How to use Connection to Strengthen Your Magic.

[Trusk'our]

One of the ways that you can increase your Connection to a Shard of Adonalsium is by taking certain actions that line up with that Shard’s Intent. For instance, we see in Mistborn: Secret History that Kelsier is very Connected to Ruin, despite him not even using Ruin’s magic system. This is because Kelsier is a very destructive person, preferring to destroy rather than preserve, and we can see this in his actions. However, Feruchemical Duralumin seems to work by allowing one to store their natural ability to form Connections. So, if one wanted to Connect to a particular Shard, it might be that all they’d need to do is to perform a few actions that line up with their Intent while tapping a large dose of Feruchemical Duralumin. On the flip side, someone might be able to prevent themselves from becoming too Connected to a Shard by deliberately storing Feruchemical Duralumin while performing actions that line up with their Intent. For example, if Kelsier were to get his hands on an Unsealed Feruchemical Duralumin mind, he could store his ability to form Connections while fighting and killing to prevent his Connection to Ruin from gaining strength, and when he performed acts that lined up with Preservation’s Intent, he could tap that stored Connection. Because the strength of a magic user is at least partially determined by the strength of the Connection between that person and the Shard that their magic comes from, I think that this method might be able to be used to strengthen one’s previously existing powers, though I’m not sure they would be able to form new powers from scratch.

I think that the reason we don’t see Mistborn, Mistings, or Hemalurgists increase their power over time is because they simply don’t have the natural ability to create Connections strong enough to make an increase of power. Radiants can increase the strength of their powers though, and that leads me to believe that the reason they can do this is because their Spren have highly invested spiritwebs they would be able to increase their power over time; a “large”, highly invested spiritual aspect allows for greater Connections to be made naturally.

To help this theory, we see in this WoB that if Kelsier, now a highly expanded Cognitive Shadow, went to Roshar, he could grant someone powers by bonding to them.

Quote

Blightsong

Could Kelsier theoretically bond with someone on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Yes!  This is further supported by much of the stuff we know about Lerasium.

Spoiler

Snarlezz

What's the incentive of alloying lerasium and becoming a misting when you could just burn it normal and be a Mistborn?

AltF4WillHelp

My guess is that you'd presumably you'd use less of it? Also, arguably, not every way of using a magic is going to be the most optimal way.

It's probably just a way that lerasium can work. If you alloy it or somehow mix it with things from other systems, it's quite possible you'd end up getting those magics instead, because it'd Connect you more strongly to a different Shard.

Brandon Sanderson

The replies to this are correct.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018)

Spoiler

Shardlet

If Vin and Elend hypothetically each blindly ingested equivalently sized beads of lerasium, would Vin be a stronger Mistborn than Elend, or would they be equal?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Vin would be stronger. It is additive, not just an overwrite.

Firefight Seattle UBooks signing (Jan. 6, 2015)

From these we get that burning Lerasium strengthens your connection with Preservation (Vin would be stronger due to her stronger connection to preservation as prior to eating the hypothetical bead she already has a connection to Preservation from being mistborn, thus an additive increase leaves Vin the stronger of the two), and that burning an alloy of Lerasium + X God Metal strengthens your connection with X Shard.

There are more WoBs that I know reference Lerasium and Sand Mastery and connecction and other things, so yeah! pretty sure we can say Stronger Connection to the Relevant Shard = Stronger Magic

Edited January 26, 2022 by Anomander Rake

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Wouldn't the fact that Kelsier is barely Connected to Pres despite being a powerful Mistborn seem to make this not very likely?

16 hours ago, Anomander Rake said:

From these we get that burning Lerasium strengthens your connection with Preservation

According to Leras, lerasium Invests a person. There's an old WoB that talks about it giving a lowercase-c connection, but we don't know if it gives a capital-C Connection or not.

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

According to Leras, lerasium Invests a person. There's an old WoB that talks about it giving a lowercase-c connection, but we don't know if it gives a capital-C Connection or not.

