What happens if the Nightwatcher dies?

[Ashspren]

@Ishar and I were discussing who the third Bondsmith might be, and he presented an interesting idea: What if there is no Bondsmith? With the anti-light, what if Odium's first move is to kill the Nightwatcher, eliminating the third Bondsmith spren? 

Whether or not this will actually happen is worth discussing, but this also poses another question. We know that lots of people have boons from the Nightwatcher, including Lift, Dalinar, and Taravangian. What would happen to these people––and to Roshar in general––if Odium kills the Nightwatcher?

Just curious to see what everyone thinks! 

[+Invocation]

If Odium were to kill the Nightwatcher, I'm pretty sure the Old Magic would stay in place. They don't seem to be things that would require constant upkeep from her. Kind of like Hemalurgy, except without a spike to be removed to return the subject to their normal point. If they were constantly monitored, I don't think it would be possible to steal the Old Magic with Hemalurgy, which was said to be possible.
But just in general, it would be a really bad idea for Odium to mess with her at all. There's something other than boons and banes that Cultivation's magic can do (per a WOB), which right now is not happening at all. If Cultivation lost the Nightwatcher, she'd probably open those floodgates, not to mention the instant and undying hatred from every cultivationspren ever, even more than already. Really just not a good idea.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

This would be QUITE the twist, but I'm not sure it would have as dramatic a ripple-effect as you're describing, since I believe Dalinar, Lift, and Taravangian's boons were all granted by Cultivation directly, rather than the Nightwatcher. Plus, I'm not even certain the boon/curse is attached to her, and not just a little thing attached to the spiritweb, like a custom Breath or something. So it might do nothing but prevent a Lifelight Bondsmith (which would, to be fair, have SERIOUS repercussions for the potential power output of Team Honor).

[Ethan_sedai he/him]

It's possible it would have a similar effect to the capturing of BAM, and all of the people who had been given boons from the nightwatcher would end up like the parshmen. 

Although, the list of people affected would not include Dalinar, Lift, or Taravangian, because they all received a boon directly from cultivation. 

[Letryx13]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

This would be QUITE the twist, but I'm not sure it would have as dramatic a ripple-effect as you're describing, since I believe Dalinar, Lift, and Taravangian's boons were all granted by Cultivation directly, rather than the Nightwatcher. Plus, I'm not even certain the boon/curse is attached to her, and not just a little thing attached to the spiritweb, like a custom Breath or something. So it might do nothing but prevent a Lifelight Bondsmith (which would, to be fair, have SERIOUS repercussions for the potential power output of Team Honor).

I agree, it would be a good twist, especially since we haven't had much interaction with her directly.  Although, in a way, that makes her a good candidate for a spren to be killed. She'd be a huge loss, without it being a major emotional investment.  

Although, I'm not sure how much the anti-light is going to impact the next book.  So far, it seems like some of the biggest conflicts in each book are less important in the subsequent book.

[Honorless he/him]

I don't think Odium would be able to though. We have WoBs that Odium can't just go ahead and kill someone on Roshar (though his agents like the Fused, Thunderclast, etc can), iirc that was part of what's binding him on Braize. And I think this restriction also applies to killing spren and was a part of the reason why he didn't kill the Stormfather (that and Rayse believed that it wouldn't be necessary) or the other Radiant spren. I don't think any of Odium's agents can just go and off Nightwatcher, it wouldn't be a guaranteed kill, though it might be a gambit he'd be willing to take. Plus, Cultivation would probably take action.

As for effects, Nightwatcher doesn't seem to be an integral part of Roshar as far as we can see, but we can't see very far. No one expected imprisoning Ba-Ado-Mishram to have such far reaching consequences either. Even if the Nightwatcher was created by Cultivation and not Adonalsium, we know that Odium's Rhythm integrated into the Pure Tones of Roshar, similarly she might've become something more integral. But the Nightwatcher is not a Shard, so Lifelight would still be there, that is Cultivation's and even killing and Splintering Cultivation wouldn't change that, Stormlight still exists after Honor's Splintering. Though Lifelight doesn't seem to have as robust of a distribution system, there might be problems with acquisition, I guess? But that could be mitigated by Navani's research into the Rhythms. The Boon and Banes, I agree, would not be affected, I don't think they're continuously drawing on the Nightwatcher or anything like that. They're probably alterations of the Spiritweb. In the cases we've seen anyway... Lift could be an exception to the continuous drawing but her Connection is to Cultivation I think.

