How would you deal with the Fused

[Config2]

9 hours ago, Patrick Star said:

I've answered this question before, but seeing as the format changed and there are new cards, a new banlist, and a completely new mechanic in Link Monsters, I figure that I should update it.

I think that the first priority for any player has to be negating Odium's Field Spell, Everstorm.  That card is insanely busted and allows him to infinitely recover his destroyed Fused monsters while providing investiture for effects.

Set Rotation is a hard counter that will completely prevent him from activating a field spell, but since it's limited to 1 and not searchable, it's not reliable.  Same goes for Imperial Order.  I think that both triple Ghost Ogre & Snow Rabbit and Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring are necessary to either negate or destroy Everstorm, especially if Odium moves first.

If you can't stop him from spamming the field, Nibiru, the Primal Being can wipe his board in an instant.  And since it doesn't destroy, Odium won't be able to recover those fused.  Evenly Matched can also do this, but is much riskier.

Ultimately though, I think that the best way to beat Odium is to abuse the mirror match.  Ghost Reaper & Winter Cherries can snipe crucial play extenders from his extra deck, and Super Polymerization is spell speed 4 mass removal that can give you a beatstick.  I think that an anti-meta control deck focused around a Sky Striker or Thunder Dragon engine would provide enough firepower and resource recursion to simply grind him out.

I chuckled. 

 

I don't think the Everstorm will stop, but may stop providing Void-Light if Odium left Roshar. If he is splintered, then he will leave a shadow like the Stormfather behind, providing voidlight. 

The concept of imprisonment will not work either, much as I chuckled at the SCP reference. There are just too many fused. Plus we haven't seen anything that says they cannot voluntarily leave their hosts. In fact, at the end of the Battle of Thelyen Field, the void-spren bonded to the humans abandon them (these aren't real fused at the very least, but the same concept might apply).

That leaves three options; depriving the fused of Voidlight, which would make them dangerous, but combat-able; depriving the fused of hosts, which makes them impotent on the physical realm at least; or convincing them to move to the beyond voluntarily. The insane ones wont go for sure, but the sane ones, who are much more dangerous, could be convinced. The only people who could do this, however, are the singers, so it'd be functionally the same as depriving them of hosts. 

We have next to no information about void light, other than the fact that it is supplied by either Odium or Ba-Ado-Mishram, so I tend to find that options one and three are both possible.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

47 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

True not every fabrial soulcaster can soulcast metal, and some are even set to certain metals (like bronze in Azir). I was just commenting on the potential to soulcast aluminum. Yes I believe radiant soulcasting would be capable of making aluminum. It is a base metal, not an alloy, so the soulcaster would just need to be familiar with aluminum for the metal to default to base aluminum. For alloys or certain percentages to be burned by a mistborn, the soulcaster has to intend it (WoB). 

As for actually doing it, stone has been soulcasted from air plenty of times. I see no reason why an aluminum block to encase an enemy could not be soulcasted from the very air around the enemy. But as I mentioned in my post, there is conflicting information, so if you think Shallan and Jasnah would not be able to gain the knowledge to do so, then to each their own. I think they could. 

As to trapping them without a gemheart in a block of aluminum, unless they could some how exert enough force to punch a hole through, I do not see how the body, or the fused would escape. The fused are investiture. That is why the cube would be solid all the way around. Not bars. So they would remain trapped. 

Here is the problem I failed to make clear , let’s say we go that route , and they make 4,000 blocks of Fused what would you do with them ? Let’s say you build a castle . 1000 years later , a army of nihilist parshmen or some cult comes along and decides to break them open. There Cognitive shadows would be free once again . Don’t get me wrong I like the idea . Anything creative I like . I just see the flaw . It comes from watching too many Dracula movies . Dracula is laying there with a stake thru his heart , along comes this idiot that wants to see the Dark Lord rise and removes the stake . Almost every time he is the first to die as Dracula needs blood to fully revive .  See what I mean now . The Fused can’t break out but somebody else can .

[goody153]

Throw Nightblood at them till they run out.

[Gilphon]

I mean, Aluminum may resist investiture, but it's not a particularly durable metal. There are gonna be ways to force your way out. So I'm rather skeptical of the Aluminum cell idea working. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Gilphon

[Karger]

47 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

I mean, Aluminum may resist investiture, but it's not a particularly durable metal. There are gonna be ways to force your way out. So I'm rather skeptical of the Aluminum cell idea working. 

