Rings of Power

[Mulk he/him]

On 9/19/2022 at 10:21 PM, Channelknight Fadran said:

Just watched Episode 4 a tad late

(thoughts and spoilers):

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Things that cause me cortisol:

I don't think Numenor was supposed to boat out to Middle-Earth ever? Although I can see Pharazon doing something sneaky next episode to stop them.

The thing about the palantir being lost was false. They weren't even called palantir yet, I don't think. Isildur brought all seven to middle-earth with him on their voyage to escape the whole "Numenor got wasted by the gods" thing.

Things that cause me dopamine:

Durin gifted Elrond mithril.
The Elven Ring of Air has mithril as its inset stone.
Reeeeeeeeee

Continuing on the line of dwarves:
THE DOOR OPENED TO A MINING SONG! IF THAT ISN'T THE MOST DWARVEN THING IN THE ENTIRE EVER THEN I DUNNO WHAT IS.

(I like the dwarves. A lot)
(Also I should note that while most dwarves didn't take part in the war against Sauron, Durin's folk did)

The scene when Theo was hiding from the orcs in the village? Meaning the super long one-take? EXCELLENT. 11/11 would recommend.

Questions I still have:

Who's the orc father guy? At first I thought he might be Sauron himself but then he was like "I don't have a god yet" and it was like ehhhhh

Pretty sure the sketchy dude following the not-hobbits around is Sauron? I know there's a camp of folks who disagree but I don't see how you can have a fire-based maiar and not say it's Sauron.

Are the other rings forged yet or no? It's kinda unclear as to how the timeline of all their creations pan out. Given that the show is called Rings of Power, though, I feel like they'll give us a really nice cinematic for when they do get forged, so I imagine they're not around yet.

Are Alatar and Pellendo ever gonna show up?

 

 

my responses

Spoiler

Regarding your thoughts on Numenor - in the lore they go to Middle-Earth many times over the course of the Second Age.  First as benefactors.  Then as conquerors. Then as tyrants even to the point of taking slaves back to Numenor for sacrifice.  Numenor goes VERY dark at the end which is why it falls.

Regarding the palantir - the palantiri were gifted by the Elves from Valinor to Elendil's father in the lore in one of their last visits to Numenor.  Miriel would be Elendil's third or fourth cousin and thus not in his immediate family so it's plausible that she and her father do not know where the other six are; I suspect the Faithful have them all secreted somewhere.  One interesting bit - the seventh of these stones was different than the rest.  It didn't talk to the others and could not be compelled to look elsewhere in Middle-Earth, it looked ever westward.  I would imagine this is the one they grabbed for that scene.  Perhaps the Faithful gifted it to Tar Palantir because he was a seer in this show.

I fully agree on the Dwarves.  It's the best storyline going currently, imo.  I thought the whole village/Theo thing was pretty good, though I quibble about his bursting out of the water in the well with that much noise and gasping, lol. 

Regarding your questions:

The orc father guy is still unclear.  My kneejerk reaction which I don't believe is true was Maglor, the only one of the named Elves you could call bad in the First Age who survived beyond the War of Wrath as nearly as we can tell.  I reject that because Maglor and his brothers truly hated Morgoth and despite all their other problems they never served or allied with Morgoth or Sauron. Maglor also fostered Elrond and his brother Elros and reportedly they had a good relationship.  To fall in with Sauron doesn't feel right to me given what I know of him, but the fact remains, he vanished after chunking a Silmaril into the ocean and was basically never seen again.

I think there is no way the guy with the Harfoots is Sauron.  He'll turn out to be Istari of some sort. I'm hoping not Gandalf, there are writings from Tolkien suggesting the Blue Wizards are on the scene in the Second Age so maybe one of those.  Sauron is certainly already manifest and working elsewhere, he's not trying to learn how to speak and walk in the middle of nowhere.  There are loads of fire-based Maiar.  One of them carries the Sun across the sky in Tolkien's legendarium. Many of them become Balrogs.  Sauron isn't fire-based per se, or at least it never says he is in the Silmarillion - he was a smith in his origins, working for Aule the creator of the Dwarves.

I think none of the rings have been forged yet.  Celebrimbor's tower/forge will need to be completed first.  I think (and there's nothing in the show that says this specifically yet) that he's already talking to Sauron about how to forge the Rings but doesn't know he's bad/evil.  The Rings themselves I don't think will be on stage until either the last episode of this season or early next season.  I rather think it would be a cool way to polish off season 1, to see the first Ring of Power.

