How to make a Discord

[SpinningSky he/him]

So I feel that in most conversations regarding Discord it's assumed that it will be sort of an intent "deviation" for Harmony, due to either:

• The % of Ruin overrunning the % of Preservation
• the balance between ruin and preservation falling into instability, thus Discord as opposite of Harmony

But I haven't heard people taking about what I've been thinking about, which I find more elegant somehow

Harmony + Autonomy = Discord

My thought process being, it's not the "Ruin" nor the "Preservation" within Harmony that'll change the intent, instead, with a mechanic that we've seen, what if Sazed was to take up Autonomy's shard as well? 
You could argue that Autonomy truly clashes with Harmony, and if you try to hold both the intent of Harmony and the intent of Autonomy, that's where you get the Discord.
It might not be a true "taking over the power" thing, but just the power influencing him, which fits with Autonomy MOs of leaving traces of herself around the Cosmere, as it kinda looked like it was happening throughout era 2.

---

Having said that, here's my fan-fiction outline for this side of era 3, just for fun:

book 1) we start Era 3 in the middle of all chaotic things are left unsolved by Lost Metal (more "in media res" start than usual Brandon), Sazed is forced already by the end of the book to somehow take up Autonomy's power or part of it.

book 2) Sazed is a wild card becoming more and more Discord due to autonomy's influence, a whole lot of science discoveries and beginning of spaceships 

book 3) Spaceship is ready. With the help of Hoid and Kelsier (forced to work together) and some of our new protagonists, Sazed manages to put Autonomy's influence to his advantage, fully embraces it, and is thus able to truly act and: 
- releases all of Preservation power as Lerasium dust in in the atmosphere, making everyone a mistborn
- now free to act with Ruins intent, he self-shatters (), thus destroying Scadrial (deeply tied to Ruin and Peservation) and leaving a whole bunch of Ruinspren free to roam the Cosmere

and we're left, for era 4, with a spaceship full of mistborn (holding what's left of Preservation) ready go to hunt Ruinspren. a bit like Asgardians in MCU
Also, if you ever were to put Preservation back together, they might have to all sacrifice themselves.
Kelsier takes up what's left of Autonomy and starts a new level of Ghostbloods, using his influence with Autonomy Agents throughout the Cosmere.

Again, this is just a plot-idea I think would be fun, but the fact that Discord is not a "simple inversion" of Harmony I think might hold some water

 

[Treach]

I have a lot of thoughts on this, I’ll start with the text. We have two mentions of both discord and harmony in SA. 
 

Quote

“People are discord,” Syl said. “What does that mean?” “You all act differently and think differently. Nothing else is like that—animals act alike, and all spren are, in a sense, virtually the same individual. There’s harmony in that. But not in you—it seems that no two of you can agree on anything. All the world does as it is supposed to, except for humans. Maybe that’s why you so often want to kill each other.”

Quote

She expected to hear whimpering or weeping—the only response she’d received over the last few days. This time she heard a strange tone, both harmonious and discordant at once. The Rhythm of War.

These are probably just nods to Mistborn, but the later being from RW makes me confident they are at least intentional. I think Discord is Sazed, but there is a chance this is a red herring. In that case, I would argue Taravangian has taken the name Discord, especially if he’s taken up another shard. His tone is referred to as Discord, people are referred to as discord, and the Singers claim Odium is the humans god. We know that to this point Odium has avoided doing that, but Taravangian is not Rayse and has had very little time for Odium’s intent to take over and drive the boat so to speak. He came to Roshar via refugees, and Horneater refugees are on the way to Scadrial. Discord could be nearer than we think. 
 

Back to Harmony. In theory, Harmony shouldn’t really be possible for the shards Sazed holds, because they are not equal. When Preservation created Scadrial, he invested some of himself into all people. This leaves him inherently weaker than Ruin. Aside from the well, he countered this by making some of Ruins power coalesce physically - Atium. This is why Ruin couldn’t destroy the planet or act fully after Vin freed him, because he didn’t have the Atium hoard and therefore didn’t have all of his power. 
Now we venture into some speculation, although I would argue well founded speculation. After the Catacendre, Sazed is Harmony. Which shouldn’t be possible, since ruin is stronger than Preservation, right? Except, there was Atium left from before, so Ruin was weakened and roughly the same strength as Preservation, allowing Harmony. The trouble being that Atium no longer forms naturally, as far as we know, Sazed apparently stopped this when he remade the world. And as we see in TLM, they have used all they had up keeping Marsh going. So essentially, over time as they use up the Atium that no longer reforms, Ruins power has returned to Sazed and he has steadily become more skewed toward ruin.

