Quick Fix 42: Alcatraz vs. the Watakotse Infiltration

[DeTess]

Okay, I've stalled long enough in the hope that someone will make this easier for me, so let's see about placing a vote. Removing Cadcom, Elkanah and me from the list leaves me with eight potential candidates. StrikerEZ, feruchemical skybreaker and @Devotary of Spontaneity haven't spoken up enough yet for me to form any kind of read on them.

Kynedath... oh, right, i'd meant to respond to something.

1 hour ago, Kynedath said:

Just the fact that CadCom is mostly cleared in my eyes, plus they were attacked and Rathmaskal voted on them. I know it's not much, but again my suspicion list is very small.

Right, but Cadcom wasn't as cleared last cycle, and voting on villagers isn't something solely reserved for elims.

Anyway, I'm not certain on kynedath, but they sound fairly similar to what they sounded like the last game we played together, though a skilled elim shouldn't have any obvious differences there. As they're fairly active and pushing discussion somewhat, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

Zillah hasn't spoken up too much either yet, but their post in response to my question sounds a bit villagery. An elim probably wouldn't be looking fora confrontation with a very active player so early on in the game yet, at any rate.

So, that leaves me with butt ad venture, the god king and Rathmaskal. Rathmaskal has certainly been riding more under the radar than they usually do. I've got a PM with them though, and there weren't any red flags there (though I'm notoriously bad at reading people through PM's).

Butt ad Venture has posted a bit, but he hasn't given that many clues to his alignment yet. @Butt Ad Venture, do I understand correctly from your post just now that you would support a Rathmaskal lynch?

Lastly, there's the god king. I don't like their posts around when the lycnh on kidpen formed, as it seemed like he at the same time wanted to push back against that lynch, and not make it obvious that they where specifically protecting kidpen, so i think that's where I'm going to place my vote for now. the god king.

[+Ed Venture]

35 minutes ago, DeTess said:

Butt ad Venture has posted a bit, but he hasn't given that many clues to his alignment yet. @Butt Ad Venture, do I understand correctly from your post just now that you would support a Rathmaskal lynch?

Yeah, so...hi? Here's something for the Truthwatcher's lens people: I'm a Villager

And I just wanted to do some more thinking about a Rath lynch. He always flies under the radar, like me. So I can respect that. But he's looking good for a lynch, better than anyone else really. Anything you want to say about this @Rathmaskal? The fact that you're under suspicion for...what again? Voting on CadCom apparently. Cool.

[Rathmaskal]

First, just to make my stance clear, I would not support a lynch on Rathmaskal.

Next, I apologize for not following up on my promise to get a vote on last night.  I pretty much crashed as soon as I got home.

Regarding Kynedath's suspicion of me.  I understand it's not much, but it would seem a bit sloppy to me to poke vote someone, withdraw as soon as they post, then attack them when I could have easily just left my vote on CadCom and left the potential for a lynch to actually form.  (there was no clear lynch target at that time, so the fact that CadCom would have actually had a vote may have made him a valid target)  If you did want to throw some suspicion on me, I'd think the fact that I didn't get the vote I promised on would be a bit more damning.

That being said, I definitely don't think CadCom is cleared...but it's also quite possible CadCom is a Smedry and was protected, so I don't think he's a valid lynch target today.  *ninja...let's see what's going on*

1 minute ago, Butt Ad Venture said:

Anything you want to say about this @Rathmaskal?

Indeed I do.  (Mostly what's above)

I'll let this sit for a bit as I start actually analyzing other people.

[Kynedath]

40 minutes ago, Butt Ad Venture said:

Yeah, so...hi? Here's something for the Truthwatcher's lens people: I'm a Villager

And I just wanted to do some more thinking about a Rath lynch. He always flies under the radar, like me. So I can respect that. But he's looking good for a lynch, better than anyone else really. Anything you want to say about this @Rathmaskal? The fact that you're under suspicion for...what again? Voting on CadCom apparently. Cool.

This looks very fishy to me, very fishy indeed. You say that he is looking good for a lynch and then say you respect him staying under the radar and brush off the other reason I had for voting on him, which by the way has always been a flimsy reason, I will fully admit that. Your nonchalant attitude confuses me, I don't know how to read it.

14 minutes ago, Rathmaskal said:

First, just to make my stance clear, I would not support a lynch on Rathmaskal.

Next, I apologize for not following up on my promise to get a vote on last night.  I pretty much crashed as soon as I got home.

