Frustration Posted January 1, 2022 Author Posted January 1, 2022 Just now, Bzhydack said: None of them was with Spiritual Realm (we dont talk about Oathpact). Also just "some remnants of Honor" wont bring you unlimited Light. Basicly, every Spren is part of Honor's power. And they still need feed on Light. Stromfather's got a pretty hefty sum of infinate.
+Bzhydack he/him Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 48 minutes ago, Frustration said: Stromfather's got a pretty hefty sum of infinate. Technicly, all Stormlight come from Stormfather (or throu him, being more specific) but I cant see posibility to force Highstorm to fuel one specific item all the time. It is, literaly, moving Perpendicularity.
NameIess Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 12 minutes ago, Bzhydack said: Technicly, all Stormlight come from Stormfather (or throu him, being more specific) but I cant see posibility to force Highstorm to fuel one specific item all the time. It is, literaly, moving Perpendicularity. Doesn’t matter if the perpendicularity moves if you give a sphere the connection of being in the perpendicularity. Unchained bondsmiths are broken. 1
Frustration Posted January 1, 2022 Author Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Bzhydack said: Technicly, all Stormlight come from Stormfather (or throu him, being more specific) but I cant see posibility to force Highstorm to fuel one specific item all the time. It is, literaly, moving Perpendicularity. The Highstorm is not a perpendicularity
Wadders Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 (edited) The heralds prior to honors death were fueled directly by honor, this would be unlikely to involve a perpendicularity as it would be a bit wierd for one to follow each of the heralds around! I'm guessing this would be similar to how vin fueled elends alomancy in mistborn, it just required a connection. As there is no one currently holding honor's power then could a connection be made directly to it? Edited January 1, 2022 by Wadders
+Bzhydack he/him Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 20 hours ago, Nameless said: Doesn’t matter if the perpendicularity moves if you give a sphere the connection of being in the perpendicularity. Unchained bondsmiths are broken. Arent gemstones immune for using Surges on them? 18 hours ago, Frustration said: The Highstorm is not a perpendicularity Is, but not fully opened.
Frustration Posted January 2, 2022 Author Posted January 2, 2022 4 hours ago, Bzhydack said: Arent gemstones immune for using Surges on them? No, Shallan ties an illusion to one. 4 hours ago, Bzhydack said: Is, but not fully opened. It's not Honor's perpendicularly. Nor is it one, no more than The Sibling is a perpendicularly.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. A thought: Quote Dopetruffles And finally, whether a duralumin compounder could break into a kandra? Brandon Sanderson Um... yes, possible, yeah. Quote zas678 (paraphrased) Can Odium influence people the same way that Ruin can? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Well, you see, the kandra and the koloss have a "hole" in them that allows Ruin to come in and take over. The Parshendi naturally are protected from this, but when they expose themselves to the storms, and the spren come in, many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them, and that's what allows Odium to take control of them. What if, just as a Connector can exploit these kinds of "holes", a Bondsmith can too, and so a Bondsmith could hypothetically break into and control a Voidspren or Fused? 2
Dopetruffles And finally, whether a duralumin compounder could break into a kandra? Brandon Sanderson Um... yes, possible, yeah.
zas678 (paraphrased) Can Odium influence people the same way that Ruin can? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Well, you see, the kandra and the koloss have a "hole" in them that allows Ruin to come in and take over. The Parshendi naturally are protected from this, but when they expose themselves to the storms, and the spren come in, many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them, and that's what allows Odium to take control of them.
