Let's assassinate a shard of Adonalsium, shall we?

[Trusk'our he/him]

When shards like Odium visit mortals, they seem to need a certain strength of Connection to do so, as we see with Dalinar, Moash, and Taravangian in RoW. But could the reverse be done? Could a mortal who had the ability to manipulate Connection be able to visit a shard in their own realm by manipulating Connection? If a Feruchemist could store the Connection associated with Odium, while hiding themselves from Odium’s future sight via chromium, could they visit Odium and attack him with Nightblood, killing him? This seems like the kind of scheme a certain Scadrian would plan  

[NameIess]

Chromium wouldn't hide you from Odium's future sight. Atium or electrum might, but probably only your immediate future, meaning Odium would still see your intent to kill him, and your plan for doing so. Unless you went with duraluminum atium like Elend did, I doubt you could prevent Odium from knowing your plans. I also highly doubt a feruchemist could force Odium to meet with them. A bondsmith probably could, but I doubt even a duraluminum compounder could force a meeting with Odium. They could likely connect themselves to Odium very strongly, but at most that would just give Odium the ability to take you into a vision. So unless Kelsier got himself Ishar's blade and Nightblood, and learned to use both of them, he won't be killing Odium that easily. Even if he did, Odium could probably counteract it somehow.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Chromium wouldn't hide you from Odium's future sight.

Tapping fortune would.

[NameIess]

22 hours ago, Frustration said:

Tapping fortune would.

Possibly. We don’t know that fortune gives futuresight, or that it would be powerful enough to do that.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Nameless said:

Possibly. We don’t know that fortune gives futuresight, or that it would be powerful enough to do that.

I'm pretty confident

Spoiler

TearablePuns

Can a person compounding Luck defeat a Mistborn burning atium?

Brandon Sanderson

*Hesitantly* Yes. That is theoretically possible. I would say the emphasis on, "Could there?" But it is plausible that that could get around it.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

[NameIess]

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

I'm pretty confident

  Reveal hidden contents

TearablePuns

Can a person compounding Luck defeat a Mistborn burning atium?

Brandon Sanderson

*Hesitantly* Yes. That is theoretically possible. I would say the emphasis on, "Could there?" But it is plausible that that could get around it.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

“Plausible” doesn’t mean it gives futuresight. Vin beat Atium without futuresight. Electrum, which gives barely any futuresight, completely counters atium. Even if fortune just makes you lucky like people on scadrial currently think it does, it could still beat someone with atium.

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Nameless said:

“Plausible” doesn’t mean it gives futuresight. Vin beat Atium without futuresight. Electrum, which gives barely any futuresight, completely counters atium. Even if fortune just makes you lucky like people on scadrial currently think it does, it could still beat someone with atium.

Explaine to me how being lucky is similar to knowing where you need to be. Knowledge isn't luck. Brandon even corrects people at times by pointing out it's Fortune, not luck.

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Explaine to me how being lucky is similar to knowing where you need to be. Knowledge isn't luck. Brandon even corrects people at times by pointing out it's Fortune, not luck.

My point isn’t that fortune just makes you lucky, it is that a lot of things beside future sight powerful enough to completely block a shard can beat Atium.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

My point isn’t that fortune just makes you lucky, it is that a lot of things beside future sight powerful enough to completely block a shard can beat Atium.

Any amount of future sight will mess with any other amount of future sight.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Any amount of future sight will mess with any other amount of future sight.

Atium does not block shardic future sight. It might blur your immediate future, but burning Atium will not immediately cause you to block out futuresight on the level of Renarin.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Nameless

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Atium does not block shard in future sight. It might blur your immediate future, but burning Atium will not immediately cause you to block out futuresight on the level of Renarin.

I have to disagree

Spoiler

Questioner

So the scene at the end of Oathbringer, when Odium is confronting Taravangian and he uses futuresight to expand upon the Diagram, we have this blacked out section with Renarin's name linked to it.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is that because Renarin's abilities interfere with Odium's futuresight similar to how electrum interferes with atium?

Brandon Sanderson

Any time that someone else is seeing the future in the cosmere, it's going to have ripples against your ability. Like they are-- you can't-- It's the same sort of thing that if-- someone who has access to atium is going to mess up anyone else's futuresight in any way, because once you use that it's going to cause you to act differently, which then-- And remember futuresight is not very good in the cosmere anyway. But yeah, it's just gonna mess things up.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

[NameIess]

22 hours ago, Frustration said:

I have to disagree

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

So the scene at the end of Oathbringer, when Odium is confronting Taravangian and he uses futuresight to expand upon the Diagram, we have this blacked out section with Renarin's name linked to it.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is that because Renarin's abilities interfere with Odium's futuresight similar to how electrum interferes with atium?

Brandon Sanderson

Any time that someone else is seeing the future in the cosmere, it's going to have ripples against your ability. Like they are-- you can't-- It's the same sort of thing that if-- someone who has access to atium is going to mess up anyone else's futuresight in any way, because once you use that it's going to cause you to act differently, which then-- And remember futuresight is not very good in the cosmere anyway. But yeah, it's just gonna mess things up.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

“Ripples” does not mean “entirely block the futuresight of a shard. If Atium completely blocked shardic futuresight, Preservation would never have been able to plan anything at all. He definitely wouldn’t have been able to plan centuries into the future. Atium doesn’t change people’s long-term actions, it changes their short-term actions. Therefore it would only affect short-term futuresight. Duralumin Atium like Elend did would block futuresight like Renarin does, but normal Atium would only have a very slight effect at most.