Regarding Kynedath's suspicion of me.  I understand it's not much, but it would seem a bit sloppy to me to poke vote someone, withdraw as soon as they post, then attack them when I could have easily just left my vote on CadCom and left the potential for a lynch to actually form.  (there was no clear lynch target at that time, so the fact that CadCom would have actually had a vote may have made him a valid target)  If you did want to throw some suspicion on me, I'd think the fact that I didn't get the vote I promised on would be a bit more damning.

That being said, I definitely don't think CadCom is cleared...but it's also quite possible CadCom is a Smedry and was protected, so I don't think he's a valid lynch target today.  *ninja...let's see what's going on*

Indeed I do.  (Mostly what's above)

I'll let this sit for a bit as I start actually analyzing other people.

I don't see not putting a vote on as alignment indicative, life happens sometimes. And honestly I didn't even notice you took your vote off of them during that cycle as well, so my suspicions of you are limited to only the fact that you were laying low which I don't find to be quite damning enough to lynch someone for. Rathmaskal

[The_God_King]

4 hours ago, DeTess said:

What topic where you hoping to start a discussion on? I assume you had something in mind?

Okay too be honest I hate when people get arbitrary killed. It’s awesome he was an evil librarian! Good work all. If possible I would’ve seen how the day developed without voting and no one would have died (especially since the game seems geared for a lot of protection the first round at least to my interpretation of the rules). Sorry I’m a bit new and it took a while for the rules to sink in fully.

I did not vote. I could have brought the vote to a tie and made it random chance but I decided if either was an elim that was a terrible thing to do. So I let Elkanah make the deciding vote. I imagine I’ll probably get lynched tonight for sticking my neck out because that’s how games like this works. 
 

I don’t have any real suspicions at the time but I believe Elkanah and  CadCom are cleared. I figure I’m number one on most peoples list for who’s a elim. 

 

 

[Zillah]

2 hours ago, Butt Ad Venture said:

Yeah, so...hi? Here's something for the Truthwatcher's lens people: I'm a Villager

As of now Butt Ad Venture is the only one to make a public roleclaim. Therefore his post would be a pretty easy choice for someone with a truthfinders lens. If they are an eliminator this would be a very risky move, and they’d have to bet their money on the holder of the truthfinders lens chosing something else. It doesn’t make sense for an eliminator to be the one to initiate this, so I’m feeling less distrust towards them as of now. 

[CadCom]

First off, I just want to point out, that I should in no way be cleared as a general concensus. Just last game, I was on an elim team that actively chose to lynch two of their own, even at a point when that would only leave one person.

That being said, I am a villager. 

Regarding my suspicions, I've been speaking extensively with a quite a few people in PMs and I am suspicious of at least one or two of them, so I'm going to avoid discussing those people for now, as well as a couple others so that if I am suspicious of any of them, I don't tip them off. 

1. @The_God_King A suspicion has been brought up against them, and frankly I slightly agree. I would agree more if TGK had played a few more games here before this one. But as it stands, SE is quite a bit different from other mafia style games, so I really want to chalk up their comments to their playstyle, which is different than what we here at SE are used to. Plus his most recent post makes me think again about it. 
2. @Zillah Their posts read pretty honest to me. The honesty makes me lean village on them, so i would have to slightly disagree with any lynch forming on them at this time. 
3. @Rathmaskal Not supporting a lynch on themself sounds very elim-ey to me. I say we lynch him.  Just kidding. Anyway, their playstyle seems more...energetic?... than normal to me. Could be NAI, or could be that I haven't played with them in a while, so It may be me remembering their playstyle more subtle than it actually is. 
4. @Devotary of Spontaneity I want to hear more from them. But I did find this. Perhaps some clarification would be nice.

5. 21 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

   Bastille can only redirect to save the Smedries, but it's still worthwhile for her to self-protect, at least for the first few cycles or until she loses her warrior lenses. 

   Actually, At first this seemed odd to me, but maybe not so much? Is Bastille not a Smedry then? I thought that their protect would redirect back to them if they were attacked. 

I'll try to get a vote down later. G2G

[DeTess]

4 minutes ago, CadCom said:

First off, I just want to point out, that I should in no way be cleared as a general concensus. Just last game, I was on an elim team that actively chose to lynch two of their own, even at a point when that would only leave one person.

And as the person that played a major role in both those busses, I'd like to point out that, as far as I can tell, the circumstances last cycle where not at all like those during D1 of the AG, so I'm relly not seeing a bus there.