Frustration Posted January 3, 2022 Author Posted January 3, 2022 2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. A thought: What if, just as a Connector can exploit these kinds of "holes", a Bondsmith can too, and so a Bondsmith could hypothetically break into and control a Voidspren or Fused? ... The longer this thread goes on the more convinced I am that we should be more scared of Ishar's Honorblade than Nightblood. 3
+Bzhydack he/him Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 8 hours ago, Frustration said: No, Shallan ties an illusion to one. Ilusions are tricky because you can cast ilusion AROUND object. But im almost sure you cannot use Transformation, Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion, Progression on gemstones. Not sure about Gravitation (gemstones are always in bags), Division or Transportation. 8 hours ago, Frustration said: It's not Honor's perpendicularly. Nor is it one, no more than The Sibling is a perpendicularly. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36/#e1525
Frustration Posted January 3, 2022 Author Posted January 3, 2022 10 hours ago, Bzhydack said: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36/#e1525 He straight up does not answer that. Reasons why the Highstorm can not be Honor's perpendicularity. The Highstorms movements are regular, Honor's perpendicularity is not When Dalinar and Ishar summon it, they aren't dragging the Highstorm around It's been stated multiple times that Honor's perpendicularity is hard to find, Highstorms are anything but. 2
KaladinWorldsinger Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Frustration said: The Highstorms movements are regular, While I don't think highstorms are honor's perpendicularity, i will point out that the highstorms are not regular, as you need stormwardens to predict it's coming with complicated mathematics. But the weeping is regular, every 500 days i think
Frustration Posted January 3, 2022 Author Posted January 3, 2022 48 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: While I don't think highstorms are honor's perpendicularity, i will point out that the highstorms are not regular, as you need stormwardens to predict it's coming with complicated mathematics. But the weeping is regular, every 500 days i think It comes roughly once every week or so, that's pretty regular 1
LewsTherinTelescope Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Frustration said: He straight up does not answer that. Reasons why the Highstorm can not be Honor's perpendicularity. The Highstorms movements are regular, Honor's perpendicularity is not When Dalinar and Ishar summon it, they aren't dragging the Highstorm around It's been stated multiple times that Honor's perpendicularity is hard to find, Highstorms are anything but. Plus, we see the highstorm in Shadesmar, and it definitely does not look at all the same (or seem to have a true Perp at all). Edited January 3, 2022 by LewsTherinTelescope
+Bliev she/her Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 I am loving this thread. SO much to think about. I think Dalinar's power is going to end up being insanely powered up, and it will be limited only by his Intent and his ethics, which is the difference between him and Ishar. Ishar's powers are not "greater" than Dalinar's, they are just better known to him, and are magnified by how his insanity affects his Intent. There's going to be a "with great power, comes great responsibility" moment, which is what Honor's rules were meant to externally impose on the orders. What I want to know is how Cultivation feels about all of this. She played the long game with Taravangium and Szeth to get rid of Rayse. She set Dalinar up to be able to make the choice he made in Oathbringer. What is she after? I am certain she knows exactly what Dalinar will be able to do with his powers, and her future sight is likely pretty good. So where does she come into play? She's not an antagonist. But she's not a protagonist either. 1
NameIess Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 Here's a list of things that Dalinar could probably do with his powers that are absolutely terrifying: Connect himself to someone so that they see him as a close friend, completely trustworthy. This includes humans, radiants, parshendi, fused, heralds, and possibly even shards. Force spren to bond anyone he wants them to and make the bond unbreakable. Amplify Nahel bonds to the level of the fifth ideal or above. Connect himself or others to any planet he wants, allowing for spies that fit in almost perfectly or really good ambassadors. Break or steal any connection. This would let him destroy radiant bonds, kill fused and heralds, and depower almost any magic user. Create a connection to almost any shard. This means that (general Cosmere magic spoilers) Spoiler He could make anyone into a Fullborn, Elantrian, or sand master. Awakeners might be harder, but he could steal breaths. And, last, but not least, he could break the connection between the physical, spiriual, and cognitve aspect, killing people. Small scale I know, but still terrifying. 3
+Bzhydack he/him Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Nameless said: Create a connection to almost any shard. This means that (general Cosmere magic spoilers) 2 hours ago, Nameless said: Here's a list of things that Dalinar could probably do with his powers that are absolutely terrifying: Connect himself to someone so that they see him as a close friend, completely trustworthy. This includes humans, radiants, parshendi, fused, heralds, and possibly even shards. Force spren to bond anyone he wants them to and make the bond unbreakable. Amplify Nahel bonds to the level of the fifth ideal or above. Connect himself or others to any planet he wants, allowing for spies that fit in almost perfectly or really good ambassadors. Break or steal any connection. This would let him destroy radiant bonds, kill fused and heralds, and depower almost any magic user. Create a connection to almost any shard. This means that (general Cosmere magic spoilers) And, last, but not least, he could break the connection between the physical, spiriual, and cognitve aspect, killing people. Small scale I know, but still terrifying. While I agree with almost all of this, I would deliberate with some. 2 hours ago, Nameless said: Create a connection to almost any shard. This means that (general Cosmere magic spoilers) Hide contents He could make anyone into a Fullborn, Elantrian, or sand master. Awakeners might be harder, but he could steal breaths. I think this would be hard (not impossible) mainly because you would have Shards themselves to decide if they want keep this Connection. Remember, Conection works both ways. So maybe this would be easier when there is no Shard Vessel around (like Dor) 2 hours ago, Nameless said: And, last, but not least, he could break the connection between the physical, spiriual, and cognitve aspect, killing people. Small scale I know, but still terrifying. I think body disconected from Spiritual Ideal would not be dead, but not functioning (almost no difference, but still) What is even more terrifing, because mean with addition of some Cognitive Shadow (or something else) you will end up with undead. 1
Bort he/him Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 On 12/31/2021 at 4:13 AM, Frustration said: I was looking at this just yesterday, apparently Raboniel was somhow inside the tower at one point, and also awake. During the First Desolation, perhaps?
