18 hours ago, alder24 said:

Oh in that way. You definitely should have specified that. If she manages to deal with her personality disorder and fully recover, then yes, she could be a good dual Shard holder. But for which Shards is another question. She needs not only very strong connections to both Shards but also a deep and detailed understanding of those Shards' nature.

It's too bad that Creativity, Forgetfulness, and Self-Deception aren't Shards, cause she'd have those on lock.

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JohnnyKaizen

JohnnyKaizen he/him

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1 hour ago, Argenti said:

well....
SP4

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virtuosity!??!

 

I actually haven't read anything about SP3 or 4 because I felt like being surprised. It's a rare opportunity to not know what's coming..but also (and mostly) I am too impatient so it's easier to manage that if I don't know:lol:

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Argenti

Argenti he/him

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Just now, JohnnyKaizen said:

I actually haven't read anything about SP3 or 4 because I felt like being surprised. It's a rare opportunity to not know what's coming..but also (and mostly) I am too impatient so it's easier to manage that if I don't know:lol:

safe to say, the implaction is close enough

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