Why the radiance seem a lot stronger than the Fused? Fused's powers possibly scale with radiant ideals

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Bort said:

So... Kaladin and a building can do this.

Ok, with you so far... What about the other Windrunners? Where's your evidence supporting that they can do this (or indeed ANYTHING like this)? Or are you willingly ignoring all the evidence supporting that Kaladin is somehow special?

You say it's Adhesion, but look at the number of times Kaladin can either do something unexpected with his abilities, or the feelings he gets from time to time (sensing highstorms, etc). Not one of the other Windrunners display any of these abilities, making me think this isn't simply Adhesion, but rather a form of Adhesion Plus. In the same way Dalinar can do things the Stormfather never dreamed would be possible, so can Kaladin.

1. Where is your evidence Kaladin is alone in this, you can't put the burden of proof on me. While Kaladin is special this rarely comes in the form of powers
2. Kaladin and the Sibling can do this, and they happen to both have adhesion
3. Kaladin sensing Highstorms, like his spren can, while also being the only Windrunner with more than a handful of PoV's

I like Kal being special trust me I do, I have a whole theory dedicated to it, but we lack sufficent evidence to say that this is one of those instances where Kal is doing something special, or if this is just a rarely used because it's not that useful application of a surge.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Frustration

[Bort he/him]

16 minutes ago, Frustration said:

1. Where is your evidence Kaladin is alone in this, you can't put the burden of proof on me. While Kaladin is special this rarely comes in the form of powers
2. Kaladin and the Sibling can do this, and they happen to both have adhesion
3. Kaladin sensing Highstorms, like his spren can, while also being the only Windrunner with more than a handful of PoV's

I like Kal being special trust me I do, I have a whole theory dedicated to it, but we lack sufficent evidence to say that this is one of those instances where Kal is doing something special, or if this is just a rarely used because it's not that useful application of a surge.

We also lack sufficient evidence to say that Kaladin is NOT doing something special, because we haven't seen anything like it confirmed anywhere else, but that didn't stop you coming into the thread and telling me I'm wrong without backing up anything you said. This is why I put the burden of proof on you, Frustration. Because you like to make claims without backing them up. At least if I post something, it explains WHY I think the way I do.

1. So, you're saying the ability to SENSE HIGHSTORMS is not a power, or the ability to PART HIGHSTORMS? (Also, how can you say this would not be a useful ability? There are dozens of times this would have been useful in the books, making me think that we'd have seen it already if someone else were able to do it. What makes you think that everyone has it?).

2. All of the other Windrunners have Adhesion too. Why have we only heard of these two using it for this?

3. This is a point, however, I think we've had plenty of opportunity to have confirmation from elsewhere. I mean, Dawnshard has PoVs from multiple Windrunners, and Kaladin is barely even in that book, so would have been the perfect chance.

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, Bort said:

We also lack sufficient evidence to say that Kaladin is NOT doing something special, because we haven't seen anything like it confirmed anywhere else, but that didn't stop you coming into the thread and telling me I'm wrong without backing up anything you said. This is why I put the burden of proof on you, Frustration. Because you like to make claims without backing them up. At least if I post something, it explains WHY I think the way I do.

In science you always assume the null until proven otherwise.

There is no evidence Kaladin can't make a perpendicularity either, but I never say he could.

9 minutes ago, Bort said:

1. So, you're saying the ability to SENSE HIGHSTORMS is not a power, or the ability to PART HIGHSTORMS? (Also, how can you say this would not be a useful ability? There are dozens of times this would have been useful in the books, making me think that we'd have seen it already if someone else were able to do it. What makes you think that everyone has it?).

No, I'm saying those aren't things that make Kaladin special, Having the Stormfather consider to stop for him is, being called Child of Tanavast is, sensing Highstorms, we have no indication that Kaladin is the only one to do it.

And parting the Highstorm, other than Kaladin what third oath Windrunner has been caught in a highstorm and needed to save others?

