Why were the Steel Inquisitors so strong?

[The Cosmere Unaware]

We're repeatedly told that they're way stronger than our cast in a direct pushing competition or other applications of Allomancy, but why?

Hemalurgy loses some power when transferring, did they have two spikes of the same type? It wouldn't be that they just stole from people in the past while the arts were less dilluted, since they'd have to compound atium to live long enough for that to be feasible.

[StormingTexan he/him]

Inquisitors who were a Misting or Mistborn essentially doubled their powers with the spikes so there is that advantage. They also were frequently granted Feruchemy abilities like healing and speed and of course compounding. 

[Quantus he/him]

Double spikes Spike Doubling and Duralumin, mostly.

 

 

Quote

 

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventy-Four

Allomantic Secrets

Some people have asked me why the Lord Ruler was so careful to keep secrets about Allomancy. What would it have mattered if he let out that there were atium Mistings?

Some of the secrets offered a sizable tactical advantage. Keeping back duralumin and aluminum gave him and his Inquisitors (the only ones told about those metals, other than a few select obligators) tools that nobody knew about. Very few Inquisitors could burn duralumin (and most who did it gained the ability through the use of spikes reused from previous, dead Inquisitors—and those spikes were therefore much weaker.). However, those who did have the power could appear inordinately skilled in Allomancy, enhancing the Lord Ruler's divine reputation.

Beyond that, knowledge is power. I believe that. And I think that if you're the Lord Ruler, you want to keep a few secrets about your magic system. Mistborn are very rare. Mistings among the nobility—particularly in the early centuries—were not rare. If they'd known about atium Mistings, it could have upset the balance by creating too many superwarriors.

Plus, if there are unknown superwarriors to be had, then you want to keep them for yourself.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (April 15, 2010)

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Quantus

[alder24]

19 minutes ago, The Cosmere Unaware said:

We're repeatedly told that they're way stronger than our cast in a direct pushing competition or other applications of Allomancy, but why?

Hemalurgy loses some power when transferring, did they have two spikes of the same type? It wouldn't be that they just stole from people in the past while the arts were less dilluted, since they'd have to compound atium to live long enough for that to be feasible.

Inquisitors like Marsh had 9-11 spikes, mostly single Allomantic ability from base 8 metals + Atium + Feruchemical healing + linchpin spike. So they mostly didn't have the same power doubled. But Marsh was a natural Seeker, so his A-Bronze was almost double in strength. And some inquisitors were full Mistborn before, which would make them twice as strong in every ability gained by spike than normal Mistborn.

On top of that, they had decades to practice their skills in Allomancy, making them better, and healing is a game changer in all fights. Steelsight also can give them a slight advantage in a fight, and almost unlimited access to Atium for those of them who had that spike is as well very important. But mostly, they were not alone, they worked in groups (which is called a murder!), and facing off several inquisitors at once is a huge deal.

On top of that, having several spikes makes them more invested, which increases their lifespan a bit - how much I don't remember if there were some numbers in books, but a bit longer. Most Inquisitors were made like Marsh, preferably with "fresh" spikes, given straight from their donors, to minimize hemalurgic decay. So normal Inquisitor would have Allomantic strength around 0.9  of normal Mistborn/Misting.

HoA epigraphs, ch 37

Quote

Hemalurgic decay was less obvious in Inquisitors that had been created from Mistborn. Since they already had Allomantic powers, the addition of other abilities made them awesomely strong.

In most cases, however, Inquisitors were created from Mistings. It appears that Seekers, like Marsh, were the favored recruits. For, when a Mistborn wasn't available, an Inquisitor with enhanced bronze abilities was a powerful tool for searching out skaa Mistings.

 

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

How long is the lifespan of an Inquisitor?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It depends on the powers they're given. Some burn up quickly, and others are extended. In general though they do tend to have slightly longer lives. Since Marsh has the missing bag of atium he's going to be around for a while.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventy-Four

Allomantic Secrets

Some people have asked me why the Lord Ruler was so careful to keep secrets about Allomancy. What would it have mattered if he let out that there were atium Mistings?

Some of the secrets offered a sizable tactical advantage. Keeping back duralumin and aluminum gave him and his Inquisitors (the only ones told about those metals, other than a few select obligators) tools that nobody knew about. Very few Inquisitors could burn duralumin (and most who did it gained the ability through the use of spikes reused from previous, dead Inquisitors—and those spikes were therefore much weaker.). However, those who did have the power could appear inordinately skilled in Allomancy, enhancing the Lord Ruler's divine reputation.

Beyond that, knowledge is power. I believe that. And I think that if you're the Lord Ruler, you want to keep a few secrets about your magic system. Mistborn are very rare. Mistings among the nobility—particularly in the early centuries—were not rare. If they'd known about atium Mistings, it could have upset the balance by creating too many superwarriors.

Plus, if there are unknown superwarriors to be had, then you want to keep them for yourself.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (April 15, 2010)

 

But after TLR death and freeing Ruin, he could very likely give them multiple spikes of the same ability to make them even stronger. But even during Ruin times, they didn't know how to compound.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

The Inquisitor's Speed

What the Inquisitor does here at the end is very important. If you've read book two recently, you may recognize this as what Sazed did when he tapped speed at the end of that book.

The Inquisitors are gaining Feruchemical powers, which makes them very, very dangerous. Mixing Feruchemy and Allomancy is what made the Lord Ruler so formidable. Fortunately, it took him a long time to figure out how to mix the powers correctly, and the Inquisitors haven't had the time to practice, regardless of the force controlling them.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (June 25, 2009)

 

[Mistchemist16]

33 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Double spikes and Duralumin, mostly.

When you say double spikes, are you referring to Mistborn inquistors with single spikes or actual dual spikes? I don’t believe Inquistors have dual spikes. If we take the one from Vetitan as standard model, (minus pewter spike) all Inquistors have spikes for the 8 basic metals + a linchpin (which may or may not add more power). Some also get gold and Atium spikes, though I doubt any Mistborn Inquistors got the latter (better to arm another Inquisitor with Atium than add a few second boost to an existing one).

