I'm about to start crying in public.

[Elsecaller_17.5]

 Chapter 10 hit me like I a storming boulder. I know how Kaladin feels, being told he can't serve anymore. Being lied to that his work will be just as important.  Most of all I have the same fear as Kaladin, what if he never swears the next oath?

[*{kara}*]

I agree, this chapter was sooo hard to read. I imagine it would be even worse if I related to that personally.

I was kind of scared that Kaladin wouldn’t swear his 4th oath too, for a bit, but I don’t think he’ll be stagnant forever. I think he’ll have some breakthrough during his time off and it will lead to him swearing the ideal. A lot of his current guilt will be resolved by that oath, imo, so hopefully that will take a load off his back

[ftl]

From a literary-tropes perspective, I think Kaladin saying out loud (or thinking out loud, to the reader) "I think I'll never swear the fourth oath" makes it much more likely that, later in this same book, he'll find a way to swear the fourth oath.

...for me, this chapter was more of a "phew, that wasn't as bad as it could have been" chapter. Because I can see how horrible Kaladin feels... ...but I was scared that he'd be benched after freezing and watching someone from Bridge 4 die because of it. So if Dalinar catches his issues in time to take him off the field before that, well, it sucks but it's better than the alternative.

[Elsecaller_17.5]

2 hours ago, ftl said:

From a literary-tropes perspective, I think Kaladin saying out loud (or thinking out loud, to the reader) "I think I'll never swear the fourth oath" makes it much more likely that, later in this same book, he'll find a way to swear the fourth oath.

Brandon isn't known for sticking to literary tropes.

[Subvisual Haze]

 

13 hours ago, *{kara}* said:

I agree, this chapter was sooo hard to read. I imagine it would be even worse if I related to that personally.

As someone with depression, oddly enough these preview chapters aren't hitting me as hard as previous Kaladin sections have.  I guess it's all a matter of individual variances and life experiences.  I read these chapters as being at the end of a depressive experience, where things are about to get better.  

The chapters that hit me the hardest are where Kal can feel himself slowly worsening and sinking into a depressive episode.  WoK part 1, WoR when Syl was mostly dead, OB in Shadesmar are big examples.

I guess from my perspective its more important where I feel the depressive cycle is moving rather than where it currently is.

[Kalaksbreath]

10 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Brandon isn't known for sticking to literary tropes.

While I agree with this for the most part I don't think this is a big enough troupe for Brandon to take it out or avoid it.

[The Tenth Pancake]

We're only 10 chapters in Brando! Quit making me cry!!!

But actually though. I did think that Kaladin needed to find some way to take a break but man is it hard to read it. I reallly do appreciate Dalinar in how he presented the situation to Kaladin, and he pulled him out before him possibly freezing and one of Bridge Four dying as a result. The "you're supposed to be better than the others" "why?" "because..." Because you care about your men." was as really powerful interaction. 

[Aminar]

22 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Brandon isn't known for sticking to literary tropes.

It strikes me more that this is putting things in a position where Kaladin will be swearing the Fourth Oath sooner than later. We know Part 1 is basically the finale of the hidden drawn out year of war. It makes sense that Kal gets a big finale moment towards the end of part 1 and then we get to see the fallout from that for the rest of the book. 

[ftl]

The finale of that year were these past chapters, the new airship successfully rescuing Hearthstone and Kal fighting off the new Fabrial and surviving Moash, Shallan taking down Ialai. The bits after that are transitioning to buildup again.

I think this fourth oath thing is setting up the next long arc, not gearing up for a quick resolution. (Just like Shallan's fourth Truth, which she says she can't say.)

[+Oltux72]

31 minutes ago, Aminar said:

It strikes me more that this is putting things in a position where Kaladin will be swearing the Fourth Oath sooner than later. We know Part 1 is basically the finale of the hidden drawn out year of war. It makes sense that Kal gets a big finale moment towards the end of part 1 and then we get to see the fallout from that for the rest of the book. 

Such as deciding that the 4th oath is wrong and rejecting it?

[ftl]

Ooh, now THAT would be interesting.

[Aminar]

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Such as deciding that the 4th oath is wrong and rejecting it?