[Frustration]

10 minutes ago, Nameless said:

“Ripples” does not mean “entirely block the futuresight of a shard. If Atium completely blocked shardic futuresight, Preservation would never have been able to plan anything at all. He definitely wouldn’t have been able to plan centuries into the future. Atium doesn’t change people’s long-term actions, it changes their short-term actions. Therefore it would only affect short-term futuresight. Duralumin Atium like Elend did would block futuresight like Renarin does, but normal Atium would only have a very slight effect at most.

If Renarin blocked all future sight Cultivation would not have been able to plan anything.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

If Renarin blocked all future sight Cultivation would not have been able to plan anything.

He blocks all future sight related to him and everyone close to him. There are tons of mistborn and inquisitors, including TLR, that interact with tons of people that are essential to the future of Scadrial. Furthermore, Brandon wishes he let every allomancer burn Atium, which changes the number of dark spots from dozens to hundreds, perhaps even thousands. Name one important person on Scadrial that has not interacted with an allomancer. Can’t? Well that means that all of those people are at least slightly blurry in futuresight. Do you see how ridiculous that would be?

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, Nameless said:

He blocks all future sight related to him and everyone close to him. There are tons of mistborn and inquisitors, including TLR, that interact with tons of people that are essential to the future of Scadrial. Furthermore, Brandon wishes he let every allomancer burn Atium, which changes the number of dark spots from dozens to hundreds, perhaps even thousands. Name one important person on Scadrial that has not interacted with an allomancer. Can’t? Well that means that all of those people are at least slightly blurry in futuresight. Do you see how ridiculous that would be?

It's a huge part of Cultivations plan that Odium isn't able to see Taravangian's future because Renarin is nearby, yet she doesn't seen to have a huge problem with that.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

It's a huge part of Cultivations plan that Odium isn't able to see Taravangian's future because Renarin is nearby, yet she doesn't seen to have a huge problem with that.

A single dark spot can be moved and manipulated. A thousand makes it impossible to see anything at all.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

A single dark spot can be moved and manipulated. A thousand makes it impossible to see anything at all.

Hard to manipulate what you can't see. Harder still to use it.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Frustration

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Hard to manipulate what you can't see. Harder still to use it.

Well, Cultivation did get lucky. Taravangian pointed that out. Besides, you can still manipulate people to go into that darkness if you want. You just have to accept that you will lose sight of them as much as anyone else. With a thousand points of darkness, you can’t stop anyone from getting out of your sight.

[Frustration]

6 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Well, Cultivation did get lucky. Taravangian pointed that out. Besides, you can still manipulate people to go into that darkness if you want. You just have to accept that you will lose sight of them as much as anyone else. With a thousand points of darkness, you can’t stop anyone from getting out of your sight.

Considering MB

Spoiler

Most of the prophesies are unfinished, and Leras wanted Ruin contained at all costs, I think that giving Vin Preservation was more of a failsave, a final gambit if you will. Not something he forsaw.

 

[#1 Taln Fan he/him]

I do wonder… 

Mistborn era 2 

Spoiler

Trellium spikes hid Paalm from Harmony, and obscured her future from him. We don’t know if it hides the subject from all shards or just from Harmony. Could you have invisible Trell assassins taking out other shards? 

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 hours ago, Ookla the Taln Fan said:

I do wonder… 

Mistborn era 2 

  Hide contents

Trellium spikes hid Paalm from Harmony, and obscured her future from him. We don’t know if it hides the subject from all shards or just from Harmony. Could you have invisible Trell assassins taking out other shards? 

 

Ooooo...I like that idea. Unless they're attacking Sazed, of course; he's the best shard that we've seen, in my opinion.

[#1 Taln Fan he/him]

@Trusk'ourthis is the stormlight board, so I’m pretty sure that needs a spoiler tag. : )

Mistborn era 2

Spoiler

And yes, I was thinking that assassinating Sazed would be what Trell and the Set would have in mind. I don’t, however, think Brandon will go this direction, at least not in Era 2. Hypothetically it would be possible I think, though I hope the Set never gets a hold of Nightblood.

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Taln Fan said:

@Trusk'ourthis is the stormlight board, so I’m pretty sure that needs a spoiler tag. : )

Mistborn era 2

  Hide contents

And yes, I was thinking that assassinating Sazed would be what Trell and the Set would have in mind. I don’t, however, think Brandon will go this direction, at least not in Era 2. Hypothetically it would be possible I think, though I hope the Set never gets a hold of Nightblood.

 

As to what's in the hidden contents, same here as to what I think.

[AonEne he/him]

I have moved this to Cosmere Discussion, as it seems to be better suited there. 

[apepi]

I do wonder if you could suck the Identity out of a whole shard, could you like, unkey a whole shard? Take away it's investiture so it is just blank investiture? That would be real interesting way to 'kill' one.