My thoughts on all this are encyclopedic, lol. I'm trying to stay brief.
 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Mulk
added text

[Channelknight Fadran]

Episode 5 analysis and spoilers and such:

Spoiler

• Hobbits just casually quoting Bilbo in their song??? Um??? Made me so happy???
• Tryna decide which wizard the stranger is. So far I'm leaning between one of the Blues or Saruman, though the fact that he's hanging out with the hobbits makes it so that I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be Gandalf. He certainly isn't Sauron, like I originally assumed.
• Dwarves plotline continues to be amazing. That Durin actor just carries, man.
• Meanwhile in Numenor: absolutely solid sword fight scene. There was a decent amount of extras seemingly just waiting for their cues to attack, but Galadriel being slick and awesome made up for it. I'm also glad they let that one guy get a hit on her; it always bothers me when a single, somewhat annoying character is just absolutely invincible the entire time.
• I'm pretty sure that Halbrand is Theo's father. Considering he was all "you don't know what I did to survive" mirrored by everyone talking smack about Theo's dad, I think it fits narratively.
• It does bother me that they're making him out to be so much like Aragorn though.

 

[Trutharchivist he/him]

All right. I know, just two days to the next episode, but...

Spoiler

A. The Harfoots are now probably my favourite storyline, and I definitely wasn't bought of by their beautiful walking song. It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

B. Elrond and Durin... Well, my main problem is the supposed silmaril. Like everyone who read the Silmarilion knows, the story Elrond told Gil-Galad is problematic for various reasons. And I'm still unclear on whether Elrond broke his oath? Also, in general, some people could stand more characterization, I think.

C. Galadriel and Nùmenor. Galadriel is an insufferable know-it-all who doesn't know half as much as she thinks she does; Pharazon shows he's still the jerk who's going to lead Nùmenor to its fall; that guy burnt a ship, because his girlfriend didn't want her brother to die in the upcoming war? Or did I misunderstand some things? And Isildur has no actual sense of responsibility and makes no sense whatsoever.

D. The elf tower and the southern lands, AKA Mordor. Not much to say, really. Some guys decide to trust Sauron/whoever this Adar is? Who is this Adar guy, really? Because... Well, I'm actually unsure on when in the timeline Sauron took Mordor as his realm. They compressed the timeline, though, which explains quite a lot of things.

 

[S. Stormy she/her]

I was, long ago, a LotR nerd, that one ridiculously obsessed fan of LotR. I've never read the Silmarillion though(I might one day? but I don't know), and I'm now the Stormlight girl. Heh. So, I don't know much about the lore. Sadly. I am ashamed.

 

Anyway, I have but one thing to say about episode 5 that I loved(and that song!! that song was SO STORMING PRETTY):

Spoiler

Theo told someone about the evil magic artifact that he had! I didn't think he would, and then he did, and it made me so happy! People never tell people about the evil magic stuff they have!!!

 

Is that just me?(just me that thinks that. Not just me that hides my evil magic.)

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Shallan Stormblessed

[Channelknight Fadran]

On 9/28/2022 at 5:03 AM, Trutharchivist said:

All right. I know, just two days to the next episode, but...

  Hide contents

A. The Harfoots are now probably my favourite storyline, and I definitely wasn't bought of by their beautiful walking song. It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

B. Elrond and Durin... Well, my main problem is the supposed silmaril. Like everyone who read the Silmarilion knows, the story Elrond told Gil-Galad is problematic for various reasons. And I'm still unclear on whether Elrond broke his oath? Also, in general, some people could stand more characterization, I think.

C. Galadriel and Nùmenor. Galadriel is an insufferable know-it-all who doesn't know half as much as she thinks she does; Pharazon shows he's still the jerk who's going to lead Nùmenor to its fall; that guy burnt a ship, because his girlfriend didn't want her brother to die in the upcoming war? Or did I misunderstand some things? And Isildur has no actual sense of responsibility and makes no sense whatsoever.

D. The elf tower and the southern lands, AKA Mordor. Not much to say, really. Some guys decide to trust Sauron/whoever this Adar is? Who is this Adar guy, really? Because... Well, I'm actually unsure on when in the timeline Sauron took Mordor as his realm. They compressed the timeline, though, which explains quite a lot of things.

 

Spoiler

A: Yes. The song. PRETYYYYYY

B: Well, one of the Silmarils was lost to the sea, the second was lost to fire, and the third was given to Earendil to sail among the stars forever. The on that Earendil took was the one that Beren nabbed from Morgoth, and it's unclear as to what happened to it in-between those events. I'm willing to suspend my belief and say that they hid it in a tree for awhile.

