Godmetal theory

[Wadders]

So we have seen that burning lerasium connects the user to preservation and provides mistborn abilities.

A spike of trellium allowed Wax to communicate directly with Autonomy's current avatar on Scadrial presumably through a form of connection. (side note: this sort of thing might be used for long range communication at some point)

My theory is that burning a god metal will provide a permanent connection to the relevant shard although how this manifests will likely vary. Atium so far seems not to follow this rule however I believe it has been confirmed that era 1 atium is not pure ruin investiture but an alloy which could be why this does not occur.

 

 

 

[The Titan God he/him]

word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)

 

This WoB implies that in order to burn some God Metals you already need a Connection to that Shard, so it doesn't make a lot of sense (or at least it wouldn't be noticeable) that burning those metals established a Connection. Tbf though, this is an old WoB so things may have changed.

[Brgst13]

More recent WoB:

Dave Smith

Can a Mistborn burn any god metal such as tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes they could.

Footnote: Previously Brandon indicated they would need a tie to that type of Investiture.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

[DiePie]

Probably relevant: At some point it was changed so that any God-metal can be burned by anyone (allomancer or no)

[IlstrawberrySeed]

Is that any scadrial, any human, any sapient, or any living? I always thought that quote only meant scadrial humans, because of seeds of allowance from preservation.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Peter's since implied this retcon may date all the way back to 2008:

Spoiler

/u/AAKS_

My understanding is that Brandon thinks it is a plothole that Lerasium can be burned by Scadrian (regardless of if they are mistings/mistborn) but Atium can't.

His solution is to retcon the Pits to naturally produce an Atium/Electrum alloy, presumably by the design of Preservation. Therefore we don't know what pure Atium looks like or does when used in any magic.

Peter Ahlstrom

We do know what it does. It’s on the Allomancy poster, and the effect appeared one time at the end of Hero of Ages.

LewsTherinTelescope

Interesting. Do you know if he had already conceived the retcon by the time the poster was written, or if that line about pure atium just turned out to fit really well retroactively?

Peter Ahlstrom

The retcon is way older than a lot of people assume.

LewsTherinTelescope

Does this mean he had it in mind by the time Hero of Ages released (since the first public version of the poster dates to 2008), or just that it's old but not sure exactly how old?

Peter Ahlstrom

Remember that what's in the books is filtered through the understanding of the characters. So even if Brandon planned it from the beginning, if the characters didn't know about it, it's not going to come out in the book.

And see this thread reply from 2009.

Footnote: The link is to a post on the Timewaster's Guide forums, where Peter responds to someone asking about whether atium is an alloy by saying he now knows enough to confirm or deny the theory, but is not allowed to.
General Reddit 2022 (Dec. 4, 2022)

So I think there's a reasonable chance of the "A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture" WoB being with the retcon in mind, but probably gonna try to get clarification next spoiler stream.

Same Word of Peter also says we saw pure atium's effect at the end of Hero of Ages and the description on the table of it as "an expansive vision of the future" is accurate, so seems to me like it may be what happened to Elend when he burned atium and duralumin (why burning duralumin would purify it, I have no idea).

[Frustration]

7 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Same Word of Peter also says we saw pure atium's effect at the end of Hero of Ages and the description on the table of it as "an expansive vision of the future" is accurate, so seems to me like it may be what happened to Elend when he burned atium and duralumin (why burning duralumin would purify it, I have no idea).

It could be that the electrum dilutes the power just enough that it can't break through and view the Spiritual realm, and Duralumin gives it the power it needs to overcome that barrier.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

We see pure atium used in hemalurgy, (it's how some inquisitors can burn atium-electrum) and the question is about any magic system. He mentions it is in the allomancy poster, but Brandon confirmed it is actually atium-electrum, and Peter alludes to that with the "Remember ... filtered through the understanding of the characters." I have changed my mind on the only scadrian, but I am still interested about non-human and non-sentient creatures.

[cometaryorbit]

On 1/1/2023 at 9:04 PM, Frustration said:

It could be that the electrum dilutes the power just enough that it can't break through and view the Spiritual realm, and Duralumin gives it the power it needs to overcome that barrier.

Yeah, it's not that the duralumin literally purifies the raw/slightly alloyed electrum, just gives enough power to overcome the limits. Theoretically a sufficiently strong Allomancer could do it with electrum + duralumin, though that might take beyond-Elend strength.

Wigginns

What would a Hemalurgic spike granting atium do for an Allomancer already able to burn atium? Does it function similarly to bronze, granting enhanced atium-ing? Along this line of thought, would enhancing electrum burning via spike be of any advantage?

Brandon Sanderson

A spike of something you have would enhance your ability, giving your more strength. With atium, more strength makes for a minimal edge--the length you can push out the atium shadows. However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the [Spiritual Realm], and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment.

Electrum could reach this same moment, potentially, though there's more interference to fight through. Extra strength in electrum isn't going to be terribly useful up to that point.