Also, do we know if any Inqusitors from before Ruin’s release used duralumin on screen? The WoB does mention duralumin spikes, which should’ve theoretically be given to Mistings for the same reason as Atium (better to arm new Inquistors). Also, Mistborn Inquistors could definitely burn duralumin from their natural abilites. 

[Quantus he/him]

39 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

When you say double spikes, are you referring to Mistborn inquistors with single spikes or actual dual spikes? I don’t believe Inquistors have dual spikes. If we take the one from Vetitan as standard model, (minus pewter spike) all Inquistors have spikes for the 8 basic metals + a linchpin (which may or may not add more power). Some also get gold and Atium spikes, though I doubt any Mistborn Inquistors got the latter (better to arm another Inquisitor with Atium than add a few second boost to an existing one).

"Spike Doubling" would have been a better term, along the lines of what Vin had.  Any Mistings or Mistborn that also got the "standard" set of spikes would have had their natural abilities doubled. 

39 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Also, do we know if any Inqusitors from before Ruin’s release used duralumin on screen? The WoB does mention duralumin spikes, which should’ve theoretically be given to Mistings for the same reason as Atium (better to arm new Inquistors). Also, Mistborn Inquistors could definitely burn duralumin from their natural abilites. 

Between the mentions in the books and the clarifying WOB annotation, I think it's safe to assume so since it was part of his method to build the whole divinity reputation for him and his inquisitors. As you say they probably wouldnt have been wasted on increasing a Mistborn's Duralumin ability (which might not really Increase much by it's nature), but could definitely make any Misting Inquisitors capable of terrifying displays that the population would assume they could do at will (since both aluminum and Duralumin were secret).  

 

 

[HSuperLee]

One thing to remember is that we know that not every Inquisitor is the same, but most people did not know that. If they saw an Inquisitor with enhanced pewter do things that no other pewter-arm could do, then people are going to assume Inquisitor's break the normal limits of allomancy. If an Inquisitor had f-gold and people see them heal from what should be a lethal wound, they're going to assume all Inquisitors have impossible healing. Combine this with the fact that the Skaa didn't even know what allomancy was, and it becomes pretty clear how the Inquisitors developed their reputation.

[StanLemon]

There is definitely more going on with Inquisitors than just Spike doubling, unless every single instance of an Inquisitor being stronger than Kelsier or Vin is an Inquisitor made from a Mistborn. Which is unlikely as it is explicitly stated that most Inquisitors were not Mistborn and were originally just Seekers. Bendal was physically stronger than Kelsier, and there was a random Inquisitor when Vin was trying to escape Kredik Shaw that Iron Pulled a candelabra from Vin's flaired Pewter enhanced grip and she even says his Ironpull is stronger than Kelsier's ever was. So unless this random Inquisitor was also a Mistborn, which is already established as unlikely, something about becoming an Inquisitor increases Allomantic power.

[Mistchemist16]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

There is definitely more going on with Inquisitors than just Spike doubling, unless every single instance of an Inquisitor being stronger than Kelsier or Vin is an Inquisitor made from a Mistborn. Which is unlikely as it is explicitly stated that most Inquisitors were not Mistborn and were originally just Seekers. Bendal was physically stronger than Kelsier, and there was a random Inquisitor when Vin was trying to escape Kredik Shaw that Iron Pulled a candelabra from Vin's flaired Pewter enhanced grip and she even says his Ironpull is stronger than Kelsier's ever was. So unless this random Inquisitor was also a Mistborn, which is already established as unlikely, something about becoming an Inquisitor increases Allomantic power.

Well, Vin does say normal inquistors have 9 spikes in HoA. Personally, I figured that Mistborn inquistors would always have the nine spike build. They would never have spikes for A-Atium or A-Duralumin (those would be saved for Misting Inquistors). Also, it seems unlikely TLR would’ve risked giving them F-Gold, since they might figure out Compounding. In fact, Bendal could have this build, since he doesn’t explicitly use F-Gold like Kar. However, it’s more likely Mistborn Inquistors would have gold than duralumin or Atium.  If the Kredik Shaw Inquistor isn’t a base Mistborn, we have to assume he had duralumin. But if anyone wants to reference that chapter more specifically, I’d appreciate it. Otherwise, I don’t believe we know enough about the unnamed Inquistors to judge if they were Mistings or not. I assume the ones Marsh killed in TFE and most of Ruin’s group (except for the Vetitan Inquistor) were Mistings

Also, I just realized there’s one other possible spike we havent accounted for: F-Atium. I say this for two reasons

1. Marsh wasn’t given an F-Atium spike by Ruin. He took it from a dead Inquistor. But it’s strange Ruin would arm other Inquistors and not his top pawn. Which implies the spike Marsh stole may have been added by TLR instead.

zas678

Why on earth does Marsh have a Feruchemical atium spike? You've said that Ironeyes is in fact Marsh. Did Ruin spike someone for him? Or did Sazed grant him the power?

Brandon Sanderson

Dead Inquisitors Vin killed. Some were granted the spike for reasons I haven't spoken of yet.

/r/Fantasy_Bookclub Alloy of Law Q&A (Jan. 17, 2012)

2. WoB says some Inquisitors did live longer. Having Inquistors live longer and appear immortal would definitely be tempting. 
 

Chaos (paraphrased)

How long is the lifespan of an Inquisitor?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It depends on the powers they're given. Some burn up quickly, and others are extended. In general though they do tend to have slightly longer lives. Since Marsh has the missing bag of atium he's going to be around for a while.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

The tricky part is that F-Atium alone doesn’t do much, unless they store during the long rest periods. Also, I assume most, if not all Inquisitors, have A-Atium. So giving F-Atium increases the risk they crack Compounding. 

Its also entirely possible that Ruin gave out the F-Atium spikes. Maybe he was using some sort of weird disguise play. But if the purpose was unlocking Atium Compounding, I’m not sure why he didn’t give Marsh those spikes.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 4/7/2023 at 10:20 AM, The Cosmere Unaware said:

We're repeatedly told that they're way stronger than our cast in a direct pushing competition or other applications of Allomancy, but why?

Hemalurgy loses some power when transferring, did they have two spikes of the same type? It wouldn't be that they just stole from people in the past while the arts were less dilluted, since they'd have to compound atium to live long enough for that to be feasible.

