Allomantic Alluminum vs Aluminum Wounds

[Trusk'our he/him]

We know that it is possible to beat almost all Invested healing methods by wounding someone with aluminum and leaving it in their body to prevent healing.

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Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Kurkistan

What would happen if you shot a thug with an aluminum bullet or stabbed him with an aluminum knife?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, that's a good question. The wound would not be able to heal around the aluminum, but once the aluminum came out and was gone from the system, they would be okay.

Kurkistan

Wait, is that a Bloodmaker, not a Thug?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, you're talking about Thugs?

It would work similarly, but it really wouldn't have a huge effect on them.

Kurkistan

Alright, because Peter was implying that there was some weird aluminum interaction with Thugs.

Brandon Sanderson

What was he thinking of...?

There is some weird interaction but...

Kurkistan

In the wedding scene, Wax thinks they would have aluminum bullets to deal with Thugs, and I was like, "Oh, that's a typo." And Peter was like, "Oh no it's not..."

Brandon Sanderson

No, no. That would just be-- it's like I said: healing it until the bullet is gone, it's just the same as Bloodmakers.

We also know that it is possible to burn metals that aren't swallowed but are in the flesh of the Allomancer.

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YouTube Livestream 10 - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Matthew Grady

Does a metal need to be swallowed to be burned? Or can it be injected or snorted?

Brandon Sanderson

It could be either of those two things. Yes. Basically, metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. There's nothing magical about the stomach, even though it works the best when we talk about it. It's just more intermixing the nature of the metal with your soul in the cosmere, your Spiritual entity, is what gives them that ability.

So if a Fullborn or some other Invested individual who had access to a healing power was pierced by aluminum and had it lodged in their body, they could burn away the aluminum to remove it and allow them to heal from their injuries. They would have to be careful though, as they would drain all other power they had at the time in their body.

[Quantus he/him]

Yes if it were just shoved into their body, No if it where done with Hemalurgic Intent and happened to hit a Bind Point, because that would shut down the Allomancy.

Side Note: Per WOB in Compounding the Aluminum would go away but there wouldnt be any effect.  This strongly implies that even Feruchemy and Hemalurgy dont actually Invest the Aluminum itself:

 

 

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Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

What would happen if a person were to burn a metal that was Feruchemically charged using Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect. The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does. in this case, say you were burning steel, you would just be massively speedy for a second, and wouldn't actually have the ability to push on anything Allomantically. Hope that answered the question. I get the concept, so if you need me to explain it differently, let me know and I'll try. Oh, the other thing I forgot is that this concept only works if it's a metal that you charged yourself. If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular Allomancy, and the Feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

If someone aluminum or duralumin burned the Feruchemically charged metals, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Basically the same thing as above, except with aluminum. Aluminum, they would just go away.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Quantus

[alder24]

Yeah, that's one way to remove aluminum from their body. Available only for Fullborn, Mistborn or Twinborn (A-aluminum, F-gold). But burning it when you're still fighting might not be the best idea, unless it's a lethal wound.

Edited March 20, 2023 by alder24

[StanLemon]

24 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Yes if it were just shoved into their body, No if it where done with Hemalurgic Intent and happened to hit a Bind Point, because that would shut down the Allomancy.

Side Note: Per WOB in Compounding the Aluminum would go away but there wouldnt be any effect.  This strongly implies that even Feruchemy and Hemalurgy dont actually Invest the Aluminum itself:

 

 

 

 

The way I interpret the end of that WoB, is that if you burn Aluminum normally, it'll wipe out your Investiture stores regardless of Feruchemical charge. It is admittedly vague which he's meaning though

[Quantus he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Yeah, that's one way to remove aluminum from their body. Available only for Fullborn, Mistborn or Twinborn (A-aluminum, F-gold). But burning it when you're still fighting might not be the best idea, unless it's a lethal wound.

That begs the question, with Allomancy being the only confirmed Investiture effect I can think of that actually manipulates Aluminum, are there any others?

