SP #1: A List of Everything We Learned About This World

[Fritochip]

Hey Technopathetic, this list is amazing. Thank you for all the work you put into it.

Under foods, Tress gives a meat pie so baked goods are used implying the use of ovens/stoves. Fish is served as a food in the meat pie. 

Under location, we can infer that The Rock is approximately equatorial. The moons in geosynchronous orbit would move North and South throughout the day unless they had equatorial orbits. This is the only way they would hang in the sky above The Rock. If they were at high or low latitude, the moons would show up in their Southern or Northern sky. In addition, because the Lunagri is close by, I assume that the spores fall straightish down from the moon, putting them very close to the equator. 

Also, the "seas" would bunch up under each moon due to strong tidal forces. So the area under each moon would be at a very high tide permanently and the seas would be much shallower between the moons. The Rock must be a very tall mountain to be above that tide. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Fritochip

[+Oltux72]

They know sugar in appreciable quantities. Glorf is called caramel-haired. That implies that everybody knows the color of caramel and it is made from sugar.

[cometaryorbit]

On 3/4/2022 at 8:46 AM, Nameless said:

I’m guessing that the reason for the rule is to keep people on the island. The Arthur’s are oceans, but most planets in the Cosmere aren’t dominated by the oceans. Given that and the fact that there seems to be no shortage of wood, I think it likely that there are large landmasses mostly free of spores.

If the moons are apparently in the same point in the sky all the time, they must be in an equatorial (geostationary) orbit. So the spore oceans may be only equatorial; at higher latitudes the lands and oceans might be 'normal'.

13 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

They know sugar in appreciable quantities. Glorf is called caramel-haired. That implies that everybody knows the color of caramel and it is made from sugar.

That might only mean that Hoid's audience knows it, though.

[Fritochip]

I think that the Red Ocean (on the butterfly cup) and the Crimson Ocean (that needs to be crossed to get the the Midnight Ocean) are actually two different oceans. One corresponds to the Ruby Polestone in Soulcasting and the other corresponds to the Garnet Polestone. 

[cometaryorbit]

4 hours ago, Fritochip said:

I think that the Red Ocean (on the butterfly cup) and the Crimson Ocean (that needs to be crossed to get the the Midnight Ocean) are actually two different oceans. One corresponds to the Ruby Polestone in Soulcasting and the other corresponds to the Garnet Polestone. 

Huh, that's an interesting possibility... though I don't know if the 10 Polestones are going to correspond to the apparently 12 Aethers. If the Aethers are now non-Shardic, there might no longer be "God" Aethers (Illuminous and Night) to fill out the 12.

[AquaRegia]

2 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Huh, that's an interesting possibility... though I don't know if the 10 Polestones are going to correspond to the apparently 12 Aethers. If the Aethers are now non-Shardic, there might no longer be "God" Aethers (Illuminous and Night) to fill out the 12.

The stronghold of the Sorceress is said to be in the "Midnight Sea, most dangerous of them all."

[cometaryorbit]

On 3/6/2022 at 4:09 PM, AquaRegia said:

The stronghold of the Sorceress is said to be in the "Midnight Sea, most dangerous of them all."

Oh, I think that is totally a version of the Aether of Night - I just mean that without a Shard connection, Night/Midnight and Illuminous (or its new version) might not be set off from the other Aethers any more - not 10+2 but just twelve on equal footing.

[teknopathetic]

20 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Oh, I think that is totally a version of the Aether of Night - I just mean that without a Shard connection, Night/Midnight and Illuminous (or its new version) might not be set off from the other Aethers any more - not 10+2 but just twelve on equal footing.

It would be odd if Aethers are fueling their investiture by themselves without any shardic power source. Since the spores are killed by silver, I image there is investiture involved. And since the Aethers chose this world, I assume there is an in-world reason for it.

Maybe not. Maybe Aethers can make their own investiture out of nothing or by using the ambient investiture in all worlds, but that does seem odd considering the scope of what is going on in that world. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by teknopathetic

[Frustration]

11 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

It would be odd if Aethers are fueling their investiture by themselves without any shardic power source. Since the spores are killed by silver, I image there is investiture involved. And since the Aethers chose this world, I assume there is an in-world reason for it.

