HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? Posted March 3, 2023 Posted March 3, 2023 A question often posed is why heralds refuse to wear shardplate. I think I've found the answer. We see how shardplate is resistant to surge and void binding. This is because as a god metal, it is so saturated with investiture as to resist other forms of investiture. Interestingly it also blocks other forms of investiture, such as emotional allomancy. Quote BasakaIsTheStrongest Does Shardplate provide protection against emotional Allomancy? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Don't dismiss your helmet when you're around an Allomancer. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) We've known for a while that heralds did not need to carry gemstones, which is presumable because honor is channeling investiture into their bodies through their honorblade bond, similar to how bondsmiths "Create" powerlight So heralds don't wear plate so that they can receive investiture directly from honor(placed presumably in the sky) Quote Steeldancer The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? Brandon Sanderson Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. Steeldancer Like Vin and Elend? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do. Steeldancer The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson RAFO Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017) Additionally, it might actually kill them. We see from Jezrien that heralds die rapidly when their soul is separated from the physical world. Theirfore this level of investiture insulation could slowly starve a herald of their divine essence 2
Quantus he/him Posted March 3, 2023 Posted March 3, 2023 It's not that Heralds "Dont Where Plate" (necessarily), it's that Honorblades dont Grant Plate. Or Squires, but that's another topic. So for a Herald to get their own set of Plate, one that would match their Identity and allow their surges to pass, they'd need to Bond a Spren and swear the Ideals. The only one we know of that has done that has chosen not to. He might have a strategy like not wanting to let knowledge of his bond get out, but then he's also kinda crazy... 6
Heilven he/him Posted March 3, 2023 Posted March 3, 2023 3 hours ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said: A question often posed is why heralds refuse to wear shardplate. I think I've found the answer. We see how shardplate is resistant to surge and void binding. This is because as a god metal, it is so saturated with investiture as to resist other forms of investiture. Interestingly it also blocks other forms of investiture, such as emotional allomancy. We've known for a while that heralds did not need to carry gemstones, which is presumable because honor is channeling investiture into their bodies through their honorblade bond, similar to how bondsmiths "Create" powerlight So heralds don't wear plate so that they can receive investiture directly from honor(placed presumably in the sky) Additionally, it might actually kill them. We see from Jezrien that heralds die rapidly when their soul is separated from the physical world. Theirfore this level of investiture insulation could slowly starve a herald of their divine essence I never even thought about it, but I think you are right. However, I imagine that the whole emotional allomancy part comes with a caveat, that being that someone sufficiently powerful could *probably* push through it. I think this would be a ludicrous amount of power, similar to what would be needed to push or pull on shardplate, but still, I think honor would qualify. Meaning I don't think they would stop being connected to Honor while wearing shardplate, but maybe the connection weakens? It could be painful or otherwise uncomfortable, which would certainly push them away from it. Ah actually I though about it and I think this is unlikely. If shardplate actively resists all investiture, radiants would have a hard time using it since they wouldn't be able to breath in stormlight from outside of the plate. And they wouldn't be able to lash things, or use just about any of their powers while wearing plate, since they would need to get stormlight from in them into something else. I'm not saying I'm definitely right, but I think it's worth a consideration that perhaps the wearer can control what investiture can get through and what can't. So an allomancer couldn't push on them with emotional allomancy, but honor could give investiture through plate. Or maybe not, since radiants clearly don't have active control, we know a windrunner can't lash a fellow radiant through plate. So maybe I just don't know. 3 hours ago, Quantus said: It's not that Heralds "Dont Where Plate" (necessarily), it's that Honorblades dont Grant Plate. Or Squires, but that's another topic. So for a Herald to get their own set of Plate, one that would match their Identity and allow their surges to pass, they'd need to Bond a Spren and swear the Ideals. The only one we know of that has done that has chosen not to. He might have a strategy like not wanting to let knowledge of his bond get out, but then he's also kinda crazy... This is definitely a second explanation, but I don't think it explains why nale actively chooses not to wear plate. Although we don't necessarily know that that's true, I don't think we see him fighting a real battle ever. Otherwise, it may simply be that he has no real experience fighting in plate since he spent his career without it.