Given that becoming a savant would make you Acsend I think capital-C Connection would be accurate

Spoiler

Douglas

What about a lerasium savant? Or would that require so much lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, this is what Ascension is.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Given that becoming a savant would make you Acsend I think capital-C Connection would be accurate

  Reveal hidden contents

Douglas

What about a lerasium savant? Or would that require so much lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, this is what Ascension is.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

 

I mean you're shoving a bunch of Investiture into your spiritweb, take that hypothetically far enough and yeah that's gonna result in Ascension, but Ascension is not just Connection (being able to do it naturally requires Connection, but lerasium and Allomancy don't seem to have the same Intent alignment requirement, so I don't know whether it still applies or not).

[Anomander Rake]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Wouldn't the fact that Kelsier is barely Connected to Pres despite being a powerful Mistborn seem to make this not very likely?

According to Leras, lerasium Invests a person. There's an old WoB that talks about it giving a lowercase-c connection, but we don't know if it gives a capital-C Connection or not.

IDK honestly, power levels in Mistborn always seemed like a bit of a black box to me, with everyone able to alter the strength of their pushes and pulls by how quikcly they burn/flare metal, and with weight altering things too.  A good point, though IMO enough points the other direction that there is likely something that explains this as opposed to things explaining all the rest.

Where is that from?  Not being picky, I just dont remember haha.

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I mean you're shoving a bunch of Investiture into your spiritweb, take that hypothetically far enough and yeah that's gonna result in Ascension, but Ascension is not just Connection (being able to do it naturally requires Connection, but lerasium and Allomancy don't seem to have the same Intent alignment requirement, so I don't know whether it still applies or not).

Is connection made up of investiture, or is it just some abstract scalar value?  Because if it's the former, both of our points can still be correct - it invests you BY strengthening your connection.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Anomander Rake said:

IDK honestly, power levels in Mistborn always seemed like a bit of a black box to me, with everyone able to alter the strength of their pushes and pulls by how quikcly they burn/flare metal, and with weight altering things too.

Lol yeah fair. Brandon likes adding in enough toys that if he really needs he can do whatever he wants.

1 hour ago, Anomander Rake said:

Where is that from?  Not being picky, I just dont remember haha.

Leras explaining what Hoid took.

Quote

“He stole a bit of my essence, distilled and pure,” Fuzz explained. “It can Invest a human, grant him or her Allomancy.”

 

1 hour ago, Anomander Rake said:

Is connection made up of investiture, or is it just some abstract scalar value?  Because if it's the former, both of our points can still be correct - it invests you BY strengthening your connection.

From what Brandon says, Connection is a more abstract force thing, not made of anything exactly. There's actually a WoB asking exactly that (I cut to just the relevant part of the quote but the context is asking if the Spiritual and Cognitive are entirely made of Investiture):

Quote

Aurimus

How about Connection?

Brandon Sanderson

Connection is, like, the equivalent of a quantum connection in our world, so it's more like a force than something comprised of something. The question is like, "What is gravity comprised of?" And then you start asking weird questions.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

[Anomander Rake]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Lol yeah fair. Brandon likes adding in enough toys that if he really needs he can do whatever he wants.

Leras explaining what Hoid took.

 

From what Brandon says, Connection is a more abstract force thing, not made of anything exactly. There's actually a WoB asking exactly that (I cut to just the relevant part of the quote but the context is asking if the Spiritual and Cognitive are entirely made of Investiture):

Awesome, on point with the references, tyty.

If anything, the investiture directly from Preservation should have a strong Connection to the shard (itself I guess?), though what difference that makes IDK.

[cometaryorbit]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:12 PM, Anomander Rake said:

IDK honestly, power levels in Mistborn always seemed like a bit of a black box to me, with everyone able to alter the strength of their pushes and pulls by how quikcly they burn/flare metal, and with weight altering things too.

Yes, it's possible to flare metals (and finer control is possible if you are really good at it) but there is a definite limit which is fixed based on how strong an Allomancer you are (well, besides Duralumin or Nicrosil). Vin's maximum Push strength is greater than a normal Coinshot/Mistborn, and Elend's is greater still.