C: The ship-burner guy was burning the ship because Pharazon's a little screwhead. Also yeah, Isildur's kinda an idiot. But that's probably on purpose thus far.

D: Sauron kinda half-took Mordor before the Numenoreans snatched him. I think Barad-Dur was completed by the time he got back? I'd have to double-check, but it definitely isn't Mordor yet in the show.

 

[Trutharchivist he/him]

4 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

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A: Yes. The song. PRETYYYYYY

B: Well, one of the Silmarils was lost to the sea, the second was lost to fire, and the third was given to Earendil to sail among the stars forever. The on that Earendil took was the one that Beren nabbed from Morgoth, and it's unclear as to what happened to it in-between those events. I'm willing to suspend my belief and say that they hid it in a tree for awhile.

C: The ship-burner guy was burning the ship because Pharazon's a little screwhead. Also yeah, Isildur's kinda an idiot. But that's probably on purpose thus far.

D: Sauron kinda half-took Mordor before the Numenoreans snatched him. I think Barad-Dur was completed by the time he got back? I'd have to double-check, but it definitely isn't Mordor yet in the show.

 

Spoiler

B. I'm sorry, but this still makes no sense. This Silmaril actually does have an elaborate story - it was taken by Beren, then his hand got swallowed by a werewolf who got crazy because bad people who touch Silmarils get burnt, then this werewolf was hunted and killed and got the Silmaril extracted from him. Then the Silmaril stayed in Menegroth for a long time.

Then Thingol asked the dwarves to place it in the jewel Hùrin giftd him, but they betrayed him, slayed him and went back to the mountains with the Silmaril, only to be intercepted by Beren, Lùthien and a bunch of green elves. Then Lùthien wore it until her death, at which point it was sent to her son Dior. Then the sons of Fëanor committed the second kinslaying, and Elwing (Dior's daughter) went with the Silmaril to those docks of Cìrdan, where Earendil already lived (I think). They got married, and when the third kinslaying happened she became a swan and took the Silmaril to her husband, from which point we all know what happened with it.

Plus, this Silmaril seems to have been lost forever in this tree, not extracted afterwards by someone of Elrond's ancestors.

Everything else you say has merit, though. And to be fair, yes, Pharazon's a little screwhead. Which makes you wonder how he raised a son that had more sense than him.

Sorry about the Silmaril point, but... It just makes no sense to me.

 

[Channelknight Fadran]

I have been reeducated. Arigato.

[S. Stormy she/her]

Episode 6

Spoiler

Is that what would happen if you poured a river into a volcano?

[jamesbondsmith He/him]

I finally got round to starting the show, and after two episodes, I'm liking it.

It is a little generic at times, but LOTR is basically the original that a lot of generic fantasy is accused of ripping off. It's like someone nowadays stumbling onto a seminal work of art decades after people have built on the foundations that art created (or at least popularised), like listening to the first rock bands from the 60s fifty years later, or Superman after decades of superstrong flyers in comics.

Spoiler

As for Meteor Man, my early guess is that he's Radagast. Two of his major magical moments have involved plants and animals, which is what Radagast focused on if I remember correctly.
Edit: More research says the Wizards didn't arrive until the 3rd age, but it was in a book that Amazon doesn't have the rights to. Would that make a loophole where they can bring him in earlier, because they can't use the factual timing?

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by jamesbondsmith

[Channelknight Fadran]

Episode 6 Stuff

Spoiler

It was a really long battle episode! Who can say not to that?

I really disliked how they made it super gory. Of course, what I mean by that is that it was really good. I try to really establish the horror and uncertainty of battle into my own works, so I'm glad that the directors here didn't choose to go with the whole "everyone dies a somewhat uninteresting death except for the protagonists." They really pulled out all the stops for Bronwyn's arrow situation, which I appreciated in the sense that it was absolutely awful.

Did the Numenoreans take Ethir Anduin up to not-Mordor? I'm double-checking the map because I found it hard to believe that they could get to the town just in time to save everybody. A day's sailing up the river I can imagine, but riding across the entire plains to Orodruin I find a little hard to believe. It took Frodo and Sam weeks to get to the mountains from where they dropped off the elven river. It looks to me like it's upwards of a hundred miles from Osgiliath to Orodruin, which a bunch of horses could conceivably run in a day at full speed, but you'd be hard-pressed to get them to be completely battle-ready by the time you got there.

