Simple question about Hemalurgic tin

[Mistchemist16]

We know Feruchemical Tin can store Allomantic senses like Bronze

NewbSombrero

Can Feruchemical tin store Allomantically granted senses like bronze sense?

Brandon Sanderson

Possible.

General Signed Books 2018 (Feb. 8, 2018)

Theoretically, Hemalurgic tin should store all the same things as F-Tin. So if you had proper Intent, could you spike the bronze sense out of an Allomancer burning bronze? If you did, would the recipient of that spike have permanently renewing bronze sense, much like regular kandra blessings (including Tin), or would it have a limited duration because the bronze wasn’t a natural sense?

[Treamayne]

55 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

We know Feruchemical Tin can store Allomantic senses like Bronze

 

Spoiler

NewbSombrero

Can Feruchemical tin store Allomantically granted senses like bronze sense?

Brandon Sanderson

Possible.

General Signed Books 2018 (Feb. 8, 2018)

Theoretically, Hemalurgic tin should store all the same things as F-Tin. So if you had proper Intent, could you spike the bronze sense out of an Allomancer burning bronze? If you did, would the recipient of that spike have permanently renewing bronze sense, much like regular kandra blessings (including Tin), or would it have a limited duration because the bronze wasn’t a natural sense?

Just to be clear, you are talking about a Tin Spike, not a Steel spike with A-Tin or a Pewter Spike with F-Tin. Correct?

If yes, then you should note that the HoA Ars Arcanum specifically says that Tin stores "human senses." Though, that could be an incorrect or incomplete understanding from that time (or Harmony obfuscating Hemalurgy).

A Ferring storing Bronze Sense would need to have actual A-Bronze that is being stored, so their Spiritweb is "Connected" to the sense that Bronze creates. I think, for Hemalurgy, you would need an H-Seeker spike to use a Tin Spike with Bronze Sense stolen (assuming the idea that is steals all five human senses is incorrect - or that Intent can change that parameter). Otherwise, the Tin Spike has a sense that your Spiritweb isn't Connected to and doesn't understand.

[alder24]

Hmm that may be possible if tin spikes can store more than human senses. I believe it would make Seeker much weaker, but he will still be able to burn bronze, as you didn't remove his ability to burn bronze, only his sense. At very best, Seeker would be able to burn bronze but it would give him no effect and no sense at all, as you removed that, at worse, it's just temporary, as you take just the bit of investiture he gained by burning bronze, so he would be weaker or "blinded" for a short moment, but later he could use it as he used to use it - and you would gain temporary amount of bronze sense, fueled by investiture in the spike which would eventually run out. But these are just my wild speculations.

[Mistchemist16]

14 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Just to be clear, you are talking about a Tin Spike, not a Steel spike with A-Tin or a Pewter Spike with F-Tin. Correct?

If yes, then you should note that the HoA Ars Arcanum specifically says that Tin stores "human senses." Though, that could be an incorrect or incomplete understanding from that time (or Harmony obfuscating Hemalurgy).

A Ferring storing Bronze Sense would need to have actual A-Bronze that is being stored, so their Spiritweb is "Connected" to the sense that Bronze creates. I think, for Hemalurgy, you would need an H-Seeker spike to use a Tin Spike with Bronze Sense stolen (assuming the idea that is steals all five human senses is incorrect - or that Intent can change that parameter). Otherwise, the Tin Spike has a sense that your Spiritweb isn't Connected to and doesn't understand.

You are correct. I am talking about a spike made of tin.

As for the human senses part, I think the problem has more to do with what’s permanently yours. Everything Hemalurgic takes is a natural ability coded on your soul. Which means you should still be able to steal a platypus’s electric field sense if you wanted (an innate ability). But taking Allomancy would be trickier because the power “remembers” that it really belongs to Preservation. I don’t quite know where Feruchemy falls, since the Investiture still belongs to the Feruchemist. But the analogy would be that if your soul is a power cord carrying electricity (attributes) from the Spiritual Realm, then  Feruchemy is filling a new battery and using that.

Honestly, I don’t think having a Seeker ability would do the trick. The better bet would be to find a Twinborn who can use A-Bronze and F-Tin. If you spike them while they are tapping, then the power should be filtered to more closely resemble a proper sense.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[IlstrawberrySeed]

There was a WoB that said Hemalurgic spikes cannot steal what is granted by a hemalurgic spike, but can steal what is granted by a hemalurgic spike. He then used the example of H-T stealing stealsight granted by H-A-S. I'll try to find it.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

It seems plausible to me that you could, since we know because of TLM that (unless it specifically a side-effect of having a spike in your eye) you can gain permanent Inquisitor-like steelsight without needing to burn Iron/Steel, so permanently having Bronze sense is hardly outlandish, although it might take a bit more fiddling to achieve than just spiking it out of a Seeker burning Bronze.