Some Inquisitors were Mistborn before they received their spikes, nearly doubling their Allomantic powers. 

I think that it's likely that some had more than one spike granting the same power, allowing them to increase their Allomantic might- It would be cool to see if they had some kind of ranking system, with higher ranking Inquisitors getting more spikes to further increase their power.

Inquisitors also had some physical transformation going on with them- they were noticeably taller than most people. I think that combined with natural strength training would allow them not only to have greater physical strength than most (Kelsier in TFE commented on this during his final fight) but that the extra weight would have made their Ironpulls and Steelpushes have more force.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:41 PM, Trusk'our said:

Some Inquisitors were Mistborn before they received their spikes, nearly doubling their Allomantic powers. 

I think that it's likely that some had more than one spike granting the same power, allowing them to increase their Allomantic might- It would be cool to see if they had some kind of ranking system, with higher ranking Inquisitors getting more spikes to further increase their power.

Inquisitors also had some physical transformation going on with them- they were noticeably taller than most people. I think that combined with natural strength training would allow them not only to have greater physical strength than most (Kelsier in TFE commented on this during his final fight) but that the extra weight would have made their Ironpulls and Steelpushes have more force.

Definately steel and iron battles are tricky because allomantic strength doesn't necessarily mean that much when weight is involved.  Not only would a person a full head or more taller than you likely weigh far more but inquisitors could have had F iron as well potentially.  

As for physical enhancement it could have been a combination of iron spikes as well.  Just 1 iron spike would supplement speed as well as strength and A pewter would simply magnify any of those changes. 

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Definately steel and iron battles are tricky because allomantic strength doesn't necessarily mean that much when weight is involved.  Not only would a person a full head or more taller than you likely weigh far more but inquisitors could have had F iron as well potentially.  

Absolutely. They had access to at least a few Hemalurgic spikes that provided Feruchemy, so F-iron could have been one of those.

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

As for physical enhancement it could have been a combination of iron spikes as well.  Just 1 iron spike would supplement speed as well as strength and A pewter would simply magnify any of those changes. 

Maybe. The physical warping caused by having a Hemalurgic spike containing a human attribute rather than an Invested power is significantly greater and would likely turn the Hemalurgist into something more akin to a Koloss than a Steel Inquisitor.

However, Koloss require four spikes to fully transform so perhaps you could pull off empowering yourself but remaining mostly human with only one spike.

[Mistchemist16]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Absolutely. They had access to at least a few Hemalurgic spikes that provided Feruchemy, so F-iron could have been one of those.

Honestly, I doubt it. It is highly likely that Rashek never allowed Inquistors to have the same spikes for Allomancy and Feruchemy. That would avoid all risk of Compounding. The only Feruchemy spike we can confirm in Rashek’s Inquistors is F-Gold. However, I don’t believe we have any cases of a Mistborn Inquistor using F-Gold. It would also explain why Vin thinks that normal Inquistors have 9 spikes. If we take the first Inquistor from HoA as a standard Inquistor (minus pewter spike), then that leaves an Inquistor with no Atium. Which would be weird for any Inquistor

However, it would be plausible for 9 spike Inquistors to be Mistborn. They’d already have Atium, so no need for a spike. No F-Gold to prevent Compounding. And their double strength Allomancy (including pewter) makes up for no gold

Ultimately, you do have to pick your posion. Do we have to assume that many of the Inquistors the crew encountered were Mistborn? Or did Rashek leave some Inquistors with no Atium and vulnerable to any Mistborn they came across? I believe the former makes more sense. The Ministry did pick Mistborn when possible and the Mistings would get Atium spikes. But if you think this isn’t the case, I’d love to hear your arguments.

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Honestly, I doubt it. It is highly likely that Rashek never allowed Inquistors to have the same spikes for Allomancy and Feruchemy. That would avoid all risk of Compounding. The only Feruchemy spike we can confirm in Rashek’s Inquistors is F-Gold.

True, Rashek probably wouldn't have wanted them to use too much Feruchemy, with the exception of F-gold.

I wonder how much he allowed them to experiment, or if he even kept a terribly close eye on them; after all, he didn't seem to care about much by the end of his reign.

1 hour ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Ultimately, you do have to pick your posion. Do we have to assume that many of the Inquistors the crew encountered were Mistborn? Or did Rashek leave some Inquistors with no Atium and vulnerable to any Mistborn they came across? I believe the former makes more sense. The Ministry did pick Mistborn when possible and the Mistings would get Atium spikes. But if you think this isn’t the case, I’d love to hear your arguments.

Well, I did some digging and apparently there is confirmation that they don't all have the same powers.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/291/#e8848

Elladan259

I have a questions. I read in the book that under the Lord Ruler, the Steel Inquisitors had 9 spikes. So they had 8 spikes for the normal Allomantic abilities, and only one left. But they needed one more. One would be a Feruchemical spike which granted the user healing abilities. And the other one would be an atium spike. In the book they burned it often, but how? But then, how could they burn atium? They would have needed an atium spike (extremely expensive) and an Mistborn (because atium Mistings weren't discovered).

Somehow, the number of the spike just don't make sense. There should be 10. Do you have some ideas, or is it just an mistake by Brandon Sanderson? 

Peter Ahlstrom

The official answer is that the number varies depending on how many Mistings they can find and sacrifice. Not all Inquisitors will have all the same powers.

And specifically, not all Inquisitors had a Hemalurgic spike providing access to F-gold, though most of them did.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/294/#e10123

17th Shard

Very careful roleplayers have counted the numbers of Inquisitors appearing in the novels and they claim there must have been 25 if Vin and Elend killed two Inquisitors between Mistborn 2 and Mistborn 3. Could you clarify the numbers of Inquisitors there were? They've literally counted.

Brandon Sanderson

They literally, yeah…No, I mean, I've got it written down somewhere. I'm now so separated from this book. I had always imagined there being around three dozen Inquisitors at any given time.

17th Shard

Oh, okay, so quite a bit more than 20.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. Well the thing you've gotta remember is that, with the powers they're given, they're pretty much immune to disease and things like that, particularly after they've gained their healing spike.

