20200420 - Fall of the Imperium Ch 11 - 3853 words - Sub 22

[Mandamon]

Two chapters this week again! Thanks everyone for helping out with this. Both chapters are actually in the word count this time! Amazing.

SUB 22
Chapter 11, is also S. The second half of the adventure, finally dealing with the wall (instead of like five times last go round). Let me know what you think!

Previously:
S/E/I arrive in the other facet with their news of the Elg. The Eff and court are there, E has problems with trust, and E/I learn about their folks. The Eff faints shortly thereafter. E battles the voices inside her as they travel to the Ari, and attacks S. In the Ari enclave, I struggles with his image, we learn of the Ari, and E and I use each other's houses for the first time.
M arrives with the society to the Imp and is attacked by Elg. People die and M finds himself with more and more responsibility as they attempt to figure out what's going on. They learn the Eff is also killed, and M makes clever use of a portal to save his life.
Ri and co arrive on HD's homeworld, gather themselves, then engage the Elg in the Imp. They barely escape, and find out where other refugees have gone.
S/E/I learn more about the Ari and find there's only one hammock in the bedroom.

[kais]

Overall

Some fantastically tense scenes in here! Loved the trip through the crystal again. Some motivation issues early on that didn't get rectified, but as with the last chapter, once they were in the crystal it was fantastic. S has really grown, and really naturally, too. He's a delight of a POV.

Also, I like getting two chapters at a time. It really helps me stay with the narrative and keep the tension up.

 

As I go

- pg 1: the epigraph says the nether has all these properties, but I feel like we only ever see the crystal part and the water part. Never the plant or animal part

- pg 1: darker than he what he would expect <-- typo in here

- pg 2: why would darkness put them at more of a disadvantage, if the Elgy already block the path? I'm still not certain where they are in the wall

- pg 5: I don't understand why they are trying again. What has changed? Aren't they just going to fail again???

- pg 7: ah, I see. This seems a little out of order. I'd think S would propose this higher non-bridge and then they'd argue whether going back was a good idea or not

- pg 9: I just ran the entire length of the bridge between our facets when we were both certain we wouldn’t make it <-- this seems like a weak argument. Doesn't he want to understand how or why he did that before relying on it for the next pass?

- pg 12: I like the joining of all the house notes and the imagery a lot. I remain confused as to why they are going back so quickly though, and why they feel confident things will be different this time. Oddly, I think a bit more discussion is needed before more action 

- pg 18: VERY TENSE

- pg 18: so...they're all turning back? I thought I had popped through to the other side? No?

- love that ending! But why the 'save E' part? Didn't she pop out with I??

[CherishLarain]

I enjoyed the description/scene inside the crystal. Your descriptions gave me a good visual to imagine what the place looked like.

I don't mind/care they are trying again. I am confused on where they plan on going. Do they know where they are going?

I liked the spooky voices. When they said they wanted their playground BACK, I was like, "wooo tell me more about you and your agenda bad guys!"

I felt that S saying "If I am to be different....." on page 19 very cheesy for this kind of situation.

[Sarah B]

Alot of great stuff in this chapter! I also liked the voice and the reactions to it. The description of the Es from inside the wall was my favorite detail.

My only hang up is that E getting stranded doesn't seem to have the impact I was expecting, especially with how protective S and I normally are with her. A little more reaction might go a long way.

Just my opinion though!

Thanks for sharing

[Mandamon]

Thanks @kais, @CherishLarain, and @Sarah B!

On 4/20/2020 at 10:54 PM, kais said:

Some motivation issues early on that didn't get rectified

 

On 4/20/2020 at 10:54 PM, kais said:

This seems a little out of order. I'd think S would propose this higher non-bridge and then they'd argue whether going back was a good idea or not

Good catch. I was moving a lot of passages around while rewriting so I'll look back at the order to make sure everything makes sense.

On 4/22/2020 at 1:14 AM, CherishLarain said:

I felt that S saying "If I am to be different....." on page 19 very cheesy for this kind of situation.

Ha! yeah, I sort of thought that too. That line will probably change.

On 4/20/2020 at 10:54 PM, kais said:

But why the 'save E' part? Didn't she pop out with I??

 

11 hours ago, Sarah B said:

My only hang up is that E getting stranded doesn't seem to have the impact I was expecting, especially with how protective S and I normally are with her. A little more reaction might go a long way.