• Soulcasting cant do it, even treating it as a blood poison or whatever, since it cant affect Aluminum. 
• Pewter and Gold cant do it while the aluminum is still present, and Regrowth also probably cant for the same reason.  At best they help you survive the battle-field surgery.
• Forgery may or may not have the same issue.  Ditto AonDor and all other Selish magics. 
  • Maybe a Selish potion that manipulated the surrounding flesh to force out the aluminum, then heal after?
• Awakening is off the table, but could a Divine Breath Healing remove aluminum shrapnel?  That's about as top-tier as we've seen in terms of powerful healing magics.   

EDIT:

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

The way I interpret the end of that WoB, is that if you burn Aluminum normally, it'll wipe out your Investiture stores regardless of Feruchemical charge. It is admittedly vague which he's meaning though

That's also a fair read of it, given the compounding context of the WOB. I want to say there's another WOB that supports the "no actual Charge"  interpretation but I cant seem to find it. 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Quantus

[alder24]

40 minutes ago, Quantus said:

That begs the question, with Allomancy being the only confirmed Investiture effect I can think of that actually manipulates Aluminum, are there any others?

• Soulcasting cant do it, even treating it as a blood poison or whatever, since it cant affect Aluminum. 
• Pewter and Gold cant do it while the aluminum is still present, and Regrowth also probably cant for the same reason.  At best they help you survive the battle-field surgery.
• Forgery may or may not have the same issue.  Ditto AonDor and all other Selish magics. 
  • Maybe a Selish potion that manipulated the surrounding flesh to force out the aluminum, then heal after?
• Awakening is off the table, but could a Divine Breath Healing remove aluminum shrapnel?  That's about as top-tier as we've seen in terms of powerful healing magics.   

That's an interesting topic. You can't forge Aluminum, so Forgery is off the table. Even brutally reverse lashing aluminum out of the body isn't possible. I don't even think even Divine Breath healing can remove aluminum, it would likely heal around it as well, and at best make the body function around it (maybe in a way that Hemalurgy changes body to accommodate spikes?).

However Kandra can physically remove it - in BoM MeLaan sealed Marasi wound and remove toxins from it, so I think Kandra can easily grab it and pull it out of the body. Likely skilled Soulcaster could soulcast a small portion of the body into smoke to make removal of aluminum easier, either by muscles pushing it out, or by physically grabbing it and pulling it. But both of these options are like normal surgery, not magical healing. Sadly, normal surgery might be the only other alternative which could help remove aluminum from the body.

Spoiler

Argent

On Nalthis, can aluminum prevent somebody from Returning? So if you kill somebody with aluminum and leave the weapon in them?

Brandon Sanderson

I don't think that's going to be enough. I think that…

Argent

Different way then?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah there are totally ways. I don’t think that that’s going to be enough. There's a difference between being inert and blocking Investiture, and actually sucking out Investiture. If you stuck Nightblood inside of a corpse; there are certain things… if you had a larkin or whatever sitting there that ingests the Investiture as it was coming in, that would prevent [Returning]. I think with aluminum you would just have somebody that comes alive with a wound, so maybe... But I think it would just heal around [the aluminum] and you'd just have a spike in you, kind of like Hemalurgy—but not like Hemalurgy. It's inert, but you know what I mean.

Argent

Which suggests you can't actually Awaken aluminum.

Brandon Sanderson

No. It's not going to hold a charge.

Kurkistan

I assume you can't Forge it, either.

Brandon Sanderson

No. In fact the unForgable metal-

Argent

Ralkalest?

Brandon Sanderson

There's an unForgeable metal mentioned.

Kurkistan

Could we call it aluminum if we wanted to?

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say that aluminum through most cultures was considered a mythological metal, and when people could actually find some, they considered it more valuable than gold, in our culture. So just sayin'...

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

 

[Stick The Savant]

since aluminum stops healing around the area, would It not be logical to assume that it might affect other internal metals such as not allowing metals like a-pewter, a-tin, f-iron, to affect the area directly around the aluminum?