Alsadius

Is that what happened when atium was burned with duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Footnote: In his original response Brandon mistakenly said burning atium and duralumin would cause the Allomancer to peer into the Cognitive Realm, rather than Spiritual Realm. He has since confirmed that this was a mistake.
/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 1, 2015)

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 1/3/2023 at 10:57 AM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

We see pure atium used in hemalurgy, (it's how some inquisitors can burn atium-electrum) and the question is about any magic system.

He says this in the same sentence as saying it's on the Allomancy poster, it would be odd to me if he weren't referring to the Allomantic effect. He also specifies the end of Hero of Ages, but we never see an atium spike created and while Marsh has one, he presumably has it for the entire book, not just the ending.

On 1/3/2023 at 10:57 AM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

He mentions it is in the allomancy poster, but Brandon confirmed it is actually atium-electrum

Brandon has not confirmed that the Allomancy poster refers to the alloy, just that what people in Era 1 believed to be atium is the alloy (but the poster is clearly not from Era 1, as it lists cadmium, bendalloy, chromium, and nicrosil, and also talks about alloys plural of both atium and lerasium). I can't see any other way to read this besides as Peter confirming that the poster's description does apply to pure atium, and further suggesting (but not outright confirming this part) that the retcon may date all the way back to when the poster was designed in 2008.

On 1/3/2023 at 10:57 AM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

but I am still interested about non-human and non-sentient creatures

Yeah, I'm curious as well. I think it should be perfectly viable, myself, but if Brandon wanted to prevent Allomancer dolphins he could probably find a reason to do so.

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Theoretically a sufficiently strong Allomancer could do it with electrum + duralumin, though that might take beyond-Elend strength.

Ah, good point. So more that pure atium's effect is a... well, pure version of what powers like electrum do, perhaps?

[IlstrawberrySeed]

The effect of atium on the poster is the same effect listed in era 2 ars arcanums (if I remember correctly). And unless I am mistaken, marsh burns atium, which is the effect of the pure atium spike. Both the Ars arcanums and the poster are in-world creations, and, as far as we know, nobody knows that mythological atium is atium-electrum. Marsh may, and Sazed knows, but Sazed is a shard and marsh isn't confirmed.

[cometaryorbit]

6 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Ah, good point. So more that pure atium's effect is a... well, pure version of what powers like electrum do, perhaps?

Yeah, I think the implication is that pure atium jumps straight to the full Spiritual Realm expansive future-possibilities vision, not just shadows of the next second or two.

I think Era 1 atium spikes were atium electrum not pure atium. The Inquisitors' experiments only discovered stealing Temporal Allomancy, not the wildcard steal-anything effect.

[Ashbringer he/him]

5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think Era 1 atium spikes were atium electrum not pure atium. The Inquisitors' experiments only discovered stealing Temporal Allomancy, not the wildcard steal-anything effect.

I wonder if the Lord Ruler would have known. He knew enough about Hemalurgy to create the Inquisitors, he might have.

[cometaryorbit]

I think he probably knew but saw no reason to tell the Inquisitors (he didn't need them to know, and wouldnt want them to have an extra tool if he was removed) but that's pure speculation.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:39 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

The effect of atium on the poster is the same effect listed in era 2 ars arcanums (if I remember correctly).

Nope, the effect in Era 2's Ars Arcanum is just "See Other People’s Futures", while the poster says

Quote

Pure atium grants the Allomancer an expansive vision of the future and enhances the mind's ability to accept, process, and hold information. In alloy form, it produces various expanded mental and temporal effects.

 

On 1/4/2023 at 3:39 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

And unless I am mistaken, marsh burns atium, which is the effect of the pure atium spike.

We don't actually know what an atium-electrum spike would do, so it's possible that that would work, but yeah there's a good chance he has a pure atium spike. What I mean is that we don't see the creation anywhere (i.e. we don't see Marsh go in and stab a Mistborn with it, afaik), so it feels weird to me to call out that we see the effect at the end of the book specifically if the comment just means that spike that he has the whole novel.

On 1/4/2023 at 3:39 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

Both the Ars arcanums and the poster are in-world creations, and, as far as we know, nobody knows that mythological atium is atium-electrum.

Again, Peter explicitly says the poster lists the effect. Sounds to me like he's confirming that someone does know at the time it's made, which makes sense given whoever made it has apparently experimented with both atium and lerasium alloys enough that they know the general pattern for their effects. (Personally, I suspect it's an Era 3 document, since I don't think we ever had a time period confirmed, and Brandon had it made before he conceived of Era 2? But I may be wrong.)

15 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I wonder if the Lord Ruler would have known. He knew enough about Hemalurgy to create the Inquisitors, he might have.

Wouldn't be surprised if he did, since he knew all sixteen normal metals and yet told nobody else about almost half of them. Otoh, also wouldn't be surprised if he didn't, since surely he would've put the recipe for an alloy more useful than malatium in the cache if so.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

WoB says that inquisitors didn't know it could steal anything, and because intent is required, once they found out it could steal temporal allomancy (or rather, higher metals as it was known at the time), they assumed it worked like other allomantically stealing hemalurgy.