12 minutes ago, Bort said:

2. All of the other Windrunners have Adhesion too. Why have we only heard of these two using it for this?

How often do we see Windrunners other than Kaladin caught in a Highstorm with others they need to protect?

13 minutes ago, Bort said:

3. This is a point, however, I think we've had plenty of opportunity to have confirmation from elsewhere. I mean, Dawnshard has PoVs from multiple Windrunners, and Kaladin is barely even in that book, so would have been the perfect chance.

If it didn't confirm that they can't do it, we do not have the evidence neccesary to reject the null.

[Bort he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

In science you always assume the null until proven otherwise.

There is no evidence Kaladin can't make a perpendicularity either, but I never say he could.

No, I'm saying those aren't things that make Kaladin special, Having the Stormfather consider to stop for him is, being called Child of Tanavast is, sensing Highstorms, we have no indication that Kaladin is the only one to do it.

And parting the Highstorm, other than Kaladin what third oath Windrunner has been caught in a highstorm and needed to save others?

How often do we see Windrunners other than Kaladin caught in a Highstorm with others they need to protect?

If it didn't confirm that they can't do it, we do not have the evidence neccesary to reject the null.

In science you always observe the results, ready to amend your hypothesis should new information come to light. I am willing to do this once we know that other Windrunners have these abilities too. NOTHING we have seen in the books suggest that this is the case, and everything we have seen in the books suggests that Kaladin is special. Arguing that Kaladin is special, so obviously all of the powers he is displaying, but no-one else is, means that every Windrunner has those same powers, makes no sense. Yet, this is exactly what you are arguing.

In science, you don't say "All the evidence points towards that result, but we can't be 100% certain so we're going to look in totally the other direction and pretend this evidence doesn't exist."

You say there is no indication that Kaladin is the only one that can do it. Well, I say we have more of an indication that he is the only one, due to an absolute absence of anyone else doing anything like it, in any of the books. How many Windrunners have we seen caught in a storm? Not many, but I again raise my earlier example. When flying through the highstorm, why didn't the Windrunners part the storm for Shallan, Adolin, Elhokar, and the team? It would have made the masks they were wearing unnecessary. That was literal hours spent in the highstorm. Surely someone would have done this little trick for at least part of the journey?

[Frustration]

20 minutes ago, Bort said:

In science you always observe the results, ready to amend your hypothesis should new information come to light. I am willing to do this once we know that other Windrunners have these abilities too. NOTHING we have seen in the books suggest that this is the case, and everything we have seen in the books suggests that Kaladin is special. Arguing that Kaladin is special, so obviously all of the powers he is displaying, but no-one else is, means that every Windrunner has those same powers, makes no sense. Yet, this is exactly what you are arguing.

No I'm saying that while he is special how special is up for debate.

21 minutes ago, Bort said:

In science, you don't say "All the evidence points towards that result, but we can't be 100% certain so we're going to look in totally the other direction and pretend this evidence doesn't exist."

No, but you do that if you can't be 95% certain at a bare minimum.

21 minutes ago, Bort said:

You say there is no indication that Kaladin is the only one that can do it. Well, I say we have more of an indication that he is the only one, due to an absolute absence of anyone else doing anything like it, in any of the books. How many Windrunners have we seen caught in a storm? Not many, but I again raise my earlier example. When flying through the highstorm, why didn't the Windrunners part the storm for Shallan, Adolin, Elhokar, and the team? It would have made the masks they were wearing unnecessary. That was literal hours spent in the highstorm. Surely someone would have done this little trick for at least part of the journey?

First of all we have a sample size of exactly one, that is not enough to have any level of certainty.

Second off why hasn't Dalinar been messing with Connections since he bonded the Stormfather? Why didn't he simply strip Rayse of Odium when he appeared during the end of OB, why hasn't he cut Fused off from Odium forcing them to decay into ordinary souls? He has the power and it would make a lot of the fighting unneccesary.

[Bort he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

No I'm saying that while he is special how special is up for debate.

