A question about Atium feruchemy

[Friendshipspren he/him]

If anyone can burn pure Atium to get it's allomantic effect , can anyone store youth in Atium too ? 

[Frustration he/him]

Anyone can burn pure atium, I'd imagine it's the same with feruchemy.

[Tglassy]

CAN anyone burn pure atium?  Burning a metal is a feature of Lerasium, as it makes you a Mistborn.  But assuming anyone can burn Pure Atium would assume anyone can burn Honorblades, or Shardblades, as aren't they the same basic thing?  

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

1 hour ago, Tglassy said:

CAN anyone burn pure atium?  Burning a metal is a feature of Lerasium, as it makes you a Mistborn.  But assuming anyone can burn Pure Atium would assume anyone can burn Honorblades, or Shardblades, as aren't they the same basic thing?  

We don't know 100% how pure Atium works as (almost) all the Atium we've seen used in the books is the alloy of Electrum and Atium.

However, if we use that as a example, then God Metal alloys can't be burned by anyone that isn't a Mistborn. Since the Shardblades are alloys of Honor and Cultivation, I'd imagine that would be why. Plus, there's sentient Investiture present due to the spren, which would possibly interfere as well. 

The Honorblades though (assuming that they are purely Tanavastium) possibly could be burned by anyone. Although they'd need to have the correct Intent, which the Rosharans wouldn't have at the present time. 

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

9 hours ago, Friendshipspren said:

If anyone can burn pure Atium to get it's allomantic effect , can anyone store youth in Atium too ? 

Perhaps, though it might be tricky as Feruchemy itself is a mixture of both Preservation and Ruin. Maybe you'd need to consume both Lerasium and Atium first. 

Found this WOB which might be helpful:

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Yoitsthew

Would a Lerasium/Atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020)

 

[Frustration he/him]

4 hours ago, Tglassy said:

CAN anyone burn pure atium?  Burning a metal is a feature of Lerasium, as it makes you a Mistborn.  But assuming anyone can burn Pure Atium would assume anyone can burn Honorblades, or Shardblades, as aren't they the same basic thing?  

At the very least any Scadrian can. I don't think they could burn Honorblades as they lack a Connection to Honor.

[Mraize's Lost Aviar]

Hoid could probably burn both pure atium and the honor blades because he's connected enough to both Scadrial and Roshar

[SpinningSky he/him]

So we should specify, not anyone can burn Atium to get its allomantic effect. Anyone can burn pure Atium to get it's god-metal effect, which we don't know what it is.
Only mistborn and Seers can burn Nalatium (alloy of pure Atium called "Atium" on Scadrial) to get the Allomatic power.

God metals can be burned by anybody, it doesn't have anything to do with allomancy or feurochemy or Scadrial, at least that's the way I understand it. It's just a way to access the Shard's investiture.

I think using a metal as a metal mind is something different and you have to be a feurochemist to do so I doubt it's possible for others. Plus we don't know if you can actually store youth in pure Atium

[Tglassy]

9 hours ago, SpinningSky said:

So we should specify, not anyone can burn Atium to get its allomantic effect. Anyone can burn pure Atium to get it's god-metal effect, which we don't know what it is.
Only mistborn and Seers can burn Nalatium (alloy of pure Atium called "Atium" on Scadrial) to get the Allomatic power.

God metals can be burned by anybody, it doesn't have anything to do with allomancy or feurochemy or Scadrial, at least that's the way I understand it. It's just a way to access the Shard's investiture.

I think using a metal as a metal mind is something different and you have to be a feurochemist to do so I doubt it's possible for others. Plus we don't know if you can actually store youth in pure Atium

If I were theorycrafting, I would say that no, burning metals is a property of Lerasium and Preservation's power.  It's why Lerasium can be burned by anyone.  

Ruin's power is Hemalurgy.  So pure Atium wouldn't be able to be burned.  It would be to steal.  Which...maybe is why an Atium Spike can steal any ability?  It could be burned by a Mistborn, because that's their thing, but to everyone else, it would just be the ultimate Hemalurgic Spike.  

Honorblades would then work differently.  A Mistborn could burn them, as that's their thing.  And they SHOULD have a Hemalurgic function (that's scary).  But they'd also have their own 'thing'.  Which is probably "Touching this gives you surges".  Honor.  Bindings.  It binds with you without needing to be burned.  You just get the power.  

Spren blades, being both Honor and cultivation, would be different.  Maybe their "thing" is they can change form and be alive.  it's giving life to Honor's Blades.  There's also the bond to think about, which gives power, but adding Life to that power gives it a will, and thus, the Oaths can gatekeep the power.  But a Mistborn...a Mistborn should be able to burn a sprenblade.  THAT's an interesting thought.  Stab a Mistborn, and they burn your blade away.  You kill the mistborn, they kill your Spren.  Yikes.  That puts a WHOLE new thought on the fight between Mistborn and Radiants.  

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

4 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Spren blades, being both Honor and cultivation, would be different.  Maybe their "thing" is they can change form and be alive.  it's giving life to Honor's Blades.  There's also the bond to think about, which gives power, but adding Life to that power gives it a will, and thus, the Oaths can gatekeep the power.  But a Mistborn...a Mistborn should be able to burn a sprenblade.  THAT's an interesting thought.  Stab a Mistborn, and they burn your blade away.  You kill the mistborn, they kill your Spren.  Yikes.  That puts a WHOLE new thought on the fight between Mistborn and Radiants.  