KaladinWorldsinger Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 19 hours ago, Nameless said: Here's a list of things that Dalinar could probably do with his powers that are absolutely terrifying: Connect himself to someone so that they see him as a close friend, completely trustworthy. This includes humans, radiants, parshendi, fused, heralds, and possibly even shards. Force spren to bond anyone he wants them to and make the bond unbreakable. Amplify Nahel bonds to the level of the fifth ideal or above. Connect himself or others to any planet he wants, allowing for spies that fit in almost perfectly or really good ambassadors. Break or steal any connection. This would let him destroy radiant bonds, kill fused and heralds, and depower almost any magic user. Create a connection to almost any shard. This means that (general Cosmere magic spoilers) Reveal hidden contents He could make anyone into a Fullborn, Elantrian, or sand master. Awakeners might be harder, but he could steal breaths. And, last, but not least, he could break the connection between the physical, spiriual, and cognitve aspect, killing people. Small scale I know, but still terrifying. I pretty much disagree with every single one of these, lol. The shards themselves haven't shown these kinds of powers to us, so I doubt a bondsmith could. A bondsmith has powers related to connection, not every concievable thing you can do with a connection. For example, odium could not do much to kaladin even after getting a viable connection with him thru moash. Infact he can't seem to do much to dalinar, and they have a strong connection. Even if shards have extra restrictions, one thing everything is forgetting about is that free will and intent are pretty big. The thrill can't make you choose to use it, you choose to give into the Thrill. Most of your suggestions I think violate that free will
Frustration Posted January 4, 2022 Author Posted January 4, 2022 1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: I pretty much disagree with every single one of these, lol. The shards themselves haven't shown these kinds of powers to us, so I doubt a bondsmith could. A bondsmith has powers related to connection, not every concievable thing you can do with a connection. For example, odium could not do much to kaladin even after getting a viable connection with him thru moash. Infact he can't seem to do much to dalinar, and they have a strong connection. Even if shards have extra restrictions, one thing everything is forgetting about is that free will and intent are pretty big. The thrill can't make you choose to use it, you choose to give into the Thrill. Most of your suggestions I think violate that free will MB Spoiler Duralumin Ferrings can make you see them as a close friend And with hemalurgy or other holes in souls you can overcome free will
KaladinWorldsinger Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: MB Hide contents Duralumin Ferrings can make you see them as a close friend And with hemalurgy or other holes in souls you can overcome free will I haven't read mistborn era 2, but from what I read about the cosmere, I find it very unlikely that free will can be removed like that.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Bort said: During the First Desolation, perhaps? Honestly, the Sibling probably didn't exist during the First Desolation. They were made for the war against Odium, to unite the humans and spren. And spren bonding humans was a surprise that didn't come until partway through the Desolations. So in my opinion it's likely they weren't created until Nohadon's time, especially with the “Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.” quote (Alethela was Nohadon's kingdom, and we know the Radiants used The Way of Kings as a guide).