Sazed shows us in the words of founding that he is very aware of how the Lord Ruler designed the world, and as a Terrisman he was well aware that he would be named Discord, so I seriously doubt his removing the Pits was an oversight. I suspect he has long planned to slowly become Discord, giving weight to him telling Kelsier he “has it all in hand” when Kelsier expresses concern. I think his Intent will still be driven by both Ruin and Preservation, but the door opens for more use of Ruin to ultimately Preserve. Essentially, as Syl implies, Sazed is becoming a God who can act like a human. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Treach

[ArchangelCaesar]

So essentially he's becoming the Spirit of Imperialism? I saw another theory floating around that the "clash of cultures" that Brandon has described for Era 4 could easily be an exploration of intergalactic imperialism, and Discord, driven by Preservation (of Scadrial and it's culture) and Ruin (of other people's lives and cultures) could easily be a driver of this. So as you said, a very human Shard

[Treach]

3 hours ago, ArchangelCaesar said:

So essentially he's becoming the Spirit of Imperialism? I saw another theory floating around that the "clash of cultures" that Brandon has described for Era 4 could easily be an exploration of intergalactic imperialism, and Discord, driven by Preservation (of Scadrial and it's culture) and Ruin (of other people's lives and cultures) could easily be a driver of this. So as you said, a very human Shard

This makes sense. Big America vibes from Autonomy: We are self governing and you should be too, in the way we deem appropriate. Supporting and orchestrating the upheaval of existing structure, then installing a system of government Autonomy approves of through her avatar. Even to the detail of her followers on world being chosen to lead the new system. If all else fails, invade directly. 

[DiePie]

7 hours ago, Treach said:

This makes sense. Big America vibes from Autonomy: We are self governing and you should be too, in the way we deem appropriate. Supporting and orchestrating the upheaval of existing structure, then installing a system of government Autonomy approves of through her avatar. Even to the detail of her followers on world being chosen to lead the new system. If all else fails, invade directly. 

Something interesting about that is that Bilming reminded me more of the Soviet Union than the United States. New construction was centrally planned (and designed), and the set functions similarly to the party in a one-party state: As a paramilitary organization with complete control over the government. Perhaps at some point the leaders of the revolution had good intentions with increasing people's individuality, but The Lost Metal, all they care about is power. When Bilming was described as Brutalist, all I could think of were the commie-blocks of the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact countries (though they don't fit the description). I know that Brutalism was also popular in the united states (and other western countries) during the early cold-war, but still.

If there's any reason to think that something was lost in translation between Autonomy and the set (and that they don't really understand autonomy's ideals), I would use that difference between that and the ideals of the more United States-aligned Autonomy.

[duladen he/him]

In my mind, Harmony and Discord are two possible states of the combination of Ruin + Preservation. Harmony being an unstable equilibrium, like a ball at the apex of a hill - if Sazed moves too much or too suddenly, the ball tips off and rolls down. Discord being a stable equilibrium, like a ball sitting in a valley - it will take a lot of work and energy to return to Harmony.

This of course is just my interpretation. Excited to learn more in Era 3.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

On 07/12/2022 at 1:37 AM, SpinningSky said:

Harmony + Autonomy = Discord

My thought process being, it's not the "Ruin" nor the "Preservation" within Harmony that'll change the intent, instead, with a mechanic that we've seen, what if Sazed was to take up Autonomy's shard as well? 
You could argue that Autonomy truly clashes with Harmony, and if you try to hold both the intent of Harmony and the intent of Autonomy, that's where you get the Discord.
It might not be a true "taking over the power" thing, but just the power influencing him, which fits with Autonomy MOs of leaving traces of herself around the Cosmere, as it kinda looked like it was happening throughout era 2.

You know, that reminds me of something Sazed said in TLM. 

He said that Trell/Autonomy was Investing into Scadrial and into Sazed, or rather the Shard Harmony, which means that this theory might not be too far off.

[lacrossedeamon]

 

On 12/6/2022 at 6:25 PM, Treach said:

I have a lot of thoughts on this, I’ll start with the text. We have two mentions of both discord and harmony in SA. 
 

