Fate Shard

[ctonicmenace]

In the beginning of the chapter 48, The Nightmare, Hoid is talking about the difficulties the Crow's Song is going through and he says this:

Quote

But if ever there were proof that Fate herself had placed along oods againts the Crow's Song, it would be...

We know that realmatic concepts are capitalized, specially Shards' names. We also know that we don't know the Intent of the last of the sixteen. Could it be Fate?

Some of the problems of this theory is that, according to WoB in the Stuttgart signing in 2019, one of the remaining unknown (at the time) Shards' Intent is along the lines of Wisdom or Prudence. None of the known shards fit that, I think. Maybe Invention? And I think the fifteenth Shard has already been revealed.

Spoiler

Which is Virtuosity. There's actually a thread postulating that Virtuosity is the Wisdom Shard.

Another point is that Hoid says "Fate herself". So he was speaking about a person, and I would think that a Shard would be a great fit for such a monumental concept. Of course, he could be anthropomorphizing Fortune.

What do you guys think?

[lacrossedeamon]

Fate if anything sounds more like a Dawnshard (unless they are actually all verbs) than a Shard (although I could see it being a combined Shard name) but I think he’s just anthropomorphizing Fate/Fortune as a concept. 

[MGershone]

I'm pretty sure that the shard on Lumar is Whimsy, because at one point, for no apparent reason, Tress is described as suddenly having a feeling of whimsy. In the past, Ive also seen theories around here that Whimsy is the opposite Shard of Autonomy, so I think this is Brandon hinting to number 16 being Whimsy 

[RaeTheRaven]

I'm not too sure Lumar has a shard at all though. Hoid calls it an unimportant backwater of the Cosmere. And the Lumarans have stories of "people from the stars" so that suggests to me that any worldhoppers didn't arrive there through a perpendicularity. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by RaeTheRaven

[Argenti he/him]

On 1/21/2023 at 7:43 PM, MGershone said:

I'm pretty sure that the shard on Lumar is Whimsy, because at one point, for no apparent reason, Tress is described as suddenly having a feeling of whimsy. In the past, Ive also seen theories around here that Whimsy is the opposite Shard of Autonomy, so I think this is Brandon hinting to number 16 being Whimsy 

Lumar does not have a shard.

[MGershone]

On 3/24/2023 at 7:00 PM, Argenti said:

Lumar does not have a shard.

well that's awkward. Do we know how the aethers migrated there? were they naturally occurring despite the lack of shard or did somebody cause it to happen?

[Argenti he/him]

12 minutes ago, MGershone said:

well that's awkward. Do we know how the aethers migrated there? were they naturally occurring despite the lack of shard or did somebody cause it to happen?

They definitely migrated, no ideas how though.

[alder24]

44 minutes ago, MGershone said:

well that's awkward. Do we know how the aethers migrated there? were they naturally occurring despite the lack of shard or did somebody cause it to happen?

Aethers are not of Shards. They predate the Shattering of Adonalsium, and are not even of Adonalsium's power as well. No Shard presence is necessary for Aethers to exist on any planet. Aethers on Lumar migrated there, but they are some parasitic strain of Aethers, unique/different from the others. WoB:

Spoiler

ChromatiCaos

You said that all Investiture got assigned to a Shard when Adonalsium got Shattered, which Investiture do the Dawnshards draw from? What about the aethers?

Brandon Sanderson

Dawnshards and aethers both predate the Shattering, and the rules don't apply to them.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

Spoiler

Bumtown1

Is Adonalsium a unique being or are—were—there others?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! The aethers would say that there were lots. That there's like a bunch of aethers and Adonalsium. That they were co-equals. The aethers would say there were lots of them.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

Edit:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

[...]

The aethers are not from her planet; they are somewhere else. And dragon's not from her planet.

[...]

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by alder24

[MGershone]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Brandon Sanderson

Dawnshards and aethers both predate the Shattering, and the rules don't apply to them.

Hooray! No rules! Also, does the parasitic nature mean that normal Aethers have some source of Investiture that Lumar's moons don't have access to? If so, why do they feed off of water and what does that tell us about Aethers in general?