No, but you do that if you can't be 95% certain at a bare minimum.

First of all we have a sample size of exactly one, that is not enough to have any level of certainty.

Second off why hasn't Dalinar been messing with Connections since he bonded the Stormfather? Why didn't he simply strip Rayse of Odium when he appeared during the end of OB, why hasn't he cut Fused off from Odium forcing them to decay into ordinary souls? He has the power and it would make a lot of the fighting unneccesary.

And yet, in arguing "how special" Kaladin is, you are assigning every single one of his talents (which to all eyes so far appear to be unique to Kaladin) to ALL of the other Windrunners. You say there is insufficient evidence that the powers are unique to Kaladin, but where is even a single shred of evidence that suggests the others may share these abilities? Simple answer, there isn't any, while there is plenty to support the "Kaladin is this special" hypothesis.

We have a sample size of more than 1. There are way more Windrunners than just Kaladin. Each one is it's own little datapoint in the calculation, and so far, every single one of them is pointing at Kaladin and saying "He's special, we're not," This may change in future, if we start seeing others displaying the same talents, but right now, those abilities are Kaladin's and Kaladin's alone. And if you're talking about Windrunner PoVs, I can think of at least 4 we've seen, so that's not a sample size of 1 either.

And now you're using a totally different debate about a totally different character to try to prove your point about Kaladin (also, it's a character that is ALSO displaying unusual abilities that surprise his Spren, so not sure he's the best example of your argument). And, let's not forget all the talk about science here, you not only brought in a totally unrelated character to the debate, you brought in one that adds literally nothing to the facts here. Maybe instead of diverging off into wild speculation that has nothing to do with what's being talked about, you could answer the question instead?

We've seen the Windrunners in plenty of places where these abilities could be useful, so surely we should have seen at least one of them using them by now, other than Kaladin?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

38 minutes ago, Bort said:

We've seen the Windrunners in plenty of places where these abilities could be useful, so surely we should have seen at least one of them using them by now, other than Kaladin?

All windrunners are able to make "Windshield" - shield themselves from wind during flight. This is basicly this ability, just on smaller scale.

[Bort he/him]

7 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

All windrunners are able to make "Windshield" - shield themselves from wind during flight. This is basicly this ability, just on smaller scale.

We're not talking on a small scale here though. Frustration was arguing that all Windrunners share Kaladin's special abilities, so their windshield should be powerful enough to split the highstorm for groups of people, not just themselves.

[Frustration]

54 minutes ago, Bort said:

And yet, in arguing "how special" Kaladin is, you are assigning every single one of his talents (which to all eyes so far appear to be unique to Kaladin) to ALL of the other Windrunners. You say there is insufficient evidence that the powers are unique to Kaladin, but where is even a single shred of evidence that suggests the others may share these abilities? Simple answer, there isn't any, while there is plenty to support the "Kaladin is this special" hypothesis.

You are asking me to prove a negative.

I say you can't prove that the powers are special to Kaladin and you counter by saying I can't prove they aren't.

55 minutes ago, Bort said:

We have a sample size of more than 1. There are way more Windrunners than just Kaladin. Each one is it's own little datapoint in the calculation, and so far, every single one of them is pointing at Kaladin and saying "He's special, we're not," This may change in future, if we start seeing others displaying the same talents, but right now, those abilities are Kaladin's and Kaladin's alone. And if you're talking about Windrunner PoVs, I can think of at least 4 we've seen, so that's not a sample size of 1 either.

None of them have given any data, Teft, who aside from Kaladin has had the most screentime hasn't used a single ability during his PoV's. None of the other Windrunners have been given even that much.

57 minutes ago, Bort said:

And now you're using a totally different debate about a totally different character to try to prove your point about Kaladin (also, it's a character that is ALSO displaying unusual abilities that surprise his Spren, so not sure he's the best example of your argument). And, let's not forget all the talk about science here, you not only brought in a totally unrelated character to the debate, you brought in one that adds literally nothing to the facts here. Maybe instead of diverging off into wild speculation that has nothing to do with what's being talked about, you could answer the question instead?