These are probably just nods to Mistborn, but the later being from RW makes me confident they are at least intentional. I think Discord is Sazed, but there is a chance this is a red herring. In that case, I would argue Taravangian has taken the name Discord, especially if he’s taken up another shard. His tone is referred to as Discord, people are referred to as discord, and the Singers claim Odium is the humans god. We know that to this point Odium has avoided doing that, but Taravangian is not Rayse and has had very little time for Odium’s intent to take over and drive the boat so to speak. He came to Roshar via refugees, and Horneater refugees are on the way to Scadrial. Discord could be nearer than we think. 
 

Back to Harmony. In theory, Harmony shouldn’t really be possible for the shards Sazed holds, because they are not equal. When Preservation created Scadrial, he invested some of himself into all people. This leaves him inherently weaker than Ruin. Aside from the well, he countered this by making some of Ruins power coalesce physically - Atium. This is why Ruin couldn’t destroy the planet or act fully after Vin freed him, because he didn’t have the Atium hoard and therefore didn’t have all of his power. 
Now we venture into some speculation, although I would argue well founded speculation. After the Catacendre, Sazed is Harmony. Which shouldn’t be possible, since ruin is stronger than Preservation, right? Except, there was Atium left from before, so Ruin was weakened and roughly the same strength as Preservation, allowing Harmony. The trouble being that Atium no longer forms naturally, as far as we know, Sazed apparently stopped this when he remade the world. And as we see in TLM, they have used all they had up keeping Marsh going. So essentially, over time as they use up the Atium that no longer reforms, Ruins power has returned to Sazed and he has steadily become more skewed toward ruin.

Sazed shows us in the words of founding that he is very aware of how the Lord Ruler designed the world, and as a Terrisman he was well aware that he would be named Discord, so I seriously doubt his removing the Pits was an oversight. I suspect he has long planned to slowly become Discord, giving weight to him telling Kelsier he “has it all in hand” when Kelsier expresses concern. I think his Intent will still be driven by both Ruin and Preservation, but the door opens for more use of Ruin to ultimately Preserve. Essentially, as Syl implies, Sazed is becoming a God who can act like a human. 

I think those Terris prophecies might not have originated on Scadrial and actually apply to multiple people across the cosmere. Dalinar and Vasher could also fit those criteria especially if you take into account Ruin having tweaked the original prophecy.

[Treach]

16 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

 

I think those Terris prophecies might not have originated on Scadrial and actually apply to multiple people across the cosmere. Dalinar and Vasher could also fit those criteria especially if you take into account Ruin having tweaked the original prophecy.

I agree, I actually think Dalinar fits some of the prophecy better than Sazed. Most of it that doesn’t include the Terris people, actually. 
For example:

Quote

He was no simple soldier. He was a force of leadership - a man that fate itself seemed to support.

Quote

"He shall defend their ways, yet shall
violate them. He will be their savior, yet
they shall call him heretic. His name
shall be Discord, yet they shall love him
for it."

Quote

"The Hero of Ages shall be not a man, but a force. No nation may
claim him, no woman shall keep him, and no king may slay him.
He shall belong to none, not even himself."

The phrase “a force” is used to describe shards and spren fairly often, and people in a few cases, but always people who are highly invested. The Lord Ruler, Vin, Kaladin by Moash in RoW. In TWoK Dalinar is the only person referenced as a force, well before he bonds the stormfather or Ascends in Oathkeeper. 

[lacrossedeamon]

5 minutes ago, Treach said:

I agree, I actually think Dalinar fits some of the prophecy better than Sazed. Most of it that doesn’t include the Terris people, actually. 
For example:

The phrase “a force” is used to describe shards and spren fairly often, and people in a few cases, but always people who are highly invested. The Lord Ruler, Vin, Kaladin by Moash in RoW. In TWoK Dalinar is the only person referenced as a force, well before he bonds the stormfather or Ascends in Oathkeeper. 

As for my thoughts on Vasher. Strifelover could been seen as a synonym to Discord. His actions saved Idris even though being a Returned he is reviled in their religion. Vasher no longer sees himself as a man due to being a cognitive shadow.

 

Also even Raoden seems to fit some pretty well. I think these might just be a cosmere constant.

[drunkenbotanist]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:40 PM, JustQuestin2004 said:

You know, that reminds me of something Sazed said in TLM. 

He said that Trell/Autonomy was Investing into Scadrial and into Sazed, or rather the Shard Harmony, which means that this theory might not be too far off.

Came here to also mention the "investing scadrial...investing *me* bit*