@kais - E was pushed through the wall, on the wrong side of the Elg.

@Sarah B - Good catch and I'll work on that. Hard to write emoting with no words! 

Thanks again!

[shatteredsmooth]

This chapter was good last time but it is even better now! 

In the first section especially, I felt like every sentence, even every word was pulling its weight. There was lots of tension. I loved how S, I, and A all worked together.

While they were going through the wall, I was really believing it was going to work, worried that meant you had cut the chapter when E poses as one of the El, and then bam, she goes through and the others can't. It was well done! 

I'm on the fence about the last part, the one where S is running up the wall. I got a good visual of that, but I'm wondering if it is enough, or if there could be a little more. More description, more of the moment. I've been re-watching all the MCU movies, and while I was reading that part, I kept thinking of the Mirror Dimension from Dr. Strange. 

I am very much looking forward to the next chapter. 

[Mandamon]

7 minutes ago, shatteredsmooth said:

I'm on the fence about the last part, the one where S is running up the wall. I got a good visual of that, but I'm wondering if it is enough, or if there could be a little more. More description, more of the moment. I've been re-watching all the MCU movies, and while I was reading that part, I kept thinking of the Mirror Dimension from Dr. Strange. 

Thanks @shatteredsmooth! Glad this is working better. Yeah, I was having the same feeling when I read through that section. Channeling the mirror dimension may be a good way to put some more description in there!

[Robinski]

Comments.

(page 1)

- "the light seemed darker" - confused.

(page 3)

- "Lack of luminescent light" - confused. Luminescent means light not generated by heat, but I think WW means visible light, doesn't xy? Also, who is xy addressing? S? But the Ar can change themselves, as E mentions. WW knows this, doesn't xy?

(page 4)

- "They are like a disease" - Ooh, nice thought.

- "made his stomach crumple inward" - it's not much of an argument, this seems like an over reaction to me.

(page 6)

- "How far up the wall can they go?" - This is disappointing to me. I really enjoyed when S had the idea of going high in the spur of the moment, while trying to battle through. The scene where he shot up and out of the wall was very exciting, and it was great initiation and agency to make the decision in the moment. having it planned out, premeditated is much, much less exciting and satisfying, IMO.

(page 7)

- "Thus our transit across the wall" - I'm enjoying being aboard the logic train and hearing this theory unfold.

(page 8)

- "feeling oddly like MC" - awesome!

(page 9)

- "So it might be possible after all" - Hmm. WW states something as a known fact, then S say, well, no. But it's a really passive moment. Also, is S not saying that he made it possible? That seems to be the key, but no one acknowledges it. "I cannot say what will happen" - but you just did, and S refuted it.

(page 10)

- "I think I can help" - But he's already doing the one thing

(page 12)

- "Fascinating,” WW observed." - I've just seen it, WW is Spock.

- "as if a ten-foot tall person was sitting right behind him" - I don't feel this image, seems very abstract.

- I enjoyed the description of them constructing the... construct of protection.

(page 13)

- "never taught him anything like this" - Why would this surprise him? I think this is unfair to Or, since there are two houses in use here, three in fact, which Or has now knowledge of. Okay, S may be talking about the technique, but I still think it's unfair on Or.

- "If there had been wind, it would have whistled through his hair" - Eh? I think most of the whistling when travelling at speed comes from the motion of the person relative to the air. The wind in the hair is a misnomer. I don't think it's got anything to do with wind. If there had been any air in the wall, they would have felt it whistling, regardless of any wind being present.

(page 14)

- "It was the music of the wall itself" - fantastic line.

- "back was to them and she reached the other side first, bursting through like a projectile" - I was thrown here. As they approached, there was no sense of them relying themselves to go through the wall, so this felt anticlimactic to me. We got description of the El, but nothing about S readying himself for the last push, the moment of breakthrough. I sounds from the description like they just stroll up to the wall and saunter through. "projectile out of a cannon" - I just don't feel this.

And pushing El away from her in a sphere" - it's the sphere that pushes them away--the construct--not En.

I have trouble with what is happening here: it's very difficult to grasp. En shoots out of the wall, but the others don't make it through? That's hard to follow because En is shoot like from a canon. In the time it take to describe that, the others would be through, travelling at that speed.

