Roshar Implications?

[teknopathetic]

We have a few things from Roshar come about and these to me don’t point to good news for SA book 5:

1. the Ghostbloods consider the Roshar perpendicularly semi unsafe (but not as unsafe as others). That implies the planet is at least still in existance. Though they say “not counting Roshar” as if Roshar is a strange case. So is Cultivation’s one still unusable? 

2. The Newspaper Editor makes a mention of gold haired people who live in Bilming.
 

Quote

“Was it those people with the golden hair living on the east side? They’re some kind of fairy creature; I know it”

Are those Iriali? Did they move again? Would make sense for the Iriali to move somewhere where they could be “autonomous”.

Scadrial has a documented population, so there suddenly being a golden haired minority is quite odd. As well, we know Harmony wants to help other populations and sends kandra to maybe go help the “red haired people” (Horneaters?). Maybe Scadrial has starting receiving  refugees? 

 

3. Chouta is being sold now on Scadrial means Eastern Roshar and Team Honour food culture is moving through Scadrial. Is that implying a mass immigration event? 

4. Horneaters may be refugees near Silverlight. 

5. Hoid has gotten off world which has implications on the rules off getting of world with a spren. Secret Project stuff I won’t mention here  

6. There may have been Skybreakers sent to help sink the boats in the bay. 

7. Iyatal is mentioned as still being running a muck on Roshar with the Ghostbloods.  Seems odd since her running the place wouldn’t allow her to time-skip to the future as a method of not getting old and dying. Is there an active process that stops aging then? Or did she just time skip a lot and recently returned? 

8. Autonomy’s army has gold skin. Is that related to the Iriali in any way? 

 

Any thoughts on what all this means? 

Edited November 17, 2022 by teknopathetic

[+Oltux72]

6 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

8. Autonomy’s army has gold skin. Is that related to the Iriali in any way? 

And red eyes. That is exactly what an army of Iriali fueling whatever Invested Art they wield with Autonomy's Investiture would look like.

If it waddles and quacks ... . I'd say that's exactly what they are.

[+Child of Hodor]

14 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

We have a few things from Roshar come about and these to me don’t point to good news for SA book 5:

1. the Ghostbloods consider the Roshar perpendicularly semi unsafe (but not as unsafe as others). That implies the planet is at least still in existance. Though they say “not counting Roshar” as if Roshar is a strange case. So is Cultivation’s one still unusable? 

2. The Newspaper Editor makes a mention of gold haired people who live in Bilming.
 

Are those Iriali? Did they move again? Would make sense for the Iriali to move somewhere where they could be “autonomous”.

Scadrial has a documented population, so there suddenly being a golden haired minority is quite odd. As well, we know Harmony wants to help other populations and sends kandra to maybe go help the “red haired people” (Horneaters?). Maybe Scadrial has starting receiving  refugees? 

 

3. Chouta is being sold now on Scadrial means Eastern Roshar and Team Honour food culture is moving through Scadrial. Is that implying a mass immigration event? 

4. Horneaters may be refugees near Silverlight. 

5. Hoid has gotten off world which has implications on the rules off getting of world with a spren. Secret Project stuff I won’t mention here  

6. There may have been Skybreakers sent to help sink the boats in the bay. 

7. Iyatal is mentioned as still being running a muck on Roshar with the Ghostbloods.  Seems odd since her running the place wouldn’t allow her to time-skip to the future as a method of not getting old and dying. Is there an active process that stops aging then? Or did she just time skip a lot and recently returned? 

8. Autonomy’s army has gold skin. Is that related to the Iriali in any way? 

 

Any thoughts on what all this means? 

I've long speculated that Taldain was one of the prior worlds the Iriali were on.  They have 3 Autonomous monarchs. Each one is in control of one aspect of the country like Foreign Policy or the Economy and they don't answer to each other. Their whole Long Trail origin talks of a god, the One, splitting into many to experience more. That could be an interpretation of Adonalsium shattering, but it is also exactly what Bavadin is doing by creating Avatars all over the Cosmere. 

They may have moved again, but Iri is an entire nation on Roshar and they are only occupying a portion of a mid-size city on Scadrial. The rest of them have to be somewhere else. They could be on Scadrial and we don't know it or maybe this is like the vanguard, forward scouts for the migration. Seems like a good time to leave Roshar, some Horneaters have bailed and gone to Silverlight and they appear to be refugees. 

 

[Honorless]

I caught the gold haired thing but missed the red haired thing. Can someone post an extract, please and thank you in advance?

[Kasimir]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

I caught the gold haired thing but missed the red haired thing. Can someone post an extract, please and thank you in advance?