But these are westeresse horses we're talking about. They're probably made of something else.

Anyways, I have gone from 80% convinced that Harbrand is Sauron to 95% convinced that Harbrand is Sauron. The uruk guy saying that he killed Sauron and Harbrand being all "remember me?" was almost too much, even. Especially given that he's "king of the southlands" and that Annatar was known as "king of middle-earth" - not to mention that Sauron has always shown himself as a fair, beautiful person (y'all can't convince me that Harbrand isn't hot). I guess I was proven wrong on my other theory that he was Theo's father... oh well.

(Personally I would've ended the episode with the massive river attacc coming up on the mountain and not starting off the big explosions, but that's just me. It's just that seeing Mount Doom pre-KABOOM was kinda awesome and I'd have liked to end it off on a teaser).

Overall: Pretty great. Keep them coming.

 

[SpinningSky he/him]

9 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Episode 6 Stuff

  Hide contents

It was a really long battle episode! Who can say not to that?

I really disliked how they made it super gory. Of course, what I mean by that is that it was really good. I try to really establish the horror and uncertainty of battle into my own works, so I'm glad that the directors here didn't choose to go with the whole "everyone dies a somewhat uninteresting death except for the protagonists." They really pulled out all the stops for Bronwyn's arrow situation, which I appreciated in the sense that it was absolutely awful.

Did the Numenoreans take Ethir Anduin up to not-Mordor? I'm double-checking the map because I found it hard to believe that they could get to the town just in time to save everybody. A day's sailing up the river I can imagine, but riding across the entire plains to Orodruin I find a little hard to believe. It took Frodo and Sam weeks to get to the mountains from where they dropped off the elven river. It looks to me like it's upwards of a hundred miles from Osgiliath to Orodruin, which a bunch of horses could conceivably run in a day at full speed, but you'd be hard-pressed to get them to be completely battle-ready by the time you got there.

But these are westeresse horses we're talking about. They're probably made of something else.

Anyways, I have gone from 80% convinced that Harbrand is Sauron to 95% convinced that Harbrand is Sauron. The uruk guy saying that he killed Sauron and Harbrand being all "remember me?" was almost too much, even. Especially given that he's "king of the southlands" and that Annatar was known as "king of middle-earth" - not to mention that Sauron has always shown himself as a fair, beautiful person (y'all can't convince me that Harbrand isn't hot). I guess I was proven wrong on my other theory that he was Theo's father... oh well.

(Personally I would've ended the episode with the massive river attacc coming up on the mountain and not starting off the big explosions, but that's just me. It's just that seeing Mount Doom pre-KABOOM was kinda awesome and I'd have liked to end it off on a teaser).

Overall: Pretty great. Keep them coming.

 

 

spoilers for EP 6

Spoiler

I think the mixing of the speech and the "Numpat" chant\song and the whole scene was one of the best beginnings of an episode I've ever seen. I was on the edge of my seat 

But I do think the episode was slowing down way to much in all the emotional speeches and such, but I definitly agree with you the losseses and swings of the battle felt real, probably thanks to the small scale, it was great

 

I was personally really distracted by how the Numenorian arrived (I'm really not one of those who's trying to hate this series for the sake of it).
I was really confused on how they were supposed to know that there was an imminent battle happening, so much so that they ran I don't know how many miles at full gallop, I mean even the people at Osthirith didn't know when the full attack would be until it started... did I miss something? The scene was really cool, but I think they could have built up to it better

 

Everything really does some to point at Harbrand being Sauron doesn't it? The only thing that doesn't make sense is that sometimes he seems to be having really emotional reactions, and I can't see Sauron acting like that, so is he faking? it'd be weird... maybe he has some ties to Sauron, without actually being the guy? Could he turn out to be the Mouth of Sauron? 
(also, next time I visit a small town, I'll bring a fancy pin and say I'll be king, chances are I'll get free drinks )

 

I did not fully understand the fill background of the whole sword\volcano thing right after I watched the episode, when I actually saw it analysed in a video later I was amazed by how smart the whole thing was.
The intepretation of what happened, I'll share to see if you guys agree, is that the sword was used to to provide water to the southlands, people were supposed to make sacrifices (thus drawing blood) and put the sword in the keyhole to bring water to their cities, so whoever was holding the sword would also hold their livelihood, and that's how Sauron made them loyal to him.
Then Mr Uruk made the tunnels to turn this into a volcano making system

Do you guys think that could actually work, that river makes volcano explode thing?