17th Shard

Right. Is that common to all Inquisitors?

Brandon Sanderson

It does not come to all. It comes to almost all. That's a pretty common one, but being an Inquisitor does not mean you get it. I think it mentions in the books that there's one spike that they all get, but I can't remember what it is.

17th Shard

I would imagine that would…well, okay, a steel spike so they could see.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. Yeah, obvious, but the thing is you've gotta have a Keeper to be able give a healing spike. The ones alive now pretty much all have healing spikes, but there were times throughout history when he needed a new Inquisitor and he didn't have a Keeper (a Feruchemist) handy. He could make an Inquisitor without that. That is not what's keeping them alive from the spikes being driven through their bodies.

17th Shard

So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

Brandon Sanderson

It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

In any case, back to @Mistchemist16's question:

In the end, I'm going to have to say that most Inquisitors were probably Seekers originally, with only a few of them being Mistborn; I just don't think that someone who is a powerful Mistborn would particularly want to serve in the Steel Ministry- they already have a lot of power, so joining the ministry for that reason wouldn't be appealing to them. Plus, they have more freedom to do what they want when they want on their own. If they are a member of a high-ranking noble house, they're already living a life of luxury. If they're from a minor noble family, they could sell their services to other more powerful (and wealthy) noble houses to improve their lives.

 Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my viewpoint.

[Mistchemist16]

57 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Well, I did some digging and apparently there is confirmation that they don't all have the same powers.

And specifically, not all Inquisitors had a Hemalurgic spike providing access to F-gold, though most of them did.

I’m fine with the idea that some Misting Inquistors don’t have gold spikes. It’s a good power, but people will assume the worst about Inquistors and Mistborn Inquistors have their enhanced powers to back them up

However, I don’t believe any Misting Inquistors have 9 spikes. Such Inquistors would have no Atium, which would be insanely risky and dangerous. Sure, they might work for a time if they are dealing with Mistings. But if they encounter a Mistborn, they die immediately to one sided Atium.

If an Inquistor is caught without Atium, two major problems arise. First, that’s one more legendary Inquistor dead, blunting their reputation of immortality. Two, someone might eventually question why they had no atium. It may not be immediately, since Mistborn will kill the moment Atium burns. But if that Inquistors stops easily sweeping Misting teams or the Mistborn thinks, they may start asking unpleasant questions. It’s just such an unnecessary risk to take and finished the power of the Inquistors significantly. So I don’t buy that the Lord Ruler used any Inquistors without Atium. Which means Misting Inquistors must have 10 spikes minimum.

57 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

In the end, I'm going to have to say that most Inquisitors were probably Seekers originally, with only a few of them being Mistborn; I just don't think that someone who is a powerful Mistborn would particularly want to serve in the Steel Ministry- they already have a lot of power, so joining the ministry for that reason wouldn't be appealing to them. Plus, they have more freedom to do what they want when they want on their own. If they are a member of a high-ranking noble house, they're already living a life of luxury. If they're from a minor noble family, they could sell their services to other more powerful (and wealthy) noble houses to improve their lives.

I think the first part is fairly accurate. Harmony says as much in the Chapter 37 epigraph

“Hemalurgic decay was less obvious in Inquisitors that had been created from Mistborn. Since they already had Allomantic powers, the addition of other abilities made them awesomely strong.

In most cases, however, Inquisitors were created from Mistings. It appears that Seekers, like Marsh, were the favored recruits.”

However, if we assume Mistborn Inquistors had nine spikes, then we know a few things. We know Kar was a Misting and the Vetitan Inquistor was Mistborn. I think Bendal may be Mistborn since he was stronger than Kelsier and I don’t remember him explicitly using F-Gold. But if anyone has the scene from TFE, I’m happy to reconsider. Otherwise, the Inquistors from the throne room probably weren’t Mistborn. Ditto for some of Ruin’s Inquistors. And there were even more offscreen or elsewhere in the Empire who were most likely Mistings. The numbers would only seem skewed if Mistborn Inquistors stayed close to Luthadel.

As for recruiting Mistborn, user @robardin provided two possibilites for how Mistborn would be recruited in their thread about Marsh’s spikes. It’s likely that the Ministry did provide a handsome bonus for Mistborn as a way of grooming Inquistors, which would be especially tempting for poorer houses. Plus, some Mistborn may just be highly religious anyway and join the Ministry. Though @robardin did admit there probably weren’t many of these Mistborn. But it really comes down to how many Inquistors Vin got to kill and examine. Those would probably be her frame of reference for saying normal Inquistors have 9 spikes.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[Trusk'our he/him]

13 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

I’m fine with the idea that some Misting Inquistors don’t have gold spikes. It’s a good power, but people will assume the worst about Inquistors and Mistborn Inquistors have their enhanced powers to back them up

However, I don’t believe any Misting Inquistors have 9 spikes. Such Inquistors would have no Atium, which would be insanely risky and dangerous. Sure, they might work for a time if they are dealing with Mistings. But if they encounter a Mistborn, they die immediately to one sided Atium.

If an Inquistor is caught without Atium, two major problems arise. First, that’s one more legendary Inquistor dead, blunting their reputation of immortality. Two, someone might eventually question why they had no atium. It may not be immediately, since Mistborn will kill the moment Atium burns. But if that Inquistors stops easily sweeping Misting teams or the Mistborn thinks, they may start asking unpleasant questions. It’s just such an unnecessary risk to take and finished the power of the Inquistors significantly. So I don’t buy that the Lord Ruler used any Inquistors without Atium. Which means Misting Inquistors must have 10 spikes minimum.

Good points made about needing Atium. With that being the case, I think it very likely that spikes providing A-Atium would be required for most, if not all Steel Inquisitors- it would likely be considered part of the "basic" set along with Allomantic steel, iron, and pewter (would be embarrassing for people to find out that your super powered Inquisitors couldn't do even the most basic Steeljump or take a punch from a Thug, no?).