I litterally took your argument and applyied it to a different circumstance.

58 minutes ago, Bort said:

We've seen the Windrunners in plenty of places where these abilities could be useful, so surely we should have seen at least one of them using them by now, other than Kaladin?

Those windruuners do not provide any data, they get maybe a sentence mentioning their existance but no more.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

28 minutes ago, Bort said:

We're not talking on a small scale here though. Frustration was arguing that all Windrunners share Kaladin's special abilities, so their windshield should be powerful enough to split the highstorm for groups of people, not just themselves.

If something can be done on small scale, can be also done on larger, if there is enough Windrunners. But while theorticaly possible, Windrunners still needs to be on th frontline, probably separated and divided into small groups.

Much more practical solution would be took bunch of Willshapers and just shape stone into Stormshelter for entire army.

[NameIess]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

I think that's a bit of an overstatement, and didn't some of them get crushed by boulders in RoW?

And Eshonai certainly died, and they bring sheilds out into the Highstorm as protection, so they aren't "Safe"

Eshonia was in the everstorm+highstorm thing, plus she fell into a chasm. I don't think we saw any singers get crushed by boulders, although I could be wrong.

[Bort he/him]

18 hours ago, Frustration said:

You are asking me to prove a negative.

I say you can't prove that the powers are special to Kaladin and you counter by saying I can't prove they aren't.

None of them have given any data, Teft, who aside from Kaladin has had the most screentime hasn't used a single ability during his PoV's. None of the other Windrunners have been given even that much.

I litterally took your argument and applyied it to a different circumstance.

Those windruuners do not provide any data, they get maybe a sentence mentioning their existance but no more.

I'm not asking you to prove a negative. I am asking you to admit that, with the information we have available, it appears that Kaladin has some capabilities which do not appear to be shared with the other Windrunners. Nothing we know supports your claim that all Windrunners can do the same things. I'll admit, nothing we know confirms it's only Kaladin either, but everything we have seen points to it being just Kaladin, rather than everyone.

And Teft isn't the one who has had the most screen time other than Kaladin. There is an entire book with barely a mention of Kaladin, but starring a couple of other Windrunners (not Teft). Read Dawnshard.

You took my argument, and applied it to a character which has nothing to do with what was being debated, and one who holds a unique position in the world anyways, so wouldn't be very good to base information on, especially when discussing Windrunner capabilities.

So... You seem to believe that characters not doing something provides no data. On the contrary, it provides some data, just not the data you want, because it doesn't provide a definitive answer. The more we see Windrunners in action, without displaying these powers that Kaladin seems to have, the more data we have suggesting it's just Kaladin, and not all of them.

Is it proof? No. But there is far more case to be arguing that it's Kaladin only at this point, rather than arguing that it's all Windrunners.

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Bort said:

I'm not asking you to prove a negative. I am asking you to admit that, with the information we have available, it appears that Kaladin has some capabilities which do not appear to be shared with the other Windrunners. Nothing we know supports your claim that all Windrunners can do the same things. I'll admit, nothing we know confirms it's only Kaladin either, but everything we have seen points to it being just Kaladin, rather than everyone.

So, if nothing indicates Kaladin is the only one to do it, how does everything point to Kaladin being the only one to do it? And Yes you are asking me to prove a negative, You wnt me to prove Kaladin isn't the only one who can do it. Which is a negative.

2 hours ago, Bort said:

And Teft isn't the one who has had the most screen time other than Kaladin. There is an entire book with barely a mention of Kaladin, but starring a couple of other Windrunners (not Teft). Read Dawnshard.

I hate any medium other than print, I'll wait.

2 hours ago, Bort said:

You took my argument, and applied it to a character which has nothing to do with what was being debated, and one who holds a unique position in the world anyways, so wouldn't be very good to base information on, especially when discussing Windrunner capabilities.

So I took an argument, about a character with a unique position in the world, and applied it to a different character with a unique position in the world.