 

But yes, great episode overall, I really like the series, I think it's depressing how much it's being hated overall

 

 

[ash's_eyes she/her]

I read the Hobbit and LOTR a few years ago, and I've been meaning to get back into it. I am not familiar with the lore at all, so it doesn't bother me when the show strays from it. I've actually enjoyed it a lot so far!

I know that this is really trivial, but does it bother anyone else that Galadriel barely opens her mouth when she talks?

[Channelknight Fadran]

Episode 6 mini-spoilers (but also definitely spoilers)

Spoiler

Would a river make a volcano erupt?

Real life? No.

But I can totally see Tolkien writing something like that.

Quote

The river flooded throughout the orc-tunnels, from the Anduin throughout the land of men. It rushed past and through into the deepest caves, from darkness into fire, and awoke the ancient strength of the far mountain. Its flame spewed outwards and far, the ashes of udun spreading to even the mountainsides, leaving the landscape barren and lost. Thus were the men's Southlands become the Plateau of Gorgoroth, and the great mountain into Orodruin: the mountain of fire.

Except his version would actually be good

 

[S. Stormy she/her]

3 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Real life? No.

According to this article, something would happen:

Spoiler

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/rings-of-power-mt-doom-volcano-water-real-1235230089/

 

[Mulk he/him]

 

Spoiler

Agreed, something would happen. At the very least that amount of water flashing to steam (there wasn't nearly enough to cool the magma pool off completely) would cause an explosion.  Whether that by itself would be enough to trigger a full volcanic eruption?  *shrugs*

I do get a bit annoyed by the warping around the landscape that is such a trope of modern fantasy production.  Now, it may be that the Numenorean storyline is on a different schedule than the Southlands timeline, it's just that intercutting them makes it look like they are happening side by side.  Numenor, even if they are the greatest sailors with the fastest sailing ships ever seen should take at least 10 days to get to Middle Earth, another day to reach the Third Age site of Osgiliath, a day to disembark and head up Cirith Ungol or whatever its Second Age name is, and probably another day or so to the south once they cross into not-yet-Mordor. There's no absolute measurements available but that's about the best estimate I can give it.  Tolkien was so precise with the movements of his armies and companies that it makes the rough handling in other stories or in things like the Jackson trilogy kinda stick out.  There is a great breakdown of Pelennor Fields and of Helms Deep in a blog online - direct link to the Siege of Gondor here and be warned, it is a long read, dealing at length with premodern warfare, the books and the movies: https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondor/

They did this with Elrond and Durin basically porting from Khazad-dum to Lindon and back (I'd guess this is at least three weeks' walk one way and that is a very rough estimate), but as that storyline is kinda happening off to the side it's not as big a deal. At a certain point I just shrug and go along with it (especially true if I'm enjoying the story) but it always sticks out to me some.

Waldreg, man.  Didn't take him long to go full villain.  Heck of a misdirect too.  I don't have a problem with them knowing where to go once they are in Mordor, the night battle ahead of their arrival had plenty of light for Galadriel to see at range and they had a general area to head towards to start with.

Regarding Halbrand, I think it more likely he's the future King of the Dead or perhaps a Nazgul.  Sauron I am convinced has not been seen on screen and is orchestrating the Elves' relative panic and desire for mithril.  He's hoodwinked Celebrimbor and by extension Gil-Galad.

 

[Trutharchivist he/him]

Finally watched episode 6! And just in time for episode 7, I guess. huh.

Anyway, spoilers:

Spoiler

I actually liked the episode. The arrival of the Numenorean cavalry was a bit weird, and the volcano eruption was probably artistic liscensed, but except for that it was fine.

The whole king situation felt a bit weird. I do think that Helbrand is Sauron - if we've seen Sauron by now, at least. If so, he was extremely cunning. Frodo said in LotR that he'll expect a servant of the Enemy to look fair and feel foul; Helbrand doesn't seem all that fair (outside appearance aside), neither does he feel particularly fouler than, say, Strider.

The last episode went as downhill as possible lore wise. This episode... Is kind of better in that respect...? I think? Apparently mentioning Yavanna by name is forbidden (unless Arondir is simply of the moriquendi and thus never met the Valar and doesn't know their names? Or maybe I go too far...), but talking about corrupted elves (or uruks, because that father guy said so) is allowed? I don't remember what the Appendices mention and what they don't in that respect.