However, we do know that some Inquisitors had F-Atium, and as we established earlier, it seems very unlikely that Rashek would want them to discover the secret of Compounding, particularly about F-Atium since it would create an opening for one of his most powerful servants to kill him.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/192/#e4142

zas678

Why on earth does Marsh have a Feruchemical atium spike? You've said that Ironeyes is in fact Marsh. Did Ruin spike someone for him? Or did Sazed grant him the power?

Brandon Sanderson

Dead Inquisitors Vin killed. Some were granted the spike for reasons I haven't spoken of yet.

I suppose that Ruin could have given those spikes to the Inquisitors though after he was freed though, which would explain how they got them.

13 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

However, if we assume Mistborn Inquistors had nine spikes, then we know a few things. We know Kar was a Misting and the Vetitan Inquistor was Mistborn. I think Bendal may be Mistborn since he was stronger than Kelsier and I don’t remember him explicitly using F-Gold. But if anyone has the scene from TFE, I’m happy to reconsider. Otherwise, the Inquistors from the throne room probably weren’t Mistborn. Ditto for some of Ruin’s Inquistors. And there were even more offscreen or elsewhere in the Empire who were most likely Mistings. The numbers would only seem skewed if Mistborn Inquistors stayed close to Luthadel.

I agree with you on Bendal being a natural Mistborn, since he had noticablely stronger A-pewter than Kelsier, and Kar was probably a natural Seeker by default.

I'm curious as to why you think the Vetitan Inquisitor was Mistborn though (It's been a while since I read the original trilogy though- could you tell me where to find that Inquisitor again?).

13 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

As for recruiting Mistborn, user @robardin provided two possibilites for how Mistborn would be recruited in their thread about Marsh’s spikes. It’s likely that the Ministry did provide a handsome bonus for Mistborn as a way of grooming Inquistors, which would be especially tempting for poorer houses. Plus, some Mistborn may just be highly religious anyway and join the Ministry. Though @robardin did admit there probably weren’t many of these Mistborn. But it really comes down to how many Inquistors Vin got to kill and examine. Those would probably be her frame of reference for saying normal Inquistors have 9 spikes.

Ah, that makes sense. Money does makes the world go round, and I do tend to forget that many people are faithful enough to their religion to sacrifice for it (which is kind of ironic, actually, seeing as how I'm ussually faithful enough to sacrifice for my religion ).

[StanLemon]

One thing that can probably be confirmed is that none of the Inquisitors at Kredik Shaw had Feruchemy. Not even Kar despite his quick healing. The main proof for this? Vin and Elend hadn't come across any Spikes other than Steel and Bronze prior to HoA

Edited April 13, 2023 by StanLemon

[Mistchemist16]

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm curious as to why you think the Vetitan Inquisitor was Mistborn though (It's been a while since I read the original trilogy though- could you tell me where to find that Inquisitor again?).

The Vetitan Inquisitor is the one Vin and Elend fight in the first few chapters of HoA. Chapter 3 is when they actually fight. 
 

The reason I believe this Inquistor was Mistborn is because it didn’t have an Atium spike. We even see the count described when they open up its corpse. That Inquistor had five steel spikes, four bronze spikes, and a new pewter one. None of those provide Atium. So if the vast majority of Inquistors have Atium, this one must have it naturally. Interestingly enough, that also suggests its steelpush would be double power or even triple if the linchpin augments steel. So lerasium must be even greater than that for Elend to overpower him.
 

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Ah, that makes sense. Money does makes the world go round, and I do tend to forget that many people are faithful enough to their religion to sacrifice for it (which is kind of ironic, actually, seeing as how I'm ussually faithful enough to sacrifice for my religion ).

It also helps that the Ministry has massive control over the economy. If anyone could match a noble house’s funds, it would be them. Of course, it’s still not preferable for most Mistborn. Obligatiors give up their lives, viably tattooing themselves and showing constant devotion, among other things. As such, most Mistborn would probably be happier with wealth AND freedom. Free to live the glamorous life of a noble and play politics. But between the wealth and TLR’s divinity, some would choose the Ministry. Where they would quickly be singled out as Inquistors the moment they prove loyal enough.

Edit: Wanted to clarify two more things that I hadn’t included in the OG post

1. Regarding F-Atium, I believe that it’s the other way around. Because Inquistors would be required to have A-Atium, TLR didn’t provide those spikes. I did try to theorize how TLR used those spikes recently. However, my current posistion is that Inquistors gave themselves F-Atium during WoA, when they raided the Synod. I don’t see why either TLR or Ruin would provide those spikes

2. The only Inquistors Vin actually examined were those between WoA and HoA, when she desperately needed Atium. None were encountered during WoA itself and I don’t believe she checked the TFE Inquistors. This also makes sense because most of the Inquistors she fought after WoA were commanding koloss, which wouldn’t be possible for regular Misting Inquistors. Hence why they all seem to have a nine spike build.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

The Vetitan Inquisitor is the one Vin and Elend fight in the first few chapters of HoA. Chapter 3 is when they actually fight. 
 

The reason I believe this Inquistor was Mistborn is because it didn’t have an Atium spike. We even see the count described when they open up its corpse. That Inquistor had five steel spikes, four bronze spikes, and a new pewter one. None of those provide Atium. So if the vast majority of Inquistors have Atium, this one must have it naturally. Interestingly enough, that also suggests its steelpush would be double power or even triple if the linchpin augments steel. So lerasium must be even greater than that for Elend to overpower him.

Ahhhh. Yes, that Inquisitor would have to have been a Mistborn naturally, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to use A-Atium, and we see that he clearly can.

Also, I've wondered just how powerful a Mistborn who was created via one of the Lerasium beads found at the Well of Ascension would be. Good catch on the comparative power between the Inquisitor and Elend by the way  Another feat of power we saw with Elend was in HoA when he matched the strength of a twelve-foot Koloss by flaring pewter, and a regular-strength Pewterarm only has roughly doubled strength and perhaps tripled strength when flaring.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/9/#e7674

Sandastron

I’m very curious about pewter. How much Feruchemical pewter, steel, and gold would you have to take in in order to be equal to burning pewter and flaring.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh…um, okay. So you wanna...ok, let’s back this up. So you wanna know feruchemically what would it take to match burning?

