Cultivation’s Boons/Lift’s Request

[Procrastination]

So, I’ve been thinking about the differences between the Nightwatcher’s boons and Cultivation’s boons. For the Nightwatcher’s boons, we keep seeing completely unrelated boons and curses. For example, one of Ash’s assistants, Av, talks about how his father got cloth for his boon, and then saw the world upside down. However, when Cultivation gives a boon, she appears to make them related. For Dalinar, he forgot his pain from Evi’s death, but he also can’t remember anything else about her. For Taravangian, he received wisdom and empathy/passion, but he could never have them at the same time. Each boon and curse appears to be related. They also appear to be influenced by what Cultivation knows about them.

This brings us to Lift’s boon and curse. We don’t know her exact words, only that she has said that asked not to change. We also don’t know exactly what her curse was. What we do know is that she now can make Lifelight out of food, and appears to be partially in the Cognitive Realm. I’m not sure how this is related to not changing, however we can try to guess her curse off of her wording.

My theory is that she's changing mentally instead of physically. After all, she’s obviously growing, but her mindset stays the same. She mentions that stealing food is her thing, and she doesn’t want to change it. She says the first time we see her that the reason she hasn’t stolen from a place like a palace is because she doesn’t know where she would go after that. She demonstrates a ridiculous level of stubbornness and a hatred of change throughout the entire series. I believe this is because she is partially stuck in the Cognitive Realm, the realm of spren. Syl mentions that spren don’t change, and we’ve seen other groups of spren stuck in the same behaviors, like Lift is. Spren also regard stormlight as a kind of fuel. For instance, when Notum is injured in RoW, the group gives him stormlight to help him heal. Lift uses Lifelight in this way, turning food/fuel into Lifelight. Whether these are just coincidences or not, Lift does appear to be stuck mentally, and I believe that this was her curse. 

Please tell me your theories, if you have any!

Edited August 8, 2022 by rosharian_cat
misspelling

[Why Kaladin?]

But are we even sure is Cultivation gives boons and banes? I think what she does does look like a boon and bane but I think it all just to cover up the fact that she was involved and not the Nightwatcher we do know that Taravangians boon/bane is under the control of Cultivation and Dalinar didn't really get one he just got some memories obscured. So maybe the changes worked on Lift to get her to be able to make Lifelight stunted her growth for a little while and she is just a stubborn person.

Edited August 7, 2022 by LightweaverWannabe

[cometaryorbit]

3 hours ago, LightweaverWannabe said:

But are we even sure is Cultivation gives boons and banes? I think what she does does look like a boon and bane but I think it all just to cover up the fact that she was involved and not the Nightwatcher

Yeah, in the case of Dalinar and Taravangian it seems like the supposed boon and bane are actually one thing (removed memories of Evi; changing intelligence vs compassion). So Cultivation concealing her involvement, but not actually being limited to the boon and bane model, seems very plausible.

But it's still totally unclear to me how turning food into Lifelight and being able to "back-door" into Dalinar's Stormfather visions/being partly in the Cognitive Realm connect to Lift's request to stay the same/remain herself. (I tend to think Cultivation - being about controlled growth by her very nature - interpreted Lift's request as "retain my core identity through change" rather than "don't change", but that doesn't really help much.)

Edited August 8, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Quantus]

Most common theory I've seen is that cultivation has only intervened three known times, granted/arranging a large Connection to each of the three Shards of Roshar, specifically to arrange their Heirs and replacements.  

As for the Nightwatcher, one important thing we now know is that she was specifically created to be UnConnected from the population of Roshar and what they thought about her (unlike normal spren) and does the Boon/Curse thing to try and learn about people.  So I suspect their won't ever be an obvious pattern because it's all an on-going experiment for her to compare and contrast different types of people and what they place Value on.  They come and ask for something, she grants it but Takes something else, then learns from the fallout.   When we meet her I envision a spren that is very knowledgeable (and possibly jaded) when it comes to people and their motivation, but will still be mostly baffled by them.  Based on the scene with Dalinar, she knows how to temp people in "normal" ways, but she couldn't understand complex human/mortal emotions like Grief and Guilt and Forgiveness.  