2 hours ago, Bort said:

So... You seem to believe that characters not doing something provides no data. On the contrary, it provides some data, just not the data you want, because it doesn't provide a definitive answer. The more we see Windrunners in action, without displaying these powers that Kaladin seems to have, the more data we have suggesting it's just Kaladin, and not all of them.

All together they don't have a sixteenth of the screentime Kal has, that's not a sufficent samplle size.

2 hours ago, Bort said:

s it proof? No. But there is far more case to be arguing that it's Kaladin only at this point, rather than arguing that it's all Windrunners.

When your evidence is solely based on the others not doing it it's not much of a case.

We don't see other lightweavers look at peoples spiritual selves but that's not Shallan exclusive.

[Bort he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

So, if nothing indicates Kaladin is the only one to do it, how does everything point to Kaladin being the only one to do it? And Yes you are asking me to prove a negative, You wnt me to prove Kaladin isn't the only one who can do it. Which is a negative.

I hate any medium other than print, I'll wait.

So I took an argument, about a character with a unique position in the world, and applied it to a different character with a unique position in the world.

All together they don't have a sixteenth of the screentime Kal has, that's not a sufficent samplle size.

When your evidence is solely based on the others not doing it it's not much of a case.

We don't see other lightweavers look at peoples spiritual selves but that's not Shallan exclusive.

And now you're just twisting words. Nowhere did I say that "nothing indicates" Kaladin is the only one to do these things. I said that all evidence suggests that Kaladin is the only one with these abilities because we have no evidence to show anyone else has these same talents. Why would I use these words? Could it possibly be because KALADIN IS THE ONLY ONE WE HAVE SEEN DISPLAYING THESE TALENTS? And I'm not asking you to prove anything. I'm asking you for examples that back the claims you are making, something any self respecting scientist should be able to provide. That's not definitive proof, just something that you've based your assumptions on. If you have nothing to offer about why you are making the assumptions you have, what are you even doing arguing about it when you have literally nothing to base your argument on?

My assumptions are based on EVERYTHING we've seen in the books so far. What, exactly, are yours based on? Three words from an in-universe source?

You complain about my evidence being based on the others not doing it, and yet, your evidence is based on "the others not doing it," but being able to. At least what I am saying is backed up by what we have seen in the books. Which parts of the books support your claims? Oh, that's right... They don't!

And what possible reason could you have for thinking yourself capable of arguing against a point raised about A BOOK YOU HAVEN'T EVEN READ YET???

And your comment about Shallan is wrong. Although it's been a while since I last read it, I'm sure she discusses their mnemonic abilities with another of her Lightweavers fairly early in RoW. You definitely get other perspectives about it though, with one Lightweaver talking about the colours to, I think it was Dalinar, Might have also been an internal Lightweaver discussion though.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Bort said:

And now you're just twisting words. Nowhere did I say that "nothing indicates" Kaladin is the only one to do these things. I said that all evidence suggests that Kaladin is the only one with these abilities because we have no evidence to show anyone else has these same talents. Why would I use these words? Could it possibly be because KALADIN IS THE ONLY ONE WE HAVE SEEN DISPLAYING THESE TALENTS? And I'm not asking you to prove anything. I'm asking you for examples that back the claims you are making, something any self respecting scientist should be able to provide. That's not definitive proof, just something that you've based your assumptions on. If you have nothing to offer about why you are making the assumptions you have, what are you even doing arguing about it when you have literally nothing to base your argument on?

Name one thing, one, other than being called Child of Tanavast that we know Kaladin can do but no other Windrunner in the same position could.

2 minutes ago, Bort said:

My assumptions are based on EVERYTHING we've seen in the books so far. What, exactly, are yours based on? Three words from an in-universe source?

No, you claim is based off of something not being in the books.

3 minutes ago, Bort said:

You complain about my evidence being based on the others not doing it, and yet, your evidence is based on "the others not doing it," but being able to. At least what I am saying is backed up by what we have seen in the books. Which parts of the books support your claims? Oh, that's right... They don't!