Sandastron

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay. So burning pewter, I kind of imagine...roughly doubling. Roughly.

Sandastron

Double your strength?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. But without the muscle mass change, it’s a magical boost. So because of that it has some pretty dramatic effects, like when Vin jumps and things like that.

Sandastron

So it’s only a double, so would flaring it bring it any higher?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Flaring would go higher.

Sandastron

Would it be like triple?

Brandon Sanderson

Maybe like triple.

Sandastron

Maybe like tripling...that’s fascinating. So I always thought normal burning would triple it and flaring would quadruple.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah I always felt kind of double. You won’t see people burning pewter and lifting a car.

Sandastron

Right, exactly.

Brandon Sanderson

You see people burning pewter and delivering a really solid punch.

Sandastron

Gotcha, thank you. That is fascinating…and would it be about doubling speed and healing ability?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven’t worked out the numbers on that exactly. I have an instinct that says thatburning pewter, healing goes a bit faster but I have to look in the books and see what we’ve done in the past and then kind of canonize it.

And since a Koloss essentially has two Blessings of Potency on top of having biceps thicker than a human's entire freaking torso, Elend's Allomantic strength must be huge.

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

It also helps that the Ministry has massive control over the economy. If anyone could match a noble house’s funds, it would be them. Of course, it’s still not preferable for most Mistborn. Obligatiors give up their lives, viably tattooing themselves and showing constant devotion, among other things. As such, most Mistborn would probably be happier with wealth AND freedom. Free to live the glamorous life of a noble and play politics. But between the wealth and TLR’s divinity, some would choose the Ministry. Where they would quickly be singled out as Inquistors the moment they prove loyal enough.

Yeah, that makes sense. Some would choose the ministry, but not enough for most Inquisitors to be Mistborn naturally (and as you pointed out, those who did choose to serve in the ministry would almost certainly become Inquisitors. I wonder if the non-Mistborn Inquisitors ever felt jealous of the others?).

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

1. Regarding F-Atium, I believe that it’s the other way around. Because Inquistors would be required to have A-Atium, TLR didn’t provide those spikes. I did try to theorize how TLR used those spikes recently. However, my current posistion is that Inquistors gave themselves F-Atium during WoA, when they raided the Synod. I don’t see why either TLR or Ruin would provide those spikes

2. The only Inquistors Vin actually examined were those between WoA and HoA, when she desperately needed Atium. None were encountered during WoA itself and I don’t believe she checked the TFE Inquistors. This also makes sense because most of the Inquistors she fought after WoA were commanding koloss, which wouldn’t be possible for regular Misting Inquistors. Hence why they all seem to have a nine spike build.

It seems I have found the Sherlock Holms of the 17th Shard 

1. I think makes some sense. It does make me wonder why they would choose to get F-atium when they had a limited number of Keepers to spike and they knew there were other Feruchemical powers to be had that had a much more direct impact their total power (they at least knew about F-gold). Were they just experimenting, perhaps because the Lord Ruler hadn't told them all of Feruchemy's potential?

2. True. Vin would have probably burned the Inquisitors Atium spikes if she found any on them (which she didn't), and combining that with the fact that they could control Koloss they were likely all natural Mistborn as well. I wonder if she thought to check the Inquisitors that Marsh killed in TFE for Atium spikes?

Edited April 13, 2023 by Trusk'our

[StanLemon]

20 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Also, I've wondered just how powerful a Mistborn who was created via one of the Lerasium beads found at the Well of Ascension would be. Good catch on the comparative power between the Inquisitor and Elend by the way  Another feat of power we saw with Elend was in HoA when he matched the strength of a twelve-foot Koloss by flaring pewter, and a regular-strength Pewterarm only has roughly doubled strength and perhaps tripled strength when flaring.

And since a Koloss essentially has two Blessings of Potency on top of having biceps thicker than a human's entire freaking torso, Elend's Allomantic strength must be huge.

Oh yes, based on all incidental evidence from the books, such as that example with Elend and the Koloss, that Lerasium Mistborn could take control of Kandra when even Vin (an already stronger than average Mistborn herself) had difficulty doing so with Duralumin, and the sheer number difference of Koloss that Elend and Vin could take control of in a single Duralumin fueled Soothing. It's safe to say that a Lerasium Mistborn just flaring their metals can compete against other Mistborn using Duralumin.

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Oh yes, based on all incidental evidence from the books, such as that example with Elend and the Koloss, that Lerasium Mistborn could take control of Kandra when even Vin (an already stronger than average Mistborn herself) had difficulty doing so with Duralumin, and the sheer number difference of Koloss that Elend and Vin could take control of in a single Duralumin fueled Soothing. It's safe to say that a Lerasium Mistborn just flaring their metals can compete against other Mistborn using Duralumin.

Yeah, Lerasium-level Allomancy can be very dangerous.

It makes me wonder how powerful one could be if they had a Hemalurgic spike providing 10-50 times the power of a normal Misting  (stacking together the power of multiple Mistings in a single spike).

[Mistchemist16]

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Also, I've wondered just how powerful a Mistborn who was created via one of the Lerasium beads found at the Well of Ascension would be. Good catch on the comparative power between the Inquisitor and Elend by the way  Another feat of power we saw with Elend was in HoA when he matched the strength of a twelve-foot Koloss by flaring pewter, and a regular-strength Pewterarm only has roughly doubled strength and perhaps tripled strength when flaring.

And since a Koloss essentially has two Blessings of Potency on top of having biceps thicker than a human's entire freaking torso, Elend's Allomantic strength must be huge.

At least double, thanks to this power comparison. The one thing I’ve never quite been able to explain is coppercloud peircing. Vin can do it with only a few bronze lessons from Marsh and without really realizing it. She has a spike for double power on top of her unknown base power (which should be stronger than ordinary Mistborn). But WoB implies that Elend didn’t have that ability and would’ve had to learn it. 

<snip>

Questioner

So Elend could theoretically learn to pierce copperclouds?