Doubtful. It flies in the face of the system and leaves him in a stagnant spot. Kaladin is the face of Radiance for the first half, our guide in. Him aborting that arc would really mess with the structure. Beyond that, the oath isn't wrong. We can see what he struggles with. His failures. He can't move on from Toen or Elhokar or anybody else he's let die. And you can't live a healthy life obsessing over your failures. Kal has to learn what Dalinar did, but in a different way. That's the oath. It's not wrong. It's just hard as hell to live up to. 

 

We haven't finished the finale part either. There will be more. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Aminar

[Elsecaller_17.5]

On 9/9/2020 at 7:30 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

 

As someone with depression, oddly enough these preview chapters aren't hitting me as hard as previous Kaladin sections have.  I guess it's all a matter of individual variances and life experiences.  I read these chapters as being at the end of a depressive experience, where things are about to get better.  

The chapters that hit me the hardest are where Kal can feel himself slowly worsening and sinking into a depressive episode.  WoK part 1, WoR when Syl was mostly dead, OB in Shadesmar are big examples.

I guess from my perspective its more important where I feel the depressive cycle is moving rather than where it currently is.

For we it's more that I've experienced the same thing. I'm convinced Brandon got a copy of my journal somehow. 

[Krafl]

On 8/9/2020 at 11:09 PM, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

 Chapter 10 hit me like I a storming boulder. I know how Kaladin feels, being told he can't serve anymore. Being lied to that his work will be just as important.  Most of all I have the same fear as Kaladin, what if he never swears the next oath?

I've felt the same way as Kaladin very recently: enreasonably exhausted about what i do and convinced that i am impotent and that i am not in control of my life anymore. But actually these chapters have been kind of heartening, i've felt less alone and i am starting to feel a spark of hope about feeling better. I can not wait to read RoW and how Kaladin Journey will continue.

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 9/8/2020 at 5:09 PM, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

 Chapter 10 hit me like I a storming boulder. I know how Kaladin feels, being told he can't serve anymore. Being lied to that his work will be just as important.  Most of all I have the same fear as Kaladin, what if he never swears the next oath?

Why do you assume he’s being lied to? Training is just as, if not more, important than being on the field, which was what Dalinar initially intended. Generals aren’t on the field, but their work is vital to the success of those who are. Same for intelligence agents, not to mention all the civilian positions without which the army would collapse. To suggest otherwise is rather insulting to everyone who isn’t in an active combat role.

[Elsecaller_17.5]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Why do you assume he’s being lied to?

Personal experience.

I didn't mean any offense to the military or anyone who works with them and I apologize if it came off that way. At the very least though I think Kaladin would agree with me.

[Karger]

38 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

I didn't mean any offense to the military or anyone who works with them and I apologize if it came off that way. At the very least though I think Kaladin would agree with me.

I think Kaladin doing some useful work somewhere is more useful then him dying and possibly getting a bunch of other people killed.

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:25 AM, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Personal experience.

I didn't mean any offense to the military or anyone who works with them and I apologize if it came off that way. At the very least though I think Kaladin would agree with me.

Kaladin would agree, but if this was pointed out would probably admit that it’s insulting to the non-combat personnel. And admit their duties are just as important.

The issue is that he can’t see that when it comes to himself. Dalinar has always tried to be honest with Kaladin. I doubt he’s lying now, though Kal does feel that way. He just happens to be wrong, but the emotion is completely legitimate.

[Elsecaller_17.5]

On 9/14/2020 at 10:04 AM, Karger said:

I think Kaladin doing some useful work somewhere is more useful then him dying and possibly getting a bunch of other people killed.

I agree completely, but I'm speaking of personal experience and feelings. Not logic.

[Karger]

20 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

I agree completely, but I'm speaking of personal experience and feelings. Not logic.

He might feel that way but he knows better.  I also think Dalinar deserves a lot of credit for pulling him from the roster. 

[Aon Tia]

7 hours ago, Karger said:

He might feel that way but he knows better.  I also think Dalinar deserves a lot of credit for pulling him from the roster. 

Only Dalinar could bench Kaladin Stormblessed. His past star performer on the field. 
I think we as readers and Kaladin, we all should trust Dalinar’s instincts that this is a time to give Kal a break. 
And we readers, should also have faith in kaladin’s resilience that he will find his way back. 
May be, if he realises that in his absence, bridge 4 are not doing any worse will help him calm down. 
He has trained them well and I think it is now time for Kal to let go, a little, let them grow. 
That can not happen fully as long as they expect Kal to swoop in and save them!

Edited September 17, 2020 by The Traveller