Wandering Shade Posted March 26, 2023 Posted March 26, 2023 On 3/3/2023 at 10:05 AM, Quantus said: It's not that Heralds "Dont Where Plate" (necessarily), it's that Honorblades dont Grant Plate. Or Squires, but that's another topic. To quickly divert to this topic, I think that's relatively simple. The Honorblades were made before Plate and Squires were thought of, and they weren't altered to provide them after Plate and Squires were around. On 3/3/2023 at 1:43 PM, Heilven said: I never even thought about it, but I think you are right. However, I imagine that the whole emotional allomancy part comes with a caveat, that being that someone sufficiently powerful could *probably* push through it. I think this would be a ludicrous amount of power, similar to what would be needed to push or pull on shardplate, but still, I think honor would qualify. Meaning I don't think they would stop being connected to Honor while wearing shardplate, but maybe the connection weakens? It could be painful or otherwise uncomfortable, which would certainly push them away from it. Oh actually I though about it and I think this is unlikely. If shardplate actively resists all investiture, radiants would have a hard time using it since they wouldn't be able to breath in stormlight from outside of the plate. And they wouldn't be able to lash things, or use just about any of their powers while wearing plate, since they would need to get stormlight from in them into something else. I'm not saying I'm definitely right, but I think it's worth a consideration that perhaps the wearer can control what investiture can get through and what can't. So an allomancer couldn't push on them with emotional allomancy, but honor could give investiture through plate. Or maybe not, since radiants clearly don't have active control, we know a windrunner can't lash a fellow radiant through plate. So maybe I just don't know. Shardplate resists all foreign Investiture, even Stormlight if its coming from someone else. They can still breathe in Stormlight, but that seems like a purposefully engineered exception that wouldn't apply to the way that Heralds gain Investiture from Honor. So a Herald wearing Plate would partially resist their Investiture gain from Honor, and that's not worth it when physical wounds mean literally nothing to them already. Plate isn't giving them any benefits they don't already have, aside from a resistance to Lashings and such which they might have just from being a Herald, we don't know.
NameIess Posted March 26, 2023 Posted March 26, 2023 5 hours ago, Wandering Shade said: To quickly divert to this topic, I think that's relatively simple. The Honorblades were made before Plate and Squires were thought of, and they weren't altered to provide them after Plate and Squires were around. Shardplate resists all foreign Investiture, even Stormlight if its coming from someone else. They can still breathe in Stormlight, but that seems like a purposefully engineered exception that wouldn't apply to the way that Heralds gain Investiture from Honor. So a Herald wearing Plate would partially resist their Investiture gain from Honor, and that's not worth it when physical wounds mean literally nothing to them already. Plate isn't giving them any benefits they don't already have, aside from a resistance to Lashings and such which they might have just from being a Herald, we don't know. I don’t think that Plate works that way. It acts as a barrier to foreign investiture, not a Connection barrier. It doesn’t block a Radiant’s connection to their spren, so it shouldn’t block a somewhat similar Connection from Honor. 2
ScavellTane Posted March 26, 2023 Posted March 26, 2023 Shardplates are actually not of Honor perhaps.
alder24 Posted March 26, 2023 Posted March 26, 2023 28 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: Shardplates are actually not of Honor perhaps. Shardplates, like Shardblades, are a mixture of Honor and Cultivation's investiture, in the form of a god metal alloy. They are not purely of Honor, but still partially, so there shouldn't be any problem with that, as Honor and Cultivation work together forming spren, Nahel Bond etc. Spoiler FireyWoodedHill Is Shardplate made of the same material as Shardblades? Is there a difference in material between a "dead" Shardblade and a living one? Brandon Sanderson You can generally look at all three as being the same material. Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018) Spoiler Alpharho The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals? Brandon Sanderson No, but good question. Alpharho Are all orders the same alloy, essentially? Brandon Sanderson Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy. Alpharho So, different proportions of tanavastium? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to. Alpharho Would you say different ratios of the same two metals? Brandon Sanderson Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing. Alpharho But you won't say what that thing is called? Brandon Sanderson No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant. Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018) 1
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