 

[Channelknight Fadran]

Episode 7

Spoiler

Continues to be hecking epic. Only complaints are ones I'm giving ahead of time because how did they heal Halbrand without even in a med scene? It was just... "ah, elvish magic" and BAM - fixed. I guess they were probably crunching for time but I still think it was a bit dumb not even to allude to them having healed him.

Creepy silver guy: What's he doing, going around claiming my "who's Sauron" theories? I totally thought it was Halbrand for sure until the silver boi literally snagged the fire with his bare hands. Did you know that Sauron was never written as having any weapons other than his "fiery fists"? Like, that's his whole thing.

How dare. I liked my theories.

Anyways. Volcanoes are awesome. Freaky ash makeup is awesome. Was hoping for a bit more stabby-stabby slashy-slashy but it's probably for the best that they didn't put any more in there.

Have I mentioned that I don't like Theo? I dunno. He just bothers me. Just a peeve. I can't really take any of his emotional/character dev scenes seriously because of it.

Overall: awesome. Hoping that the big boy is Gandalf for story reasons but also I'd be annoyed because he's most similar to Radagast. Kinda wrote themselves into a corner there. Mordor is epic.

See y'all on the next one.

 

[SpinningSky he/him]

episode 7 spoilers:

 

Spoiler

I liked the episode overall, though the transition of the namecard from "Southlands" to "Mordor" was a bit tacky. Might as well put a Hollywood style sign with "Mordor" written on it if they wanted to make it stupid xD

but I loved it overall

 

Question for everyone who watched: did you feel like there was something corrupted about Durin's wife in her speech after he fights with his father?

To me what she said, but also something in her eyes, felt a bit like she could be slowly being corrupted by the Balrog, or something like that, or is it only a feeling I got?

 

[NameIess]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:58 PM, Channelknight Fadran said:

Episode 7

  Reveal hidden contents

Continues to be hecking epic. Only complaints are ones I'm giving ahead of time because how did they heal Halbrand without even in a med scene? It was just... "ah, elvish magic" and BAM - fixed. I guess they were probably crunching for time but I still think it was a bit dumb not even to allude to them having healed him.

Creepy silver guy: What's he doing, going around claiming my "who's Sauron" theories? I totally thought it was Halbrand for sure until the silver boi literally snagged the fire with his bare hands. Did you know that Sauron was never written as having any weapons other than his "fiery fists"? Like, that's his whole thing.

How dare. I liked my theories.

Anyways. Volcanoes are awesome. Freaky ash makeup is awesome. Was hoping for a bit more stabby-stabby slashy-slashy but it's probably for the best that they didn't put any more in there.

Have I mentioned that I don't like Theo? I dunno. He just bothers me. Just a peeve. I can't really take any of his emotional/character dev scenes seriously because of it.

Overall: awesome. Hoping that the big boy is Gandalf for story reasons but also I'd be annoyed because he's most similar to Radagast. Kinda wrote themselves into a corner there. Mordor is epic.

See y'all on the next one.

 

Spoiler

I don't think Halbrand's cured yet. I'm guessing he has a hole in one of his organs or just a plain old infection. Also, I'm almost certain that he's Sauron now. I don't know what silver guy's deal is, but I just can't see him as Sauron. 

 

On 10/10/2022 at 7:33 AM, SpinningSky said:

episode 7 spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

I liked the episode overall, though the transition of the namecard from "Southlands" to "Mordor" was a bit tacky. Might as well put a Hollywood style sign with "Mordor" written on it if they wanted to make it stupid xD

but I loved it overall

 

Question for everyone who watched: did you feel like there was something corrupted about Durin's wife in her speech after he fights with his father?

To me what she said, but also something in her eyes, felt a bit like she could be slowly being corrupted by the Balrog, or something like that, or is it only a feeling I got?

 

Spoiler

Definitely. That whole speech was giving off evil vibes.

 

[Mulk he/him]

theories and commentary, spoilers up to episode 7
 

Spoiler

Regarding the Numenor/Southlands storyline - it's really odd Miriel called her father Ar-Inziladun.  That's not a thing the Faithful would have done.  Taking their names in Adunaic (that being the common tongue of the Numenoreans) was a sign the kings rejected the rule of the Valar and the friendship of the Eldar.  When Miriel refers in the first episode to her...I think she said sixth grandfather or great grandfather, that there have been no Elves there since then, I'm pretty sure she refers to Ar-Adunakhor the first king to do this and his name is even more ill-omened as it means literally Lord or King of the West.  only Manwe in Valinor might be worthy of such a title.  When Inziladun came to the throne his took his name as Tar-Palantir (Quenya, not Adunaic) and while I'm sure the Kingsmen still referred to him as Inziladun, I don't believe he ever referred to himself or used Ar-Inziladun as his title.  That's a bit unsettling.

