Aetherbound vs Sandmastery

[lacrossedeamon]

I noticed some similarity between the two magic systems. Users of the powers risk dehydration and both are reliant on a microorganism that seemingly metabolizes Investiture. I wonder if this is just a coincident or if there is a closer connection between the two.

I've also had pointed out to me that the clothing that TwinSouls wears is rather similar to what the Diem wear but I attribute that more to the cultures they are based on having a general similar aesthetic rather than something in universe.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

7 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I noticed some similarity between the two magic systems. Users of the powers risk dehydration and both are reliant on a microorganism that seemingly metabolizes Investiture. I wonder if this is just a coincident or if there is a closer connection between the two.

I've also had pointed out to me that the clothing that TwinSouls wears is rather similar to what the Diem wear but I attribute that more to the cultures they are based on having a general similar aesthetic rather than something in universe.

From what I understand it seems that Aetherbound use water only when they don't have access to a specific 'Ambient Investiture Field', whatever that is.

Also I'd say that a fight between a Sandmaster and a Roseite Aetherbound  would be an interesting one, not too sure which would win but I'd put my money on the Aetherbound.

[lacrossedeamon]

I assume if a sandmaster has access to unkeyed Dor or something they might also not be beholden to water consumption. Although I think the 'Ambient Investiture Field' allows the creation to exist beyond contact of the user, not that it bypasses the water requirement but maybe it's both.

I also feel that an Aetherbound would win. It seems more versatile both in use and access

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Do we know what the Shard responsible for Aether Investiture is? (If any, given we are told the Aethers predate the Shattering)

 

Because if it's Autonomy it makes sense that you'd see similarities across those magic systems 

[bmcclure7]

25 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

Do we know what the Shard responsible for Aether Investiture is? (If any, given we are told the Aethers predate the Shattering)

 

Because if it's Autonomy it makes sense that you'd see similarities across those magic systems 

Shards didn't exist post shattering so Adonalsium.

[stonehand]

3 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

Do we know what the Shard responsible for Aether Investiture is? (If any, given we are told the Aethers predate the Shattering)

 

Because if it's Autonomy it makes sense that you'd see similarities across those magic systems 

I get the impression that since the Aethers predate the shattering, Aetherbound can make use of any investiture regardless of source

[Criggleworth]

I've been wondering if perhaps the lichen from White Sand is an offshoot of one of the aethers. Like, maybe one of the varieties of core aethers had an offshoot that mutated, for lack of a better word, into what we see in White Sand.

When Kenton over masters and recovers, he mentions feeling like there's some sort of awareness in the sand. It's not really touched on or explored in the graphic novels. But it could be an indication that there's more to the lichen than we think. Could also explain why the Sand Lord hates sand mastery- an Avatar of Autonomy would probably not want its people to be involved with aethers that originated from off world. 

Or it could just be one of those similarities that happens across magic systems, like how you can Lightweave in at least three magic systems.

[Frustration he/him]

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Shards didn't exist post shattering so Adonalsium.

yes, but there is no investiture that isn't assigned to a shard

Spoiler

Questioner

I asked if there was there a pure form of Investiture that is not tied to any Shard, and you said that my question had some false premises. Can you elaborate on what I had wrong there?

Brandon Sanderson

The false premise, the main one, is that other Investiture is not pure. Investiture, by its definition, comes from a certain place. That's like saying, "Is there water that doesn't have hydrogen in it? Is there pure water without hydrogen? Can you take the hydrogen out, and make purer water?" That's the problem there. This idea that Investiture is impure because it's tied to a Shard is a false premise. That is pure Investiture.

Questioner

Is there Investiture that is not related to any Shard, then?

Brandon Sanderson

There can't be, because the Shards were what the original... it's like saying, "I've got four pieces of a cookie. Are there any pieces that didn't come from the original cookie." You just said, "There's four pieces of this cookie." What you really wanna be saying is, "Is there non-Adonalsium-origin power like Investiture in the cosmere?" Is that what you're getting at? Or are you getting at, "Is there one of the Shards that is not held by a sapient entity?" Like, you could be asking so many questions from these things that I don't know how to answer what you're looking for. So, think about those, and ask me some of those questions next time.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

[lacrossedeamon]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:01 AM, Criggleworth said:

I've been wondering if perhaps the lichen from White Sand is an offshoot of one of the aethers. Like, maybe one of the varieties of core aethers had an offshoot that mutated, for lack of a better word, into what we see in White Sand.