Why are you so invested in this, you act like I'm attacking you on a personal level.

Give a single line, that says that Kaladin alone can do any of the things you claim.

5 minutes ago, Bort said:

And what possible reason could you have for thinking yourself capable of arguing against a point raised about A BOOK YOU HAVEN'T EVEN READ YET???

Does anything in that book say a thing about Kaladin being the only one to do something?

Do any of the charaters try to do something Kaladin can and simply can't?

6 minutes ago, Bort said:

And your comment about Shallan is wrong. Although it's been a while since I last read it, I'm sure she discusses their mnemonic abilities with another of her Lightweavers fairly early in RoW. You definitely get other perspectives about it though, with one Lightweaver talking about the colours to, I think it was Dalinar, Might have also been an internal Lightweaver discussion though.

In Words of Radiance Shallan finds a gang of deserters, and she convinces them to help her, while doing so she sees the spiritual acspects of them, something no other Lightweaver has done. 

[Bort he/him]

Or, in other words, no, you can't provide ANYTHING that backs up the claims you are making. Also, one other thing we see Kaladin doing which no other Windrunner can do... So far as we have seen. Travel with the Highstorm... The visions he was having back in the Lumberyard, while a bridgeman. Where are all the perspectives from the other bridgemen about receiving their visions of flying in the storms? Surely there would have been something, even a single comment from any of Bridge 4. I mean, do you seriously expect that Lopen wouldn't have spoken of it?

Yet, rather than admit that you have nothing to support your claims, you still attack my arguments which are entirely based on what we see in the books. And how can you claim my logic is based on what is not in the books when I am using EVERYTHING KALADIN HAS DONE WHICH SEEMS SPECIAL as my evidence, and you are using the fact that NO-ONE ELSE HAS SHOWN THESE TALENTS to mean that everyone can do them... Sorry, but which bit is not in the books?

As for why I'm invested in this... It's because you are frustrating, Frustration. For all your comments about science, and your amazing talents at digging out specific WoBs, you don't provide reasons for why you think what you think, but you argue like you are so certain that you are right and everyone else is wrong. If you are that certain, share some of your reasoning, instead of just saying "You're wrong!"

You say things like "Give a single line that says Kaladin alone can do the things you claim," yet you are unable to provide a single line that supports the claims YOU are making. That's why I argue against you so much. Like your line about Shallan... She sees the spiritual aspect of the deserters. Where are you getting this piece of information? What makes you so sure that this is what happened? How do you know no other Lightweaver can do this?

This is EXACTLY the same argument we're having about Kaladin, and once again you are making unsubstantiated claims and presenting them as fact. If you want them to be accepted as fact, you need to do better in your presentation, like actually providing reasons for your logic, and in-book examples that support your claims.

Now, I have freely admitted in this thread that I may be wrong... BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE DATA TO SAY FOR SURE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER... So, why are you presenting your side of the argument as "I am right, you are wrong!"?

[NameIess]

37 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Name one thing, one, other than being called Child of Tanavast that we know Kaladin can do but no other Windrunner in the same position could.

He seems to have a closer connection to Honor and the wind than other Windrunners, and Syl does seem surprised that he could do it. He also uses windspren to do it, particularly in RoW, and we don't see any other windrunner do that. We can't say for certain that other Windrunners can't do it, but we also can't say for certain that they can do it. Even if modern radiants can do it, it doesn't confirm that ancient radiants could. Things might be different now that Honor is dead. So using it in a powerscaling argument could be like saying every Edgedancer can metabolize food into investiture. We don't know enough to verify the ubiquity of the power.

[Frustration]

47 minutes ago, Nameless said:

He seems to have a closer connection to Honor and the wind than other Windrunners, and Syl does seem surprised that he could do it. He also uses windspren to do it, particularly in RoW, and we don't see any other windrunner do that. We can't say for certain that other Windrunners can't do it, but we also can't say for certain that they can do it. Even if modern radiants can do it, it doesn't confirm that ancient radiants could. Things might be different now that Honor is dead. So using it in a powerscaling argument could be like saying every Edgedancer can metabolize food into investiture. We don't know enough to verify the ubiquity of the power.