Brandon Sanderson

Weaker ones, yeah, totally. He can learn how to do it by brute force.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)
 

I assume Vin taught Elend everything she knew, so I don’t know why he can’t peirce coppercloud like she can. My best guess is that Vin could do it easier than a random Mistborn with a spike for bronze. But maybe it’s easier than I give it credit for. Steel Inquistors always have coppercloud piercing and we don’t know enough about how much time they need to train. Or Elend did pierce coppercloud offscreen and the WoB was a bit misleading.

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

It seems I have found the Sherlock Holms of the 17th Shard 

1. I think makes some sense. It does make me wonder why they would choose to get F-atium when they had a limited number of Keepers to spike and they knew there were other Feruchemical powers to be had that had a much more direct impact their total power (they at least knew about F-gold). Were they just experimenting, perhaps because the Lord Ruler hadn't told them all of Feruchemy's potential?

2. True. Vin would have probably burned the Inquisitors Atium spikes if she found any on them (which she didn't), and combining that with the fact that they could control Koloss they were likely all natural Mistborn as well. I wonder if she thought to check the Inquisitors that Marsh killed in TFE for Atium spikes?

I think you mean Shardlock Holms 

1. I believe that the Inquistors were experimenting when they first captured the Terris. If I had to guess, one of the Inquistors thought “Hey, Allomantic Atium is awesome! It’ll be just as good in Feruchemy!” It also works whether the Inquistors partially believe that Atium is a “higher metal” or if they know it’s a God Metal. Either way, you’d assume it’s good.

It also makes me wonder what Ruin was doing in this town. My theory is that he was just giving them bind points for anything they wanted. More spikes means more power and better control, plus Ruin may not have wanted to play his hand right away. But once he got free, he was actively designing Inquistors and deciding what each one would get.

2. Imagine if Vin HAD found an Atium spike and burned it, not realizing it was a spike. That would be interesting and probably disastrous.

I also don’t think she checked the Inquistors in TFE. Vin only runs out of Atium in WoA and there are no Inquistors after until Ruin gets free. Plus, I believe Vin has sold some of the Atium to help Luthadel, which suggests they weren’t desperately short at that time. The crew may have just been distracted by everything else and hadn’t thought of it until their Atium ran out

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[Trusk'our he/him]

7 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

At least double, thanks to this power comparison. The one thing I’ve never quite been able to explain is coppercloud peircing. Vin can do it with only a few bronze lessons from Marsh and without really realizing it. She has a spike for double power on top of her unknown base power (which should be stronger than ordinary Mistborn). But WoB implies that Elend didn’t have that ability and would’ve had to learn it. 

<snip>

Questioner

So Elend could theoretically learn to pierce copperclouds?

Brandon Sanderson

Weaker ones, yeah, totally. He can learn how to do it by brute force.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)
 

I assume Vin taught Elend everything she knew, so I don’t know why he can’t peirce coppercloud like she can. My best guess is that Vin could do it easier than a random Mistborn with a spike for bronze. But maybe it’s easier than I give it credit for. Steel Inquistors always have coppercloud piercing and we don’t know enough about how much time they need to train. Or Elend did pierce coppercloud offscreen and the WoB was a bit misleading.

I think that Elend could do it normally, he just didn't have the opportunity to do so; most of their activity by HoA is combating Koloss and Inquisitors, not sneaking around a nobleman's mansion in the dark and picking out enemy Mistborn.

9 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

I think you mean Shardlock Holms 

Ha! Exactly 

10 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

1. I believe that the Inquistors were experimenting when they first captured the Terris. If I had to guess, one of the Inquistors thought “Hey, Allomantic Atium is awesome! It’ll be just as good in Feruchemy!” It also works whether the Inquistors partially believe that Atium is a “higher metal” or if they know it’s a God Metal. Either way, you’d assume it’s good.

It also makes me wonder what Ruin was doing in this town. My theory is that he was just giving them bind points for anything they wanted. More spikes means more power and better control, plus Ruin may not have wanted to play his hand right away. But once he got free, he was actively designing Inquistors and deciding what each one would get.

Yeah, they probably thought that Atium would be super good, so they decided to take it and hope for the best. Wonder how they felt once they got it.

11 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

 

2. Imagine if Vin HAD found an Atium spike and burned it, not realizing it was a spike. That would be interesting and probably disastrous.

I also don’t think she checked the Inquistors in TFE. Vin only runs out of Atium in WoA and there are no Inquistors after until Ruin gets free. Plus, I believe Vin has sold some of the Atium to help Luthadel, which suggests they weren’t desperately short at that time. The crew may have just been distracted by everything else and hadn’t thought of it until their Atium ran out

Well, it sounds like it actually could work as normal Allomantic Atium so long as the proper Intent is there, similar to Compounding.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361/#e11493

RoboChrist

If you have a Hemalurgic spike made of atium, that grants atium Allomancy, could you use the spike itself as a source of atium to burn?

Brandon Sanderson

Briefly. 

Likely, Vin would have sensed something weird about it, similar to when she tried to burn Sazed's Pewterminds in TFE. She probably still couldn't have accessed that power though.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/200/#e4413

Czanos

Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one?

Brandon Sanderson

Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power…

Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself.

But, assuming that it were possible, she'd end up with some..."strange consequences".

Quote

Tor.com Q&A with Brandon Sanderson - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

 

[alder24]

35 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

1. I believe that the Inquistors were experimenting when they first captured the Terris. If I had to guess, one of the Inquistors thought “Hey, Allomantic Atium is awesome! It’ll be just as good in Feruchemy!” It also works whether the Inquistors partially believe that Atium is a “higher metal” or if they know it’s a God Metal. Either way, you’d assume it’s good.

Are you saying that Inquisitors didn't know what F-Atium does at all? If so, that won't work. Firstly, they need to know what this metal does in order to store in it - they can't just tap it not knowing what it does - BoM proves it with Wax not knowing the coin is a medallion or that the spearhead is the Bands. Inquisitors would steal something that they didn't know what it does, and would have to figure it out by guessing "maybe its youth" to store in Atiummind. Then, them not knowing would very likely mess up with the spiking process. They need to be very precise when spiking, as they are risking stealing something else, and intent is very important part of Hemalurgy. There are several binding points in the heart alone, they need to spike the correct one, they need to know what F-Atium does to do so. Not to mention they need to place it in a right spot on their body, there is likely a spot for general powers, like Atium spikes granting A-Atium go into the heart, but here again, intent might mess things up, and them not knowing what F-Atium does at all would mess thing up for sure. They can't just guess F-Atium is good, they need to know precisely what it does, as they're stealing it with Atium spike, otherwise they wouldn’t have had the precise intent needed for Hemalurgy.