Frustration Posted January 4, 2022 Author Posted January 4, 2022 1 hour ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: I haven't read mistborn era 2, but from what I read about the cosmere, I find it very unlikely that free will can be removed like that. HoA Spoiler Marsh spends the entirety of the book as a slave in his own body. Vin subjegates Koloss, and Kandra etc. 1
NameIess Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 1 hour ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: I pretty much disagree with every single one of these, lol. The shards themselves haven't shown these kinds of powers to us, so I doubt a bondsmith could. A bondsmith has powers related to connection, not every concievable thing you can do with a connection. For example, odium could not do much to kaladin even after getting a viable connection with him thru moash. Infact he can't seem to do much to dalinar, and they have a strong connection. Even if shards have extra restrictions, one thing everything is forgetting about is that free will and intent are pretty big. The thrill can't make you choose to use it, you choose to give into the Thrill. Most of your suggestions I think violate that free will Shards, particularly Odium, have heavy restrictions on what they can do. All shards are limited by their intent, which would (for example) make it extremely difficult for Cultivation to stop someone from growing. Odium is even more limited in what he can do, sealed away on Braize as he is. He can barely affect anyone on Roshar unless they have made a deal with him like Taravangian did. He can't smite people from orbit, he can't leave the system, he can't destroy the radiant spren, (HoA spoilers) Spoiler and he can't destroy the world like Ruin would have Odium doesn't even seem able to kill the fused directly, what with Leshwi not immediately keeling over dead upon betraying him. When Odium and Dalinar spoke, Odium wasn't scared by the fact that Dalinar could potentially learn to manipulate connections, he was scared by the fact that Dalinar could potentially learn to do so without the restrictions of a shard. Quote "You are a god. You hold vast powers, yet they bind you as much as they free you. Tell me, what do you think of a human bearing the weight of a god's powers, but without that god's restrictions?" -Dalinar to Odium, ch. 112, p. 1173 of RoW As for losing free will, none of these remove free will, merely manipulate it. You say that the Thrill can't make you choose it, but anyone who fights is vulnerable to it. you can't just tell the Thrill to leave you alone. Dalinar making someone see him as a friend doesn't actually make them see him as a friend; they would still know that he isn't, they just wouldn't feel that he isn't. Stealing spren bonds and making them unbreakable is all but confirmed, as Ishar nearly stole Dalinar's bond with the Stormfather, and there is no way that the Stormfather would remain bonded to a madman if he could help it. 18 hours ago, Bzhydack said: I think this would be hard (not impossible) mainly because you would have Shards themselves to decide if they want keep this Connection. Remember, Conection works both ways. So maybe this would be easier when there is no Shard Vessel around (like Dor) Ishar was going to steal Dalinar's connection to Odium as an enemy. Brandon has said that shards cannot simply cut off a magic system user: Quote RandyD Can a Shard just--like, say someone is using their magic system--can they stop the power from them being able to use it? Brandon Sanderson No, that's a bit like stopping the laws of physics. So, while they can circumvent laws of physics and things like that, but if you wanted to stop someone from using magic, smiting them would be the efficient way of making that happen, if you are capable of it in the system. Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018) So I think that if you managed to make or steal a connection to a shard that gave you access to their magic system, it would be difficult for them to break that connection. 18 hours ago, Bzhydack said: I think body disconected from Spiritual Ideal would not be dead, but not functioning (almost no difference, but still) What is even more terrifing, because mean with addition of some Cognitive Shadow (or something else) you will end up with undead. Yeah, Dalinar probably could body swap souls. 1
cometaryorbit Posted January 5, 2022 Posted January 5, 2022 I am not convinced Connection to a Shard gives you magic systems by itself. (Mistborn:Secret History / Era 2) Spoiler Kelsier was an Allomancer (Preservation's system) but much more Connected to Ruin than to Preservation. Medallions storing Allomantic and Feruchemical ability in Nicrosil (Investiture) IMO confirm that Allomancy and Feruchemy are a matter of your Innate Investiture, not Connection. Magic on Nalthis is also based on having Endowment associated Innate Investiture (Breaths). Surgebinding seems more Connection based, but to a spren, not the Shard itself. 1
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