We know for a fact that Lift's metabolising food into Lifelight is unique to her, so it's a false comparison to say that Kal is in the same boat as her.

Though you do raise a good point it is possible that this is something only possible because Honor's laws are no longer in force.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

We know for a fact that Lift's metabolising food into Lifelight is unique to her, so it's a false comparison to say that Kal is in the same boat as her.

 

Originally though, we didn't. We knew that Wyndle didn't understand how it worked, and that she shouldn't be able to touch spren, but I don't think WoR outright said that most Edgedancers couldn't do that

[Frustration]

Just now, Nameless said:

Originally though, we didn't. We knew that Wyndle didn't understand how it worked, and that she shouldn't be able to touch spren, but I don't think WoR outright said that most Edgedancers couldn't do that

No even from the start it says she was partly in the CR.

[NameIess]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No even from the start it says she was partly in the CR.

That's in relation to touching spren, no? Not in relation to metabolizing food to lifelight.

[Frustration]

Just now, Nameless said:

That's in relation to touching spren, no? Not in relation to metabolizing food to lifelight.

Yes, but it showed she was unique. It was a stated indication that she would be different.

Kaladin is the Son of Tanavast.

That's it, now there are some hints, some line's but nothing definative. Even from the begining Lift had WoB's about her being special, Kaladin has one, and even that could be misdirection.

Don't get me wrong I think Kal does have something special about him, but to assume that means everything he does must be suspect tested before we apply it to others of the same order is not supported.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Yes, but it showed she was unique. It was a stated indication that she would be different.

Kaladin is the Son of Tanavast.

That's it, now there are some hints, some line's but nothing definative. Even from the begining Lift had WoB's about her being special, Kaladin has one, and even that could be misdirection.

Don't get me wrong I think Kal does have something special about him, but to assume that means everything he does must be suspect tested before we apply it to others of the same order is not supported.

No, not everything that Kaladin does most be tested, but the stormstopping is clearly different from his other powers. Syl is surprised by it and doesn't seem to think of it as a normal power, and it uses windspren. Do you think that every fourth ideal radiant can summon hundreds or thousands of windspren whenever they want in order to stop storms? I'm not saying that they can't, just that we shouldn't assume they can just because Kaladin can.

[Bort he/him]

18 hours ago, Nameless said:

No, not everything that Kaladin does most be tested, but the stormstopping is clearly different from his other powers. Syl is surprised by it and doesn't seem to think of it as a normal power, and it uses windspren. Do you think that every fourth ideal radiant can summon hundreds or thousands of windspren whenever they want in order to stop storms? I'm not saying that they can't, just that we shouldn't assume they can just because Kaladin can.

Third Ideal. Kaladin hadn't sworn the 4th Ideal yet, and this is another indication that it's something special about Kaladin. 4th Ideal is when they get their Plate, which Kaladin can control remotely to protect others, making it similar in form to what he did with the Windspren. But that was before swearing the Ideal that allowed him to do that sort of thing. It's this sort of thing that makes me think that Kaladin is special, and that the other Windrunners can't do this sort of thing.

[NameIess]

6 hours ago, Bort said:

Third Ideal. Kaladin hadn't sworn the 4th Ideal yet, and this is another indication that it's something special about Kaladin. 4th Ideal is when they get their Plate, which Kaladin can control remotely to protect others, making it similar in form to what he did with the Windspren. But that was before swearing the Ideal that allowed him to do that sort of thing. It's this sort of thing that makes me think that Kaladin is special, and that the other Windrunners can't do this sort of thing.

I wasn't talking about that time. I was talking about the time directly after Kaladin swore the fourth ideal, when he summoned tons of windspren to make a tunnel in the storms to his father.