Mraize bonding with a corrupted spren

[Little_Dagger she/her]

We learn in The Rhythm of War that Mraize approached Sja-anat (through Shallan) to send to him a corrupted/enlightened mistspren to bond. Fortunately, Tumi (the spren) chose Rlain instead and Mraize is probably not able to see the future yet (yay!). It would be rather terrifying if the Ghostbloods had access to oracular powers.

 

What do you think happened between Tumi and Mraize? Did the spren consider him personally not worthy or did it turn out to be mechanically impossible for someone of his decent? 

[Quantus he/him]

Honestly, I think the metallic arts (which the Ghostbloods have access to) are likely to give more useful (or at least usable) prophetic abilities than the seemingly random pictograph form that Renarin sees.  

As for Tumi, she might have simply preferred the person with a strong Connection to Renarin and Glys over a fairly dark person that was bargaining for Power rather than valuing the spren as an individual.  Rlain proved (with that whole thing with Kaladin) that he wanted a spren partner rather than one who had been coerced in any way. Mraize just wanted the Power.

It's also possible that he'd been Spiked, which is a turn-off for many spren. 

[Little_Dagger she/her]

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Honestly, I think the metallic (which the Ghostbloods have access to) are likely to give more useful (or at least usable) prophetic abilities than the seemingly random pictograph form that Renarin sees.  

As for Tumi, she might have simply preferred the with a strong to Renarin and Glys over a fairly dark person that was bargaining for Power rather than valuing the spren as an individual.  Rlain proved (with that whole thing with Kaladin) that he wanted a spren partner rather than one who had been coerced in any way. Mraize just wanted the Power.

It's also possible that he'd been Spiked, which is a turn-off for many spren. 

If the metals are more useful for seeing the future and are already available, why did Mraize work so hard to get the bond in the first place? Certainly not for the healing abilities

[Quantus he/him]

6 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

If the metals are more useful for seeing the future and are already available, why did Mraize work so hard to get the bond in the first place? Certainly not for the healing abilities

There are a couple possible things:

1) The Ghostbloods have Metallic arts as an organization, but he personally is relatively low and may not have much personally. Gaining any Investiture is likely to help move him up in their world.

2) The base Radiance package is pretty sweet.  Shardblade & Plate, extremely strong personal healing, general physical augments, and the ability to move/manipulate Stormlight directly, and also a spren spy.  

[Little_Dagger she/her]

5 minutes ago, Quantus said:

There are a couple possible things:

1) The Ghostbloods have Metallic as , but he personally is relatively low and may not have much personally. Gaining any Investiture is likely to help move him up in their world.

2) The base Radiance package is pretty sweet.  Shardblade & Plate, strong personal healing, general physical augments, and to move/manipulate Stormlight directly, and also a spren spy.  

I agree with both but what seems interesting to me is that even though the (2) is true to any Nahel bond, he specifically requests a corrupted mistspren. He could have chosen a Cryptic and gain lightweaving powers, for example (which seem to be quite useful for his line of work). And yet, he prefers the uncertain pictographs of Renarin's visions instead. That makes me think that seeing the future is not so common within the Ghostbloods (otherwise, it would not give him power within the organization) and is crucial enough for their plans to bully an unmade for.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

To bond a Cryptic, he'd have to admit Truths about himself that maybe he's not willing to acknowledge? Honestly I'd think that bonding an ashspren and becoming a Dustbringer would be the easiest path to Radiance. 

We've never seen Metallic use of Fortune, so it's unclear how much clarity of knowledge/information you get from it at its peak. Could be like Hoid's use of Fortune where he knows where to be but not why. With Compounding/Savantism, could be full oracular stats like when Elend burned Duralumin+Atium, or somewhere in between. 

So, to me, it has to be the oracular visions that come from the corrupted mistspren that he's after. Even if unreliable, they provide detailed information of coming events, and information is power, so the Ghostbloods would be after it. 

Wouldn't a Nahel bond, prevent Mraize from going off Roshar too though?

[Little_Dagger she/her]

44 minutes ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

To bond a Cryptic, he'd have to admit Truths about himself that maybe he's not willing ? Honestly I'd think that bonding an ashspren and becoming a Dustbringer would be the easiest to Radiance. 

We've seen Metallic use of Fortune, so it's unclear how much of knowledge/information you get from it at its peak. Could be like Hoid's use of Fortune where he knows where to be but not why. With Compounding/Savantism, could be full oracular stats like when Elend burned Duralumin+Atium, or somewhere in between. 

So, to me, it has to be the oracular visions that come from the corrupted mistspren that he's after. Even if unreliable, they provide detailed of coming , and information is power, so the Ghostbloods would be after it. 

Wouldn't a Nahel bond, prevent Mraize from going off Roshar too though?

I don't think a Nahel bond would prevent him from leaving Roshar:

Spoiler

Hoid does so after bonding Design (secret project 3) and we see a Skybreaker appear in the Sixth of the Dusk sequel chapter.

 

[Rg2045]

How about being able to operate an oathgates. If he is a radiant then he could be the person to help his organization invade roshar or at least capture the tower 

[S. Stormy she/her]

I reeeeaaally don't like the idea of Mraize bonding a spren, corrupted or otherwise.

He's too slimy!

[Odiumiumium he/him]

6 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

We've never seen Metallic use of Fortune, so it's unclear how much clarity of knowledge/information you get from it at its peak. Could be like Hoid's use of Fortune where he knows where to be but not why. With Compounding/Savantism, could be full oracular stats like when Elend burned Duralumin+Atium, or somewhere in between. 

