Reluur's spikes and contemplations about Hemalurgy

[Frustration]

Yeah yeah yeah. "Frustration, another topic?"

Look this Arcanum rabbit hole is interesting, I'm sorry.

 

So anyway, I found this particular WoB

Spoiler

Zas678

About Bands of Mourning... Marasi finds ReLuur's missing spike, and she describes it as pewter... Which is not one of the four metals conventionally used in kandra blessings...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Zas678

...and is used to steal Feruchemical abilities. Was Marasi just mistaken, or is something going on there.

Brandon Sanderson

That you will eventually find out.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/7/#e7081

 

 

 

 

And it got me thinking, I highly doubt that those are feruchemical powers granted by those spikes, as Reluur is third generation, so his blessings came from TLR, and he wouldn't have wasted feruchemical spikes like that.

So, that left me with one conclusion. Reluur's pewter spikes were changed with regular people. Thinking about it more I realized that there isn't any reason why that shouldn't work, the only question is what it would steal.

[TheSurvivorofDeath]

It's difficult to say. Maybe it's possible to steal something else with a metal, but that seems unlikely. Perhaps TLR did give some of his kandra feruchemy but didn't tell them? Perhaps Reluur switched spikes at one point, or took an extra pair like TenSoon. There are many possibilities as to why he has these unique spikes.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, TheSurvivorofDeath said:

It's difficult to say. Maybe it's possible to steal something else with a metal, but that seems unlikely. Perhaps TLR did give some of his kandra feruchemy but didn't tell them? Perhaps Reluur switched spikes at one point, or took an extra pair like TenSoon. There are many possibilities as to why he has these unique spikes.

You can steal more with one spike than just what was said on hemaurgic table. It all depends on the Intent and where the spike was placed.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

The Mechanism of Hemalurgy

The Blessings and the workings of Hemalurgy gave me some trouble as I designed the second and third books of this series. On one hand, I liked the way Hemalurgy worked by stealing powers from Allomancers or Feruchemists and giving them to other people. However, if I was going to limit myself to sixteen metals and be able to steal both Allomancy and Feruchemy, that meant I needed a mechanism to determine which power got stolen. If, for instance, you drove a pewter spike into a person who was both an Allomancer and a Feruchemist, then how would that spike know which power to suck out and grant to the one who would gain it?

As I was toying with how this would work, I realized that I needed to work the kandra and the koloss into this as well. Only, it was ridiculous to assume that the Lord Ruler would kill Allomancers to make koloss. There weren't enough Allomancers, for one thing—plus it would be foolish to lose the power of an Allomancer to gain an inferior tool in a koloss.

So that meant koloss had to be made out of regular people, not Allomancers or Feruchemists. Suddenly I had another set of abilities that Hemalurgy had to be able to steal—the basic pieces of Preservation inside the souls of all men.

Hence the decision that where the spike was placed in the receiver, and how it was used to kill a person, influenced how the power was shaped. Now a pewter spike could steal any of a number of powers, based on how it was used. And regular people could be used instead of Allomancers—however, when that happened, the receiver was twisted much more than if an Allomantically charged spike or a Feruchemically charged spike was used.

My rationale for this is that if the spike is pulling out the pure power of Preservation—part of the power of all creation—and twisting it, it would change the body of the recipient greatly. Twisting them through use of the twisted power.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 17, 2009)

 

Spoiler

Aerlion

Is it possible to use Hemalurgic spikes to steal multiple attributes from the same person?

Brandon Sanderson

No. At least, this isn't thought to be possible

General Signed Books 2018 (March 20, 2018)

 

I guess because of absences of new spikes to create new generations Kandra started to experiment on their own, and apparently succeeded. However ReLuur belongs to the third generation so it is very possible that it was TLR experiments and he gave new Blessings to a selected few. What would pewter do, I have no idea, iron gives Blessing of strength, so I doubt pewter would do the same.

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:08 AM, Frustration said:

So, that left me with one conclusion. Reluur's pewter spikes were changed with regular people. Thinking about it more I realized that there isn't any reason why that shouldn't work, the only question is what it would steal.

TLM spoilers

Spoiler

We see in TLM that you can fill a Hemalurgic spike that is meant to be used with Invested powers with Investiture from a non-Allomancer. They haven't yet figured out how to reliably make powers with them yet, but it's possible that the Investiture in the spikes could be used to create a functional Kandra Blessing, though there may not be a "perk" provided by such spikes, just sapience.

 

[cometaryorbit]

Maybe they're not really pewter. Maybe they're a lerasium-pewter alloy or atium-pewter alloy from TLR's experimentation.

There were probably lerasium beads not accounted for. Maybe TLR took the others and experimented with them.

I would tend to think that using a pewter spike on someone without Physical Feruchemy powers would not steal anything - there's no valid power to steal, so the spike would just make a mundane (presumably fatal) wound without affecting the spiritweb, and no charge would end up in the spike.