[alder24]

22 minutes ago, MGershone said:

Hooray! No rules!

Yes rules! Just normal Shard's rules don't apply to them, they have their own sets of rules.  

Quote

Also, does the parasitic nature mean that normal Aethers have some source of Investiture that Lumar's moons don't have access to? If so, why do they feed off of water and what does that tell us about Aethers in general?

No idea. Aethers themself are investiture, and are sapient. All of them fed on water, not just Lumar strain. But normal Aethers can be also fed with investiture, not just water, Lumar however is a world devoid of easily accessible investiture, so water is the only option there, but if someone had investiture he might be able to feed them with it (maybe that's why Riina was controlling Midnight Essence, feeding them with AonDor instead of water). But we don't know yet why Lumar's Aethers are so parasitic unlike the others. In general, you give Aethers water/investiture in exchange for control over them, like control over Midnight Essence, or like what Spore Eaters are doing. Normal Aethers don't create Spore Eaters, they have Aetherbound who have far greater control over Aethers who don't want to kill them. This seems to be a more symbiotic relation than a parasitic one.

Edit: Did you read TLM?

Edited April 2, 2023 by alder24

[MGershone]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Yes rules! Just normal Shard's rules don't apply to them, they have their own sets of rules.  

No idea. Aethers themself are investiture, and are sapient. All of them fed on water, not just Lumar strain. But normal Aethers can be also fed with investiture, not just water, Lumar however is a world devoid of easily accessible investiture, so water is the only option there, but if someone had investiture he might be able to feed them with it (maybe that's why Riina was controlling Midnight Essence, feeding them with AonDor instead of water). But we don't know yet why Lumar's Aethers are so parasitic unlike the others. In general, you give Aethers water/investiture in exchange for control over them, like control over Midnight Essence, or like what Spore Eaters are doing. Normal Aethers don't create Spore Eaters, they have Aetherbound who have far greater control over Aethers who don't want to kill them. This seems to be a more symbiotic relation than a parasitic one.

Edit: Did you read TLM?

Yes, I have, and I see what you're pointing out.

Another weird aspect of Lumar's Aethers that might factor in is the moons thing. There's something up in the sky producing humongous numbers of these Aether-infused spores that are falling onto Lumar. Given that they're called spores, is it possible that the whatever-it-is is organic, and the spores are parasitic because they're literally seeds that are trying to grow?

[alder24]

42 minutes ago, MGershone said:

Another weird aspect of Lumar's Aethers that might factor in is the moons thing. There's something up in the sky producing humongous numbers of these Aether-infused spores that are falling onto Lumar. Given that they're called spores, is it possible that the whatever-it-is is organic, and the spores are parasitic because they're literally seeds that are trying to grow?

The spores are Aethers as well. On moons most of Aethers reside, those are Prime Aethers, and they're producing spores which are falling down on Lumar as a means to propagate themself and gain water. It's not that the spores alone are parasitic, it's just that all Aethers on Lumar's moon are parasitic, who focus extensively on propagating themself onto Lumar and gaining as much water as they can from it. It's mostly visible with Spore Eaters, which are created instead of Aetherbound like everywhere else.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Now they aren’t of shards, but that doesn’t mean that their investiture is not currently being held by a shard. Personally, I think it is very likely that a shard has dominion over the Aethers (probably not Dominion tho), but they didn’t necessarily make them. 
 

The spores and planet itself gives very strong Autonomy vibes, but given that they reside on the other side of the Cosmere, I’m not 100% sure that they would hold them at the moment. Maybe an avatar of some sort?

[Argenti he/him]

As far as we know the Aethers are their own kind of investiture, beholden to no one. Most investiture was assigned to a shard, but probably not all. We know Investure can be striped of connection and intent, so why couldn't this happen by an act of Ado?

[darrlau]

I hadn't gotten my hands on this book yet but now I may have to. 

[Scars of Hathsin he/him]

It could be Fate, maybe, because she realises hiding won't change what is coming maybe?, and has decided to try and do something about what is happening now?