Yeah, this is tricky. There's a few WOB around burning Shardblades and other god metals, but it's hard to know if Brandon's referring to dead Shardblades or Sprenblades. Here's the main ones I found.

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word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)

This one implies that the differences of Investiture would make it difficult, but...

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Questioner

If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so  what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

This one states that a Mistborn could burn it.

My personal theory is that a Mistborn could burn a Deadeye Shardblade (or at least shavings/ beads of its metal), as that Investiture is mostly inert - stuck in the Blade form. However, I feel that a living spren would be too Investiture rich for the Mistborn to reliably burn it. It would also take a looooong time to burn away the amount of metal within a Sprenblade. Plus, you're also dealing with opposing Intent with a living spren; I'd imagine it'd be kind of like an object resisting Soulcasting, but to a higher extent. 

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

5 hours ago, Tglassy said:

If I were theorycrafting, I would say that no, burning metals is a property of Lerasium and Preservation's power.  It's why Lerasium can be burned by anyone.  

Ruin's power is Hemalurgy.  So pure Atium wouldn't be able to be burned.  It would be to steal.  Which...maybe is why an Atium Spike can steal any ability?  It could be burned by a Mistborn, because that's their thing, but to everyone else, it would just be the ultimate Hemalurgic Spike.  

Sorry, just wanted to mention one other WOB from the last spoiler stream regarding the nature of Pure Atium and who could burn it.

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LewsTherinTelescope

At the end of The Lost Metal, we learn that Marsh will be using atium from the ettmetal experiments to stay alive going forward. However, Peter recently revealed (and you confirmed) that the atium in Era 1 which stored youth was actually a mix of atium and electrum. How will this continue to work to keep him young?

Brandon Sanderson

They're going to have a different term for pure atium and for what has been known as atium--what they're making. It is not hard to get the right mix down for what he needs to stay alive. It is hard to make enough of it to keep him alive. Well, not hard, but definitely not scalable to more than one person, how about that. They are able to do it, you've just got to make an alloy.

I will apologize for this. This is a post-Era-1 retcon where I realized I need all the God Metals to do different things, and this is just one of the aspects that comes down. For those who don't know what's going on: I get done with Era 1, I start really working on the nature of metals in the cosmere. I'm like, "Ehhh... Atium really should be burnable by anybody. It's a God Metal. The way God Metals work is not in line with how I've made atium. So what they call atium has to have trace elements of something else, and then there's a pure form of atium out there that would be the true pure God Metal." That is one of those unfortunate retcons when you're doing all this continuity. And it works just fine in the books, because the way that atium is being made is a pretty complicated little process there in the Pits of Hathsin.

The question is the right question. Sazed is going to get out of this pure atium, which he is going to need to tweak before he gives it to Marsh. Whether Marsh knows he is getting a tweaked version or not is subject to your own interpretation.

For arcanist purposes, if you want to call the other one pure atium and the regular one just atium, I'd recommend something like that for your wikis and things like that.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

[Primeival Chaos he/him]

The way I see it, anyone with a connection to it can burn a God Metal. I think that's why anyone on Scadrial can burn Lerasium. They have a piece of Preservation in them. Maybe if a fullborn was able to do some shenanigans with storing connection and investiture could burn any God Metal.

But that's just speculation

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

11 minutes ago, Primeival Chaos said:

The way I see it, anyone with a connection to it can burn a God Metal. I think that's why anyone on Scadrial can burn Lerasium. They have a piece of Preservation in them. Maybe if a fullborn was able to do some shenanigans with storing connection and investiture could burn any God Metal.

But that's just speculation

That's a valid point, though Hoid burned Lerasium without much issue (though he is a bit special, so maybe I shouldn't use him as an example)

My current speculation is that Intent is the biggest factor. Like, a Rosharan or a Nalthin could burn Lerasium (and maybe other god metals) so long as they knew what they were and how Allomancy works. A Scadrian is going to have a more natural inclination towards burning metals due to the piece of Preservation inside of them, meaning their Intent for god metals would likely be a lot more natural. 

But that's also speculation until we see it on screen.

[alder24]

 

Seems like everybody can burn proper alloy of Lerasium to become misting

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Questioner

I was also wondering if... I just finished reading the Ars Arcanum in the back of Bands of Mourning and I heard it mention that god metals could be alloyed to give different abilities or traits.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Could you give an example of one?

Brandon Sanderson

So, you could alloy lerasium with certain metals of the sixteen in the table and get, if you had just enough lerasium, it would make them a misting of those powers.

Calamity Philadelphia signing (Feb. 20, 2016)

And here is how you gain tie to Honor/Cultivation and ability to start burning Shardblades - alloying it with Lerasium

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Snarlezz

What's the incentive of alloying lerasium and becoming a misting when you could just burn it normal and be a Mistborn?

AltF4WillHelp

My guess is that you'd presumably you'd use less of it? Also, arguably, not every way of using a magic is going to be the most optimal way.

It's probably just a way that lerasium can work. If you alloy it or somehow mix it with things from other systems, it's quite possible you'd end up getting those magics instead, because it'd Connect you more strongly to a different Shard.

Brandon Sanderson

The replies to this are correct.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018)