This is discussed as a major difference between Feruchemy and Allomancy - Feruchemy has unlimited "rate" but you have to store the energy first, while Allomancy has a fixed maximum "rate" but you can get more energy from more metal.

I think the weight effect is more like leverage - the heavier you are relative to the other object, the more it moves (because you move less). And mass is also related to anchor quality (there's a WoB about this when someone asked if a gold [denser] coin would be a better anchor than a copper [less dense] one) so that may also be relevant.

On 1/26/2022 at 2:28 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Wouldn't the fact that Kelsier is barely Connected to Pres despite being a powerful Mistborn seem to make this not very likely?

Yeah, this is my largest objection to the idea that magical strength is directly related to Connection to the relevant Shard.

I suppose it's possible that Kelsier was not so much weakly Connected to Preservation as he was ultra strongly Connected to Ruin, but still...

I think it's likelier that many magic systems require some kind of Connection for accessing the magic (Sel systems require Connection to the relevant area, [human-style] Surgebinding requires a bond to a spren or Honorblade [not sure what Fused do to access it]) but systems that you're born with access to (Allomancy, Feruchemy, and I guess BioChroma) can bypass that.

Edited January 30, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Anomander Rake]

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yes, it's possible to flare metals (and finer control is possible if you are really good at it) but there is a definite limit which is fixed based on how strong an Allomancer you are (well, besides Duralumin or Nicrosil). Vin's maximum Push strength is greater than a normal Coinshot/Mistborn, and Elend's is greater still.

This is discussed as a major difference between Feruchemy and Allomancy - Feruchemy has unlimited "rate" but you have to store the energy first, while Allomancy has a fixed maximum "rate" but you can get more energy from more metal.

I think the weight effect is more like leverage - the heavier you are relative to the other object, the more it moves (because you move less). And mass is also related to anchor quality (there's a WoB about this when someone asked if a gold [denser] coin would be a better anchor than a copper [less dense] one) so that may also be relevant.

I understand this; I was making light of the fact that all of these factors make that core, fixed power level - the strength of the connection - a lot harder to identify.  For example, we hear time and time again about Elend being at base, stronger, while Vin has much more finesse, making their fight-strength, you could say, more even, masking their base power.  Other magic systems give us much easier, even numerical ways to quantify power power levels with things like the oaths and breaths/heightenings. 

Correct on the weight, but to look at it a step further - if you have two coinshots with the same base power, the heavier one can produce a stronger steelpush; Force = Mass * Acceleration.  Just another tiny wrench in there.

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yeah, this is my largest objection to the idea that magical strength is directly related to Connection to the relevant Shard.

I suppose it's possible that Kelsier was not so much weakly Connected to Preservation as he was ultra strongly Connected to Ruin, but still...

I think it's likelier that many magic systems require some kind of Connection for accessing the magic (Sel systems require Connection to the relevant area, [human-style] Surgebinding requires a bond to a spren or Honorblade [not sure what Fused do to access it]) but systems that you're born with access to (Allomancy, Feruchemy, and I guess BioChroma) can bypass that.

Do we know for a fact that Kel had a weak connection to preservation?  IK he needed that orb to ascend and take the shard, but could the average connection to preservation afforded to someone by being mistborn just not be enough to ascend to begin with?

Could also have been something else getting in the way, like Kels intent being too far off from Preservation that he needed a stronger connection

Edited January 31, 2022 by Anomander Rake
a letter

[DiePie]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:31 PM, Anomander Rake said:

Do we know for a fact that Kel had a weak connection to preservation?  IK he needed that orb to ascend and take the shard, but could the average connection to preservation afforded to someone by being mistborn just not be enough to ascend to begin with?

I mean the time he spent in the well must have given him some connection, and I have a hard time seeing him having a weak connection to preservation after he held the shard.

He's also connected (most likely strongly) to the current Vessel of both shards if that makes any difference.