Even if aluminum can trap all of the CS in there they can probably get out by for example just causing heat until the the aluminum melts.  They don't have to heat the metal directly.  They can heat the air inside the box.

8 hours ago, goody153 said:

Throw Nightblood at them till they run out.

They will eventually find an aluminum sheath and some specially trained fused will get Nightblood.

[goody153]

4 hours ago, Karger said:

They will eventually find an aluminum sheath and some specially trained fused will get Nightblood.

*coughs* my answer wasn't serious *coughs*

On a more serious note. It will be a permanent solution with Odium and the fused but we won't have a clue as of now considering oathpact isn't a thing that stops the fused anymore (just Odium it seems).

Edited October 24, 2019 by goody153

[Negative_Null]

I bet there'd be a way to make some sort of Cognitive "suit of armor around the world", to borrow a Marvel turn of phrase. Not saying it'd be feasible, workable, or the solution that ends up working, but I rather like it. A kind of cruelty-free Oathpact

That does bring me to a question, which is how on Braize did the Oathpact turn into millenia-long torture? Surely someone saw that loophole

[+Bzhydack]

We have in Urithiru one large piece of aluminum. And its really easy to see its antimagical propreties.

Yep, Nightblood sheeth.

Szeth also saw it in action, Fused once blocked Nightblood with it.

So all we need is to Shallan meet Szeth (what can happen really easly, because he is bodyguard of Dalinar and she will be Dalinars dauther-in-law), look at Nightblood and connect this metal with plates she once seen in Kholinar. If she connects it also to her necless (and she probably do, she cannot forget this little jewellry), and voila, we have Radiant soulcaster with knowledghe about aluminum.

And aluminum can be really important in this war.

[+Bzhydack]

On 23.10.2019 at 5:15 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Here is the problem I failed to make clear , let’s say we go that route , and they make 4,000 blocks of Fused what would you do with them ? Let’s say you build a castle . 1000 years later , a army of nihilist parshmen or some cult comes along and decides to break them open. There Cognitive shadows would be free once again . Don’t get me wrong I like the idea . Anything creative I like . I just see the flaw . It comes from watching too many Dracula movies . Dracula is laying there with a stake thru his heart , along comes this idiot that wants to see the Dark Lord rise and removes the stake . Almost every time he is the first to die as Dracula needs blood to fully revive .  See what I mean now . The Fused can’t break out but somebody else can .

We can capture as many Fused as we can, bring them all to one point and kill all of them one by one with Nightblood. All we need is some very strong mentaly executioner.

[Negative_Null]

That would technically work, but still is both unwieldy and unlikely. Not that I have any better ideas. It's just that Jasnah is the only Soulcaster the radiants have currently that could do that even once and she isn't going to be able to take out a whole army

[Tadas]

19 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

We can capture as many Fused as we can, bring them all to one point and kill all of them one by one with Nightblood. All we need is some very strong mentaly executioner.

I mean Fused were made at some point, I assume by Odin, I doubt there is a reason why more couldn't be made out of this generation of Parshendi, they wouldn't have same experience, but also wouldn't be insane. I think the way to beat them is to treat everyone on Roshar better - a huge one would be to abolish slavery and maybe current class structure, giving same rights to Parshendi as humans. Theme slavery is bad is very apparent and might makes right is bad becoming more and more apparent. 

I think ultimately Fused will  be defeated by listeners using some song that stops everstorm, lets fused to finally rest, while humans defend them while they are singing.

[Negative_Null]

On 7/7/2020 at 0:50 AM, Tadas said:

I think ultimately Fused will  be defeated by listeners using some song that stops everstorm, lets fused to finally rest, while humans defend them while they are singing.

I kind of doubt that. The Everstorm had a huge cost (narratively, although who knows how it worked with Investiture), so there will need to be quite a cost to stop it. I don't think that just uniting the Singers with the humans will work

[Tadas]

I am sure you are right, it won't be enough just that, but thematically the most import part. Probably. We still don't know how did Parshendi free themselves from old gods in first place, what caused their slave forms, maybe a sacrifice from the Heralds will be required, it would have some nice symmetry (though hopefully oathpact will be replaced by more permanent and less horrid solution). Maybe the the Sibling that has been hurt by humans is part of it.

[thejopen27]

Send them to nanny large families of Austrian children?

[first void]

step one: make shotgun shells into type 4 biochromatic entities

step two: give order: obey me.

step three: shoot fused

step four: repeat steps 1-3 until all dead or you reach doom slayer levels of awesome. Or Hoid happens.