Quote

MeLaan turned. There was land ahead. And lights that seemed too alive for the cold fire of this strange place. People crowded around, hundreds of them, with strange outfits, many with odd red hair. Lost.

This was her task. To save those people.

 

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

 

Thanks. Ah, from the epilogues, no wonder I missed it. I was probably just blankly staring ahead for the most part at that point

[Returned]

The main question I have is how Mistborn era 2 and the first five books of Stormlight are placed chronologically. In the epigraphs of SA Sazed mentions that he is searching for someone to act as a sword (Wax), which (given Wax's age) suggests that the SA events take place no more than fifty years before Alloy of Law at the earliest. We don't know when the epigraph was written though, nor how much Harmony might have nudged events to create a person like Wax, so those are wrinkles to keep in mind. Since Iyatil is referenced (or at least implied) to be active on Roshar contemporaneously it seems likely that events are closer together than that, though Iyatil's age isn't known (nor is her experience of aging) and so we have less guidance than we might prefer. But she isn't necessarily running anything, she's running amok, which doesn't require her to be present or active constantly.

Honestly, I think the collection of details you mention is just a tease. We have too little information even to draw the conclusions those things imply (potential connections to the rest of the cosmere). I mean, we have an unknown number of people with red hair among a couple of hundreds of people in Shadesmar and an unknown (but probably small) number of blonde people in Bilming. And that, plus chouta, is kind of it. My growing impression is that, increasingly as the books are written, these sorts of details are included just to show that the books are connected to the other series (or at least to suggest that they are), and are not all that related to the plot or metaplot. Now that we know we have multiple groups of cosmere-aware worldhoppers from all Shardworlds (or near enough to all) operating everywhere, those hints may mean less than they used to.

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Returned

[+Oltux72]

5 hours ago, Honorless said:

Thanks. Ah, from the epilogues, no wonder I missed it. I was probably just blankly staring ahead for the most part at that point

That still leaves us with a number of questions:

1. Why is that her task? Can Harmony still afford to send out Kandra on generic missions? I am sorry, but he is getting his home world invaded and yet he sends his top people on a do good trip? Unfortunately the obvious question whether he is out of his mind may yield an affirmative answer.
2. What is she hoping to achieve with just herself and a guide on a boat?
3. The timing is odd. A refugee trck of human beings cannot last for long in Shadesmar. There is no water. They'll live as long as they can power the condensers. Yet if they have a source of Investiture in Shadesmar, why do they need rescue?

[Proletariat]

I mean, it makes sense that Sazed would want MeLaan to dabble in the Roshar situation since Odium is another serious threat and the only other shard (Cultivation) with a history of opposing Odium is also on Roshar. It also makes sense that Horneaters and Iriali are the first Rosharan people we'd see in Scadrian books given they're cosmere aware, have a history of travelling in that space, and have a shardpool and oathgate in their respective territories that'd make it easy.

The main thing that confuses me is how Skybreakers got off world, and used their surges without glowing bc of the Stormlight (or even a bottle of Dor). It also seems a bit bizarre that a pro-Odium organisation that's a stickler for the rules would also have defections to Kelsier.

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, Proletariat said:

I mean, it makes sense that Sazed would want MeLaan to dabble in the Roshar situation since Odium is another serious threat and the only other shard (Cultivation) with a history of opposing Odium is also on Roshar.

Yes, but either Roshar's Shadesmar has changed beyond recognition or she is not there. Now these might be migrants from Roshar Harmony is interested in. But why?

2 hours ago, Proletariat said:

It also makes sense that Horneaters and Iriali are the first Rosharan people we'd see in Scadrian books given they're cosmere aware, have a history of travelling in that space, and have a shardpool and oathgate in their respective territories that'd make it easy.

If we are talking about large groups, yes. But I have a hard time assuming that the Knights Radiant will not send out scouts as soon as the war allows that.

2 hours ago, Proletariat said:

The main thing that confuses me is how Skybreakers got off world, and used their surges without glowing bc of the Stormlight (or even a bottle of Dor).

The Ghostbloods are known to work on making that travel possible. Voidlight would be a possible fuel. The Fused do not glow.

2 hours ago, Proletariat said:

It also seems a bit bizarre that a pro-Odium organisation that's a stickler for the rules would also have defections to Kelsier.

We may speculate that Nale will have died by the time of TLM. Then the Skybreakers who swore to him will need a new guide.

[teknopathetic]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:52 AM, Proletariat said:

The main thing that confuses me is how Skybreakers got off world, and used their surges without glowing bc of the Stormlight (or even a bottle of Dor). It also seems a bit bizarre that a pro-Odium organisation that's a stickler for the rules would also have defections to Kelsier.