Edited August 8, 2022 by Quantus

[alder24]

I also think that Cultivation does not gives curses, as all known affected by her wished for someting more than physical, something more spiritual. It may at first appear to be typical boon and curse but it isn't and it masks her involvement. Sometimes you need to cut sides of the bush to make it grow in the right direction. Dalinar would not only never had his wish granted if he retained memory of Evi but he would also never grew to be a better person. The same goes for Taravangian, he would never ascended if he had both intelligence and compassion at the same time. 

For Lift I think that Cultivation made her a little like a Returned. She connected her own self-perception to the way how she looks like, and gives her ability to create Life Light so she can heal and change her body to that image, what as a side effect gives her more presence in CR. As long as Lift perceives herself as 10 year old girl, she would remain that 10 year old girl. But as she journeys through the life and experiences more and more, her self-perception matures, so she matures as well.

[BinarySecond]

On 8/8/2022 at 1:43 PM, Quantus said:

Most common theory I've seen is that cultivation has only intervened three known times, granted/arranging a large Connection to each of the three Shards of Roshar, specifically to arrange their Heirs and replacements.  

I think this theory is dead neat

[+Child of Hodor]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:33 PM, rosharian_cat said:

This brings us to Lift’s boon and curse. We don’t know her exact words, only that she has said that asked not to change. We also don’t know exactly what her curse was. What we do know is that she now can make Lifelight out of food, and appears to be partially in the Cognitive Realm. I’m not sure how this is related to not changing, however we can try to guess her curse off of her wording.

My theory is that she's changing mentally instead of physically. After all, she’s obviously growing, but her mindset stays the same. She mentions that stealing food is her thing, and she doesn’t want to change it. She says the first time we see her that the reason she hasn’t stolen from a place like a palace is because she doesn’t know where she would go after that. She demonstrates a ridiculous level of stubbornness and a hatred of change throughout the entire series. I believe this is because she is partially stuck in the Cognitive Realm, the realm of spren. Syl mentions that spren don’t change, and we’ve seen other groups of spren stuck in the same behaviors, like Lift is. Spren also regard stormlight as a kind of fuel. For instance, when Notum is injured in RoW, the group gives him stormlight to help him heal. Lift uses Lifelight in this way, turning food/fuel into Lifelight. Whether these are just coincidences or not, Lift does appear to be stuck mentally, and I believe that this was her curse. 

I think it's something like this she is better able to stay the same cognitively, but not physically. The "not change" request was met in a round about way by as you point out putting her more in the Cognitive realm than most people are. Things in the Cognitive realm are more resistant to change or better able to resist change through their thoughts. I'm mostly basing that on Shallan trying to turn the Stick into fire and it easily defying her by insisting "I am a STICK!". 

On 8/7/2022 at 4:59 PM, LightweaverWannabe said:

But are we even sure is Cultivation gives boons and banes? I think what she does does look like a boon and bane but I think it all just to cover up the fact that she was involved and not the Nightwatcher we do know that Taravangians boon/bane is under the control of Cultivation and Dalinar didn't really get one he just got some memories obscured. So maybe the changes worked on Lift to get her to be able to make Lifelight stunted her growth for a little while and she is just a stubborn person.

That's a good point. I think she does, but barely. She is primarily doing it for her own purposes, but she does modify the people in a way that technically, from a certain point of view, are a boon and a bane. "I'm gonna take away the memory of killing your wife so you have an opportunity to become a better person without the guilt. I'm also taking all memory of her ever and I'm gonna give it all back eventually that's bane."

"I'll give you great emotional capacity and intellectual capacity but not at the same time which you'll view as a bane, but really it's necessary to lure in Rayse"

"I'll push you into the Cognitive realm partway where things can resist change if they really don't want to. Also you'll produce my Light by eating which will play into my plans ... somehow."

8 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I think this theory is dead neat

Ahem not to brag, BUT!! 'twas I that posted said theory right after RoW came out. 

That's not to say no one else thought of it or would have thought of it on their own.