[Humble_Knight]

I think it might have some effect on the magical symbiosis on Roshar. What exactly, I don't know, but given Cultivation's connection to growth, I think the bondsmith spren of Cultivation is connected to that. 

That said, I think it would be really difficult to acquire enough lifelight to kill a spren the size of the Nightwatcher. We know approximately 3 ways of obtaining lifelight, and short of bonding the Nightwatcher and then using that source to kill her, they won't give enough light to kill her. I think sealing her in a gemstone or turning her into a deadeye are more likely, but neither of those will happen in book 5.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Humble_Knight

[Sp00ks]

What exactly would killing the Nightwatcher gain Odium? Yeah, bondsmiths are important, but wouldn't he be better off killing the stormfather or the sibling?

[Honorless he/him]

10 hours ago, Sp00ks said:

What exactly would killing the Nightwatcher gain Odium? Yeah, bondsmiths are important, but wouldn't he be better off killing the stormfather or the sibling?

Good point, killing either of them would be better as they both provide something much more necessary to his enemies: Stormlight, their primary source of Investiture, and their headquarters. Plus, they're huge targets. The Stormfather has to move with the Highstorm and the Sibling is a stationary building. And Odium did try to get the Sibling, and hey, if the Night of Sorrows prediction is correct, the Stormfather might be in danger.

[Sp00ks]

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

Good point, killing either of them would be better as they both provide something much more necessary to his enemies: Stormlight, their primary source of Investiture, and their headquarters. 

Can the Sibling produce usable investiture? Sorta off topic, but can Radiants use Towerlight? We know most Radiants can't use Lifelight, and we know Lift can't use Stormlight. Can nobody but Navani use Towerlight? Or can everyone?

[Honorless he/him]

47 minutes ago, Sp00ks said:

Can the Sibling produce usable investiture? Sorta off topic, but can Radiants use Towerlight? We know most Radiants can't use Lifelight, and we know Lift can't use Stormlight. Can nobody but Navani use Towerlight? Or can everyone?

Well, they're all usable Investiture for their own associated Invested Arts, I'd imagine, plus for fabrials but the Knights Radiant as we've seen them... have not interacted with Towerlight so far. Although, Voidlight can power Surgebinding, it looks like and Lifelight too, it seems, the problem is just their method of distribution makes them less accessible. Presumably, Towerlight, Warlight and... let's call it Rebellionlight, can be used to power the Surges too, might not work as well as Stormlight though, perhaps fueling some Surges better than others or something along those lines.

[Sp00ks]

21 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Well, they're all usable Investiture for their own associated Invested Arts, I'd imagine, plus for fabrials but the Knights Radiant as we've seen them... have not interacted with Towerlight so far. Although, Voidlight can power Surgebinding, it looks like and Lifelight too, it seems, the problem is just their method of distribution makes them less accessible. Presumably, Towerlight, Warlight and... let's call it Rebellionlight, can be used to power the Surges too, might not work as well as Stormlight though, perhaps fueling some Surges better than others or something along those lines.

This isn't true in the way that you think. Yes, Voidlight and Lifelight can power surgebinding. But they cannot power *all* surgebinding. Lift can use Lifelight (at least Lifelight she metabolizes though maybe from gems too) to power stormlight, but she cannot use Stormlight, or presumably any other light. Following this logic, I doubt a regular KR would be able to use Lifelight or Voidlight or Tower/Warlight either. Maybe they could use War or Towerlight since they use Stormlight, but that's not exactly guaranteed as War/tower are more than just 1 light + 1 light. It's greater than the sun of its parts and more of its own thing