Well, it is the Stormlight leaking out that makes Radiants glow. If the radiants were using a different investiture to make themselves fly, then they likely wouldn't glow. Heck, maybe they are using Lifelight or Voidlight? Maybe things have change and those sources are easier to get off world. Or maybe they had a splash of Purified Dor? 

Edited November 30, 2022 by teknopathetic

[+Oltux72]

On 17.11.2022 at 2:37 AM, teknopathetic said:

5. Hoid has gotten off world which has implications on the rules off getting of world with a spren. Secret Project stuff I won’t mention here 

That is overlooking the elephant in the room.

Hoid is still Waxillium's coach man. Hoid could afford to leave and stay away for six years. His previous task was advisor and wit to the queen of Alethkar in exile.  In other words, it no longer matters much for the greater Cosmere, what the government of Alethkar does.
I am going to say it outright: Odium has been freed to at least the degree that allows him to send out troops. And that is what is making Shadesmar so dangerous.

[King-A-Train]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

That is overlooking the elephant in the room.

Hoid is still Waxillium's coach man. Hoid could afford to leave and stay away for six years. His previous task was advisor and wit to the queen of Alethkar in exile.  In other words, it no longer matters much for the greater Cosmere, what the government of Alethkar does.
I am going to say it outright: Odium has been freed to at least the degree that allows him to send out troops. And that is what is making Shadesmar so dangerous.

Hoid’s long term presence on Scadrial looking very likely that Odium wins, or at least gains power. Hoid could be in hiding, gaining power, gaining allies , biding his time or possibly all of them at once.

I suppose Hoid could always be on Scadrial because Odium was defeated and there is nothing to worry about anymore, but that seems too easy; and leaves the question of who is the big bad on Roshar in the back five. 

[lacrossedeamon]

Regarding Odium I think he might be tied up with a reforged Oathpact. SA6 probably starts with one of the new Heralds (Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Venli, Szeth, Lift, Renarin, Jasnah, with returning members Taln and Shalash) breaking and starting the next Desolation or it the new Oathpact being bypassed as it was implied they were close to the first time. Hoid didn't really care if Odium was defeated so long as he remained bound to the system for the time being. 

[Isilel]

2 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Regarding Odium I think he might be tied up with a reforged Oathpact. . 

The Oathpact never bound Odium - only his Fused and maybe his spren. Odium is bound "by the powers of Honor and Cultivation", which is why a Stormfather's Bondsmith, as Honor's heir, can release him.

[lacrossedeamon]

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

The Oathpact never bound Odium - only his Fused and maybe his spren. Odium is bound "by the powers of Honor and Cultivation", which is why a Stormfather's Bondsmith, as Honor's heir, can release him.

Eric

For the second letter, Rayse is captured and cannot leave the system he inhabits, Roshar. Is the fact that Odium can't leave Roshar a direct result of the Oathpact, or something else?

Brandon Sanderson

Not a direct result of the Oathpact, but the Oathpact was part of it.

 

Either way reforging the oathpact could stall Odium sufficiently to the point Hoid thinks it's fine to leave Roshar without the implication being Odium completely won or lost.

[teknopathetic]

On 2022-11-30 at 8:19 AM, teknopathetic said:

Well, it is the Stormlight leaking out that makes Radiants glow. If the radiants were using a different investiture to make themselves fly, then they likely wouldn't glow. Heck, maybe they are using Lifelight or Voidlight? Maybe things have change and those sources are easier to get off world. Or maybe they had a splash of Purified Dor? 

Brandon said in spoilerstream that as of The Lost Metal, Hoid is the only person with a spren bond to get off of Roshar with his powers intact (that he can remember, anyway). So it looks like the cant be Skybreakers as we would understand them. However, Brandon did really pause and hmm and haw about how to answer the question on if these people were Skybreakers. So perhaps they were Voidbinding/warbinding/oldmagicing without spren or something like that? I am still extremely suspicious of these magic users and where they came from. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by teknopathetic

[RedBlue]

TBH I don’t see why people are theorising that the Ghostbloods who Steris met at the docks might be Skybreakers. One of them asks whether Steris’ instruction is legal, which seems like a thing any ordinary person might do. They can fly and sink large ships quickly, which is something a bunch of Coinshots can do.

It seems much more likely to me that they’re local Allomancers who have been recruited into the Ghostbloods. Is there a reason to assume they’re anything more exotic than that?

[AquaRegia]

1 hour ago, RedBlue said:

TBH I don’t see why people are theorising that the Ghostbloods who Steris met at the docks might be Skybreakers. One of them asks whether Steris’ instruction is legal, which seems like a thing any ordinary person might do. They can fly and sink large ships quickly, which is something a bunch of Coinshots can do.