Tar-Palantir's prophecy to his daughter has quite literally come true.  Only darkness did await her.  And she seems to be doubling down on that.  I...kinda think this may be the beginning of the true arming of Numenor. Also, I rather expect Tar-Palantir to die while they are away in Middle Earth and that Pharazon will have taken steps so that he can supplant Miriel.

The mention of Pelargir was interesting to me.  That was one of the first places the Numenoreans made a permanent settlement. I'm not sure if it will be abandoned in the show or not but it eventually becomes a major city of Gondor after its founding.   Halbrand I am still convinced is not Sauron, but the future King of the Dead.  There's enough dark in there to violate an oath and enough light to eventually come around to fulfill it.  That he needs Elvish medicine..as near as I can tell the nearest Elven settlement to where they are is either in what we think of as Lorien though it's not named that at this point or an unnamed Elven settlement that used to exist somewhere near Dol Amroth.  Lorien is far more suggestive so that's my vote for their heading.

Regarding the Harfoot/Stranger storyline - at this point they're somewhere north east of where the Black Gate will be in the Third Age.  Greenwood the Great is the old name of Mirkwood before it went dark and Sauron took up residency in Dol Guldur.  So they're heading back west and probably north.  I still think the Stranger is a Blue Wizard.  Those crazy cultists...I'm not sure if they're from Sauron or somewhere else but they are EVIL.  I still have no idea where this storyline is going but I'm there for the ride.

Regarding Durin/Elrond - I love this storyline and setting so much.  The relationship between Durin and Elrond is the best one they have going right now.  You can feel how much they care. I want more.  As soon as the leaf fell through the hole I called the Balrog scene lol. I really hope the Balrog itself doesn't come into play anywhere in here, the lore says they awaken the Balrog in the time of Durin the VI who is many kings and a couple thousand years on from where we are now. 

I still don't know what to make of the mithril thing cause that is a full on fabrication.  My hope is that it's something Sauron has convinced the Elves of, that it can solve all their ills because he really wants mithril for some reason.  It is known from LOTR that Sauron coveted mithril, the orcs rounded up all of it they could and gave it in tribute to Sauron as a result. 

I don't think Sauron has been seen on screen yet. 

 

[Trutharchivist he/him]

Well, Ep7:

Spoiler

I, sadly, am a bit on the negative side. The mithril obviously does what the elves think it does, and it makes no sense. The whole Silmaril story is quite impossible in the lore as we know it.

That aside, Elrond and Durin the 4th's friendship is great. The only problem is... It is Durin the 4th, and the Balrog will kill him at some point. That's the price of timeline compression.

From what we've seen so far, I doubt that Amazon would stick to the source material as much as to make the stranger a blue wizard. They'll want a recognisable name, and they'll find it in Radagast the Brown. His pursuers are a complete mystery to me, though.

Halbrand is not healed, but sure he can comfortably ride a horse! No problem with that! That's a tad weird, considering. Him being the king of the dead makes a lot of sense, Sauron... A tad less so. We probably still haven't seen Sauron, I hope for an Anatar reveal at the end of the season.

And now we know where's Celeborn. And it makes little sense, considering the fact he's of the Laiquendi, and so probably didn't fight in the War if Wrath. But maybe I'm just being an idiot.

Disa came off as power hungry in the end. Very much so. I don't know if it was intended to be this way, but I sure hope so.

I really wanted the name change to go like "no, it's not the South Lands anymore. It's the Dark Lands." And then have a Mordor sign, because there are people who don't know that this is what it means in... Sindarin, I think?

I also don't see how the relations between the elves and the dwarves are ever going to work. Obviously, what they'll do is have Durin the 3rd die in a way that'll have the 4th on the throne, but I'm not sure how much sense it'd make.

 

[Mulk he/him]

1 hour ago, Trutharchivist said:

Well, Ep7:

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I, sadly, am a bit on the negative side. The mithril obviously does what the elves think it does, and it makes no sense. The whole Silmaril story is quite impossible in the lore as we know it.That aside, Elrond and Durin the 4th's friendship is great. The only problem is... It is Durin the 4th, and the Balrog will kill him at some point. That's the price of timeline compression.

