How Moonlight Met Autonomy (and other potential seeds)

[Yumiya]

In TLM we learn a number of significant things.
 

• Autonomy plants seeds on worlds, for when she decides to move in.
• Moonlight, who is Shai from The Emperor's Soul, has met Autonomy. 
• Moonlight hates Autonomy. 
• Moonlight dislikes replication of art, an opinion tainted by her distaste for Autonomy.

These things lead me to believe that The Emperor's Soul details Moonlight's first encounter with Autonomy, or the seed she planted there. 

In The Emperor's Soul, the main antagonists are the Heritage Faction. The Heritage Faction promote "Remembering" as an acceptable application of forging, that uses mass produced low-quality items to recreate historical pieces of art, something Shai is disdainful of. Leading the Heritage Faction is the Senior Arbiter Frava, a woman who wears gold robes and braids her hair with red and gold ribbons. Her name is probably derived from the word Fravashi, which Wikipedia claims could mean "one who has been selected (for exaltation)."

Put together, I believe that the Heritage Faction is Sel's version of the Set and is Autonomy's seed on that planet. Frava is then Autonomy's agent if not potential avatar, like Telsin. 

Similarly, I think we see a seed on Roshar, in the form of the Iriali. We know they are not native to Roshar, nor did they migrate from Ashyn. They have gold skin (like some scary men of red and gold we see briefly). They travel from world to world and believe in The One. The One sounds much how Autonomy behaves, splitting into multiple individuals and experiencing different things. This religion is similar to the one that Arclo tells Lift about. Oddly, there is a section of stone above the amphitheater where he sat that was carved and painted gold and red.

[NerdyAarakocra]

Those are good points! I think that it's important to figure out how color schemes play into this - both Odium and Autonomy seem to have gold and red as their color schemes.

[lacrossedeamon]

I had the same thought about the Iriali and Autonomy specifically in regards to the One religion as well but someone pointed me to this WoB: 

Solfor (paraphrased)

So the Iriali, their religion, the whole the One breaking themselves into the many to experience the universe. You also have Autonomy breaking themselves into many avatars. So I was wondering is Autonomy connected to the Iriali in any meaningful way.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So are the Iriali connected to Autonomy in a meaningful way? 

I'd say no. I mean they're slightly connected, but in a meaningful way, no, they're not connected.

Autonomy did not start the Iriali religion.

DragonCon 2019 (Sept. 2, 2019)

[ArchangelCaesar]

 

On 11/19/2022 at 8:13 PM, Yumiya said:

 

In The Emperor's Soul, the main antagonists are the Heritage Faction. The Heritage Faction promote "Remembering" as an acceptable application of forging, that uses mass produced low-quality items to recreate historical pieces of art, something Shai is disdainful of. Leading the Heritage Faction is the Senior Arbiter Frava, a woman who wears gold robes and braids her hair with red and gold ribbons. Her name is probably derived from the word Fravashi, which Wikipedia claims could mean "one who has been selected (for exaltation)."

Put together, I believe that the Heritage Faction is Sel's version of the Set and is Autonomy's seed on that planet. Frava is then Autonomy's agent if not potential avatar, like Telsin. 
 

 This is a really good theory. If it is probably, we'll definitely see more of this in Elantris 2 or 3, which will be exciting. This could also set the stage for the Ire's operation (Selish Ghostbloods?) which Moonlight conspicuously doesn't mention in TLM. 

 

 

On 11/19/2022 at 9:01 PM, Ookla the Nerdy said:

Those are good points! I think that it's important to figure out how color schemes play into this - both Odium and Autonomy seem to have gold and red as their color schemes.

Red is the color of corrupted investiture, so it makes a certain amount of sense that red has become the color of an invading force, essentially. The consistent gold coloring is getting frustrating though. If Brandon comes out and says they're different shades of gold, I'm going to lose it. 

[AquaRegia]

Interesting idea.

I will point out that while Frava is wearing gold and red the first time Shai meets her, this is not always the case; on day seventeen she wears "robes of a soft violet".

I'm not convinced that everyone who has ever worn red or gold must be an agent of Autonomy.

[StormingTexan]

On 12/12/2022 at 3:58 PM, Ookla of axi said:

Interesting idea.

I will point out that while Frava is wearing gold and red the first time Shai meets her, this is not always the case; on day seventeen she wears "robes of a soft violet".

I'm not convinced that everyone who has ever worn red or gold must be an agent of Autonomy.