Edited February 17, 2023 by cometaryorbit

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:36 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Maybe they're not really pewter. Maybe they're a lerasium-pewter alloy or atium-pewter alloy from TLR's experimentation.

There were probably lerasium beads not accounted for. Maybe TLR took the others and experimented with them.

I highly doubt it.

Only a handful of beads were ever made, and it was done so by Leras himself. The Lord Ruler left two at the Well of Acsension for unknown reasons. If he was going to experiment with them, it feels weird that two would be left completely untouched.

Quote

Words of Radiance Seattle signing - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

How were the original beads of Lerasium created?

Brandon Sanderson

They were created for the purpose that they were originally used for.

Questioner

Who created them?

Brandon Sanderson

They were created by Leras.

Quote

The Hero of Ages Annotations - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Brandon Sanderson

The First Noblemen Weren't Rashek's Friends

I'm curious to know if anyone figured out the logical problem with the Terrismen becoming nobility. It's what everyone assumed, and it's been mentioned in the previous books. Everyone knows that the Lord Ruler made his friends into Allomancers.

Only, he didn't. That's simply a fabrication he allowed to continue as rumor, then become fact, so that he could cover up the origins of the kandra. The men who became the first Allomancers were actually foreign kings. Rashek knew that he could conquer the world if he needed to—but he also knew that it would be a lot easier to rule that conquered world if he had allies and kingdoms who joined him out of desire, not out of fear. So, he offered Allomancy to the royal families who would give their allegiance to him. Once he showed off his own power as a Mistborn, he managed to get several important monarchs to throw their weight behind him. They got to be Allomancers.

 

On 2/17/2023 at 5:36 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I would tend to think that using a pewter spike on someone without Physical Feruchemy powers would not steal anything - there's no valid power to steal, so the spike would just make a mundane (presumably fatal) wound without affecting the spiritweb, and no charge would end up in the spike.

TLM spoilers...

Spoiler

We see in TLM that you can charge a Hemalurgic spike intended to be used to excise Invested powers with non-powered individuals. The Investiture is kind of wonky at the moment though, as it doesn't seem to be programmed to any specific power. Identity contamination almost certainly plays a role as well.

 

[Atlas333]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:36 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Maybe they're not really pewter. 

What if Marasi just identified it wrong?

She says 

Quote

Such a small thing, and so clean, a shining sliver of... pewter was it?

Later, she describes it as a "silvery metal."

To me, she seems unsure. I would trust Marasi to identify most metals (this is Scadrial after all), but maybe it's not one she's seen in person, or at least not that often. Maybe there are more blessings than just the ones we know.

Quote

InsurrectionistFungus

Are there more kinds of kandra blessings than just the four we've seen?

Brandon Sanderson

Potentially, yes.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

The trend we've seen with kandra blessings is that they have to be pure metals. If that pattern holds and it's not one of the four we know, it could be either cadmium, chromium, aluminum, or gold. I think it's safe to say it isn't gold, and I feel like Marasi would be able to identify cadmium (her metal) and aluminum (incredibly valuable). Process of elimination suggests that it was chromium, which "might steal destiny." I think that's basically the same thing as stealing fortune, but in Mistborn Era 1 terms.

Fortune/luck is a topic not well understood at this point, but it seems a fitting attribute for a kandra that found a long-lost relic. 

 

Edited January 14 by Atlas333
Added a WoB

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

I'd like to bring your attention to this WOB.

Spoiler

PhantomMonstrosity

Could you steal any trait Hemalurgically that can be stored Feruchemically?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could steal any trait that can be stored.

I'd like to take a wild guess at what a Pewter Blessing would do. It would grant Health to a Kandra.

I say this entirely because of the irony, because back when Mistborn had first come out, it was thought that pewter spikes stole Feruchemical Gold, which granted the Steel Inquisitor's their 'Healing Spike'.

In this case, a pewter Blessing would be a more mild but constant effect, similar to what Miles Hundredlives experienced just from tapping some health without having any injuries to heal. It would greatly increase a Kandra's ability to recover from exhaustion and injury to the same level, perhaps greater, than a Pewterarm, though nowhere near what a Bloodmaker could do. It would synergize well with a Kandra's ridiculous levels of toughness.

Some ideas I have for other metals if you care to read.

Spoiler

Brass: Passion or Sensation, a polar opposite to Zinc's Emotional Fortitude would be the ability to feel more emotion. In effect it would be like a permanent drug, with your emotions constantly being rioted and enhanced. Happiness would become bliss, frustration would become a near murderous rage, etc. Wouldn't be terribly useful on Scadrial, in fact it would leave you even more vulnerable to being controlled Hemalurgically. Could be used as an interrogation tool? Spike someone with Brass to psychologically torture them?

Steel: I don't want to say speed, but I really can't think of anything else. Maybe something like reflexes or something?

Bronze: Not super sure, I don't think that the Attributes would be one-to-one with their Feruchemically attributes.