Maybe not. Maybe Aethers can make their own investiture out of nothing or by using the ambient investiture in all worlds, but that does seem odd considering the scope of what is going on in that world. 

Investiture cannot be created, however, it is possible that the Aethers predate the shattering.

[teknopathetic]

13 hours ago, Frustration said:

Investiture cannot be created, however, it is possible that the Aethers predate the shattering.

I suppose created isnt the best word - But pulled from a source? Whatever Shards do that pools investiture in a place and makes the overall available amount higher than in areas without a shard present. 

[+Oltux72]

15 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

It would be odd if Aethers are fueling their investiture by themselves without any shardic power source.

Dragons, Faynlife, the sea monsters of First of the Sun, the Ire's devices ...
Why not the Aethers, too? It looks to me like our view of the Cosmere is skewed

[platnumkid]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:24 PM, platnumkid said:

RE: Geometry/Geography of the 12 Moons

• Hoid says the moons are geosynchronous but clarifies that "In other words, they never move".  So he means to say a geostationary orbit, which is either natural equatorial geosynchronous orbits or a geosynchronous orbit at some other latitude that is not just using gravitation but is using some continuous external force to maintain.
• Hoid claims you can always see one of the 12 moons no matter where you travel
• Hoid claims the moons are so low they take up one third of your field of vision.

Will do some math to try and figure if this is close to literal

In our solar system the largest moon relative to it's planet is our moon (by a large margin) at roughly 27% the diameter of earth.  If we stretch the definition of moon and planet we would come to charon and pluto where the ratio is about 50%, now we're talking about something that can take up 1/3 the night sky.

However even at that size if all 12 moons were located around the equator to make them naturally occurring geostationary orbits at the low orbit required to fill up the sky you wouldn't be able to see any of them from the poles.

So I found an equation to find the coordinates of roughly equally spaced n-points.  I plotted the results for 12 points.  It looks much more like you would imagine from the statement "you can always see one of the 12 moons no matter where you travel.

Therefore I am concluding that we have 12 geostationary moons that scattered roughly equidistance from each other around the planet, and they are using investiture to maintain their relative positions.  I haven't decided if spiritual mumbo-jumbo is required for them to maintain their spacing, of this is achieved through the use of a simple constant adjustment to their natural orbits to stay geostationary.  Maybe they used spiritual mumbo-jumbo to get in position but now don't need it.

[Johnny Silverlight]

Concerning the Iriali:

1. The Iriali lived on Tress's World long enough for their language to change so much that its earlier version is considered "Old Iriali."

2. Did the Moons/Aethers arrive at Tress's World 300 years ago, and was this the reason the Iriali decided to leave?

Edited March 8, 2022 by Johnny Silverlight

[cometaryorbit]

If they are large moons, and of conventional matter, there would need to be some active effect keeping their mutual gravitational attraction from messing up their orbits.

But if Tress's planet has an Earthlike day length and is roughly Earth sized, to fill "a third of the sky" from geosynchronous orbit would mean moons the size of a large planet (our Moon is a bit more than 10x geosynchronous orbit distance, and has an apparent size of half a degree, so would be about 5 degrees at geosynchronous distance).

So I would think either the visual appearance of the moons doesn't correlate to their real size (or Hoid is exaggerating "third of the sky"), or the moons are not conventional matter and have very little mass.

[Halyo_Alex]

4 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

or the moons are not conventional matter

I mean... I feel like that's a given, seeing how they seem to be getting gravitationally spaghettified (not quite, we aren't talking about a black hole here) into "spores" that respond to the presence of water by changing into something VASTLY different in an incredibly short timespan.

4 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

and have very little mass.

Now i'm just imagining that they're like clouds of dust that are roughly spherical and that's why the spores fall to the surface of the planet so readily.

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I mean... I feel like that's a given, seeing how they seem to be getting gravitationally spaghettified (not quite, we aren't talking about a black hole here) into "spores"

Ah, ok, I was thinking of the moons expelling the spores actively (out of their own gravity wells), like the moons were giant plants, rather than the spores being pulled off by gravity.