(page 15)

- "flew through the air in slow motion" - Okay, but I think the description needs to be much clearer. Can she be flung out of the bubble when it comes to a crashing halt? Maybe she even manages to shoot through a hole between the El even as the bubble begins to slow. I don't know, I found it hard to relate to the physics of what happened.

(page 16)

- "Would he dissolve like the Ef" - Why would he doubt this would be the case? It would be more engaging if he made a positive statement, I think. 'He would dissolve like the Eff'.

(page 18)

- "NOW MORE PARTS OF MY BEING ARE HERE" - I don't like the vagueness of this statement, specifically 'more parts'. How many is more, 10, 100, 1,000? Is there a critical mass that permits the entity to see him? More parts is effectively meaningless, it seems to me.

(page 21)

- "The surface of the wall crawled toward him" - I feel like there are mixed messages in the references to the distance and the wall approaching (or not). The pacing here seems uneven. How long is too long? Can he not just run to the wall, and it gets closer? He accelerated himself last time.

(page 22)

- Nice last line. I suggested a slight tweak in the LBLs I sent, for impact. 

Overall 

Good chapter. I like this and I like how it ends with him bursting out into the air. If anything, I think that image deserves another line or two to really driver it home, but I think the symbolism of him bursting back into the Imp and being free (albeit really high up!!) is an excellent one. Nicely done.

[Mandamon]

Thanks as always @Robinski!

1 hour ago, Robinski said:

- "Fascinating,” WW observed." - I've just seen it, WW is Spock.

Ha! Yeah, I debated heavily putting this in because of the connotations, but eventually decided it fit.

1 hour ago, Robinski said:

- I enjoyed the description of them constructing the... construct of protection

Cool.

1 hour ago, Robinski said:

I have trouble with what is happening here: it's very difficult to grasp. En shoots out of the wall, but the others don't make it through? That's hard to follow because En is shoot like from a canon. In the time it take to describe that, the others would be through, travelling at that speed.

Sounds like I have some work to do with this description, since a few people have had problems with it. Will work on clearing it up!

1 hour ago, Robinski said:

I don't like the vagueness of this statement, specifically 'more parts'. How many is more, 10, 100, 1,000? Is there a critical mass that permits the entity to see him? More parts is effectively meaningless, it seems to me.

Will make this specific.

1 hour ago, Robinski said:

- "The surface of the wall crawled toward him" - I feel like there are mixed messages in the references to the distance and the wall approaching (or not). The pacing here seems uneven. How long is too long? Can he not just run to the wall, and it gets closer? He accelerated himself last time

Yep, another place where description is hard. I may go work with @shatteredsmooth's suggestion to make it more trippy...though that may make it worse. I'll fiddle with it.

1 hour ago, Robinski said:

Good chapter. I like this and I like how it ends with him bursting out into the air. If anything, I think that image deserves another line or two to really driver it home, but I think the symbolism of him bursting back into the Imp and being free (albeit really high up!!) is an excellent one. Nicely done

Awesome. Seems to be working better overall, in any case.

[Snakenaps]

Late...so late. Did not read everyone else's critiques, the usual, yada yada.

Thoughts as I go!

Pg 1, "We couldn’t have been in there that long," This makes me wonder about my theory of Master Memory Wipe being a time traveler. 

Pg 2, "How many have come through while we’ve been safe and relaxed?" I would be feeling major guilt here...

Pg 3, "Lack of luminescent light does not hinder Specie N": Noted: WW can see in the dark.

Pg 3, "infested with them without being able to see them clearly" I feel like that is a poor idea even when one can see. 

Pg 3, " It is as if they do not show in the V" Do they eat the time stream? Are they somehow out of it? Do the Elg not count as living creatures? 

Pg 3, "from making things...disappear" What have the Elg made disappear with S watching? My brain is fuzzy, I can't remember.

Pg 4, "They are like a disease which the N has not yet figured out how to fight." This reminds me of my comment that I made last time: the darkening of the N wasn't like it was worried, it was like it was sick. Infected. 

Pg 4, " There’s no telling what they’ve done." They've definitely killed a lot of people...

Pg 6, "The three of you will protect me." I believe this, because E and I will protect S because they love him. WW will protect him because it is in xyr (xy's?) self interest to not kill xy's kind-of apprentice (I feel like I butchered the conjugation of that pronoun).

Pg 8, "Xy waved her rightmost claw."