When Kenton over masters and recovers, he mentions feeling like there's some sort of awareness in the sand. It's not really touched on or explored in the graphic novels. But it could be an indication that there's more to the lichen than we think. Could also explain why the Sand Lord hates sand mastery- an Avatar of Autonomy would probably not want its people to be involved with aethers that originated from off world. 

Or it could just be one of those similarities that happens across magic systems, like how you can Lightweave in at least three magic systems.

Yeah that's my thought or that Autonomy copied the magic system for whatever reason. I'm also wondering if that lichen or whatever is related to the mold in Elantris that seems to interact with Investiture in some way.

[Elegy he/him]

The aethers don't belong to any Shard:

Quote

ChromatiCaos

You said that all Investiture got assigned to a Shard when Adonalsium got Shattered, which Investiture do the Dawnshards draw from? What about the aethers?

Brandon Sanderson

Dawnshards and aethers both predate the Shattering, and the rules don't apply to them.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

I think the similarities come from just fundamental cosmere mechanics, similar to how several worlds have Lightweaving.

[kenod]

Yeah, I suspect that microorganisms feeding on investure is more of a case of convergent evolution, where, if energy in the form of Investure is abundant and accessible, life will evolve to use it as an energy source.

[lacrossedeamon]

On 12/20/2022 at 6:35 PM, kenod said:

Yeah, I suspect that microorganisms feeding on investure is more of a case of convergent evolution, where, if energy in the form of Investure is abundant and accessible, life will evolve to use it as an energy source.

Has there been enough time for convergent evolution to happen? We know a few worlds that are too young for even fossils to have formed.

[kenod]

9 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Has there been enough time for convergent evolution to happen? We know a few worlds that are too young for even fossils to have formed.

A couple, but to my knowledge of the known Shardworlds only Scadrial was specifically created by Shards.

[lacrossedeamon]

18 minutes ago, kenod said:

A couple, but to my knowledge of the known Shardworlds only Scadrial was specifically created by Shards.

Roshar is only old enough for a few fossils to have formed so only a few tens of thousands of years old. I think Vasher also implies Nalthis is too young to have fossils.

[Frustration he/him]

16 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Has there been enough time for convergent evolution to happen? We know a few worlds that are too young for even fossils to have formed.

Evolution is faster in the cosmere

Spoiler

Questioner

Do the Purelakers get pruney feet because of the water? If not, is it because they have special feet or does it have to do with the magic fish?

Brandon Sanderson

They have adapted over time and they do not have magic feet. They have special feet, but they have adapted over time to the situation. Now, let's make the note that most natural selection does not work on the timescale of the cosmere and so there probably have to be some magical foundations for this. The fact that everyone on Roshar is Invested with a bit of Investiture more than average is going to push people over time in a way. Kind of the rationale I give myself on this is because Intent and these sorts of things are so important cosmerelogically that we get evolution on a faster scale in most of the cosmere. And so you can see this just by adaptations that have happened since the history of Roshar itself and the arrival of humans on Roshar and things like that.

YouTube Livestream 9 (May 28, 2020)

 

[lacrossedeamon]

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

Evolution is faster in the cosmere

  Hide contents

Questioner

Do the Purelakers get pruney feet because of the water? If not, is it because they have special feet or does it have to do with the magic fish?

Brandon Sanderson

They have adapted over time and they do not have magic feet. They have special feet, but they have adapted over time to the situation. Now, let's make the note that most natural selection does not work on the timescale of the cosmere and so there probably have to be some magical foundations for this. The fact that everyone on Roshar is Invested with a bit of Investiture more than average is going to push people over time in a way. Kind of the rationale I give myself on this is because Intent and these sorts of things are so important cosmerelogically that we get evolution on a faster scale in most of the cosmere. And so you can see this just by adaptations that have happened since the history of Roshar itself and the arrival of humans on Roshar and things like that.

YouTube Livestream 9 (May 28, 2020)

 

Oh that is interesting.