4 minutes ago, CadCom said:

 

1. @The_God_King A suspicion has been brought up against them, and frankly I slightly agree. I would agree more if TGK had played a few more games here before this one. But as it stands, SE is quite a bit different from other mafia style games, so I really want to chalk up their comments to their playstyle, which is different than what we here at SE are used to. Plus his most recent post makes me think again about it. 

I'm not disagreeing on this, and I'm currently rethinking my vote on them, mostly because they're relatively new here.

That brings me back to the question of who else to vote for. i think I'd end up back with but Add venture if I where to switch. I can see Zillah's argument for why venture might be village, but I'm not convinced. The other option based on my previous list would be Rathmaskal, and I'm just not particularly suspicious of them right now.

I suppose I could also move my vote to one of the lower actives to try and get them to join in more. @Devotary of Spontaneity (the god king, devotary of spontaneity), who would you suspect most and least right now? Is there anything else you'd like to add? ( @StrikerEZ and @Feruchemical Skybreaker should feel free to answer those questions as well, btw).

[Kynedath]

35 minutes ago, Zillah said:

As of now Butt Ad Venture is the only one to make a public roleclaim. Therefore his post would be a pretty easy choice for someone with a truthfinders lens. If they are an eliminator this would be a very risky move, and they’d have to bet their money on the holder of the truthfinders lens chosing something else. It doesn’t make sense for an eliminator to be the one to initiate this, so I’m feeling less distrust towards them as of now. 

That's a good point, I hadn't thought about that. Whether or not people post "I am a villager" could be very important. Even if other people start saying it, Butt ad Venture saying it first is painting a target on their back if they're an elim. Slight trust read.

@DeTess could potentially be seen as trying to fly under the radar in a busier game with more suspicions, but I'm just as lost as they are for who to vote. Normally I'd be a lot more suspicious of poke votes after day 1, but this is getting frustrating how little I have for suspicions.

I'll come back after my next class, hopefully there will be something more to go off of there.

[Rathmaskal]

Hey folks, since it's short cycles and I'm going to be away for a while, I'll give some rather incomplete analysis for people to digest:

Elkanah - had a good PM so far (one of the people who has pointed out Kynedath's playstyle as mentioned below)  I'll definitely have more to throw out here once I get back out of meetings.

Kynedath - haven't played with Kynedath before, but most of my suspicions have been thrown back to me as non-issues/normal gameplay

The_God_King

Striker

CadCom - mostly the same analysis as everyone has already posted...but a bit more about the potential for WGG below

Skybreaker

Zillah

Kidpen

Rath - great guy

Devotary

Venture - kind of showing a few tells I've had mentioned about Rath.elim - focusing a bit on good game play rather than analysis

DeTess - always difficult to nail down, especially early.  Seems to have a good handle on the rules obviously.

Some random multi-player activity:
DeTess and Kynedath had a bit of conflict starting to brew D1...they both kind of backed off pretty hard though...  Not sure what to think of this.  If neither had backed down at all, I'd have had a much more V/V read on the situation.  This situation is almost like they didn't want to create the conflict.

I'm going to give this a different section, but the WGG play is always a bold, and often useful move to start a game.  It's become such an IKYK play at this point that it's almost back to the point where it's extremely effective.  (if no one thought of the possibility, it's extremely effective...but once everyone started thinking of it, it became much less effective to the point where people were almost to the point of thinking, "well, the WGG may draw undue attention to the player"...and now that everyone is thinking, "no one would consider doing a WGG because it would draw undue attention to the player", it's kind of just there.)  So, how could a WGG happen?  (yes, I know most of what I'm going through is fairly obvious...but I may grab something someone else missed...and it'd be nice if anyone points out anything I miss...plus it's nice to just think through these things sometimes)
    Disguiser's Lens - if CadCom had/used one of these, could have been used to be immune to the kill
        -counter?  If anyone used an oculator's lens, tracker's lens, we'd be able to tell whether this could have happened.

As far as I can tell, that's the only WGG possibility unless the elims somehow managed to determine who Bastille was protecting?

OK, how about it not being a WGG?
    Disguider's Lens is still in play
    CadCom was protected by Bastille
    CadCom is Grandpa and may live or die next cycle (not sure if we got clarification as to how that would be written up?)
    CadCom was protected by Bastille via Smedry rule

Bastille clearly can't claim at this point...and...I apparently didn't finish this thought before moving back to something else...but yeah, Bastille, definitely don't claim.

[DeTess]

1 hour ago, Rathmaskal said:

Some random multi-player activity:
DeTess and Kynedath had a bit of conflict starting to brew D1...they both kind of backed off pretty hard though...  Not sure what to think of this.  If neither had backed down at all, I'd have had a much more V/V read on the situation.  This situation is almost like they didn't want to create the conflict.