Quote

Now i'm just imagining that they're like clouds of dust that are roughly spherical and that's why the spores fall to the surface of the planet so readily.

Oh, yeah, that would work.

Or maybe the moons (maybe the original 'core' aethers?) are largely Cognitive entities visible on the Physical but with little mass/solidity, like seons and some spren?

[+Oltux72]

4 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Or maybe the moons (maybe the original 'core' aethers?) are largely Cognitive entities visible on the Physical but with little mass/solidity, like seons and some spren?

They produce solar eclipses. And not just as a visual thing. It gets colder. The sunlight is really blocked.

[platnumkid]

18 hours ago, platnumkid said:

Therefore I am concluding that we have 12 geostationary moons that scattered roughly equidistance from each other around the planet, and they are using investiture to maintain their relative positions.  I haven't decided if spiritual mumbo-jumbo is required for them to maintain their spacing, of this is achieved through the use of a simple constant adjustment to their natural orbits to stay geostationary.  Maybe they used spiritual mumbo-jumbo to get in position but now don't need it.

Confirmed in the live stream (they are working on the scientific justification for the non-equatorial geostationary orbit).
Also from the live stream, someone from the planet has tried to go to the moons, but tress doesn't know about that.
Each moon has different coloured spores

[bmcclure7]

On 3/3/2022 at 0:28 PM, teknopathetic said:

Coppermind

⁷

 

On 3/4/2022 at 7:30 AM, Oltux72 said:

The young man uses a variant of his name as an alias. And Tress/Glorf refers to that scheme later in the story. If Hoid were to use the original pair of names, he'd risk that his listener would not get the connection. Hence he substitutes the real name with something the listener knows. Probably Tress is not called literally "Tress" but in equivalent in her own language.

It seems to me that we are looking at steam engines they use to operate equipment presumably over a system of belts and shafts.

So what happens if you just pour water over spores?

 

Something bad

[cometaryorbit]

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

They produce solar eclipses. And not just as a visual thing. It gets colder. The sunlight is really blocked.

True, but I mean, do seons cast shadows? They are visible to everyone, I think, not selectively like some Rosharan spren.

I don't think we know enough about the rules for Cognitive entities 'shadowed on the Physical' to rule out the possibility of a core-aether-moon really blocking light but having a mass/density vastly lower than we'd expect for a regular Physical matter solid.

[cometaryorbit]

3 hours ago, platnumkid said:

Confirmed in the live stream (they are working on the scientific justification for the non-equatorial geostationary orbit).

Hmm. That is super weird. I think that would require an active force keeping it that way - a RL geostationary orbit is equatorial. There are non-equatorial geosynchronous (orbital period = one day) orbits, but they don't stay continuously over one point on the Earth's surface.

[teknopathetic]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

Hmm. That is super weird. I think that would require an active force keeping it that way - a RL geostationary orbit is equatorial. There are non-equatorial geosynchronous (orbital period = one day) orbits, but they don't stay continuously over one point on the Earth's surface.

Maybe the spores falling to the ground is giving the moons some kind of propulsion? 

[cometaryorbit]

47 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Maybe the spores falling to the ground is giving the moons some kind of propulsion? 

Like a rocket exhaust, holding them up directly - so they're not even in orbit really,  just hovering?

In RL that wouldn't be nearly close to enough, but if the aether moons are some kind of mostly-not-Physical "matter" like seons so their real mass is miniscule, maybe.

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

Like a rocket exhaust, holding them up directly - so they're not even in orbit really,  just hovering?

In RL that wouldn't be nearly close to enough, but if the aether moons are some kind of mostly-not-Physical "matter" like seons so their real mass is miniscule, maybe.

MOONSPREN.

[teknopathetic]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

Like a rocket exhaust, holding them up directly - so they're not even in orbit really,  just hovering?

In RL that wouldn't be nearly close to enough, but if the aether moons are some kind of mostly-not-Physical "matter" like seons so their real mass is miniscule, maybe.

The spores could even me related to whatever is being used to fuel the moon's orbit?