Spoiler

Questioner

My question was about Hemalurgy. There was a disagreement on the last Shardcast. When spiking a Mistborn to charge a Hemalurgic spike, does it matter how the Mistborn is killed or is what power is stolen based only on the metal?

Brandon Sanderson

So you want to place the spike in a specific place.

Questioner

In the donor. In the recipient, not the donor.

Brandon Sanderson

In the recipient. And you want to use the specific metal and so basically if you aren't precise about how you spike, you risk taking the wrong thing within the same family. Some of those, that's not as big a deal, but for some it is kind of a big deal. And so you want to be very precise, you'll get something, but if you're not placing the spike in the right place and going into the right place, then you risk it.

Questioner

You risk stealing the wrong thing.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Now if you're going off of somebody who's not a Mistborn, you can be a little more flexible, but you still have the danger that you're not going to end up stealing the power, you're going to steal something else. So, precision is advisable, how about that?

Questioner

Yeah. Because the question was kind of specifically about, like, we know that atium spikes can kill-- can steal pretty much any power.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. You want to be super precise with your atium spike.

Questioner

So, part of the question was like, exactly, if you just killed a Mistborn, you stab a Mistborn in the heart with an atium spike, and you're not placing it immediately--

Brandon Sanderson

What do you end up with? You are rolling the dice, let's say. Not as big a roll of the dice as you might think, but you still are. You might not get what you want.

Questioner

And then when you place the spike on the recipient, if you like tore that spike out again and put it in someone else, you're not going to be able to get more than one power out of it?

Brandon Sanderson

No. No, and if you place the spike in the wrong place, then you're going to end up with interference and things like this where the spike might just not work the way you want it to. Taking a spike and putting it in the wrong place in someone is not going to make them have a different power, in other words.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

 

And if they knew already what F-Atium does, that it stores youth, then they know that it's useless. Especially if they get that from Keepers, as that's what Keepers thought. Inquisitors during WoA would still not know about compounding, that they could burn their own metalminds and fuel Feruchemy with Allomancy, they didn't know that was what Rashek did, therefore, if they know what F-Atium does, they would have no reason to steal it, when they can steal so many more useful abilities.

[Mistchemist16]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Are you saying that Inquisitors didn't know what F-Atium does at all? If so, that won't work. Firstly, they need to know what this metal does in order to store in it - they can't just tap it not knowing what it does - BoM proves it with Wax not knowing the coin is a medallion or that the spearhead is the Bands. Inquisitors would steal something that they didn't know what it does, and would have to figure it out by guessing "maybe its youth" to store in Atiummind.

If they were simply experimenting, Ruin could’ve let them know what their powers did after the fact. Or the Inquistors didn’t realize that particular limit and only Marsh could actually use F-Atium because he knew what it did.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Then, them not knowing would very likely mess up with the spiking process. They need to be very precise when spiking, as they are risking stealing something else, and intent is very important part of Hemalurgy. There are several binding points in the heart alone, they need to spike the correct one, they need to know what F-Atium does to do so. Not to mention they need to place it in a right spot on their body, there is likely a spot for general powers, like Atium spikes granting A-Atium go into the heart, but here again, intent might mess things up, and them not knowing what F-Atium does at all would mess thing up for sure. They can't just guess F-Atium is good, they need to know precisely what it does, as they're stealing it with Atium spike, otherwise they wouldn’t have had the precise intent needed for Hemalurgy.

In this scenario, the Inquistors know they are stealing F-Atium. They don’t know what that power actually does, but they intend to steal it specifically. I don’t know why you’re so confident they need to know what the power actually does. Sure, it might be more useful per intention. But it’s not like the Inquistors are thinking “I want to steal a metal that gives Feruchemical youth” and then get something random. They know which power they are stealing, even if they don’t know what it does. 

However, you do have a good point about bind points. Ruin would have to approve of that spiking, even if the Inquistors somehow knew the right bind points. But making F-Atium spikes uses up both Atium AND a Keeper. If Ruin thought F-Atium was genuinely useless, it’s a strange choice at best.

But that leaves a conundrum. We know for a fact that Inquistors got F-Atium at some point but we don’t have a good reason why. TLR wouldn’t place them for fear of Compounding. After that, Ruin is the one deciding what to give Inquisitors. But if Ruin allowed the spike, what did he hope to gain?

He doesn’t need Inquistors to have youth disguises. He could’ve kept some as long lasting tools in the Cosmere, but then it’s strange he didn’t arm Marsh. I know that you’ve suggested Reverse Compounding, but I’m not sure I see how that model works

Let me see if I can predict your model. If you wanted to reverse Compound Atium, you’d charge it with Investuture in the form of youth. Once you had the Atium mind, you would need to hack it so that the Atium mind is coded to give future sight and not youth. That would give you the Investiture of youth to fuel the atium

If so, you have a few issues. Some Inquisitors would have to make themselves crazy old: no Compounding allowed. That youth would have to do enough work to extend Atium in any meaningful way. And you’d need a hack to make the Feruchemical Investuture stop being youth. But remember, the Inquistors didn’t even know how to Compound regularly? How would they figure out reverse Compounding in any meaningful time? And how would that slightly longer Atium be any more useful than, I don’t know, Compounded steel? If Ruin could make reverse Compounding possible for some reason, why not regular Compounding? It’s not technically impossible but it is really weird. 
 

My alternative theory is this. In the time before Ruin broke free, the Inquistors were freely experimenting with Keepers. They had some idea of the Feruchemical metals and one may have assumed Atium would be good. Ruin didn’t want to play his hand for some reason. Maybe to be more subtle, maybe because he didn’t consider the Keeper a major loss, maybe because the Inquistors somehow figured out the bindpoint themselves. Regardless, Ruin allowed it. It’s not great, but there aren’t many other options.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Mistchemist16