 

As far as I know of the metallic arts, atium and its potential alloys are probably the only useful Fortune-tapping power. However, atium is not included in the table for mistings, as far as I understand. It is necessary to be a Mistborn to use atium. This could be why Mraize would like to be able to see the future, whatever way he can. 

(Era 1 and Era 2 spoiler)

Spoiler

Yes, Yomen was an atium misting, however I believe there were further clarifications that Preservation altered the table to include atium, or replace another metal. Harmony later reverted the changes to the table, and atium mistings no longer exist. By the time of the Ghostbloods, no atium mistings existed. 

(Era 1 spoiler)

Spoiler

Gold and its counterpart, electrum, do tap Fortune, but does not extend past the user. Gold shows a version of the current user if they had made different choices. Malatium does this for another person outside the user. Electrum shows the future of the user, similarly to atium, but for the user instead of the surroundings.

 

 

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

Honestly, they might have wanted it for research purposes as much as anything

[Little_Dagger she/her]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:31 PM, Rg2045 said:

How about being able to operate an oathgates. If he is a radiant then he could be to help his invade roshar or at least capture the tower 

I am not sure if the Ghostbloods have enough resources to capture the tower. As Adolin teaches Kaladin, a few individuals - even if they are shardbearers or fused - cannot hold a city by themselves. They would need an army for that. However, I like the idea of operating the oathgates: sneaking people through them without the need to travel all the way to perpendicularity sounds very valuable for an organization of worldhoppers

[Little_Dagger she/her]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:13 AM, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Honestly, they might have wanted it for research purposes as much as anything

Hmm... I wonder how much Ghostbloods know about the voidbinding. Khriss seems to know that there are ten levels of it and its relation to the Old Magic, but maybe Ghostbloods have more information (or if not, considering it to be quite important to have)?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 1.7.2022 at 5:23 PM, Yuliya said:

I agree with both but what seems interesting to me is that even though the (2) is true to any Nahel bond, he specifically requests a corrupted mistspren.

 

1. It is unclear whether they all show the same powers as Renarin bonded to Glys.
2. By getting an enlightened spren, you get the ability to manipulate Stormlight, Voidlight and presumably Warlight. Voidlight is much more durable.

On 1.7.2022 at 5:23 PM, Yuliya said:

He could have chosen a Cryptic and gain lightweaving powers, for example (which seem to be quite useful for his line of work). And yet, he prefers the uncertain pictographs of Renarin's visions instead. That makes me think that seeing the future is not so common within the Ghostbloods (otherwise, it would not give him power within the organization) and is crucial enough for their plans to bully an unmade for.

Why would he not want Progression? In combat for a small group it is an extreme advantage.

[Little_Dagger she/her]

18 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

1. It is unclear whether they all show the same powers as Renarin bonded to Glys.
2. By getting an enlightened spren, you get the ability to manipulate Stormlight, Voidlight and presumably Warlight. Voidlight is much more durable.

Why would he not want Progression? In combat for a small group it is an extreme advantage.

1) I think it is safe to assume that they do until proven otherwise since other bonds with spren of the same type work the same way.

2) I like the light manipulation idea but the problem with voidlight is that it is not easily accessible, i.e. you can't leave the spheres in an Everstorm and get them infused. So not sure if manipulating voidlight would be a strong advantage for people who seek to ship investiture off-planet in bulk. I believe a singer can create light by singing a proper rhythm but it is unclear if the same is possible for humans (Navani does learn to sing Honor's rhythm, so I would not discard the possibility entirely).

Not sure about Warlight (looking forward to finding out if Renarin or Rlain can use it). 

3) Progression is, of course, very useful to have in a group. However, I would expect Mraize to desire more self-centric abilities than healing others. Ghostbloods have a pact to not kill each other, but I think it maybe as far as their sense of camaraderie goes. The type of people who would be attracted by the organization's methods are unlikley to be a team-player type. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

37 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

1) I think it is safe to assume that they do until proven otherwise since other bonds with spren of the same type work the same way.e experiment to him

Safe for an external observer. Not safe for somebody doing the experiment to himself. Mraize has to be ready for the likelihood of any ability being transformed being 50/50.

37 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

2) I like the light manipulation idea but the problem with voidlight is that it is not easily accessible, i.e. you can't leave the spheres in an Everstorm and get them

I'd really surprised if the Ghostbloods were not aware of Gavilar's results. If you have to convert the stuff anyway, converting it to voidlight makes no difference.

37 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

3) Progression is, of course, very useful to have in a group. However, I would expect Mraize to desire more self-centric abilities than healing others. Ghostbloods have a pact to not kill each other, but I think it maybe as far as their sense of camaraderie goes. The type of people who would be attracted by the organization's methods are unlikley to be a team-player type. 

You cannot solve everything by single combat. Even the Ghostbloods will need at least groups of squad size.

[Quantus he/him]

It could be also a cultural thing.  Per WOB voidspren are going to be more receptive to things like Hemalurgy than a normal spren.  If that extends to Enlightened spren and I think it likely, he might have simply wanted the freedom that a more open-minded Spren would give.

[+Kelkamer]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:03 AM, Quantus said:

It could be also a cultural thing.  Per WOB voidspren are going to be more receptive to things like Hemalurgy than a normal spren.  If that extends to Enlightened spren and I think it likely, he might have simply wanted the freedom that a more open-minded Spren would give.

I've been wondering along these lines myself. Brandon says spren are revolted by Hemalurgic spikes but could be talked into forming a bond. I bet it'd be a lot easier for someone already spiked to bond a Voidspren or Enlightened spren. We have no reason to assume Mraize is spiked though, unless I missed something.