Agreed there is literally a word for word description for men of gold and red in OB that I seriously doubt has anything to do with Autonomy's army. 

Quote

 

She glanced at a soldier who wore the gold and red of Hatham’s army.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 95). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

[Elegy]

Another possibility is that Elantris 2 will deal with a threat that is related to Autonomy:

Quote

strican

In The Lost Metal, it mentions Autonomy having avatars in other worlds. In Shu-Dereth on Sel, Jaddeth speaks directly to Wyrn, who then propagates his will down the hierarchy-

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

strican

Within the religion, ambition is rewarded, but only if it aligns with the orders of the hierarchy. That sounds similar to the philosophy used in the Set, but replacing Jaddeth with Trell. Is Jaddeth an avatar of Autonomy?

Brandon Sanderson

*chuckles and points at screen in very satisfied way* RAFO. You're a very smart person.

It's [pronounced] "Yaddeth", by the way. That is also one of the Y-J's. ...

So, I will say this. Here's what I'll canonize. There is something happening, and the people there legitimately believe, and have reason to believe, that their god is going to return. And I have said before, many times, that Book 2 of Elantris begins with the return of their god. 'Cause they've said "God can't come back until everybody converts". But they've found a loophole. They're like "well, except those heretics in Elantris. And also that other little place, that tiny little region that's over in the mountains, where they talk about roses, they don't count either. Because they're, um, not actually part of the planet." Um, so. So that's something to look forward to, if I ever get around to writing Dakhor, is the return of Jaddeth, the god of [Shu-Dereth].

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

So that sounds like Jaddeth is a Trell-style persona for Bavadin and she's found someone to take that name and become her avatar. Which would mean that Elantris 2 would deal with a Lost Metal-type of situation where Autonomy threatens to claim a planet. Maybe Shai, once she's cosmere-aware, notices that the force that threatens Scadrial is the same that once did the same thing to her homeworld.

[Friendshipspren]

On 12/15/2022 at 0:07 AM, Elegy said:

Another possibility is that Elantris 2 will deal with a threat that is related to Autonomy:

So that sounds like Jaddeth is a Trell-style persona for Bavadin and she's found someone to take that name and become her avatar. Which would mean that Elantris 2 would deal with a Lost Metal-type of situation where Autonomy threatens to claim a planet. Maybe Shai, once she's cosmere-aware, notices that the force that threatens Scadrial is the same that once did the same thing to her homeworld.

Loved that wob 

[Elder]

Along these lines, I kinda wonder if Autonomy didn’t also start a seed religion with Austre on Nalthis.  Doesn’t entirely match to profile, and I doubt Nalthis is a high priority for Autonomy right now.

[lacrossedeamon]

6 hours ago, Elder said:

Along these lines, I kinda wonder if Autonomy didn’t also start a seed religion with Austre on Nalthis.  Doesn’t entirely match to profile, and I doubt Nalthis is a high priority for Autonomy right now.

Well there is the comparisons in the fandom with the MoRaG and Lifeless

[Elder]

16 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Well there is the comparisons in the fandom with the MoRaG and Lifeless

That’s a fair point, and I would argue that Hallandren’s more expressive culture suits Autonomy’s Intent regarding creativity moreso than Idrian culture does.  There’s just really no particular figure for autonomy to be in there.

[lacrossedeamon]

6 minutes ago, Elder said:

That’s a fair point, and I would argue that Hallandren’s more expressive culture suits Autonomy’s Intent regarding creativity moreso than Idrian culture does.  There’s just really no particular figure for autonomy to be in there.

We haven't really seen much of Nalthian religions outside of Idris, Halladren, and a bit of Pahn Kahl. It's possible her seed/Avatar is connected to a different culture/country.

[Elder]

6 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

We haven't really seen much of Nalthian religions outside of Idris, Halladren, and a bit of Pahn Kahl. It's possible her seed/Avatar is connected to a different culture/country.

Good point

[CMac716]

16 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

We haven't really seen much of Nalthian religions outside of Idris, Halladren, and a bit of Pahn Kahl. It's possible her seed/Avatar is connected to a different culture/country.

Tbf, Shai also says there are systems where Autonomy has entire pantheons of gods that are all her avatars

[Argenti]

On 12/12/2022 at 4:58 PM, AquaRegia said:

I'm not convinced that everyone who has ever worn red or gold must be an agent of Autonomy.

Red and Gold is a lovely color combo (THE GRYFFINDORS ARE CLEARLY AGENTS OF AUTONOMY!)