Pg 9, "So we can’t leave that set path," And it appears Master Memory Wipe may know this...Is MMW having the Elg eat through this "bridge" through the crystal, to infect the next Facet? Or it is to simply block S and Co. from coming through?

Pg 11, "a strain of thundering base" Would this be bass? I don't know much about music...

Pg 15, " like lizards bathing in the sun" This is a surprisingly nice way to describe the Elg. I'm picturing worms lying on the sidewalk or crocodiles lying in wake.  

Pg 15, "I SEE YOU." Uh oh!

Pg 16, "I WILL NOT LET YOU PASS." But E passed...did E agree to something, maybe that she was not aware of...? Hmmm...

Pg 16, "THIS ENTIRE UNIVERSE USED TO BE MY PLAYGROUND": Well, shards, the Diss isn't a what, it's a freakin' who. I have some very choice words going through my brain at the moment. 

Pg 17, "THEN YOUR SERVANT WILL DIE." E was allowed to pass through because she is BAIT.... D:

Pg 18, "No." I agree heartily here. My stomach hurts. I don't like this. How about we return to happier times, please? Let's go back a few chapters to Ari festivities. 

Pg 20, "to the same physics as the rest of the"

Pg 23, "he fell." CLIFFHANGER!? CLIFFHANGER???? Thank God I ended up critiquing on Sunday night. At least I don't have to wait a week for the next chapter. A CLIFFHANGER!!!! UGH!!!! I'm stressed and worried and I want to know what happens next. @Mandamon you are currently not one of my favorite people!

[Mandamon]

Thanks @Snakenaps!

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

"We couldn’t have been in there that long," This makes me wonder about my theory of Master Memory Wipe being a time traveler. 

not...precisely...

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

" It is as if they do not show in the V" Do they eat the time stream? Are they somehow out of it? Do the Elg not count as living creatures?

This should get explained later on. Let me know if it isn't.

 

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

"from making things...disappear" What have the Elg made disappear with S watching? My brain is fuzzy, I can't remember.

Just the Eff.

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

Pg 4, "They are like a disease which the N has not yet figured out how to fight." This reminds me of my comment that I made last time: the darkening of the N wasn't like it was worried, it was like it was sick. Infected. 

Yep!

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

Pg 8, "Xy waved her rightmost claw."

Doh. Thanks.

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

Pg 9, "So we can’t leave that set path," And it appears Master Memory Wipe may know this...Is MMW having the Elg eat through this "bridge" through the crystal, to infect the next Facet? Or it is to simply block S and Co. from coming through?

These are good questions!

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

Pg 11, "a strain of thundering base" Would this be bass? I don't know much about music...

I looked this up because @Robinski made the opposite remark on an earlier chapter. "Bass" is technically correct for only a music term. "Base" just means low, or a foundation. So it could sort of be either in this situation?

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

, " like lizards bathing in the sun" This is a surprisingly nice way to describe the Elg. I'm picturing worms lying on the sidewalk or crocodiles lying in wake.

Ha. Lizards with too many legs and teeth on their bellies...

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

E was allowed to pass through because she is BAIT.... D:

yep.

9 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

Pg 23, "he fell." CLIFFHANGER!? CLIFFHANGER???? Thank God I ended up critiquing on Sunday night. At least I don't have to wait a week for the next chapter. A CLIFFHANGER!!!! UGH!!!! I'm stressed and worried and I want to know what happens next. @Mandamon you are currently not one of my favorite people!

Ha! Except I moved a chapter forward, so you'll have to wait another week anyway...

Thanks again...great feedback!

[Snakenaps]

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

Ha! Except I moved a chapter forward, so you'll have to wait another week anyway...

I thought this was fitting because Luke is hanging off of a kind-of cliff, and that's where you left me.

[Mandamon]

1 minute ago, Snakenaps said:

I thought this was fitting because Luke is hanging off of a kind-of cliff, and that's where you left me.

Hahahaha!

I think that's my first literal cliff-hanger (or fall-er...)!

Edited April 27, 2020 by Mandamon

[Robinski]

On 27/04/2020 at 4:20 PM, Mandamon said:

Hahahaha!

I think that's my first literal cliff-hanger (or fall-er...)!

Hmmmmmmm, having read Journey... I'm not entirely convinced about this.

[Mandamon]

23 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Hmmmmmmm, having read Journey... I'm not entirely convinced about this.

Oh yeah...you may be right!