 

response:

Spoiler

Durin VI was the one slain by the Balrog, not Durin IV and it happened well into the Third Age.  I'm hoping the Balrog doesn't figure importantly into these events but...we'll see I guess.  I am with you on the mithril stuff, though I'm trying to keep an open mind.

1 hour ago, Trutharchivist said:

 

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And now we know where's Celeborn. And it makes little sense, considering the fact he's of the Laiquendi, and so probably didn't fight in the War if Wrath. But maybe I'm just being an idiot.

 

response:

Spoiler

Celeborn was supposed to be a kinsman of Thingol of Doriath and thus Sindar, not Laiquendi.  That he escaped the ruin/sinking of Beleriand and wandered until he arrived in Lorien or somewhere else is a story I can accept as plausible though I think it's likely not something Tolkien would intend us to conclude.

The bigger issue with Celeborn joining in the War of Wrath is that the Silmarillion is pretty specific that the Elves living in Middle-Earth did not fight, though many legions of those living in Valinor did.  The remaining men of the Three Houses of the Edain did, and that is one reason they were granted Numenor. It would have made so much sense to say they were separated in the fall and slaughter of those in Doriath. Oh well.  Chalk that up to 'they didn't have the rights for that' or something.  It would be really interesting to know how many lore changes or perceived lore changes arise from not having the rights to certain things.

 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

Did it drop an hour early, or am I crazy? I started watching at 9:50ish Mountain Time, but I thought it released at 10:00 (once again MT).

Going to Spoiler this, but not really spoilers:

Spoiler

I loved this, so much. It was a great ending for a series I was only hesitantly positive about (6.5-7/10, maybe 8-8.5 for the best episodes), and I felt like it wrapped everything up really well.

Actual spoilers:

Spoiler

I was not happy when the Cultists (the show had a weird name for them, but I don't really remember it) said the Stranger was Sauron, and was very skeptical when Halbrand (who's acter did amazing in this episode) started acting how he did and helping in the ways he helped. Imagine how vindicated I felt when Halbrand was confirmed to be evil, and the moment with the Stranger (Potential Gandalf from here on out) raised the Eye staff felt really cool, and I probably would have been fine with it being Sauron embracing his darker side to save Nori, then leaving to fulfill his fate, but the calling him an Istar(i?) was very good along with the destroying of the staff. I was slightly jarred by the full sentences, and it bugged me, but not that much. The Numénor storyline this episode was eh, didn't get the closure I would have liked, but whatever.

And the song at the end, I know that song, I have song it, and wow does it give a closure to the ring storyline. The singing itself was very good, too good for me to sing along well, but it got the tone right, that's for sure.

9. Overall series is probably in the sevens though. 

 

 

[Trutharchivist he/him]

All right, final episode in the season:

Spoiler

This was a pretty good episode! Misdirection in who Sauron is, though no one liked the idea of the stranger being him. Now Fadran will be able to go all "I've told you so" on us.

The way Halbrand/Sauron acts makes some sense, though he did convince the Nùmenoreans to worship Morgoth, so I don't know.

My biggest problem with the episode is how it makes the Mithril forging issue the secrets of the rings that Sauron taught the elves of Eregion. The whole usage of Mithril is problematic, IMO - only one of the three rings was made from it. In addition, the forging was way too quick, and skipped the fact that all of the nineteen were forged in Eregion.

By the way, Sauron technically never lied to Galadriel; I'm pretty sure he himself never claimed to be the king of the Southlands (which are peculiarly not named Harad).

In relation to the stranger, I now have a stronger reasoning behind why I think he isn't Gandalf: in the original book, Gandalf said when speaking about different names he's called by: "to the East I go not". The east - Rhûn. That makes me think that it is a Blue wizard, though I doubted it at first, because they decidedly operate in Rhûn and Harad, IIRC.

Anyway, I actually quite liked this episode in general, the song in the ending was a nice touch, though a bit of a weird one. I'm probably going to watch the next season when it comes out.

 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

Everything:

Spoiler

I forgot to say, one of the Bronwyn, Arondir, Theo (probably not Theo, he's important and mildly interesting) should have died in the 6-7-8 stretch.

It would have raised the tension, which I've seen some people complain about. It would have been a great motivation/character arc for whoever didn't die (probably Arondir), and it would have given more weight to the Mount Doom (oh cool that's —wait—did Bronwyn and Isildur just die) or the attack (sense of every wound being healed just fine).