The reason I backed down there was that I'd started it the 'wrong' way. A discussion between two players with mutual suspicions can be very useful, especially for everyone else, however the way I'd started it and the slightly annoyed mindset that had caused it meant it was more likely to be an actual conflict instead of a discussion, so I backed off hard to diffuse that. I might resume an actual discussion of the sort next cycle or the one afterwards if I still don't have a read on kynedath, but I'll do it cool-headed as part of a discussion, not hot-headed and unreasonably annoyed for no good reason.

Edited January 29, 2020 by DeTess

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

1 hour ago, CadCom said:

Actually, At first this seemed odd to me, but maybe not so much? Is Bastille not a Smedry then? I thought that their protect would redirect back to them if they were attacked. 

Bastille shouldn't be a Smedry, so the protection wouldn't redirect to her.

1 hour ago, DeTess said:

I suppose I could also move my vote to one of the lower actives to try and get them to join in more. @Devotary of Spontaneity  who would you suspect most and least right now? 

There would be no reason for CadCom to introduce an elim teammate to the lynch so late in the cycle, so he's cleared. I've seen Elkanah break a tie D1 to lynch an elim teammate. Doing so this game would require either Venture and Striker to be evil and for Elkanah to decide a guaranteed death was better than a 2/3 chance of losing a teammate, so it's not likely. Venture's claim of being a villager could be analysed by a Truthfinder, but it's entirely possible that "He always flies under the radar, like me." or "But he's looking good for a lynch, better than anyone else really. " could show up as lies regardless of alignment. CadCom is blatantly lying in the post where he made his alignment claim, so there would be no point checking that, but I don't see a reason to do so anyway.

The Truthfinder's lens should be useful on people who offered opinions on Kidpen. The_God_King's post here seems like it would be true for a villager and a definite lie for an elim.

Elkanah hoping Kidpen wasn't a Smedry or Bastille could possibly be investigated, but could be contaminated by his claim that we won't have any evidence until we lynch someone. Other than those I don't have too much. Nobody else tried to save Kidpen, especially in the time in between CadCom and Elkanah's votes. Being overly enthusiastic about someone surviving a kill is always off, but that's not enough to say Kynedath is evil.

[Kynedath]

24 minutes ago, Rathmaskal said:

Some random multi-player activity:
DeTess and Kynedath had a bit of conflict starting to brew D1...they both kind of backed off pretty hard though...  Not sure what to think of this.  If neither had backed down at all, I'd have had a much more V/V read on the situation.  This situation is almost like they didn't want to create the conflict.

I don't like to create conflict. I like to believe that I'm pretty peaceful as a rule, and I tend to back down from conflict because it isn't useful except for catharsis sometimes. And honest to goodness I didn't even notice that the first post of DeTess' that I scrutinized was theirs, I was just trying to comment on the level of chaos in the game and theirs happened to be before mine. I wasn't ever trying to start anything so when I got a whiff of a conflict starting to happen I backed off because I really don't like fighting. And like DeTess said, it's not useful when it's heated and fuelled mainly by emotions.

5 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Being overly enthusiastic about someone surviving a kill is always off, but that's not enough to say Kynedath is evil.

I don't think I was overly enthusiastic . . . was I? I mean yeah, I was enthusiastic, I don't like people dying on day 1 despite the information it gives, so when someone survived a kill I was happy! It gives us information and CadCom got to keep playing.

[Feruchemical Skybreaker]

So these are the people I trust and am not sure about. So far I don't see any sufficient evidence that leads me to distrust anyone. If anyone has reason to not trust someone please tell me through this thread or a PM.

I Trust: The_God_King, Elkanah

Not Sure: Everyone else.

[Kynedath]

6 minutes ago, Feruchemical Skybreaker said:

So these are the people I trust and am not sure about. So far I don't see any sufficient evidence that leads me to distrust anyone. If anyone has reason to not trust someone please tell me through this thread or a PM.

I Trust: The_God_King, Elkanah

Not Sure: Everyone else.

Could you potentially expand upon why you trust those two?

[DeTess]

Okay, last post of the cycle for me. 

@Feruchemical Skybreaker, why do you trust the_god_king? And if you absolutely had to lynch someone this cycle, who would it be? I realize that that second one is a pretty difficult question right now, but without some discussion like that it's hard to analyze the result of lynches and kills.