It seems much more likely to me that they’re local Allomancers who have been recruited into the Ghostbloods. Is there a reason to assume they’re anything more exotic than that?

Two main clues: "nondescript" clothing could mean either "intentionally non-attention-drawing" or "unfamiliar"; and the obvious question "is this action legal?"

I'm not saying I agree with the speculation that they are Skybreakers, it's certainly more likely for the Ghostbloods to have a team of native Scadrian Allomancers.  But given how many other worldhoppers we saw in this novel, the idea that they are Rosharans isn't completely crazy.  Had they been described as "tall" I'd be on board, but alas...

[lacrossedeamon]

I agree with @teknopathetic here. The fact that Brandon didn't just outright say they are Coinshots seems telling, but what exactly it tells I'm not sure. Could be something more similar to what we see the Fused do without need of a spren (assumedly).

[King-A-Train]

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I agree with @teknopathetic here. The fact that Brandon didn't just outright say they are Coinshots seems telling, but what exactly it tells I'm not sure. Could be something more similar to what we see the Fused do without need of a spren (assumedly).

There seems to be something going on, but if they are human fused / heavenly ones using gravitation then they are not Skybreakers so do not need to worry about legality. 
 

Perhaps Stormlight 5 will alter how light works? Not a terrifying thought at all. 

[lacrossedeamon]

1 minute ago, King-A-Train said:

There seems to be something going on, but if they are human fused / heavenly ones using gravitation then they are not Skybreakers so do not need to worry about legality. 

Could still be Skybreakers in a philosophical sense but are accessing the surge via a different means than a nahel bond? With how vague Brandon was here we are in heavy speculative territory.

[teknopathetic]

8 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Could still be Skybreakers in a philosophical sense but are accessing the surge via a different means than a nahel bond? With how vague Brandon was here we are in heavy speculative territory.

Ooooh. Ashyn rejoins the Cosmere! 

[+Oltux72]

20 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Brandon said in spoilerstream that as of The Lost Metal, Hoid is the only person with a spren bond to get off of Roshar with his powers intact (that he can remember, anyway). So it looks like the cant be Skybreakers as we would understand them. However, Brandon did really pause and hmm and haw about how to answer the question on if these people were Skybreakers. So perhaps they were Voidbinding/warbinding/oldmagicing without spren or something like that? I am still extremely suspicious of these magic users and where they came from. 

You are drawing an unsupported  conclusion. To be a Skybreaker you need to form a Nahel bond with a Highspren. You need somebody who has formed a bond to a Highspren to explain the question, because it comes from the oaths. But there is no need to form this connection on Roshar. A Highspren escaping Roshar alone would be enough. It seems to me that if you want to explain things clearly you need a Highspren.

Otherwise you need to explain why

1. People feel themselves bound to the ideals of the Skybreakers
2. Have an ability that can be mistaken for Coinshots
3. Exactly those people happen to be Ghostbloods

We know, well strongly suspect, that multiple groups have left Roshar as refugees. Why would the reasons that displaced them not hit Shadesmar and Spren as well?

[teknopathetic]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You are drawing an unsupported  conclusion. To be a Skybreaker you need to form a Nahel bond with a Highspren. You need somebody who has formed a bond to a Highspren to explain the question, because it comes from the oaths. But there is no need to form this connection on Roshar. A Highspren escaping Roshar alone would be enough. It seems to me that if you want to explain things clearly you need a Highspren.

Otherwise you need to explain why

1. People feel themselves bound to the ideals of the Skybreakers
2. Have an ability that can be mistaken for Coinshots
3. Exactly those people happen to be Ghostbloods

We know, well strongly suspect, that multiple groups have left Roshar as refugees. Why would the reasons that displaced them not hit Shadesmar and Spren as well?

We are agreeing I think? I assume many people have left Roshar recently (post SA5) based on seeing “choutta” for sale, possible Horneaters in the epilogue, and even just generally the Oathgates and Willshapers making Shadesmaar much more easy to access.

I think some of us thought maybe whatever happened in or after SA5 made moving a spren bond off Roshar possible. That these Skybreakers were a hint that at least one Highspren had gotten off world. However, Brandon says that no one but Hoid has managed this by TLM.

So this is odd. The people we are seeing appear to be Skybreakers in principle and military formation, but don’t use a spren bond. Maybe they are Voidbinding, or Old Magic from Old Ashyn, or Warbinding, honourblades, or something else. Or like you said they are powered in another way. 
 

We now have to think of how this might be done with the Ghostbloods “flyers”. They look to be Skybreakers but they are doing something very differently than we have seen before. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by teknopathetic