Anyway, Devotary has answered the questions I threw at them, so they're off the hook for now. I'm going to vote butt ad venture. I've got a bunch of bad lynch targets, but the way he approached and seemed to support the rathmaskal lynch look really off to me (to summarize, he stated that Rath looked good for a lynch, but then needed to look up the actual reason). It feels like he's looking for a person to lynch, rather than a suspicion to pursue, which looks elimmy to me. In addition, several people have shared their opinions on him, so either way there'll be at least some info coming from the lynch.

[Feruchemical Skybreaker]

19 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

Could you potentially expand upon why you trust those two?

The_God_King- Mainly because he/she is new to this (like me) and it seems like he has been honest with me in out PM.

Elkanah- Because he has answered a lot of my questions about the game and if he were a eliminator it would have been beneficial for him to not reach out to help me.

@DeTess Probably Rathmaskal.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Feruchemical Skybreaker

[StrikerEZ]

3 minutes ago, Feruchemical Skybreaker said:

Elkanah- Because he has answered a lot of my questions about the game and if he were a eliminator it would have been beneficial for him to not reach out to help me.

I would just like to say that in the last game I was an elim, this is exactly what I did. I PM’d every player in the game and coordinated actions and found out who did what. 

Also...I really wish I’d been keeping up with this sooner. I’m so far behind that I honestly don’t know what’s going on. Plus I still haven’t PM’d everyone yet (thank you to those who already PM’d me ). 

I do agree that it is kind weird that Venture seemed to be voting on Rath even though he didn’t really know why he was doing it. I don’t have much of a read on anyone else yet.

As for the possibility of a WGG: my stance is and always has been to consider it as a possibility, but don’t tunnel on that if there’s significant evidence pointing to otherwise.

[CadCom]

1 hour ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

CadCom is blatantly lying in the post where he made his alignment claim, so there would be no point checking that, but I don't see a reason to do so anyway.

Wow! I blatantly lied and didnt even realize it. Could you please clarify what portion, either here in the thread, or also in a PM would he wonderful. 

 

On another note, if you are the one who protected me, please reach out in PM to me. I have a lead I want to pursue, and I may need your help. 

[+Ed Venture]

Vote tally.   
Venture (2): Tess, Striker   
Rath (1): FeruBreaker

So. I’m on the chopping block. Again. I’m quite controversial aren’t I?

As for my opinion on Rath earlier? I had little other suspicion. And so I thought it one of the best lynches that were being proposed. That’s all. I’d like to stay alive honestly.

I have the opinion that God King should survive, not for being innocent, but because they deserve another round of life. Actually? I hope you’re having a good game so far @The_God_King!

So...I’ll find someone to kill...Elkanah. You’re on my list, sitting just under God King. So...sorry?

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

33 minutes ago, CadCom said:

Wow! I blatantly lied and didnt even realize it. Could you please clarify what portion, either here in the thread, or also in a PM would he wonderful. 

 

Quote

Not supporting a lynch on themself sounds very elim-ey to me. I say we lynch him.  Just kidding. 

I, and likely Elandera, would consider this to be a lie, as you're making a claim that you know is not true.

[CadCom]

Ok. That's what I thought you might be referring to, but I wasnt sure if jokes would count as lies.

Hmmm. I'm opposed to both the elkanah and venture lynch, which leaves Rath. (Of the current players with votes), and I've already expressed I feel I havent seen anything too alignment indicative with him yet. 

Hmm. My gut doesnt feel great about kynedath's posts, though I have no logical claim to back that up. 

[Elkanah]

34 minutes ago, Butt Ad Venture said:

So...I’ll find someone to kill...Elkanah. You’re on my list, sitting just under God King. So...sorry?

That's fair. I'd ask for more reasoning, but I realize we are all grasping at straws. I have a bad gut read on both DeTess and Striker, but I have no evidence for either of them. It's not even anything they've posted. My PM's make me think they are not, and that worries me.

You can go ahead and lynch me, but I don't think you'll get any additional information out of it. I will vote... maybe for Striker. But I'm going to wait a little longer.

Paul is dead.

Ninja'd by CadCom. I could maybe see a Kynedath lynch. I'll be back to follow this up though.

[+Ed Venture]

6 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

That's fair. I'd ask for more reasoning, but I realize we are all grasping at straws.

...y’know? If we’re all a bit lost for the lynch...God King is a choice most can agree on....

[The_God_King]

20 minutes ago, Butt Ad Venture said:

...y’know? If we’re all a bit lost for the lynch...God King is a choice most can agree on....

Y’know I figure I’d finally vote. Trying to stay reasonable doesn’t seem to work. Butt Ad Venture